Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Kirbeh]

I bet you there would have far more outrage over a character not getting in because of their sexy design than the other way around.

The issue with Mythra, or at least her artwork is that it is very easy to come to the conclusion that she actually isn't wearing anything at all underneath, regardless of whether that's true or not. Whereas with Tron Bonne and Juri you can easily see (and unless there's some true bare-legged art that I don't know of, they both have leggings like Mythra does now anyway).

I guess Cammy is pretty much the absolute limit on how much leg you can show on a female, but honestly it feels like a core part of her design. Her fighting style is all about fast movements and acrobatics, and she's very buff too so it's likely difficult to find good-fitting clothes while retaining all of her mobility.

I highly doubt people would be up in arms over the absence of Juri and Tron Bonne as Spirits. Many are surprised they're even in the game. Not that I'm complaining as I adore both characters, but I don't think being left out of the jpeg party would be a big deal to their fans when their inclusion wasn't an expected turn of events to begin with. That only works if we knew of their inclusion beforehand only for them to be cut from the final release. Then I could see how that might earn a lot of people's ire.

I don't really buy that reasoning with Mythra either tbh. Why would you come to that conclusion? I just don't see how you get to that point unless you're looking for it.

"Her dress is short. What if she's not wearing anything underneath it!"

Seems like a bit of an awkward leap/assumption to make imo.

It's perfectly understandable if say, they wanted to avoid potential up skirt shots on her model if trophies were still a thing or she got in as an AT or Fighter, but on a simple image file where that's not possible?

As for Juri and Tron, sure they're wearing leggings, but leggings or not they both feature instances of things that could be potentially seen as more explicit.

Juri has leggings but they're see through, exposing her underwear. Tron Bonne's aren't see through, but her dress is very short and what she wears beneath is more or less like a swimsuit leading to a perpetual up skirt of sorts. This is unlike Myhtra's which were made a solid black that would presumably cover everything as needed. Except there's no actual need to cover anything as the angle in her image doesn't expose the inner thigh/crotch area, which is exactly the case for both Tron and Juri.

And lastly if Cammy and the above are the limit then the change to Mythra was wholly unnecessary. If Cammy "Skintight Leotard, No Pants Combo" White is acceptable then Mythra shouldn't have been a problem.

There's no need to try to explain away Cammy's lack of pants either. It doesn't work out either way given that the in universe uniforms for the Dolls exist. She could easily have a full body suit (or leggings!) to cover her legs and buttocks, though that's an entirely different discussion.

------------------------

tl;dr -

Have I typed up way too much about a change made to a jpeg of a character? Yes
Does it actually change my enjoyment of the game? No
Is the censorship inconsistent though? Yes, which is the point I was trying to make and what honestly bothers me more than the actual change.

Either way, I still think Pyra's outfit is a lot more suggestive yet that one's a-ok.

Anyway, I've derailed the thread quite enough with that so I'll stop there.

 

[meleebrawler]

I highly doubt people would be up in arms over the absence of Juri and Tron Bonne as Spirits. Many are surprised they're even in the game. Not that I'm complaining as I adore both characters, but I don't think being left out of the jpeg party would be a big deal to their fans when their inclusion wasn't an expected turn of events to begin with. That only works if we knew of their inclusion beforehand only for them to be cut from the final release. Then I could see how that might earn a lot of people's ire.

I don't really buy that reasoning with Mythra either tbh. Why would you come to that conclusion? I just don't see how you get to that point unless you're looking for it.

"Her dress is short. What if she's not wearing anything underneath it!"

Seems like a bit of an awkward leap/assumption to make imo.

It's perfectly understandable if say, they wanted to avoid potential up skirt shots on her model if trophies were still a thing or she got in as an AT or Fighter, but on a simple image file where that's not possible?

As for Juri and Tron, sure they're wearing leggings, but leggings or not they both feature instances of things that could be potentially seen as more explicit.

Juri has leggings but they're see through, exposing her underwear. Tron Bonne's aren't see through, but her dress is very short and what she wears beneath is more or less like a swimsuit leading to a perpetual up skirt of sorts. This is unlike Myhtra's which were made a solid black that would presumably cover everything as needed. Except there's no actual need to cover anything as the angle in her image doesn't expose the inner thigh/crotch area, which is exactly the case for both Tron and Juri.

And lastly if Cammy and the above are the limit then the change to Mythra was wholly unnecessary. If Cammy "Skintight Leotard, No Pants Combo" White is acceptable then Mythra shouldn't have been a problem.

There's no need to try to explain away Cammy's lack of pants either. It doesn't work out either way given that the in universe uniforms for the Dolls exist. She could easily have a full body suit (or leggings!) to cover her legs and buttocks, though that's an entirely different discussion.

------------------------

tl;dr -

Have I typed up way too much about a change made to a jpeg of a character? Yes
Does it actually change my enjoyment of the game? No
Is the censorship inconsistent though? Yes, which is the point I was trying to make and what honestly bothers me more than the actual change.

Either way, I still think Pyra's outfit is a lot more suggestive yet that one's a-ok.

Anyway, I've derailed the thread quite enough with that so I'll stop there.

Pyra's outfit is absolutely more concealing than Mythra's. It's just that her assets are hard to hide.

But honestly we don't have much room to be casting the stones considering the character we're supporting here. Just as guilty of "showing underwear" and likely only gets away with the top wear she has due to her smaller cup size.

 

[Deleted member]

Hold up. Shantaes spirit isn't her initial incarnation. it’s the one from hgh. Could they use her gbc form for her Fighter Spirit?

 

[Kirbeh]

Pyra's outfit is absolutely more concealing than Mythra's. It's just that her assets are hard to hide.

But honestly we don't have much room to be casting the stones considering the character we're supporting here. Just as guilty of "showing underwear" and likely only gets away with the top wear she has due to her smaller cup size.

IDK, I guess they're both suggestive in their own way. Just like Mythra's dress, Pyra's shorts are definitely on the very short side. Mythra may have an up skirt problem, but Pyra's shorts may as well be underwear. The skin tight black portion on Pyra also looks more form fitting, which adds to why I think she has a more suggestive outfit. I do see the argument for Mythra though given the mini dress/exposed cleavage window combo.

And believe me, I'm not casting stones against any of the previously discussed characters' designs. My criticism was meant only for the censorship which I believe to be unnecessary.

 

[meleebrawler]

IDK, I guess they're both suggestive in their own way. Just like Mythra's dress, Pyra's shorts are definitely on the very short side. Mythra may have an up skirt problem, but Pyra's shorts may as well be underwear. The skin tight black portion on Pyra also looks more form fitting, which adds to why I think she has a more suggestive outfit. I do see the argument for Mythra though given the mini dress/exposed cleavage window combo.

And believe me, I'm not casting stones against any of the previously discussed characters' designs. My criticism was meant only for the censorship which I believe to be unnecessary.

Sometimes I wonder if the reason really is mainly censorship. The timing of them revealing it as a downloadable costume in XB2 seems to imply they wanted people to grow accustomed to it before seeing it in Smash, that is if leaks didn't beat them to it... we all know the cleavage window was obvious, but maybe they felt the need to add the leggings afterwards not to censor her more, but because they felt her design was less cohesive with bare legs but no cleavage, or just plain thought black leggings looked better after some thinking? I find it gives more of a parallel with Pyra and her own black "leather" under her red armor.

 

[Kirbeh]

Sometimes I wonder if the reason really is mainly censorship. The timing of them revealing it as a downloadable costume in XB2 seems to imply they wanted people to grow accustomed to it before seeing it in Smash, that is if leaks didn't beat them to it... we all know the cleavage window was obvious, but maybe they felt the need to add the leggings afterwards not to censor her more, but because they felt her design was less cohesive with bare legs but no cleavage, or just plain thought black leggings looked better after some thinking? I find it gives more of a parallel with Pyra and her own black "leather" under her red armor.

It was definitely intended as censorship otherwise it'd be an extremely random and arbitrary change (and I personally still think as much.) While I wish it hadn't been the case, I also don't dislike Leggings Mythra, I think they look good and as you said, I hadn't even considered that adding black to her outfit helps match up with Pyra.

The actual changes were handled well imo, my issue was the fact that they bothered changing her at all. Whenever possible I'd like for characters to remain as they are. If changes need to happen to keep the desired rating like with Bayo then it can't be helped. My gripe was changing her when other similar cases were left alone. As I said, it's just really inconsistent and makes it seem like it was done on a whim. If you're going to censor it better be for good reason.

I've gone on about long enough though. Perhaps a change of topics is in order?

 

[meleebrawler]

It was definitely intended as censorship otherwise it'd be an extremely random and arbitrary change (and I personally still think as much.) While I wish it hadn't been the case, I also don't dislike Leggings Mythra, I think they look good and as you said, I hadn't even considered that adding black to her outfit helps match up with Pyra.

The actual changes were handled well imo, my issue was the fact that they bothered changing her at all. Whenever possible I'd like for characters to remain as they are. If changes need to happen to keep the desired rating like with Bayo then it can't be helped. My gripe was changing her when other similar cases were left alone. As I said, it's just really inconsistent and makes it seem like it was done on a whim. If you're going to censor it better be for good reason.

I've gone on about long enough though. Perhaps a change of topics is in order?

Have another Sakurai interview:

Key point of interest for us relating to spirits around 1:55, there was a team in development dedicated to researching and including spirits, and Sakurai considers the collaboration between different franchises "extremely valuable".

 

[Wademan94]

Hold up. Shantaes spirit isn't her initial incarnation. it’s the one from hgh. Could they use her gbc form for her Fighter Spirit?

I mean they could just swap out the artwork on her initial spirit or apparently use the Smash render, but if for some reason that’s not an option, I think either PC or RR design would work better.

 

[EarlTamm]

I mean they could just swap out the artwork on her initial spirit or apparently use the Smash render, but if for some reason that’s not an option, I think either PC or RR design would work better.

Cloud does use his own Smash artwork for his spirit, but that is likely just due to Square stinginess, which is not a problem with Wayforward.

 

[Yellowlord]

Well guys: I'm actually back now after returning from Japan and unlocking everyone on the roster for Smash Ultimate. Here's to hoping we get a miracle through DLC and Shantae shows up as playable.

 

[Shinuto]

Well guys: I'm actually back now after returning from Japan and unlocking everyone on the roster for Smash Ultimate. Here's to hoping we get a miracle through DLC and Shantae shows up as playable.

Bandanna Dee is a spirit if you dont know.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean they could just swap out the artwork on her initial spirit or apparently use the Smash render, but if for some reason that’s not an option, I think either PC or RR design would work better.

That’s what I’m saying

That the hgh wasn’t her initial design so her fighter design is either those 3 designs she has

 

[Yellowlord]

Bandanna Dee is a spirit if you dont know.

Oh yeah, I know: despite that, I still feel Bandanna Dee is a viable candidate if not one of the most viable if Nintendo is trying to market games. Even if it's not for this wave, there could be more waves afterwards, so I'm not giving up hope on that.

Either way, my apologies on not adding any supporters as of recent: is there anyone in particular I might of missed or that I might of missed from other people's posts that need to be added?

 

[Wademan94]

That’s what I’m saying

That the hgh wasn’t her initial design so her fighter design is either those 3 designs she has

I was saying that they could just swap the current art out from her existing spirit to her Fighter Spirit and put in another design for her current Spirit, that way they don’t have to force themselves to be limited.

 

[Luigifan18]

I was saying that they could just swap the current art out from her existing spirit to her Fighter Spirit and put in another design for her current Spirit, that way they don’t have to force themselves to be limited.

But that would be confusing.

 

[RockOfMind]

Oh yeah, I know: despite that, I still feel Bandanna Dee is a viable candidate if not one of the most viable if Nintendo is trying to market games. Even if it's not for this wave, there could be more waves afterwards, so I'm not giving up hope on that.

Either way, my apologies on not adding any supporters as of recent: is there anyone in particular I might of missed or that I might of missed from other people's posts that need to be added?

I know I haven't been added yet, and that was a month ago. But you were busy so that's alright.

 

[Wademan94]

But that would be confusing.

I mean they’d also change their the name of the Spirit too, like in parentheses add the game the artwork is from or the costume name, they’d have to anyway to differentiate her original Spirit from her Fighter Spirit.

 

[Deleted member]

I was saying that they could just swap the current art out from her existing spirit to her Fighter Spirit and put in another design for her current Spirit, that way they don’t have to force themselves to be limited.

Or they can rename it shantae(hgh)

 

[Wademan94]

Spoiler: Another Sonic poster has been leaked

Not gonna lie, he actually doesn’t look too bad here. Not excellent but I think this could work, definitely feel better than I did with the last poster.

Or they can rename it shantae(hgh)

Uh yeah I talked about renaming in the post above. They could do that if they base her model and Fighter Spirit from a different design, I’m personally hoping they go the route I’m talking about and base her actual model off her HGH design and replace/rename the art in her current spirit to use for her Fighter Spirit.

 

[meleebrawler]

Spoiler: Another Sonic poster has been leaked

View attachment 182830
Not gonna lie, he actually doesn’t look too bad here. Not excellent but I think this could work, definitely feel better than I did with the last poster.

Uh yeah I talked about renaming in the post above. They could do that if they base her model and Fighter Spirit from a different design, I’m personally hoping they go the route I’m talking about and base her actual model off her HGH design and replace/rename the art in her current spirit to use for her Fighter Spirit.

Probably don't even need to go that far... just using a different pose from the same artstyle would likely suffice.

 

[Luigifan18]

Spoiler: Another Sonic poster has been leaked

View attachment 182830
Not gonna lie, he actually doesn’t look too bad here. Not excellent but I think this could work, definitely feel better than I did with the last poster.

I'm waiting to hear of how Chris-chan reacts...

 

[Deleted member]

Just to let everyone know that if there is an indie rep and it’s not her then don’t loose hope because there are no rules for only one indie rep because we have 3 PlayStation reps

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Just to let everyone know that if there is an indie rep and it’s not her then don’t loose hope because there are no rules for only one indie rep because we have 3 PlayStation reps

What if it's Quote? People sleep hard on him since he shows up in Blade Strangers with Curly.

That, and I get the feeling that each DLC character for this pass will break one of the fanbase's preconceived notions as to who gets in or not.

 

[Deleted member]

What if it's Quote? People sleep hard on him since he shows up in Blade Strangers with Curly.

That, and I get the feeling that each DLC character for this pass will break one of the fanbase's preconceived notions as to who gets in or not.

He hasent had a new game in a decade and do you see Nintendo doing lots of stuff with him? And tbh I haven’t seen any quote for smash stuff lately. Have you?

And how is this gonna affect us? Again There are no rules for how many indie reps get in.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

He hasent had a new game in a decade and do you see Nintendo doing lots of stuff with him? And tbh I haven’t seen any quote for smash stuff lately. Have you?

And how is this gonna affect us? Again There are no rules for how many indie reps get in.

His game does get updated rereleases constantly, that's something.

Just a simple hypothesis otherwise.

 

[zferolie]

Spoiler: Another Sonic poster has been leaked

View attachment 182830
Not gonna lie, he actually doesn’t look too bad here. Not excellent but I think this could work, definitely feel better than I did with the last poster.

Uh yeah I talked about renaming in the post above. They could do that if they base her model and Fighter Spirit from a different design, I’m personally hoping they go the route I’m talking about and base her actual model off her HGH design and replace/rename the art in her current spirit to use for her Fighter Spirit.

Ok that was not as bad as it could have been. Not hreat, but not god awful...

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler: Another Sonic poster has been leaked

View attachment 182830
Not gonna lie, he actually doesn’t look too bad here. Not excellent but I think this could work, definitely feel better than I did with the last poster.

Uh yeah I talked about renaming in the post above. They could do that if they base her model and Fighter Spirit from a different design, I’m personally hoping they go the route I’m talking about and base her actual model off her HGH design and replace/rename the art in her current spirit to use for her Fighter Spirit.

What?

 

[Wademan94]

View attachment 182867

What?

What are you confused about?

 

[Deleted member]

What are you confused about?

The original concept for sonic in that poster

Why would they scrap that?

 

[meleebrawler]

At the end of the day, we know how the spirits were chosen: a team dedicated to finding and selecting them. And while it's one thing to dig deep in Nintendo's catalogue, or those of represented third parties, it's another to choose ones like Shantae that aren't in any other way. Shovel Knight being an assist likely obliged having a few spirits dedicated to his series. But they had no such thing for Shantae. They could have omitted her entirely and not too many people would have batted an eye. But among all the non-represented indies and third-parties they could have chosen, Shantae was the one they landed on, alongside Rayman. Their reasons may be forever unknown (did they just happen to be fans? Did they see her history with Nintendo being significant like we do?), but whatever the case may be they now have a deeper understanding of her series that can't hurt her chances any.

 

[Deleted member]

At the end of the day, we know how the spirits were chosen: a team dedicated to finding and selecting them. And while it's one thing to dig deep in Nintendo's catalogue, or those of represented third parties, it's another to choose ones like Shantae that aren't in any other way. Shovel Knight being an assist likely obliged having a few spirits dedicated to his series. But they had no such thing for Shantae. They could have omitted her entirely and not too many people would have batted an eye. But among all the non-represented indies and third-parties they could have chosen, Shantae was the one they landed, alongside Rayman. Their reasons may be forever unknown (did they just happen to be fans? Did they see her history with Nintendo being significant like we do?), but whatever the case may be they now have a deeper understanding of her series that can't hurt her chances any.

You sir earned this

 

[Hadokeyblade]

just had a highly unlikely but rather depressing thought.

What if one of the reasons we won't get a new smash game for nearly a decade is because Nintendo hope that fandoms like Golden Sun and Shantae move on to something else and stop pestering them to add those characters to the game?

I know that's an incredibly unlikely reason but it wouldn't really surprise me.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

just had a highly unlikely but rather depressing thought.

What if one of the reasons we won't get a new smash game for nearly a decade is because Nintendo hope that fandoms like Golden Sun and Shantae move on to something else and stop pestering them to add those characters to the game?

I know that's an incredibly unlikely reason but it wouldn't really surprise me.

I don't think they're that petty. It's like thinking characters that aren't in the game as spirits are hated or treated with complete indifference by the devs. It'd be odd to treat a specific indie fandom that way when the Nindies program has been doing some good for them. This isn't Konami.

Besides, the only reason why we only get one new entry per console is that besides tradition, Sakurai puts so much work into them that they don't really necessitate updated rereleases like for something such as Street Fighter games.

 

[Shinuto]

just had a highly unlikely but rather depressing thought.

What if one of the reasons we won't get a new smash game for nearly a decade is because Nintendo hope that fandoms like Golden Sun and Shantae move on to something else and stop pestering them to add those characters to the game?

I know that's an incredibly unlikely reason but it wouldn't really surprise me.

that is unbelievably stupid to think. Thats like "cut off the nose to spite the face" times a 1000.

 

[Moderately obsessed]

just had a highly unlikely but rather depressing thought.

What if one of the reasons we won't get a new smash game for nearly a decade is because Nintendo hope that fandoms like Golden Sun and Shantae move on to something else and stop pestering them to add those characters to the game?

I know that's an incredibly unlikely reason but it wouldn't really surprise me.

He said he hopes there won't be one for a decade. Doodz exhausted (according to every third post I see telling Nintendo to give Sakurai a break). It could absolutely be sooner if Nintendo wants and a new system comes out.
if anything, they're slightly annoyed at people telling them who to put in the game, but we're free advertisement. Games sell a lot better nowadays because their are causes, discussions, and fans in every corner of the internet. Every Smash related video (not even one that's related to her) theres a #shantaeforsmashDLC (there's 2 forms of advertisement right there). I wouldn't be surprised if you can find a # about smash on *******.

 

[logicandreason]

So after nearly 100% world of light (ending was great, but not worth all those fights) I have come to the conclusion that spirits mean nothing in terms of dlc character deconfirmation, as inanimate objects are spirits. With at least 10 years (hopefully) until the next smash, that leaves the possibility of at least 5 fighters passes. Its possible for shantae to be in at least one of them as a unique fighter. Though with some modifications she could even become a chrom/dark pit like echo of zelda. In less speculation news, hers the cast talking about why kirby is the best.

For the longest time, I've heard the question asked over and over, who IS the strongest of the fighters? Admittedly, I don't think there is one as power levels are LOL, but lets see what the fighters themselves think! #SmashUltimate pic.twitter.com/oQcGqsPbAJ

— Neogandwatch (Comms Open) (@Neogandwatch) December 6, 2018

 

[Deleted member]

I hate it when people make these rules about smash like spirits deconfirm,AT deconfirm,no playable indies,only 2 series from a 3rd party publisher.
I just hate it I’m gonna say that spirits don’t deconfirm plus sakurai never said that

What I’m trying to say is people are making fan made rules which are not real and we must ignore them

Also I discovered luma is a equitable spirit while Rosalina is a fighter spirit just by herself

Also has anyone noticed fighting moves are equitable spirits too?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

To be fair in the original game and watch games you could say that those different attacks were different characters entirely.

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair in the original game and watch games you could say that those different attacks were different characters entirely.

But it’s still him

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's fair to assume that franchise mascots like Shantae are in the game for a reason, and a positive one at that.

Sakurai's recent interview has him going on about how his team decided what Spirits to put into the game, and they specifically looked for franchises that had a major impact on the video game industry.

So I would find it more than likely that the Smash dev team finds Shantae in a positive light, and that they don't make her playable specifically to tell us "nah she dumb, ain't happening".

That said, the whole argument that a couple of PNG files with stat-boosting properties are enough to deconfirm any character within the game is just kinda... oddly desperate? It's either an excuse to say "haha told ya" or "boo Sakurai hates me specifically cause he doesn't make my character only".

It goes both ways on that front really.