Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[SoupCanMafia]

Pretty much exactly what I meant when I made that comment. Sakurai likes out their surprises and retro references and Athena would be both of those.

Possible big news guys! Turns out that leak COULD, i repeat COULD, have been a mix up of information for another page. As it turns out the fourth DLC character for SNK Heroines is due out soon and it's possible that the trademark was supposed to go to the page for that fourth DLC character page and not the fourth DLC character page for Smash.

Again, there is no real certainty to this claim, just suspicion brought on by the amazing coincidence of both fighting games having their fourth DLC character released around the same time. SO it could be a coincidence and both are happening, or it could be a mistake made because of how similar both situations are.

To add onto this, apparently, SNK Heroines 4 is only in v.1.4.0, while Ultimate with the Hero Update is in v.4.0.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

It took me a while, longer than for any other moveset I've made, but I finished my moveset for Shantae. Finding footage for some of her moves in the GBC game took ages.

Spoiler: Shantae Moveset

Shantae Moveset

Concept:
Shantae will have a fairly standard moveset as far as her normals and most of her specials go, but one that feels like Shantae plays in her games- several of her moves will be a basic hair whip, allowing her to use it with as much versatility as she does in-game. However, to contrast this more basic moveset, one of her special moves will allow her to transform, completely changing her entire kit temporarily to one of many forms with unique tools.

Stats:
Her walking and max air speed are exactly the same, with a very fast acceleration to get to it, despite it being rather low. Her initial dash is fairly long, but this is contrasted by having a fantastic dash speed, similar to Captain Falcon. Her weight is halfway between Zelda and Peach, and she only has 1 double jump. She can crawl, albeit rather slowly.

Normals:
Note- Her hair is not part of her hurtbox, making hair-attacks disjointed.

Jab/F-Tilt/D-Tilt/N-Air/F-Air- A basic hair whip attack that can be used while moving and jumping, and even while moving forward in the air. The move itself combos into itself relatively well for a few hits, and does decent damage. Somewhat of a combination of Isabelle and Megaman's Jab. Because of the disjoint on her hair and how quickly and easily she can use it, this is a VERY strong move that she's going to use a whole lot.

U-Tilt- A quick horizontal sweep above her with her hair.
Dash Attack- Shantae rushes forward with a Scimitar, similar to the move in Pirate's Curse.

D-Air- Shantae holds a Scimitar below her to pogo off enemies, functions like Y.Link's D-Air.
B-Air- Shantae hits behind her with a strong elbow thrust, based on the Cuffs attack in GBC.
U-Air- Shantae spins in a circle, whipping above with her hair, based on the Tiara attack in GBC.

F-Smash- Power Kick from Pirate's Curse, a strong kick forward with a relatively long start-up, but a strong move with decent range. Similar start-up to Wolf's F-Smash.
D-Smash- Shantae summons two storm puffs, one on each side of her, that hit enemies multiple times before a final lightning strike as the two clouds disappear. Hitbox covers both sides of her, but doesn't cover her body at all.
U-Smash- Shantae holds her lamp above her head, and then releases a cloud of light magic that sucks in opponents before shooting them upward.

Grab- Her hair is never shown to be prehensile, so she grabs with her hands. This results in pretty piss-poor grab range, and an all-around bad grab in general.

Specials:
Up Special- Uppercut and Drill Kick
A two-part attack, starting with a rising kick with decent kill power. If you press B again, it transitions into a downward drill kick multi-hit with a decently strong spike. The two parts don't combo into each other, each being a good option for finishing off stocks. The drill kick stops after a moment, unlike other similar moves. (i.e. Cloud's Up B) Fantastic vertical recovery, even better when combined with Harpy form.

Side Special- Flamethrower
Shantae instantly stops all her momentum when this move starts, and then shoots a flamethrower in front of her, can be angled slightly up or down. The flame's range diminishes if used for too long. Functions similarly to Bowser's Neutral B, but it travels straight. Can be used for very safe edgeguarding when combined with her great recovery.

Down Special- Pike Ball
Shantae summons a Pike Ball that circles around her, ignoring terrain. While the Pike Ball is out, she can't dash or double jump. Shielding, dodging, using any special move or grabbing will make the pike ball disappear until she summons it again, and the opponent can get rid of it by hitting or grabbing Shantae. This move puts a lot of limitations on Shantae, since surrounding yourself with a hitbox while letting you continue moving is inherently very powerful.

Neutral Special- Genie Dance
Shantae starts dancing when the move is used, pulling up four options for transformations, similar to the menu in 1/2 Genie Hero, or Shulk's Neutral B. Each of the four options will make Shantae transform into the form she selected. The dance can be cancelled by jumping, shielding, or tapping B.

-While transformed, Shantae has access to a smaller but completely unique limited moveset. Each form has a jab/tilt, an aerial move, and a smash attack. The same one will be used regardless of the direction pressed. Pressing the B button will cancel the transformation and turn her back to normal. Pressing up B will cancel into Shantae's Up B, but any other direction will cause a short animation of her poofing back to normal. Finally, none of the transformations can dash, shield, dodge, or grab.

Up Dance- Harpy
Harpy Shantae has 5 double jumps, the same as Kirby. Her movement stats are the same as Shantae, but she has very low traction and low air acceleration. Her tilt is an upward slash with her talons/foot, a good disjoint with decent damage and knockback, but relatively slow for a tilt. Her aerial attack is a divebomb, travelling down and slightly forward. She stops travelling downward if she hits an enemy, and it spikes. Her smash attack sends a feather projectile forward. It's pretty weak for a smash attack, but is a great projectile.

Back Dance- Elephant
Elephant Shantae is very slow and very heavy. Her weight is slightly above Bowser in this form, but her ground speed is slower than Incineroar, as well as falling almost as fast as Fox. Her tilt is a poke forward with her trunk, comparable to Ganon's Jab. Her smash attack charges forward, stopping if she hits an enemy, with fantastic kill power. Her aerial move is Elephant Stomp, which has a strong hitbox below her and creates a shockwave on landing.

Forward Dance- Monkey
Monkey Shantae is tiny and FAST. She doesn't hit very hard in this form, but if you transform quickly enough, she can use her monkey form to follow-up an attack she otherwise couldn't, or get really cheesy kills at the side of the screen. Her weight in this form is around that of Squirtle or Jigglypuff. Her tilt and aerial move are both simple claw strikes, the grounded version hitting twice. Her smash attack is Monkey Bullet, which can allow her to fly offstage and keep her double jump. Monkey Shantae can also wall-cling and walljump.

Down Dance- Spider
Spider Shantae's stats are mostly unchanged from base Shantae, aside from a minor increase in weight. Her tilt and aerial are both the same move, she spits poison forward that falls as it travels. Her smash attack is a dual claw strike forward with two legs. All of her moves in spider form poison the opponent if they hit, dealing damage over time.

Spoiler: Side note about the moveset

I tried my best to represent her as well as I could, but there are a few things I'm not totally satisfied with. Her side special and down special had to be based on her fire spells and pike balls, but because of how strong the rest of her moveset was, I settled for less accurate representation in order to make her more balanced. A character who can approach with a quick disjointed move is already pretty busted, since her hair whip is her fair and nair. Adding a good projectile on top of that would be insanely broken. Her only real projectile is in Spider form, which isn't useful for approaching or aggression due to being in one of her alternate forms.

Also I spent a good few hours trying to fill in an empty Up Smash and Back Air moveslot, and I'm still not entirely satisfied with what they ended up as.

Also: I didn't do a final smash/taunts/alt colors/etc because I don't care as much about them for speculative movesets like this. Her taunts and alt colors are pretty obvious anyway, I figure.

I know everyone's busy screaming about the SNK leak thing and Seven Sirens, but if anyone wants to give me feedback on this moveset I'd love to hear it!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...smash_bros_ultimate_might_be_representing_snk
>There's also a theory that this could easily be one big mix-up on Nintendo's end. According to a post over on Reddit (thanks, Tulio517), the 4th DLC character in SNK Heroines has "the same trademark and file size" as the one listed for Smash Bros. Ultimate (4.19 MB).
Well, now I'm confused. How on Earth would intern-kun mix up two completely different games that aren't remotely similar?

Edit: ed.

Still worried about no Direct on my vacation tho.

Spoiler

 

[GoldLiger]

Well something to note is that Shantae and The Seven Sirens still has yet a release date. I wonder why? By the demo it looks great, moves great and has great audio track. But then why not just announce a release date? I wonder if the release date has been pushed back to release in February of next year to go along with her Smash DLC.

But that is just my speculation.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Well something to note is that Shantae and The Seven Sirens still has yet a release date. I wonder why? By the demo it looks great, moves great and has great audio track. But then why not just announce a release date? I wonder if the release date has been pushed back to release in February of next year to go along with her Smash DLC.

But that is just my speculation.

Nah, I think it's just to clean up on the animation, coding, and voice acting portions. Maybe also a delay to get the cutscenes proper animations if not that.

 

[Dukefire]

So, is the SNK leak something to keep hold of or no?

 

[LaBeteNoire]

So, is the SNK leak something to keep hold of or no?

Could go either way right now. It could be a mistake as a similar DLC page was being updated at the same time (i.e. they were updating the SNK heroines DLC before updating the Smash DLC page and accidentally copied the info) or it cold be what the Smash DLC page is supposed to say and it's just a coincidence that a SNK game was getting a DLC page updated at the same time.

One thing of note is that the download size on each is listed the same, which makes you think it would be an accidental copy and past... However lots of other DLC pages list the exact same file size without have the SNK copywrite, suggesting that that number may be a place filler used for all DLC...

Long and short is there is really no way to know if it was a real coincidence or a weird mistake.

 

[zferolie]

Could go either way right now. It could be a mistake as a similar DLC page was being updated at the same time (i.e. they were updating the SNK heroines DLC before updating the Smash DLC page and accidentally copied the info) or it cold be what the Smash DLC page is supposed to say and it's just a coincidence that a SNK game was getting a DLC page updated at the same time.

One thing of note is that the download size on each is listed the same, which makes you think it would be an accidental copy and past... However lots of other DLC pages list the exact same file size without have the SNK copywrite, suggesting that that number may be a place filler used for all DLC...

Long and short is there is really no way to know if it was a real coincidence or a weird mistake.

There are other reasons this looks good. Sabi posted a bird, the Milk leak was saying a girl with a flying weapon, and japan is currently having a leak wear its a female shrine maiden

 

[EarlTamm]

So, is the SNK leak something to keep hold of or no?

Yes, as apparently Nintendo has taken down what caused this leak in the first place, firing a major red flag.

 

[meleebrawler]

It took me a while, longer than for any other moveset I've made, but I finished my moveset for Shantae. Finding footage for some of her moves in the GBC game took ages.

Spoiler: Shantae Moveset

Shantae Moveset

Concept:
Shantae will have a fairly standard moveset as far as her normals and most of her specials go, but one that feels like Shantae plays in her games- several of her moves will be a basic hair whip, allowing her to use it with as much versatility as she does in-game. However, to contrast this more basic moveset, one of her special moves will allow her to transform, completely changing her entire kit temporarily to one of many forms with unique tools.

Stats:
Her walking and max air speed are exactly the same, with a very fast acceleration to get to it, despite it being rather low. Her initial dash is fairly long, but this is contrasted by having a fantastic dash speed, similar to Captain Falcon. Her weight is halfway between Zelda and Peach, and she only has 1 double jump. She can crawl, albeit rather slowly.

Normals:
Note- Her hair is not part of her hurtbox, making hair-attacks disjointed.

Jab/F-Tilt/D-Tilt/N-Air/F-Air- A basic hair whip attack that can be used while moving and jumping, and even while moving forward in the air. The move itself combos into itself relatively well for a few hits, and does decent damage. Somewhat of a combination of Isabelle and Megaman's Jab. Because of the disjoint on her hair and how quickly and easily she can use it, this is a VERY strong move that she's going to use a whole lot.

U-Tilt- A quick horizontal sweep above her with her hair.
Dash Attack- Shantae rushes forward with a Scimitar, similar to the move in Pirate's Curse.

D-Air- Shantae holds a Scimitar below her to pogo off enemies, functions like Y.Link's D-Air.
B-Air- Shantae hits behind her with a strong elbow thrust, based on the Cuffs attack in GBC.
U-Air- Shantae spins in a circle, whipping above with her hair, based on the Tiara attack in GBC.

F-Smash- Power Kick from Pirate's Curse, a strong kick forward with a relatively long start-up, but a strong move with decent range. Similar start-up to Wolf's F-Smash.
D-Smash- Shantae summons two storm puffs, one on each side of her, that hit enemies multiple times before a final lightning strike as the two clouds disappear. Hitbox covers both sides of her, but doesn't cover her body at all.
U-Smash- Shantae holds her lamp above her head, and then releases a cloud of light magic that sucks in opponents before shooting them upward.

Grab- Her hair is never shown to be prehensile, so she grabs with her hands. This results in pretty piss-poor grab range, and an all-around bad grab in general.

Specials:
Up Special- Uppercut and Drill Kick
A two-part attack, starting with a rising kick with decent kill power. If you press B again, it transitions into a downward drill kick multi-hit with a decently strong spike. The two parts don't combo into each other, each being a good option for finishing off stocks. The drill kick stops after a moment, unlike other similar moves. (i.e. Cloud's Up B) Fantastic vertical recovery, even better when combined with Harpy form.

Side Special- Flamethrower
Shantae instantly stops all her momentum when this move starts, and then shoots a flamethrower in front of her, can be angled slightly up or down. The flame's range diminishes if used for too long. Functions similarly to Bowser's Neutral B, but it travels straight. Can be used for very safe edgeguarding when combined with her great recovery.

Down Special- Pike Ball
Shantae summons a Pike Ball that circles around her, ignoring terrain. While the Pike Ball is out, she can't dash or double jump. Shielding, dodging, using any special move or grabbing will make the pike ball disappear until she summons it again, and the opponent can get rid of it by hitting or grabbing Shantae. This move puts a lot of limitations on Shantae, since surrounding yourself with a hitbox while letting you continue moving is inherently very powerful.

Neutral Special- Genie Dance
Shantae starts dancing when the move is used, pulling up four options for transformations, similar to the menu in 1/2 Genie Hero, or Shulk's Neutral B. Each of the four options will make Shantae transform into the form she selected. The dance can be cancelled by jumping, shielding, or tapping B.

-While transformed, Shantae has access to a smaller but completely unique limited moveset. Each form has a jab/tilt, an aerial move, and a smash attack. The same one will be used regardless of the direction pressed. Pressing the B button will cancel the transformation and turn her back to normal. Pressing up B will cancel into Shantae's Up B, but any other direction will cause a short animation of her poofing back to normal. Finally, none of the transformations can dash, shield, dodge, or grab.

Up Dance- Harpy
Harpy Shantae has 5 double jumps, the same as Kirby. Her movement stats are the same as Shantae, but she has very low traction and low air acceleration. Her tilt is an upward slash with her talons/foot, a good disjoint with decent damage and knockback, but relatively slow for a tilt. Her aerial attack is a divebomb, travelling down and slightly forward. She stops travelling downward if she hits an enemy, and it spikes. Her smash attack sends a feather projectile forward. It's pretty weak for a smash attack, but is a great projectile.

Back Dance- Elephant
Elephant Shantae is very slow and very heavy. Her weight is slightly above Bowser in this form, but her ground speed is slower than Incineroar, as well as falling almost as fast as Fox. Her tilt is a poke forward with her trunk, comparable to Ganon's Jab. Her smash attack charges forward, stopping if she hits an enemy, with fantastic kill power. Her aerial move is Elephant Stomp, which has a strong hitbox below her and creates a shockwave on landing.

Forward Dance- Monkey
Monkey Shantae is tiny and FAST. She doesn't hit very hard in this form, but if you transform quickly enough, she can use her monkey form to follow-up an attack she otherwise couldn't, or get really cheesy kills at the side of the screen. Her weight in this form is around that of Squirtle or Jigglypuff. Her tilt and aerial move are both simple claw strikes, the grounded version hitting twice. Her smash attack is Monkey Bullet, which can allow her to fly offstage and keep her double jump. Monkey Shantae can also wall-cling and walljump.

Down Dance- Spider
Spider Shantae's stats are mostly unchanged from base Shantae, aside from a minor increase in weight. Her tilt and aerial are both the same move, she spits poison forward that falls as it travels. Her smash attack is a dual claw strike forward with two legs. All of her moves in spider form poison the opponent if they hit, dealing damage over time.

Spoiler: Side note about the moveset

I tried my best to represent her as well as I could, but there are a few things I'm not totally satisfied with. Her side special and down special had to be based on her fire spells and pike balls, but because of how strong the rest of her moveset was, I settled for less accurate representation in order to make her more balanced. A character who can approach with a quick disjointed move is already pretty busted, since her hair whip is her fair and nair. Adding a good projectile on top of that would be insanely broken. Her only real projectile is in Spider form, which isn't useful for approaching or aggression due to being in one of her alternate forms.

Also I spent a good few hours trying to fill in an empty Up Smash and Back Air moveslot, and I'm still not entirely satisfied with what they ended up as.

Also: I didn't do a final smash/taunts/alt colors/etc because I don't care as much about them for speculative movesets like this. Her taunts and alt colors are pretty obvious anyway, I figure.

I know everyone's busy screaming about the SNK leak thing and Seven Sirens, but if anyone wants to give me feedback on this moveset I'd love to hear it!

Why the heck can Shantae dash as fast as Falcon? Are you saying Monkey is as fast as Sonic then? Don't be ridiculous, human form is the all-rounder that can handle most situations and it's stats should be close to average in everything to reflect this.

There is no reason for ftilt to be a hair whip when her jab is. Unlike Megaman, Shantae can't move forward while whipping, so there's no practical benefit. Just make Power Kick the ftilt instead, and relegate the elbow dash to an fsmash. A backwards kick is more practical as a back air anyway. Similarly there's no need for nair to be another hair whip when fair is sufficient. Even the Belmonts understand this with their whip spin.

I'd rather Risky's Cannon be the up special, that frees up the uppercut kick as a normal. Your Pike Ball is too limited to be useful and is almost a straight downgrade from Leaf Shield, as this implementation of transformations is one towards Pokemon Trainer's switching. I'd just put Pike Balls as a down smash, with higher charges resulting in more of them. Fire spells can be split into three charge levels like Hero's Frizz line. Storm Puff being a slow-moving thunder trap side special.

A far more elegant way to include transformations is to have them replace certain moves and actions while active, retaining the human moves they don't replace.

- Monkey replaces her dash and dash attack to move faster, possibly also giving increased jump height and air speed if done from a dash.
- Elephant replaces her smashes with powerful armoured variants, as well as her dash attack and down air.
- Harpy allows Shantae to jump multiple times, and replaces her up special with the ability to fly freely for a time with different, enhanced aerials. Like most such moves, loses power if used repeatedly.
- Spider replaces her grab with a web tether, and gives her a powerful suite of throws for killing, comboing and raising damage via poison. Also grants a zair.

In consideration to Kirby, I'd make the dances her down special with Fire being neutral. Also helps that Seven Sirens has made instant transformations canon now.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Yes, as apparently Nintendo has taken down what caused this leak in the first place, firing a major red flag.

That doesn't exactly prove anything because if it were a mistake copy and paste of another page they would still have taken it down right away to stop the spread of false information. So for that instance it could still point to either eventuality.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

Nintendo Goofed.

the 4th character is from an SNK Property.

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/DLC/Challenger-Pack-4-1519368.html

And it got taken down. How totally not suspicious lol

So its either samurai show down, metal slug, or king of fighters. King of fighters seems like the most likely rep, as it is on of the big classic fightong games and what snk is k own for.

I am hoping its Mai, and that keeps with that one milky leak about a female fighter with a projectile, but could she be too sexy for smash?

There was another rumor similar to this way back but only mentioned the female fighter had a ponytail. Much as I wish that meant Shantae (and how dare it not), if that's connected to this one mentioning projectiles, could very well be Mai.

 

[meleebrawler]

There are other reasons this looks good. Sabi posted a bird, the Milk leak was saying a girl with a flying weapon, and japan is currently having a leak wear its a female shrine maiden

Well, I can spin it as the bird being Sky and Wrench bringing Shantae into the fight, the flying weapon being a Pike Ball and shrine maiden being code for guardian genie.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Why the heck can Shantae dash as fast as Falcon? Are you saying Monkey is as fast as Sonic then? Don't be ridiculous, human form is the all-rounder that can handle most situations and it's stats should be close to average in everything to reflect this.

There is no reason for ftilt to be a hair whip when her jab is. Unlike Megaman, Shantae can't move forward while whipping, so there's no practical benefit. Just make Power Kick the ftilt instead, and relegate the elbow dash to an fsmash. A backwards kick is more practical as a back air anyway. Similarly there's no need for nair to be another hair whip when fair is sufficient. Even the Belmonts understand this with their whip spin.

I'd rather Risky's Cannon be the up special, that frees up the uppercut kick as a normal. Your Pike Ball is too limited to be useful and is almost a straight downgrade from Leaf Shield, as this implementation of transformations is one towards Pokemon Trainer's switching. I'd just put Pike Balls as a down smash, with higher charges resulting in more of them. Fire spells can be split into three charge levels like Hero's Frizz line. Storm Puff being a slow-moving thunder trap side special.

A far more elegant way to include transformations is to have them replace certain moves and actions while active, retaining the human moves they don't replace.

- Monkey replaces her dash and dash attack to move faster, possibly also giving increased jump height and air speed if done from a dash.
- Elephant replaces her smashes with powerful armoured variants, as well as her dash attack and down air.
- Harpy allows Shantae to jump multiple times, and replaces her up special with the ability to fly freely for a time with different, enhanced aerials. Like most such moves, loses power if used repeatedly.
- Spider replaces her grab with a web tether, and gives her a powerful suite of throws for killing, comboing and raising damage via poison. Also grants a zair.

In consideration to Kirby, I'd make the dances her down special with Fire being neutral. Also helps that Seven Sirens has made instant transformations canon now.

When I said "similar to captain falcon" I meant that his initial dash has a startup. She's not as fast as Falcon by any means.

The reason her hair whip is on so many moves is so you can very easily approach with it. Trying to approach with a nair or a jab is really difficult. I wanted it to feel like how fighting in Shantae feels, where you can move around and whip your hair all over the place.

Cannon being up special is overkill when she has access to a harpy form. Also I felt the cannon was stealing a bit too much from Risky. She's wielded Scimitars without Risky's stuff, but she hasn't wielded a cannon.

Considering she can still use her normals while the Pike Ball is out... no I wouldn't say it's a straight downgrade. In fact it's probably still overpowered, since there's almost no reason not to use it at any given opportunity. It's just adding another hitbox for the cost of having to do a little animation of activating it.

As I mentioned in the note, I'm well aware of what I COULD do with her fire spells. The problem is that it would be too ridiculous. Do you want to fight a Roy or Chrom that has Luigi's neutral B? Because I sure as hell don't. She can't have a good projectile that she has immediate access to, because her hair is just too good. Unless you want her hair to have a hurtbox, but that's just begging for confusion. People get upset about Mewtwo's tail having a hurtbox, and that's literally part of his body.

The "far more elegant" way to include her transformations is something I was well aware of, and had thought of, but turned it down, because it's boring. It might be how they work in-game in Seven Sirens, but for every other Shantae game, she can't just instantly transform in and out of different bodies to do different attacks. Also, not to mention, having a certain transformation "active" but not actually doing anything unless you use specific moves is... very unintuitive.

I wanted to make her FEEL like you're playing a Shantae game. The transformations are seperate forms entirely because that's how it is in Shantae. You have to switch forms to whatever is best for the current situation. In the Shantae games, this manifests as "oh there's a bunch of platforming and wall jumps I have to do, I'll switch to Monkey form for now." In Smash, this would manifest as "I'm at a high percent, I should switch to Elephant for a bit so I can survive a little longer." or "The opponent is playing aggressively, I should switch to Spider so I can zone them out and take advantage of their mistakes." etc. etc.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So do you guys think they would really save Shantae for last in the Season Pass or literally as the last newcomer in Ultimate if she is in? I don't know for sure if they would or not as they might not see Shantae as finale material.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

So do you guys think they would really save Shantae for last in the Season Pass or literally as the last newcomer in Ultimate if she is in? I don't know for sure if they would or not as they might not see Shantae as finale material.

That is a little hard to say. One count against her would be that for the finale you would think they would want to save a HUGE character that would blow fans away. Banjo already did that, so to top that it would need to be someone wanted even more than the Bear and bird.

However, there is a pattern I'm noticing that could mean something for our girl. It seems likely that every DLC character is attached to an announcement or a release of a game coming to the Switch. With Joker came the announcement of the Persona Warriors spin off. Then Hero releases little more than a month before the next Dragon Quest game hits Switch.

Then it become more speculative, but... Ever since Nintendo and Microsoft started getting chummy, talks of Rare Replay hitting switch went around. After Banjo's reveal those talks only escalated and they seem quite likely. Now with the possible SNK rep which would release around December, we have the Next SamSho game releasing around that time...

Those last two could fall apart, but if it doesn't, the fifth character would have a game being announced or released around the time the fifth character would drop (likely January or more likely February)

Now, we don't have a release date for Seven Sirens beyond "2019" which does feel odd considering how little of the year there is left. So it's possible that it has been delayed, either for more work being needed, or perhaps to better line it's release up to when she would be announced for Smash to capitalize on the buzz and excitement that would be surrounding her for such an occasion...

Again, that is all nothing but wishful speculation, but it is still a possibility. Still, it seems like they would want to end the DLC with something that would be kind of Earth Shattering. for the Smash community I could see that being Geno, for the casual video game fans in general... I don't know what would cause more of an uproar than Banjo...

 

[meleebrawler]

When I said "similar to captain falcon" I meant that his initial dash has a startup. She's not as fast as Falcon by any means.

The reason her hair whip is on so many moves is so you can very easily approach with it. Trying to approach with a nair or a jab is really difficult. I wanted it to feel like how fighting in Shantae feels, where you can move around and whip your hair all over the place.

Cannon being up special is overkill when she has access to a harpy form. Also I felt the cannon was stealing a bit too much from Risky. She's wielded Scimitars without Risky's stuff, but she hasn't wielded a cannon.

Considering she can still use her normals while the Pike Ball is out... no I wouldn't say it's a straight downgrade. In fact it's probably still overpowered, since there's almost no reason not to use it at any given opportunity. It's just adding another hitbox for the cost of having to do a little animation of activating it.

As I mentioned in the note, I'm well aware of what I COULD do with her fire spells. The problem is that it would be too ridiculous. Do you want to fight a Roy or Chrom that has Luigi's neutral B? Because I sure as hell don't. She can't have a good projectile that she has immediate access to, because her hair is just too good. Unless you want her hair to have a hurtbox, but that's just begging for confusion. People get upset about Mewtwo's tail having a hurtbox, and that's literally part of his body.

The "far more elegant" way to include her transformations is something I was well aware of, and had thought of, but turned it down, because it's boring. It might be how they work in-game in Seven Sirens, but for every other Shantae game, she can't just instantly transform in and out of different bodies to do different attacks. Also, not to mention, having a certain transformation "active" but not actually doing anything unless you use specific moves is... very unintuitive.

I wanted to make her FEEL like you're playing a Shantae game. The transformations are seperate forms entirely because that's how it is in Shantae. You have to switch forms to whatever is best for the current situation. In the Shantae games, this manifests as "oh there's a bunch of platforming and wall jumps I have to do, I'll switch to Monkey form for now." In Smash, this would manifest as "I'm at a high percent, I should switch to Elephant for a bit so I can survive a little longer." or "The opponent is playing aggressively, I should switch to Spider so I can zone them out and take advantage of their mistakes." etc. etc.

When was transforming in a fight ever a good idea in the games if it didn't have a puzzle attached? They only work well as occasional cheese. And if you think her hair whipping is so good as to consider them borderline OP, maybe she doesn't have to transform at all. Your elephant is completely useless for survival because of your brilliant decision to not let any of them shield or dodge, it has no redeeming qualities like Charizard does with his great movement, jumps and good recovery and unlike Shield Shulk, has a limited moveset. Monkey is also far too limited by no shields or dodges and can be kept at bay easily by any attack due to it's poor range. Spider... is just pointless. Your harpy is the only useful transformation of the bunch because of how powerful aerial movement is in Smash.

You're overstating the power of whips. If the range is an issue, just add more startup. Not unheard of, the original was pretty slow compared to what we have now, and besides, their range is completely linear, nothing like the arcing swings that give swords such great coverage.

I'm all for faithfulness, but if that path has nothing good to offer I have no issue tossing it aside. Every time I hear someone try to do full transformations with Shantae in Smash, all I think of is "worse Pokemon Trainer". I actually think your ideas are even more boring, since the best thing to do with yours is just whip, whip, and whip some more.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

When was transforming in a fight ever a good idea in the games if it didn't have a puzzle attached? They only work well as occasional cheese. And if you think her hair whipping is so good as to consider them borderline OP, maybe she doesn't have to transform at all. Your elephant is completely useless for survival because of your brilliant decision to not let any of them shield or dodge, it has no redeeming qualities like Charizard does with his great movement, jumps and good recovery and unlike Shield Shulk, has a limited moveset. Monkey is also far too limited by no shields or dodges and can be kept at bay easily by any attack due to it's poor range. Spider... is just pointless. Your harpy is the only useful transformation of the bunch because of how powerful aerial movement is in Smash.

You're overstating the power of whips. If the range is an issue, just add more startup. Not unheard of, the original was pretty slow compared to what we have now, and besides, their range is completely linear, nothing like the arcing swings that give swords such great coverage.

I'm all for faithfulness, but if that path has nothing good to offer I have no issue tossing it aside. Every time I hear someone try to do full transformations with Shantae in Smash, all I think of is "worse Pokemon Trainer". I actually think your ideas are even more boring, since the best thing to do with yours is just whip, whip, and whip some more.

You can near instantly switch back to human form and switching to a form is also just as fast. It's nothing like Pokemon Trainer at all. It's a lot more like Shulk. The transformations don't have to be totally useful on their own, because they're not meant to be. Spider has a projectile that I thought I made pretty clear was a great tool for zoning out opponents and playing defensively, but I guess I didn't explain it well enough for you to understand.

If she didn't transform for her moveset she wouldn't really be Shantae, now would she?

 

[Shinuto]

You can near instantly switch back to human form and switching to a form is also just as fast. It's nothing like Pokemon Trainer at all. It's a lot more like Shulk. The transformations don't have to be totally useful on their own, because they're not meant to be. Spider has a projectile that I thought I made pretty clear was a great tool for zoning out opponents and playing defensively, but I guess I didn't explain it well enough for you to understand.

If she didn't transform for her moveset she wouldn't really be Shantae, now would she?

I'd argue her transformations wouldn't be overpowered if they were allowed to shield and dodge. They don't seem to be too exceptionally powerful that such a a heavy limitation would seem needed. I'd personally change either nair or fair to something else one of them keep the hair whip but either nair should be the twirling move from the first game or fair should be changed to a kick or an aerial elbow hit.
Pikeball is fine but you should still be able to double jump, shield and dodge with it, unless this thing is like leaf shield on steroids in terms of damage or knockback.

Overall I like your ideas,

 

[meleebrawler]

You can near instantly switch back to human form and switching to a form is also just as fast. It's nothing like Pokemon Trainer at all. It's a lot more like Shulk. The transformations don't have to be totally useful on their own, because they're not meant to be. Spider has a projectile that I thought I made pretty clear was a great tool for zoning out opponents and playing defensively, but I guess I didn't explain it well enough for you to understand.

If she didn't transform for her moveset she wouldn't really be Shantae, now would she?

She does in my ideas. Just not in they way you think. Which is going the way of the dino come Seven Sirens anyway, because even the fans and Wayforward could see that it was an unnecessary extra step that was slowing things down.

 

[Dukefire]

Just to say about the SNK leak.

While I don't know to trust it or not about challenger #4 being from SNK, I will say that it might be a mistake from the developer of the website.

Though, I could be wrong as the truth was in front of me, but I'll keep my doubts with an open mind.

 

[zferolie]

Just to say about the SNK leak.

While I don't know to trust it or not about challenger #4 being from SNK, I will say that it might be a mistake from the developer of the website.

Though, I could be wrong as the truth was in front of me, but I'll keep my doubts with an open mind.

Right now it seems 100% legit nintendo accidental leak.

This doesn't hurt Shantae's chances at all. In fact, if the fighter is a female with a flying weapon(bird or projectile) it may really help her, due to that other Milk leak saying the last fighter is in the game already, or series is represented already. That sounds like a spirit promotion to me.

 

[Dukefire]

Right now it seems 100% legit nintendo accidental leak.

This doesn't hurt Shantae's chances at all. In fact, if the fighter is a female with a flying weapon(bird or projectile) it may really help her, due to that other Milk leak saying the last fighter is in the game already, or series is represented already. That sounds like a spirit promotion to me.

The Nintendo Direct maybe somewhere this month will provide a lot of info. So, it will clear the confusion for a while from leaks far and wide.

 

[zferolie]

The Nintendo Direct maybe somewhere this month will provide a lot of info. So, it will clear the confusion for a while from leaks far and wide.

Exactly. Hopefully it is this week as well.

Also, I don't get why this site hates loading images sometimes, here is the imgur link to see the full Milk Botsu leaks.

https://imgur.com/a/ynPXfJL

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Also, is people still forgetting that Kazooie is another female added with Banjo as a duo fighter?

It's a plus, but being part of a duo is not satisfactory to those who prefer a full fledged character. I see people still wanting more female characters for the fighter pass in the newcomer speculation thread.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Exactly. Hopefully it is this week as well.

Also, I don't get why this site hates loading images sometimes, here is the imgur link to see the full Milk Botsu leaks.

https://imgur.com/a/ynPXfJL

If this leak is proven, then the final character can logically only be either Rayman or Shantae due to the fact that Geno isn't exactly the main character of SMRPG plus the fact that the DLC focus has been on third parties.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

So do you guys think they would really save Shantae for last in the Season Pass or literally as the last newcomer in Ultimate if she is in? I don't know for sure if they would or not as they might not see Shantae as finale material.

Nintendo has tended to front load smash picks with bigger characters, so the last character could be small or big. A wide spectrum of possibilities.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Just to say about the SNK leak.

While I don't know to trust it or not about challenger #4 being from SNK, I will say that it might be a mistake from the developer of the website.

Though, I could be wrong as the truth was in front of me, but I'll keep my doubts with an open mind.

Sabi has come out and said that her very credible sources say that the SNK copyright on the site is 99% percent legit.

 

[Dukefire]

If that's the case, then Fatal Fury, King of Fighting or Metal Slug rep will be the next challenger.

While I don't know for Fatal Fury or King of Fighting for stage, I can give for metal slug.

Metal Slug's Stage:
All players are in a war zone with armies wreaking havoc. Hazards would be the crossfire of bullets, explosives, weird creatures and even invaders from another world. Another would be saving hostages, rescue them and they will give an item or even help you fight in return.

 

[GoldLiger]

Well the next fight Shantae is in now against again(X4) Bandana Waddle Dee.

GO VOTE FOR SHANTAE!!!!!

EDIT: Oh my GOD I thought she lost in the tournament but she BEAT SCORPION OF ALL CHARACTERS!!!!!! Half Genie love can combat the fires of HELL!!!!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Well the next fight Shantae is in now against again(X4) Bandana Waddle Dee.

GO VOTE FOR SHANTAE!!!!!

EDIT: Oh my GOD I thought she lost in the tournament but she BEAT SCORPION OF ALL CHARACTERS!!!!!! Half Genie love can combat the fires of HELL!!!!

Yes! Shantae is simply the queen.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well the next fight Shantae is in now against again(X4) Bandana Waddle Dee.

GO VOTE FOR SHANTAE!!!!!

EDIT: Oh my GOD I thought she lost in the tournament but she BEAT SCORPION OF ALL CHARACTERS!!!!!! Half Genie love can combat the fires of HELL!!!!

Course she can, she just instigated a mass breakout there just by existing in it.

 

[zferolie]

New shantae art, this time as a low play dance of her!

Art is by the Reressor, source here: https://the-regressor.tumblr.com/post/187429485290/shantae-i-finally-played-and-beat-my-first

EDIT. Man Smashboards is failing at loading images today huh? just click the link to see

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It mostly failed for me yesterday too. If the Direct arrives this week (PLEASE, I want my vacation to be worth it), the board may end up imploding from the uptick of activity at this rate.

 

[Biometal]

Well the next fight Shantae is in now against again(X4) Bandana Waddle Dee.

GO VOTE FOR SHANTAE!!!!!

EDIT: Oh my GOD I thought she lost in the tournament but she BEAT SCORPION OF ALL CHARACTERS!!!!!! Half Genie love can combat the fires of HELL!!!!

I kinda feel bad. People have been getting furious over her dominance in this, which silly on their part. Oh well. I said I'd help Dee, so I'll vote both.

 

[Wademan94]

PokéfreakofBACON hey, I just looked over your moveset and it’s pretty good, a number of your ideas line up with mine and I’ll try to give you my full thoughts and feedback soon but I’d also would like your thoughts on my version:

Spoiler: Full Moveset/Animation Ideas

On-screen Entrance: Shantae flies in with Sky on Wrench and hops onto the stage saying "Ret-2-Go!"

Neutral Attack: whips her hair to attack up to 3-times in succession (Both the down tilt and neutral aerial also use the hair whip)
Dash Attack: Slides forward with her feet up (Rottytops race from GBC game)
Forward Tilt: Power Kick from Pirate’s Curse
Up Tilt: She manually pushes her ponytail upward to have it whip opponents from above

Forward Smash: Elbow dash from the first Shantae game, propels her forward a good distance
Down Smash: Puts her hands together and shakes her hips forward then backward (uses the dance mapped to the A button in the first game/elephant dance from Risky’s Revenge)
Up Smash: 2-hit spin kick from the first Shantae game, the kick could potentially knock any opponents in front of her upwards to get hit by the somersault

Forward Aerial: Based off her twirl attack from the first game, she spins around ballerina style with her hair hitting opponents as she twirls around. Propels her forward in the air
Back Aerial: Uses a short-range Flamethrower, hits multiple times
Up Aerial: In a pose similar to her Half-Genie Hero artwork, she thrusts her hand upward with a Fireball in her hand
Down Aerial: The drill attack from the first game, similar to Sonic’s Down air, but can hit an opponent more than once.

Grab: non-tether grab and she pummels her opponent by using her hip.
Forward Throw: She pulls out her scimitar and dashes into her opponent
Back Throw: Throws her opponent behind her and slashes at them with her scimitar
Up Throw: Tosses her opponent up while holding her scimitar above her head similar to the Pirate’s Curse artwork, then slashes it forward in an arc.
Down throw: Throws her opponent to the ground and pogo bounces on them with her scimitar

Neutral Special: Transformation Dance, similar to Half-Genie Hero, Shantae dances and activates a selection of transformations around her and must select a direction to transform similar to Shulk’s new Monado Arts activation (lasts for 10-15 sec., shield and B to cancel out) Each Transformation would have one attack and one special attack

Forward-Monkey (Low Damage and more taken, High Jump, Wall Climb)
Attack: Monkey Claw (arching slash, can be used to juggle opponents)
Special: Monkey Bullet (weak but fast dash, slightly slower than Fox Illusion)

Down-Elephant (Low Speed and Jump, High Knockback and Less Taken)
Attack: Elephant Dash (slow but powerful dash attack)
Special: Elephant Stomp (high knockback)

Back-Spider (double jump allows her to use webbing to pull herself up if a surface is above, also capable of grabbing enemies and pulling them to her to jump off of)
Attack: Spider Leg (performs an uppercut with her frontal leg similar to the Bonelegs enemy in HGH, effectively attacks enemies above her)
Special: Spider Venom (continuously deals damage similar to flowers)

Up-Harpy (Less Traction and Floaty, Multiple Jumps)
Attack: Harpy Talon (overhead slash, potential meteor smash)
Special: Harpy Feather (low damage, but can fire multiple at a time)

Side Special: Triple Fireball-shoots out three fire balls-one straight forward, one angled upward, and one angled down.

Up Special: Storm Puff-summons a Storm Puff to hang on to as it floats upwards for a bit, the puff will send thunder down at its peak and disappear after. She can jump off at any time, but if she hangs on too long she’ll be shocked off in the direction she’s facing (no damage).

Down Special: Pike Ball-similar to Mega Man’s Leaf Shield, one Pike Ball revolves around Shantae. It lasts a bit longer but can’t be thrown.

Final Smash: Half-Genie’s Power: To start, Shantae would transform into the mermaid to trap her opponents in bubbles which would gather into one, then all her main transformations from HGH (Mermaid, Spider, Harpy, Monkey, and if they have time to model them out: Crab, Bat, and Mouse) fly back and forth across the screen to attack the captured opponents, and finally she’d fly up off-screen to smash the opponents to the ground with the giant elephant and send them flying. (inspired by several attacks Shantae uses for her boss at the end of Pirate Queen’s Quest) The background of the stage would change to resemble the Genie Realm from HGH.

Her taunts would consist of some of the belly dances from the GBA game, specifically the ones mapped to the D-Pad (potential Easter egg could have you transform to a Tinkerbat for a moment when you put in the button combination for that dance)

Idle Animations:
-Straightening out her hair like in Pirate’s Curse
-Places her hand on her hip and puts out her finger to create a dancing flame (cover art for Risky’s Revenge)
-Imitates Rottytop’s idle stance for a bit

Victory Animations:
-Spinning around in midair like she does when she completes a stage from her games
-Her flying in her monkey form to grab a gem, then transforming back to perform a dance (like in Super Shantae NAB)
-Landing from a jump and performing her Stage Clear pose from HGH

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

PokéfreakofBACON hey, I just looked over your moveset and it’s pretty good, a number of your ideas line up with mine and I’ll try to give you my full thoughts and feedback soon but I’d also would like your thoughts on my version:

The way you did transformations is pretty much exactly the same as I did, lmao. Obviously I'm a fan of her neutral special. Aside from that, if you want specific critique...

Spoiler

Her forward tilt is a bit odd to me. That move, as laughably weak as it was, is pretty slow for a tilt. Obviously slow powerful tilts CAN exist, but it seems like an attack that would be much better used in a Smash attack. Just personal opinion though, I guess.

I have no reference for what that dash attack is referencing, but assuming it's anything like her sliding pose from the HGH autoscrollers I kinda love it. It's silly, and that fits her really well.

Her Fair/Bair/Uair are... eh? For one, a spinning move like that doesn't seem very forward to me, especially if it hits in both directions. I used that for her up air, because I feel like it's a lot more fitting. A move similar to Samus's up air, except with her hair instead of turning upside down to use her feet. Using the flamethrower for back-air is dubious at best. I might just not be seeing it right in my mind, but projectile aerials are something I feel like you should typically avoid unless it's for a character who is specifically projectile oriented, like Mega Man or Mii Gunner. Up air seems decent enough, other than not feeling like it's based on much of anything. Without trying to sound TOO biased, I made Fair her whip attack as well, so you could more easily approach with it. Mega Man has a different Fair, but he doesn't exactly need pellets on his Fair either. I dunno.

Her down-air and down throw should be switched, IMO. The drill kick works fine as a down-air, but using her scimitar like that for a throw just seems... odd. In order to do that attack, she'd need both hands, and since it's not a tether grab with her hair, the physicality of it doesn't make much sense. Using the drill kick as a down throw seems a lot more realistic to me.

Her other throws don't have the same problem, since they can easily be one-handed sword slashes, but at the same time they just don't feel particlarly Shantae-like to me. Shantae is not a swordfighter at all, she only uses a sword occasionally for very unskilled moves. Having her do swordfighting techniques like this just doesn't feel in-character to me.

The way you did her specific transformations is almost exactly the same as I did, except with one difference. Giving harpy a projectile, I think, is way too strong. Harpy is already going to be based around moving around and controlling the air, so giving her a projectile, no matter how crappy it is, is probably a bad idea. I suppose it could be balanced, but I think it's better off sacrificing the "canon" of her harpy form to keep it more reasonable in Smash context.

The other three transformations are pretty much exactly how I did them aside from the specifics. No complaints here obviously The only thing I could say about them is that you put Elephant as the down transformation and Spider as back, which makes maybe slightly more sense intuitively, but is less accurate to HGH. In HGH, Elephant is the back transformation on page 1, and Spider is the down transformation on page 2. Not a huge deal, really.

As I mentioned before, I think giving her a projectile, especially one that goes in three directions like you have it, is too strong for the rest of her kit. Spider having a good projectile is fine since it's locked behind her transforming, but having a projectile with easy access to it at all times is just downright busted for this kind of character. Even if the way you set up her normals is slightly less based around disjoints with her hair, combining a character with good speed and range with a good projectile can end up overpowered very easily. (Imagine if Mario had a disjointed move like Shantae's hair whip, on top of his already good neutral game with his speed/projectile. It'd be busted as hell.)

I like the up special, even if it is mostly original in function. It's cute.

If pike ball can't be thrown, I think giving it 3 projectiles and making it super pike ball would be better the way you're describing it. If she can't do anything while it's out like Mega Man's leaf shield, then only having one of them is just gonna make no one use the move ever. Unless it did a ton of damage or something, but that'd be a little out of place IMO.

 

[Dukefire]

In case you haven't heard of it, but another Japan 7-11 image posted with Banjo Kazooie. Just like hero, expect them to come before sept 15 arrives.

Spoiler: Image

Click here for the image

 

[Wademan94]

The way you did transformations is pretty much exactly the same as I did, lmao. Obviously I'm a fan of her neutral special. Aside from that, if you want specific critique...

Spoiler

Her forward tilt is a bit odd to me. That move, as laughably weak as it was, is pretty slow for a tilt. Obviously slow powerful tilts CAN exist, but it seems like an attack that would be much better used in a Smash attack. Just personal opinion though, I guess.

10% is average for a forward tilt, it could be sped up, like as fast as at least Mewtwo.

I have no reference for what that dash attack is referencing, but assuming it's anything like her sliding pose from the HGH autoscrollers I kinda love it. It's silly, and that fits her really well.

It’s moreso based of the sliding move Shantae uses in her race against Rotty in the GBC game (I pulled from a lot of dumb places for her moves)

Her Fair/Bair/Uair are... eh? For one, a spinning move like that doesn't seem very forward to me, especially if it hits in both directions. I used that for her up air, because I feel like it's a lot more fitting. A move similar to Samus's up air, except with her hair instead of turning upside down to use her feet. Using the flamethrower for back-air is dubious at best. I might just not be seeing it right in my mind, but projectile aerials are something I feel like you should typically avoid unless it's for a character who is specifically projectile oriented, like Mega Man or Mii Gunner. Up air seems decent enough, other than not feeling like it's based on much of anything. Without trying to sound TOO biased, I made Fair her whip attack as well, so you could more easily approach with it. Mega Man has a different Fair, but he doesn't exactly need pellets on his Fair either. I dunno.

The move in the GBC game propels you forward after use (somewhat from the momentum of the elbow dash but it looks faster that it when in use) so I’m mostly just pulling from that. The only other option I could see is switching the F and N aerials and having the twirling stay in place
B-air is less projectile and more mid-range multi-hit attack if it connects.
U-air is more of a small burst of flame coming out of her hand and it’s supposed to be based off her one HGH pose, I didn’t have any other attacks in mind that would attack directly above her.

Her down-air and down throw should be switched, IMO. The drill kick works fine as a down-air, but using her scimitar like that for a throw just seems... odd. In order to do that attack, she'd need both hands, and since it's not a tether grab with her hair, the physicality of it doesn't make much sense. Using the drill kick as a down throw seems a lot more realistic to me.

I was thinking the force of her throwing the opponent would push her up into the air and she’d pull out the scimitar and thrusts it down like that attack. Plus the drill stomp goes diagonally and I think that would look more awkward as a down throw regardless.

Her other throws don't have the same problem, since they can easily be one-handed sword slashes, but at the same time they just don't feel particlarly Shantae-like to me. Shantae is not a swordfighter at all, she only uses a sword occasionally for very unskilled moves. Having her do swordfighting techniques like this just doesn't feel in-character to me.

This is what I initially had for her throws:

Forward Throw: She hair-whips her opponent.
Back Throw: Throws her opponent behind her while using Flamethrower to torch her opponent, hits multiple times
Up Throw: Tosses her opponent up and hits them with multiple scimitars orbiting around her
Down Throw: Throws her opponent to the ground and uses Super Mega Puff to shock her opponent

I wasn’t going to include any of the Pirate Gear for consistency sake but I wanted to streamline the throws a bit more when I decided to make the scimitar her D-throw since the others felt too random. I wasn’t picturing her being graceful with it regardless Aside from these two ideas I have no clue what her throws should be.

The way you did her specific transformations is almost exactly the same as I did, except with one difference. Giving harpy a projectile, I think, is way too strong. Harpy is already going to be based around moving around and controlling the air, so giving her a projectile, no matter how crappy it is, is probably a bad idea. I suppose it could be balanced, but I think it's better off sacrificing the "canon" of her harpy form to keep it more reasonable in Smash context.

not even if it’s like Fox’s Blaster or Bayonetta’s non-special bullets just doing chip damage? I don’t think just having a short range attack with her talons would be enough. Maybe she could also run the risk of falling when using it, cut off air stalling to mess with its accuracy? I also wanted it to stay consistent with the other three forms.

As I mentioned before, I think giving her a projectile, especially one that goes in three directions like you have it, is too strong for the rest of her kit. Spider having a good projectile is fine since it's locked behind her transforming, but having a projectile with easy access to it at all times is just downright busted for this kind of character. Even if the way you set up her normals is slightly less based around disjoints with her hair, combining a character with good speed and range with a good projectile can end up overpowered very easily. (Imagine if Mario had a disjointed move like Shantae's hair whip, on top of his already good neutral game with his speed/projectile. It'd be busted as hell.)

If you think it might be too powerful, it’s possible I could just tie all her specials to a magic meter. I mean the only things I think I had for weakening it would have been to not do much damage or travel like a third of FD and for the bottom fireball to only be effective on ledges. I also don’t think I made her hair disjointed, at least for her attacking animations.

I like the up special, even if it is mostly original in function. It's cute.

I got the idea from a Risky’s Revenge artwork of her holding it above her head.

If pike ball can't be thrown, I think giving it 3 projectiles and making it super pike ball would be better the way you're describing it. If she can't do anything while it's out like Mega Man's leaf shield, then only having one of them is just gonna make no one use the move ever. Unless it did a ton of damage or something, but that'd be a little out of place IMO.

It would function like Bounce, you’d be able to move around with it.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The two-week wait period between Nindies and a Direct has bared fruit once again!

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/09/nintendo_direct_confirmed_for_tomorrow_4th_september