• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all


Results are only viewable after voting.

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,952
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
WF originally wanted RR to be the first part of an episodic Shantae installment (ala Final Fantasy IV: The After Years), so it would have felt less odd if PC was still a part of that plan.
Please unfold this a bit more, as I don't understand your logic as to it being less odd, unless your comment is that they were trying to change the mechanics of Shantae and rebrand her in some way, and with some purpose.

That said, I also find it odd how Final Fantasy works. In terms of its marketing and evolution, I understand how it moved from numbers to subnumbers, but when I read them, I still see, "Final Fantasy IV: Seven."
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
19,378
Location
The Western side of Pop Star.
Please unfold this a bit more, as I don't understand your logic as to it being less odd, unless your comment is that they were trying to change the mechanics of Shantae and rebrand her in some way, and with some purpose.

That said, I also find it odd how Final Fantasy works. In terms of its marketing and evolution, I understand how it moved from numbers to subnumbers, but when I read them, I still see, "Final Fantasy IV: Seven."
Basically, if PC was the final part of the trilogy, the transition to the gear gameplay would have felt a bit smoother. I mean, imagine an installment where Shantae lacked her powers, but didn't get to the gear yet.

I'm not saying they would have changed her gameplay forever, just temporarily for the sake of the story. It's like how Wario Land changed aspects of Wario's gameplay every so often before going dormant. Kept things fresh.
 
Last edited:

ChirimoyaX

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Deepest darkest Peru
Hey y'all! I may have disappeared for a while (been busy with my studies), but I want to let you know I still support Shantae for Smash, and I'm really excited about Shantae 5!
Oh, and I made some art for the ocassion (I already shared it on my instagram, but I wanted to share it here too because I really liked how it turned out)!.

Shantae5_HalfGenieAllHero_CLEAR.jpg
 

Parallel_Falchion

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,336
If they ever decide they want to, they will.
While I still hold that Linkle is a Link, this is all that ever really needed to be said on the matter. If they don't, they may give some other excuses, but it will ultimately just be because they didn't want to.
 

RetrogamerMax

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
12,221
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
While going on the topic of the Shantae games, I got two questions to ask you guys:

1. Which Shantae game do you think is the best? I've only played Pirate's Curse and Half-Genie Hero so I've never played the original and Risky's Revenge.

2. Do you think we will finally see Shantae's mother in the upcoming Shantae 5?
 

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,158
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
While going on the topic of the Shantae games, I got two questions to ask you guys:

1. Which Shantae game do you think is the best? I've only played Pirate's Curse and Half-Genie Hero so I've never played the original and Risky's Revenge.

2. Do you think we will finally see Shantae's mother in the upcoming Shantae 5?
I haven't played Risky's Revenge either, but Pirate's Curse and Half-Genie Hero seem commonly agreed to be the best, with the favourite between the two coming down to personal preference; pure metroidvania fans and story lovers likely prefer Pirate's Curse, while those who seek more action platoforming and humour edges Half-Genie Hero over, especially with it's added modes. That variety I feel pushes the latter over Pirate's Curse for me. I replay it a lot more at least. The first two games are fine but have notable issues: original has archaic mechanics like screen crunch, vulnerable dances and instant-death hazards, and Risky's Revenge is really short.

Seeing Shantae's mom is a possibility, but Wayforward could also be really commited to the status quo of Shantae having a goal that always seems just out of reach. Hopefully that genie messenger's comment about her leaving a "gift" on Shantae's heart means more than it seems... a magic connection perhaps?
 

RetrogamerMax

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
12,221
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
I haven't played Risky's Revenge either, but Pirate's Curse and Half-Genie Hero seem commonly agreed to be the best, with the favourite between the two coming down to personal preference; pure metroidvania fans and story lovers likely prefer Pirate's Curse, while those who seek more action platoforming and humour edges Half-Genie Hero over, especially with it's added modes. That variety I feel pushes the latter over Pirate's Curse for me. I replay it a lot more at least. The first two games are fine but have notable issues: original has archaic mechanics like screen crunch, vulnerable dances and instant-death hazards, and Risky's Revenge is really short.

Seeing Shantae's mom is a possibility, but Wayforward could also be really commited to the status quo of Shantae having a goal that always seems just out of reach. Hopefully that genie messenger's comment about her leaving a "gift" on Shantae's heart means more than it seems... a magic connection perhaps?
I like Pirate's Curse more than Half-Genie Hero, but I have still not yet played the other two games.

I believe for how long they have teased Shantae's mom in the games, she will probably be in a future title or probably the last game if WayForward actually is planning to end the series in the future.
 
Last edited:

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,158
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
I like Pirate's Curse more than Half-Genie Hero, but I have still not yet played the other two games.

I believe for how long they have teased Shantae's mom in the games, she will probably be in a future title or probably the last game if WayForward actually is planning to end the series in the future.
Yeah, OK, let's not get ahead of ourselves. This isn't like Mother where the creator had a clear defined plan for the story arc to end in three games. Shantae is Wayforward's biggest and main fracnhise; they don't have much else to fall back on if they were to end it. The first three games had a continuous story arc, but while Half-Genie Hero technically follows that it's main story is constructed to stand on it's own for those who did not play those earlier games, kind of like Metroid Prime... imagine if Prime 4 got the multiple playable characters treatment just like Half-Genie Hero?
 

zferolie

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
5,002
An interveiw from atlus mentions Joker in smash, and how it was Sakurai who sent them the invitation.

https://www.siliconera.com/2019/04/...witch-13-sentinels-aegis-rims-delay-and-more/

On Joker in Smash:
Hiraoka: “This time, Joker joining Smash Bros. was mainly thanks to Masahiro Sakurai from Sora, Ltd.’s invitation, which led to this partnership. Sakurai-san is a big fan of Persona 5, and we are fans of Smash Bros., so when we received the invitation, we thought, “That’s great!” We’re happy to establish such a great working relationship.”
Read more at https://www.siliconera.com/2019/04/...egis-rims-delay-and-more/#KZfFlpJjRRJ7bztF.99
 

RetrogamerMax

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
12,221
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
Yeah, OK, let's not get ahead of ourselves. This isn't like Mother where the creator had a clear defined plan for the story arc to end in three games. Shantae is Wayforward's biggest and main fracnhise; they don't have much else to fall back on if they were to end it. The first three games had a continuous story arc, but while Half-Genie Hero technically follows that it's main story is constructed to stand on it's own for those who did not play those earlier games, kind of like Metroid Prime... imagine if Prime 4 got the multiple playable characters treatment just like Half-Genie Hero?
I'm not saying they have a plan yet, but just saying maybe they're thinking about it.
 
Last edited:

Dukefire

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
4,728
Again, most of the stuff for Smash Bros Ultimate is Air Locked tight since 4 had so much information leaked to ruin the surprises.

Lets hope we get some info soon somewhere on April.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
19,378
Location
The Western side of Pop Star.
Yeah, OK, let's not get ahead of ourselves. This isn't like Mother where the creator had a clear defined plan for the story arc to end in three games. Shantae is Wayforward's biggest and main fracnhise; they don't have much else to fall back on if they were to end it. The first three games had a continuous story arc, but while Half-Genie Hero technically follows that it's main story is constructed to stand on it's own for those who did not play those earlier games, kind of like Metroid Prime... imagine if Prime 4 got the multiple playable characters treatment just like Half-Genie Hero?
I'm not saying they have a plan yet, but just saying maybe they're thinking about it.
I guess my One Piece analogy I brought up earlier (about us being in it for the long haul) isn't far off, seeing how that series also has a goal to reach that hasn't remotely been seen by anyone yet.

Besides, if she found her folks now, it'd be like "okay, so what then after that?". There needs to be some sort of mystery to maintain and keep fans hooked.

Doesn't help that they pretty much haven't done much, if anything, for their other IPs these days.

An interveiw from atlus mentions Joker in smash, and how it was Sakurai who sent them the invitation.

https://www.siliconera.com/2019/04/...witch-13-sentinels-aegis-rims-delay-and-more/
Hmm, very interesting. So clearly Sakurai had to have asked about a spirit inclusion, at least.
 

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,158
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
I guess my One Piece analogy I brought up earlier (about us being in it for the long haul) isn't far off, seeing how that series also has a goal to reach that hasn't remotely been seen by anyone yet.

Besides, if she found her folks now, it'd be like "okay, so what then after that?". There needs to be some sort of mystery to maintain and keep fans hooked.

Doesn't help that they pretty much haven't done much, if anything, for their other IPs these days.



Hmm, very interesting. So clearly Sakurai had to have asked about a spirit inclusion, at least.
There's a few key differences though. One Piece is a total mystery as to what it is and Luffy vehemently denies any info on it until he sees it for himself. By contrast we know all about the where (Genie Realm) and why (recovering magic and protecting Sequin Land from otherworldly threats) of Shantae's mother; the only question left is what she looks like, and I doubt learning that would kill all tension for future games. I expect something more like Kirby with a new huge threat almost every game. It's not like Shantae spends all of her free time looking for ways to reach her mother.

Atlus said something interesting about forming a good working relationship with Sakurai just for allowing Joker to appear in Smash. I wonder if other guest-star companies like Ubisoft and Wayforward feel the same way?
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
19,378
Location
The Western side of Pop Star.
There's a few key differences though. One Piece is a total mystery as to what it is and Luffy vehemently denies any info on it until he sees it for himself. By contrast we know all about the where (Genie Realm) and why (recovering magic and protecting Sequin Land from otherworldly threats) of Shantae's mother; the only question left is what she looks like, and I doubt learning that would kill all tension for future games. I expect something more like Kirby with a new huge threat almost every game. It's not like Shantae spends all of her free time looking for ways to reach her mother.

Atlus said something interesting about forming a good working relationship with Sakurai just for allowing Joker to appear in Smash. I wonder if other guest-star companies like Ubisoft and Wayforward feel the same way?
In any case, I wonder how they'll keep things interesting without being directionless. It's only just recently that people realised that Kumazaki implied to plan things out for Kirby, for the sake of comparison.

That said, Ubi I'm sure would be pleased, seeing how Nintendo higher-ups paid them a visit for Starlink's Switch version. WF is the big question mark in this regard.
 

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,158
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
In any case, I wonder how they'll keep things interesting without being directionless. It's only just recently that people realised that Kumazaki implied to plan things out for Kirby, for the sake of comparison.

That said, Ubi I'm sure would be pleased, seeing how Nintendo higher-ups paid them a visit for Starlink's Switch version. WF is the big question mark in this regard.
Spin-offs. Perhaps ones that star different characters, like an anti-heroic Risky. Or introduce a new recurring antagonist that isn't an elaborate joke like Holly.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
19,378
Location
The Western side of Pop Star.
Spin-offs. Perhaps ones that star different characters, like an anti-heroic Risky. Or introduce a new recurring antagonist that isn't an elaborate joke like Holly.
Honestly I don't know if they'll ever get to do those, even if their other properties have to remain dormant in the process to afford doing this. Maybe we'll have a better idea of what's next going forward from here, once 5 releases.
 

RetrogamerMax

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
12,221
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
I guess my One Piece analogy I brought up earlier (about us being in it for the long haul) isn't far off, seeing how that series also has a goal to reach that hasn't remotely been seen by anyone yet.
I didn't know you were a follow Strawhat. I love One Piece, it's my favorite manga/anime of all time. :)

There's a few key differences though. One Piece is a total mystery as to what it is and Luffy vehemently denies any info on it until he sees it for himself.
Potential:
It's theorist by the One Piece community that the island of Raftel is the lost Ancient Kingdom and that the Rio Poneglyph and the 3 Ancient Weapons are all there on that island.
 
Last edited:

EarlTamm

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
7,348
I found some more art on Twitter(Specifically the Shantae hashtag).
There was a problem fetching the tweet
There was a problem fetching the tweet
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I want Shantae to have a dance off with Wario. Just look at these moves:
 

Biometal

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
405
I---i d-on't wanna change the subject, but...
"Getta load of this!" [Dr. Eggman's voice]

Flees out.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
19,378
Location
The Western side of Pop Star.
I didn't know you were a follow Strawhat. I love One Piece, it's my favorite manga/anime of all time. :)



Potential:
It's theorist by the One Piece community that the island of Raftel is the lost Ancient Kingdom and that the Rio Poneglyph and the 3 Ancient Weapons are all there on that island.
Only casual/fleeting, though I do respect those willing to do commitment for that series, seemingly endless it is.

I want Shantae to have a dance off with Wario. Just look at these moves:
Even taunt-offs would be enough, really. :p

I found some more art on Twitter(Specifically the Shantae hashtag).
There was a problem fetching the tweet
There was a problem fetching the tweet
The second one would make for a good "consider the following" pic.
 
Last edited:

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,158
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
I've been thinking about the similarities between Demon's Crest and the first Shantae; with the former having released several years earlier, it makes you wonder if Capcom influenced the game beyond wanting some difficulty in it?
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
19,378
Location
The Western side of Pop Star.
I've been thinking about the similarities between Demon's Crest and the first Shantae; with the former having released several years earlier, it makes you wonder if Capcom influenced the game beyond wanting some difficulty in it?
I could see that. Ghosts 'N Goblins on the GBC also had a zoomed-in view of the playfield (and that port was done by a Western studio, no less).
 
Last edited:

Dukefire

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
4,728
Nothing major news to Shantae, but Pirate's Curse has received an update.

Though, like an update means anything.
 

Mental Surge

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
143
Location
Canada
NNID
GisR FTG
3DS FC
4098-5877-7114
You can add me to the supporter list. I thought I was already on it. or maybe it was the previous thread w/e.

Anyway as much I would love for Shantae to be in the game above all other potential newcomers and how much I think she deserves to be in the game and how great of a fit she would be in smash, I don't think she will be added for the simple fact that she is a western character and Nintendo seems against adding western characters to the roster. I think Diddy is technically the only one right now (and even that's a stretch because Donkey Kong is an eastern franchise).

I will say though that I am surprised that she has a sticker. That means that at the very least Nintendo acknowledged her in smash. One thing that's intriguing is that she does not have an assist trophy but shovel knight does MAYBE there's a chance. But it's probably just wishful thinking.
 
Last edited:

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,158
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
You can add me to the supporter list. I thought I was already on it. or maybe it was the previous thread w/e.

Anyway as much I would love for Shantae to be in the game above all other potential newcomers and how much I think she deserves to be in the game and how great of a fit she would be in smash, I don't think she will be added for the simple fact that she is a western character and Nintendo seems against adding western characters to the roster. I think Diddy is technically the only one right now (and even that's a stretch because Donkey Kong is an eastern franchise).

I will say though that I am surprised that she has a sticker. That means that at the very least Nintendo acknowledged her in smash. One thing that's intriguing is that she does not have an assist trophy but shovel knight does MAYBE there's a chance. But it's probably just wishful thinking.
If you consider charaters from Rare-developed games western then you can't forget King K. Rool who was created at the same time as Diddy. Then there's Dark Samus from Metroid Prime developed by American Retro Studios.

There's no anti-western bias, otherwise characters like Rayman and Shovel Knight would not appear period. It's just happenstance that most franchises that are historically important to Nintendo (and not owned by them), which is one of the primary focuses of Smash, belong to japanese companies. This isn't a problem for Shantae whose games have been exclusive to Nintendo platforms for quite a while (and the first game still is). Plus, even if a franchise is technically japan-made, they're still keenly aware of which regions it's more popular in, like Metroid selling better outside of Japan.

But then we have Joker, whose series, let alone his game has yet to really touch Nintendo platforms (unless you consider it a part of Shin Megami). Cloud was a borderline case as though his game specifically hasn't released on Nintendo platforms until very recently, his series has history with the company and he's massively popular. There is just no rule beyond being a video game character and the whims of Sakurai, and it's kind of baffling to call yourself a supporter when you also think the character has no chance... aren't you just causing yourself suffering doing that?
 
Last edited:

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,158
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
I know, right? WF completely stopped using their signature sprite style (from their GBC days) after PC.
Well, sprites these days are a deliberate art choice, usually done to invoke retro feelings for classic games. Probably Wayforward doesn't really want the Shantae series to be seen this way. 3D environments in Half-Genie Hero was quite the statement, and even if 5 seems to be going back to 2D ones, they'll probably be more detailed than ever before. They could also feel that they can do more to make characters expressive by moving away from sprites... who knows.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
19,378
Location
The Western side of Pop Star.
Well, sprites these days are a deliberate art choice, usually done to invoke retro feelings for classic games. Probably Wayforward doesn't really want the Shantae series to be seen this way. 3D environments in Half-Genie Hero was quite the statement, and even if 5 seems to be going back to 2D ones, they'll probably be more detailed than ever before. They could also feel that they can do more to make characters expressive by moving away from sprites... who knows.
At any rate, at least Mummy Demastered shows they're not giving up the artform, if they want to do something quick-like as a well-made potboiler, in-between Shantaes. Presumably, anyway.
 

Mental Surge

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
143
Location
Canada
NNID
GisR FTG
3DS FC
4098-5877-7114
If you consider charaters from Rare-developed games western then you can't forget King K. Rool who was created at the same time as Diddy. Then there's Dark Samus from Metroid Prime developed by American Retro Studios.

There's no anti-western bias, otherwise characters like Rayman and Shovel Knight would not appear period. It's just happenstance that most franchises that are historically important to Nintendo (and not owned by them), which is one of the primary focuses of Smash, belong to japanese companies. This isn't a problem for Shantae whose games have been exclusive to Nintendo platforms for quite a while (and the first game still is). Plus, even if a franchise is technically japan-made, they're still keenly aware of which regions it's more popular in, like Metroid selling better outside of Japan.

But then we have Joker, whose series, let alone his game has yet to really touch Nintendo platforms (unless you consider it a part of Shin Megami). Cloud was a borderline case as though his game specifically hasn't released on Nintendo platforms until very recently, his series has history with the company and he's massively popular. There is just no rule beyond being a video game character and the whims of Sakurai, and it's kind of baffling to call yourself a supporter when you also think the character has no chance... aren't you just causing yourself suffering doing that?
Oh wow so 3 side characters in already Eastern established franchises? Sorry but I have had this argument with many, many people and I am convinced that their most definitely is a bias in the roster. And I am going to disagree with you about shovel knight and rayman. If there wasnt a bias then those characters might actually be playable. No, instead we get 'characters' like Wii fit trainer, the dog from duck hunt, unnamed NPC character from animal crossing, etc. There's not a single character from a western franchise that's playable in this game which has a ridiculously huge roster btw. that to me proves their is a massive bias.

yes, there is no rule beyond being a video game character, but clearly there are certain criteria that nintendo or sakurai care about. Not having a SINGLE western franchise character be playable makes that clear. You can try and justify it but the fact is that there is very obviously an eastern bias here. I don't have a problem with their being certain biases and whatnot int he roster but to have it to such an extent where there's not a single western franchise character in the roster is ridiculous to me, especially considering there are so many characters that would fit perfectly in smash. Also not sure why you brought up Joker considering that has nothing to do with Western bias in the roster. if anything that just makes it worse - that they will put characters like cloud in that arent even on Nintendo consoles but they are against putting western franchises in the roster lol.
 
Last edited:

Tybalt: Herbal One

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
68
Oh wow so 3 side characters in already Eastern established franchises? Sorry but I have had this argument with many, many people and I am convinced that their most definitely is a bias in the roster. And I am going to disagree with you about shovel knight and rayman. If there wasnt a bias then those characters might actually be playable. No, instead we get 'characters' like Wii fit trainer, the dog from duck hunt, unnamed NPC character from animal crossing, etc. There's not a single character from a western franchise that's playable in this game which has a ridiculously huge roster btw. that to me proves their is a massive bias.

yes, there is no rule beyond being a video game character, but clearly there are certain criteria that nintendo or sakurai care about. Not having a SINGLE western franchise character be playable makes that clear. You can try and justify it but the fact is that there is very obviously an eastern bias here. I don't have a problem with their being certain biases and whatnot int he roster but to have it to such an extent where there's not a single western franchise character in the roster is ridiculous to me, especially considering there are so many characters that would fit perfectly in smash. Also not sure why you brought up Joker considering that has nothing to do with Western bias in the roster. if anything that just makes it worse - that they will put characters like cloud in that arent even on Nintendo consoles but they are against putting western franchises in the roster lol.
Of course there is a bias. To say there isn't would be foolish as every single person has their own perceptions. My personal thought on it was that the franchises with playable characters are ones that have big notable names. The dog from Duck Hunt is very recognisable to many people thanks to being bundled with Super Mario Bros. Wii Fit Trainer is a big icon of the Wii. Why would they make 3 Wii Fit games (Wii Fit, Wii Fit Plus and Wii Fit U) if it was never successful. The Villager from Animal Crossing is the avatar character, not a nameless NPC. And Animal Crossing is a framchise that is still getting games to this day.

Diddy, K.Rool and Dark Samus all have a big reputation within their respective franchises which is likely why they were added. As to why K.Rool and Dark Samus were only added in ultimate... I have no idea.

As for Cloud and Joker... Cloud is from Final Fantasy. Even if he himself didn't properly appear on a Nintendo console until more recently (Theatrhythm is the earliest I can think of), the Final Fantasy franchise is one that is still strong going to this day (15 main titles and so many, many spinoffs) and Cloud just happens to be a fan favourite of the series (though in my opinion Cloud is only representing himself in smash haha). And Joker has very recently had a massively successful game that has garnered a lot of attention. The Persona and Shin Megami Tensei franchises are quire popular in their niches. With the popularity of Persona 5, Sakurai and his team obviously would be more bias towards it.

Speaking of bias, Sakurai has made it clear that he had a team working on spirits (which to include, the stats, skills and the fights to be associated with them) and the spirit team decided that two spirits to include should be Shantae and Rayman. Maybe this is their own bias and is, in a sense, saying "These characters are just as important as all of our other spirit choices." Ultimately the choice for who is playable lies with Sakurai. Though I feel it is not western bias, and more of a personal and buisness bias (or "what would make a bigger splash?"). The buisness bias is likely why we have echo fighters as well (easier to make than a normal fighter, can market them to certain crowds).

With all that said, I could be completely wrong about the bias arguement. But we've still yet to see who our next 4 fighters will be. Who knows? Maybe one is a western character.
 

Jorichi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
164
Oh wow so 3 side characters in already Eastern established franchises? Sorry but I have had this argument with many, many people and I am convinced that their most definitely is a bias in the roster. And I am going to disagree with you about shovel knight and rayman. If there wasnt a bias then those characters might actually be playable. No, instead we get 'characters' like Wii fit trainer, the dog from duck hunt, unnamed NPC character from animal crossing, etc. There's not a single character from a western franchise that's playable in this game which has a ridiculously huge roster btw. that to me proves their is a massive bias.

yes, there is no rule beyond being a video game character, but clearly there are certain criteria that nintendo or sakurai care about. Not having a SINGLE western franchise character be playable makes that clear. You can try and justify it but the fact is that there is very obviously an eastern bias here. I don't have a problem with their being certain biases and whatnot int he roster but to have it to such an extent where there's not a single western franchise character in the roster is ridiculous to me, especially considering there are so many characters that would fit perfectly in smash. Also not sure why you brought up Joker considering that has nothing to do with Western bias in the roster. if anything that just makes it worse - that they will put characters like cloud in that arent even on Nintendo consoles but they are against putting western franchises in the roster lol.
I personally wouldn't call it biased. While it's true that there are more eastern established franchises in the game I think it's because of completely different reasons as to what you might think. There are many strings attached when trying to add a character Nintendo doesn't own. So besides all the paperwork around the rights of a character and what not, there'd need to be communication. There's a language barrier and timezones to work with. And while that can be worked with, it's still quite the obstacle which makes things fairly difficult, especially when working on a level of quality, scope and speed that they manage to do with Smash.
So to me it looks to be more troublesome to work with a western franchise. On top of that, like Tybalt said, they're aiming for that big splash, that "OMG!"-moment. I can only imagine they'd try to aim to appeal both eastern and western gamers too and eastern games tend to do better in the west then western games do in the east (or at least that's what it feels like to me), making it more likely for eastern well known game icons to appear in smash than western icons.

It might just be as simple as perception though. Look at it from Sakurai's eyes. The man lives in Japan, where the gaming market is probably fairly different, different games are being hyped up there. That's why it's so likely to most that we'll see Erdrick from the DQ series. People over there are going nuts over it compared to the west. And while it's not as big here as it is there, it's most certainly big enough and growing. It'd only nudge up the marketing for DQ in the west more. Seems like another win-win situation for them.

TLDR; There is definitely more characters from eastern franchises, but I wouldn't say it's biased (rather more feasible I guess?). To me it's a mix of perception, convenience and marketing, not just pulling favorites.
That's just how I've looked at the situation though, I haven't looked too much into it.

Looping this back to Shantae though... I don't think she'd make a big splash by herself, but more so for being considered an indie-character. Her moveset potential, growing success in Asia, longer living franchise compared to other indies... etc, makes her one of the best options (in my eyes) if Nintendo did decide to go for that 'indie rep'. And I honestly think Nintendo might go that route since the Switch seems to really embrace indies. Whether or not they'll go for Shantae? I don't know, fingers crossed!

I've been kind of out of the loop on smash in general lately, because not too long ago I've been sucked into 2D animation all thanks to Shantae Half-Genie Hero. So after the announcement of Shantae 5 I just had to try this:
I'll be going back to lurk mode again now though, you guys keep up the great discussions!
 

Dyllybirdy

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
8,847
Location
A sad, sad place... may I have hugs? <3
I personally wouldn't call it biased. While it's true that there are more eastern established franchises in the game I think it's because of completely different reasons as to what you might think. There are many strings attached when trying to add a character Nintendo doesn't own. So besides all the paperwork around the rights of a character and what not, there'd need to be communication. There's a language barrier and timezones to work with. And while that can be worked with, it's still quite the obstacle which makes things fairly difficult, especially when working on a level of quality, scope and speed that they manage to do with Smash.
So to me it looks to be more troublesome to work with a western franchise. On top of that, like Tybalt said, they're aiming for that big splash, that "OMG!"-moment. I can only imagine they'd try to aim to appeal both eastern and western gamers too and eastern games tend to do better in the west then western games do in the east (or at least that's what it feels like to me), making it more likely for eastern well known game icons to appear in smash than western icons.

It might just be as simple as perception though. Look at it from Sakurai's eyes. The man lives in Japan, where the gaming market is probably fairly different, different games are being hyped up there. That's why it's so likely to most that we'll see Erdrick from the DQ series. People over there are going nuts over it compared to the west. And while it's not as big here as it is there, it's most certainly big enough and growing. It'd only nudge up the marketing for DQ in the west more. Seems like another win-win situation for them.

TLDR; There is definitely more characters from eastern franchises, but I wouldn't say it's biased (rather more feasible I guess?). To me it's a mix of perception, convenience and marketing, not just pulling favorites.
That's just how I've looked at the situation though, I haven't looked too much into it.

Looping this back to Shantae though... I don't think she'd make a big splash by herself, but more so for being considered an indie-character. Her moveset potential, growing success in Asia, longer living franchise compared to other indies... etc, makes her one of the best options (in my eyes) if Nintendo did decide to go for that 'indie rep'. And I honestly think Nintendo might go that route since the Switch seems to really embrace indies. Whether or not they'll go for Shantae? I don't know, fingers crossed!

I've been kind of out of the loop on smash in general lately, because not too long ago I've been sucked into 2D animation all thanks to Shantae Half-Genie Hero. So after the announcement of Shantae 5 I just had to try this:
I'll be going back to lurk mode again now though, you guys keep up the great discussions!
Huh, long time no see! ;)

How've you been?
 

Jorichi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
164
Huh, long time no see! ;)

How've you been?
I've been good, better actually! I hope you've been doing good too?
Been out of the speculation of smash quite a bit though, but occasionally checked up on the topic. Glad to see this place is staying active!
I guess the announcement of Shantae 5 gave you guys more fuel for conversation and speculation :p
Hope to see more of that soon, I'm super curious.
 
Top Bottom