Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

We all spent the day shaking our heads at the non supporters in the Rate Their Chances thread.

I didn't see that thread, because I know that the RTC thread was a mistake.

 

[EarlTamm]

I was actually surprised at how much good was said in the RTC, at least when it came to how many people wanted her. Don't know what that says about my experience with the RTC comparison wise, but I felt like it should be said.

 

[Dukefire]

Well, hope she can get in. If not, there is always a next time. Also, here is a shantae artwork for tonight.
Artist: Rafchu

Spoiler: Image

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Hmmm, I think Rotty has too many hands in that picture...

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Hmmm, I think Rotty has too many hands in that picture...

Not sure what you mean. She only has two.

 

[GoldLiger]

Here some Mecha Shantae artwork!!!

Tengen Toppa Shantae
Or mecha shantae which ever u feel works 😂 still was tryna go for TTGL _(:3#Shantae5 #ShantaeHalfgenieHero #Wayforward @WayForward pic.twitter.com/6hhw7JH6pq

— Khaizer VGEN Commission Closed (@KHaiser93) July 19, 2019

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Not sure what you mean. She only has two.

There appear to be two right hands and two left hand. Her left hand is holding her head and there are two right hands to the left of her body (our left, not her left)

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

There appear to be two right hands and no left hand. Her left hand is holding her head and there are two right hands to the left of her body (our left, not her left)

Oh I didn't see the third. Yeah that's... odd.

 

[Sunny-Zee]

Here some Mecha Shantae artwork!!!

Tengen Toppa Shantae
Or mecha shantae which ever u feel works 😂 still was tryna go for TTGL _(:3#Shantae5 #ShantaeHalfgenieHero #Wayforward @WayForward pic.twitter.com/6hhw7JH6pq

— Khaizer VGEN Commission Closed (@KHaiser93) July 19, 2019

“Remember this. Believe in yourself, Shantae. Not you who believes in me, not me who believes in you. Believe in the Shantae... who believes in herself!”

 

[zferolie]

So the Risky figure is going to be at this years wonder con in japan. And man she is looking good. Plus you can remove her hat it seems!

【#キャラグミン 商品情報】
大人気ゲーム『シャンティ』より、主人公のライバル「リスキィ・ブーツ」がキャラグミンで新登場!!
価格:￥7,500(税別)

7/28(日)より全国の #ボークス 店舗、通販にて発売!!
同日開催のワンダーフェスティバル2019[夏]でも販売いたします！#shantae #wf2019s pic.twitter.com/3tabVMki9P

— ボークス ホビー企画室公式 (@volks_hobbydept) July 19, 2019

I normally have a buddy go to wonder con for me to grab a bunch of figures but i cant afford it this year. I'll get her when she is on their website. Also i still need to put together Shantae and Rotty, but worried about breaking them or messing them up.

 

[sbhouse12345]

Who the heck is thunder productions and qe should we care what they have to say?

Anyway has verge heard anything? Like it or not he he had some pre dlc info. Just curious if hes heard anything

Because it's getting to the point where I can't even publicly share an opinion without someone like Thunder shoving his opinions down my thought

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So the Risky figure is going to be at this years wonder con in japan. And man she is looking good. Plus you can remove her hat it seems!

-snip-

I normally have a buddy go to wonder con for me to grab a bunch of figures but i cant afford it this year. I'll get her when she is on their website. Also i still need to put together Shantae and Rotty, but worried about breaking them or messing them up.

The Shantae and Rottytops figures are also great.

 

[zferolie]

Because it's getting to the point where I can't even publicly share an opinion without someone like Thunder shoving his opinions down my thought

I tend to just try to ignore those guys. Something i learned from rl crap i went through.

The Shantae and Rottytops figures are also great.
View attachment 231890View attachment 231891

Yeah i have them, just havent put them together as i am worried about not dping a good job and screwing up

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So the Risky figure is going to be at this years wonder con in japan. And man she is looking good. Plus you can remove her hat it seems!

That's even better! And her pose is desk-friendly to boot~ (Before anyone says it, the word at the end just came naturally to me.)

Here some Mecha Shantae artwork!!!

Giga Dance Breaker!

Hmmm, I think Rotty has too many hands in that picture...

How does anyone get that far doing a picture without noticing a mistake like that??

 

[Dukefire]

A different artwork for tonight.

Here is to Hero's arrival coming soon.
Artist: NinNakajima

Spoiler: Image

Also, some of them from salt: Hoes Mad

 

[meleebrawler]

How does anyone get that far doing a picture without noticing a mistake like that??

It's not a mistake, that's just a spare hand Rotty carries around.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I was actually surprised at how much good was said in the RTC, at least when it came to how many people wanted her. Don't know what that says about my experience with the RTC comparison wise, but I felt like it should be said.

I was surprised as well because I feel like too many people underestimate Shantae's popularity outside of her fanbase. Even before Banjo & Kazooie was announced, she was in the top 5 for most wanted characters on almost every poll you could find on the Internet.

 

[Dukefire]

From Sakurai on a previous interview years ago:
"Basically, any character is accepted if I believe it works [in the game]. On the other hand, even if a character is unique, if they overlap with other characters and aren't unique as a fighter, they are rejected."

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

From Sakurai on a previous interview years ago:
"Basically, any character is accepted if I believe it works [in the game]. On the other hand, even if a character is unique, if they overlap with other characters and aren't unique as a fighter, they are rejected."

Got a source for that?

 

[Dukefire]

Click here to go to the previous kataku website interview

 

[Wademan94]

From Sakurai on a previous interview years ago:
"Basically, any character is accepted if I believe it works [in the game]. On the other hand, even if a character is unique, if they overlap with other characters and aren't unique as a fighter, they are rejected."

Who on earth could Shantae overlap?!

 

[Dukefire]

Who on earth could Shantae overlap?!

Your question is good as mine.

 

[ProtoTwi]

Who on earth could Shantae overlap?!

Well...... we already do have a female character who likes to dance, uses her magic hair as a weapon, can transform in to an animal.

 

[Wademan94]

Well...... we already do have a female character who likes to dance, uses her magic hair as a weapon, can transform in to an animal.

Well she doesn’t transform into an animal in Smash...

 

[Dukefire]

Actually she does, but as bats to reduce damage if she misses witch time or spot dodge

 

[Sunny-Zee]

Well...... we already do have a female character who likes to dance, uses her magic hair as a weapon, can transform in to an animal.

Well she doesn’t transform into an animal in Smash...

And no, turning into a flock of bats in a dodge animation and sprouting butterfly wings for a double jump doesn’t count. Nice try, though.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Eh, that rule's probably outdated by now (considering it was years ago), we all know how Sakurai loosens up on them over time. Hell, we're allowed to have people with guns now.

Also, Kotaku isn't the best site for accuracy...

 

[meleebrawler]

I've created a trilogy of Mighty Switch Force levels in Mario Maker:

Part 1: 5Q7-PG2-1R2
Part 2: MW0-S3D-3WF
Part 3: KJC-GLT-CTG

Well...... we already do have a female character who likes to dance, uses her magic hair as a weapon, can transform in to an animal.

We also have:

A magic wielding swordsman with limited resources: /
A renegade that unleashes hidden power when pushed: /
A mammal and avian combo with affinity for gunplay: /

And that's before getting into the clones and semi-clones. The way I see Shantae, even if she takes some inspiration from the likes of Shulk and Corrin, she could still manage to mix them into something unique.

 

[Dukefire]

Her transformations can be used for both offensive and defensive purposes.
While her magic meter can be based like Hero's, it can done for her magic spells like bubble, pike ball, storm puff and the fireball. Plus, add it for her transformations as a timer to balance it.

 

[meleebrawler]

Her transformations can be used for both offensive and defensive purposes.
While her magic meter can be based like Hero's, it can done for her magic spells like bubble, pike ball, storm puff and the fireball. Plus, add it for her transformations as a timer to balance it.

I don't see much point in a mana meter when her main tool in transformations aren't limited in that way, and chances are she'll only actually use one or two of the moves that actually do use magic (all of which are not essential to progress anyhow).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Regardless of anything, I'm sure they'd figure out the best way to faithfully represent her abilities, while still reworking them in a way that's practical.

In the meantime, here's a fun fan art.

Spoiler: Rotty ball, where everyone wins including the ball, which is Rotty! by yumemi gachiko

 

[ProtoTwi]

Her transformations can be used for both offensive and defensive purposes.
While her magic meter can be based like Hero's, it can done for her magic spells like bubble, pike ball, storm puff and the fireball. Plus, add it for her transformations as a timer to balance it.

We have discussed howher transformations would work, a bunch.

The most common one I've see is she transforms for attacks (like Corrin) and that is likely the easiest to do. but i also think that kinda "un-sakurai) when you look at how all the other new characters are designed.
so I tried to think on how you could incorporate her transformations in a very "Shantae" kinda way

In Shantae her transformations are used primarily as a means to progression gate, they are just useful enough to do the thing it needs to do but you spend most of your time as base Shantae.

so how do you use transformations that specialize in one thing but don't outright replace Shantae?

The idea i came up with is basically Half movesets.

The idea is Shantae's base form is like a jack of all trade character (Very similar to Mario), her basic attacks and smash attacks can be your basic Hair whipping and Pirate Gear. Now where this gets interesting is how her specials would work.
When using a special move you instantly transform in to the corresponding transformation and preform an attack.
Up = Harpy (basic recovery move, but she doesnt become helpless)
Side = Monkey, and does monkey bullet
Down = Elephant, elephant stomp
and Neutral is back to Shantae and a fireball attack

However it wouldnt be fun to HAVE to preform an attack inorder to change so how i though it would work is if you hold the input you transform and attack, if you do the input as if it was a "Special Smash" you transform without attacking,


Now here where the "Half Movesets" come in, mirroring how they operate in her base games, the transformations have a limited moveset, but that limited moveset is VERY good at what it wants to do.

Harpy is obviously amazing in the air, so she can preform Air smashes (Think Robin), has multiple jumps, however, if shes on the ground she only has 1 weak attack, doesn't matter if you smash or tilt or what, its the same weak attack.

Elephant is the opposite, super good on the ground, slow but powerful, VERY STRONG SMASH ATTACKS, but any attack preformed in the air is a weak trunk slap, only transformation that can grab.

and Monkey is fast and agile, can't smash, focuses on weak low knock back moves,

The only thing i dont like about this is it removes the need to dance to transform. my only idea to fix that is her taunts are her dance moves, and if you perform the dance inputs from the first game her transformation is buffed for a short time.

 

[Dukefire]

We have discussed howher transformations would work, a bunch.

The most common one I've see is she transforms for attacks (like Corrin) and that is likely the easiest to do. but i also think that kinda "un-sakurai) when you look at how all the other new characters are designed.
so I tried to think on how you could incorporate her transformations in a very "Shantae" kinda way

In Shantae her transformations are used primarily as a means to progression gate, they are just useful enough to do the thing it needs to do but you spend most of your time as base Shantae.

so how do you use transformations that specialize in one thing but don't outright replace Shantae?

The idea i came up with is basically Half movesets.

The idea is Shantae's base form is like a jack of all trade character (Very similar to Mario), her basic attacks and smash attacks can be your basic Hair whipping and Pirate Gear. Now where this gets interesting is how her specials would work.
When using a special move you instantly transform in to the corresponding transformation and preform an attack.
Up = Harpy (basic recovery move, but she doesnt become helpless)
Side = Monkey, and does monkey bullet
Down = Elephant, elephant stomp
and Neutral is back to Shantae and a fireball attack

However it wouldnt be fun to HAVE to preform an attack inorder to change so how i though it would work is if you hold the input you transform and attack, if you do the input as if it was a "Special Smash" you transform without attacking,


Now here where the "Half Movesets" come in, mirroring how they operate in her base games, the transformations have a limited moveset, but that limited moveset is VERY good at what it wants to do.

Harpy is obviously amazing in the air, so she can preform Air smashes (Think Robin), has multiple jumps, however, if shes on the ground she only has 1 weak attack, doesn't matter if you smash or tilt or what, its the same weak attack.

Elephant is the opposite, super good on the ground, slow but powerful, VERY STRONG SMASH ATTACKS, but any attack preformed in the air is a weak trunk slap, only transformation that can grab.

and Monkey is fast and agile, can't smash, focuses on weak low knock back moves,

The only thing i dont like about this is it removes the need to dance to transform. my only idea to fix that is her taunts are her dance moves, and if you perform the dance inputs from the first game her transformation is buffed for a short time.

Just adding the weight for the animals and shantae herself.
Harpy: light and will slide like luigi would for stop running.
Elephant: REALLY heavy and be very hard to launch, but hard to recover.
Shantae: mid-weight as a all-round fighter with tricks up her sleeve
Monkey: fast, agile and light.

 

[Wademan94]

We have discussed howher transformations would work, a bunch.

The most common one I've see is she transforms for attacks (like Corrin) and that is likely the easiest to do. but i also think that kinda "un-sakurai) when you look at how all the other new characters are designed.
so I tried to think on how you could incorporate her transformations in a very "Shantae" kinda way

In Shantae her transformations are used primarily as a means to progression gate, they are just useful enough to do the thing it needs to do but you spend most of your time as base Shantae.

so how do you use transformations that specialize in one thing but don't outright replace Shantae?

The idea i came up with is basically Half movesets.

The idea is Shantae's base form is like a jack of all trade character (Very similar to Mario), her basic attacks and smash attacks can be your basic Hair whipping and Pirate Gear. Now where this gets interesting is how her specials would work.
When using a special move you instantly transform in to the corresponding transformation and preform an attack.
Up = Harpy (basic recovery move, but she doesnt become helpless)
Side = Monkey, and does monkey bullet
Down = Elephant, elephant stomp
and Neutral is back to Shantae and a fireball attack

However it wouldnt be fun to HAVE to preform an attack inorder to change so how i though it would work is if you hold the input you transform and attack, if you do the input as if it was a "Special Smash" you transform without attacking,


Now here where the "Half Movesets" come in, mirroring how they operate in her base games, the transformations have a limited moveset, but that limited moveset is VERY good at what it wants to do.

Harpy is obviously amazing in the air, so she can preform Air smashes (Think Robin), has multiple jumps, however, if shes on the ground she only has 1 weak attack, doesn't matter if you smash or tilt or what, its the same weak attack.

Elephant is the opposite, super good on the ground, slow but powerful, VERY STRONG SMASH ATTACKS, but any attack preformed in the air is a weak trunk slap, only transformation that can grab.

and Monkey is fast and agile, can't smash, focuses on weak low knock back moves,

The only thing i dont like about this is it removes the need to dance to transform. my only idea to fix that is her taunts are her dance moves, and if you perform the dance inputs from the first game her transformation is buffed for a short time.

I have something similar in mind to how I picture her transformations, except I have them all mapped to her neutral and they’d be timed, here’s my full moveset just for references sake.

I recently updated my moveset a bit, mainly just changed up the throws I had, but it's been a while since I posted my moveset ideas and I wouldn't mind getting some more feedback on them:

Spoiler: Full Moveset/Animation Ideas

On-screen Entrance: Shantae flies in with Sky on Wrench and hops onto the stage saying "Ret-2-Go!"

Neutral Attack: whips her hair to attack up to 3-times in succession (Both the down tilt and neutral aerial also use the hair whip)
Dash Attack: Slides forward with her feet up (Rottytops race from GBC game)
Forward Tilt: Power Kick from Pirate’s Curse
Up Tilt: She manually pushes her ponytail upward to have it whip opponents from above

Forward Smash: Elbow dash from the first Shantae game, propels her forward a good distance
Down Smash: Puts her hands together and shakes her hips forward then backward (uses the dance mapped to the A button in the first game/elephant dance from Risky’s Revenge)
Up Smash: 2-hit spin kick from the first Shantae game, the kick could potentially knock any opponents in front of her upwards to get hit by the somersault

Forward Aerial: Based off her twirl attack from the first game, she spins around ballerina style with her hair hitting opponents as she twirls around. Propels her forward in the air
Back Aerial: Uses a short-range Flamethrower, hits multiple times
Up Aerial: In a pose similar to her Half-Genie Hero artwork, she thrusts her hand upward with a Fireball in her hand
Down Aerial: The drill attack from the first game, similar to Sonic’s Down air, but can hit an opponent more than once.

Grab: non-tether grab and she pummels her opponent by using her hip.
Forward Throw: She pulls out her scimitar and dashes into her opponent
Back Throw: Throws her opponent behind her and slashes at them with her scimitar
Up Throw: Tosses her opponent up while holding her scimitar above her head similar to the Pirate’s Curse artwork, then slashes it forward in an arc.
Down throw: Throws her opponent to the ground and pogo bounces on them with her scimitar

Neutral Special: Transformation Dance, similar to Half-Genie Hero, Shantae dances and activates a selection of transformations around her and must select a direction to transform similar to Shulk’s new Monado Arts activation (lasts for 10-15 sec., shield and B to cancel out) Each Transformation would have one attack and one special attack

Forward-Monkey (Low Damage and more taken, High Jump, Wall Climb)
Attack: Monkey Claw (arching slash, can be used to juggle opponents)
Special: Monkey Bullet (weak but fast dash, slightly slower than Fox Illusion)

Down-Elephant (Low Speed and Jump, High Knockback and Less Taken)
Attack: Elephant Dash (slow but powerful dash attack)
Special: Elephant Stomp (high knockback)

Back-Spider (double jump allows her to use webbing to pull herself up if a surface is above, also capable of grabbing enemies and pulling them to her to jump off of)
Attack: Spider Leg (performs an uppercut with her frontal leg similar to the Bonelegs enemy in HGH, effectively attacks enemies above her)
Special: Spider Venom (continuously deals damage similar to flowers)

Up-Harpy (Less Traction and Floaty, Multiple Jumps)
Attack: Harpy Talon (overhead slash, potential meteor smash)
Special: Harpy Feather (low damage, but can fire multiple at a time)

Side Special: Triple Fireball-shoots out three fire balls-one straight forward, one angled upward, and one angled down.

Up Special: Storm Puff-summons a Storm Puff to hang on to as it floats upwards for a bit, the puff will send thunder down at its peak and disappear after. She can jump off at any time, but if she hangs on too long she’ll be shocked off in the direction she’s facing (no damage).

Down Special: Pike Ball-similar to Mega Man’s Leaf Shield, one Pike Ball revolves around Shantae. It lasts a bit longer but can’t be thrown.

Final Smash: Half-Genie’s Power: To start, Shantae would transform into the mermaid to trap her opponents in bubbles which would gather into one, then all her main transformations from HGH (Mermaid, Spider, Harpy, Monkey, and if they have time to model them out: Crab, Bat, and Mouse) fly back and forth across the screen to attack the captured opponents, and finally she’d fly up off-screen to smash the opponents to the ground with the giant elephant and send them flying. (inspired by several attacks Shantae uses for her boss at the end of Pirate Queen’s Quest) The background of the stage would change to resemble the Genie Realm from HGH.

Her taunts would consist of some of the belly dances from the GBA game, specifically the ones mapped to the D-Pad (potential Easter egg could have you transform to a Tinkerbat for a moment when you put in the button combination for that dance)

Idle Animations:
-Straightening out her hair like in Pirate’s Curse
-Places her hand on her hip and puts out her finger to create a dancing flame (cover art for Risky’s Revenge)
-Imitates Rottytop’s idle stance for a bit

Victory Animations:
-Spinning around in midair like she does when she completes a stage from her games
-Her flying in her monkey form to grab a gem, then transforming back to perform a dance (like in Super Shantae NAB)
-Landing from a jump and performing her Stage Clear pose from HGH

(just as a bit of a disclaimer, I don't want to spark any more arguments on the representation of her transformations in general, so I'd appreciate it if those points were kept to a minimum or made in a mutually respectful way)

 

[EarlTamm]

Here is some neat fan art of Shantae getting a gun lesson from Doomguy.

Spoiler: Art

Source:
https://twitter.com/TheCreator2020/status/1152430258177679360

There has been a bunch of these Doomguy lesson art pieces as of late, and I am glad Shantae was among one of them.

 

[meleebrawler]

We have discussed howher transformations would work, a bunch.

The most common one I've see is she transforms for attacks (like Corrin) and that is likely the easiest to do. but i also think that kinda "un-sakurai) when you look at how all the other new characters are designed.
so I tried to think on how you could incorporate her transformations in a very "Shantae" kinda way

In Shantae her transformations are used primarily as a means to progression gate, they are just useful enough to do the thing it needs to do but you spend most of your time as base Shantae.

so how do you use transformations that specialize in one thing but don't outright replace Shantae?

The idea i came up with is basically Half movesets.

The idea is Shantae's base form is like a jack of all trade character (Very similar to Mario), her basic attacks and smash attacks can be your basic Hair whipping and Pirate Gear. Now where this gets interesting is how her specials would work.
When using a special move you instantly transform in to the corresponding transformation and preform an attack.
Up = Harpy (basic recovery move, but she doesnt become helpless)
Side = Monkey, and does monkey bullet
Down = Elephant, elephant stomp
and Neutral is back to Shantae and a fireball attack

However it wouldnt be fun to HAVE to preform an attack inorder to change so how i though it would work is if you hold the input you transform and attack, if you do the input as if it was a "Special Smash" you transform without attacking,


Now here where the "Half Movesets" come in, mirroring how they operate in her base games, the transformations have a limited moveset, but that limited moveset is VERY good at what it wants to do.

Harpy is obviously amazing in the air, so she can preform Air smashes (Think Robin), has multiple jumps, however, if shes on the ground she only has 1 weak attack, doesn't matter if you smash or tilt or what, its the same weak attack.

Elephant is the opposite, super good on the ground, slow but powerful, VERY STRONG SMASH ATTACKS, but any attack preformed in the air is a weak trunk slap, only transformation that can grab.

and Monkey is fast and agile, can't smash, focuses on weak low knock back moves,

The only thing i dont like about this is it removes the need to dance to transform. my only idea to fix that is her taunts are her dance moves, and if you perform the dance inputs from the first game her transformation is buffed for a short time.

The problem with trying to implement these kinds of transformations as a central mechanic is that it actually would infringe on another character's niche, Pokemon Trainer, in a way that's hard to avoid negative comparisons. How do you convince someone to use a character who transforms into half-characters or less over one who switches between three full ones? Not to mention, it'd be really hard to balance them. Little Mac is powerful AND fast on the ground, and he's still awful, so just imagine how useful a slow, fat version of him would be (your elephant). By contrast, a strong air game is so powerful in Smash that it pretty much makes Harpy the dominant transformation no matter what, to the point where I'd see players doing almost nothing but switching between it and human for the ground game (monkey just being used for mobility jukes). And I've already seen this happen in those Crusade videos.

I'm not exaggerating when I say Harpy is pretty much the only transformation ''character'' that Shantae needs, with all the others best left to just being used as specific moves or actions. That's why I prefer the idea of a well-rounded base character that uses timed dances to tweak parts of her moveset to suit her needs, without completely replacing it and forcing too many unnecessary extra steps.

There has been a bunch of these Doomguy lesson art pieces as of late, and I am glad Shantae was among one of them.

I expect something like this to happen in that fan-made Captain N web video if it gets made, with it's stinger.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ter_has_been_cancelled_relaunching_mid_august

So, even the SK board game has been delayed. Can't help but feel pity for the IP at this point.

Here is some neat fan art of Shantae getting a gun lesson from Doomguy.
*snip*
There has been a bunch of these Doomguy lesson art pieces as of late, and I am glad Shantae was among one of them.

With any luck, he won't be treated as a flavor of the month if he ultimately doesn't make it in.

 

[Dukefire]

Honestly, with what has been happening to Shovel Knight, I really do feel bad for him. Especially since he is the poster boy for Indie due to his many appearences on games

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Honestly, with what has been happening to Shovel Knight, I really do feel bad for him. Especially since he is the poster boy for Indie due to his many appearences on games

I think it would be a honor for a Indie developer to receive a Assist Trophy of their character even if they are not playable. Look how happy Yacht Club Games was seeing Shovel Knight their creation as a Assist Trophy:

 

[Dukefire]

In the end, even if shantae doesn't become a fighter in Smash, she still can go strong on her series.