Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[GoldLiger]

They could just be strict with who they let use the IP. The only thing that was leading our speculation to a non-compete clause is confirmation bias.

EDIT: An NDA is an NDA. They can’t say anything until Nintendo says so, regardless of if she’s playable or not.

Yeah but an NDA doesn't prevent Shantae from being in other fighting games then. Plus WayForward isn't as strict as you say when it comes to her image(look at the Jammies mode update with the newest transformation she gets).

An NDA may prevent them to talk about her inclusion in Smash(whether an playable or an AT) but it doesn't prevent them from putting her in other fighters that she is highly requested. The only way she can't be in those is due to a stricter None Compete Clause that would prevent her from being in any other fighting games for now. That is the one agreement that makes the most sense for this situation.

 

[EarlTamm]

They could just be strict with who they let use the IP. The only thing that was leading our speculation to a non-compete clause is confirmation bias.

EDIT: An NDA is an NDA. They can’t say anything until Nintendo says so, regardless of if she’s playable or not.

But they arnt strict with there IP, we know that. Sure, she may not be in as many things as Shovel Knight, but she's not far behind. And heck, Indie Pogo is so full of indie characters that they have unknown properties and not even released properties, but not the leading lady? And when there is such a big demand for her in all of these indie fighting games? Wayforward is all about pleasing there fans, but they have seemingly ignored all fighters despite there admiration for Smash saying otherwise on there opinion of the genre.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Yeah but an NDA doesn't prevent Shantae from being in other fighting games then. Plus WayForward isn't as strict as you say when it comes to her image(look at the Jammies mode update with the newest transformation she gets).

An NDA may prevent them to talk about her inclusion in Smash(whether an playable or an AT) but it doesn't prevent them from putting her in other fighters that she is highly requested. The only way she can't be in those is due to a stricter None Compete Clause that would prevent her from being in any other fighting games for now. That is the one agreement that makes the most sense for this situation.

The things involving Blaster Master Zero are somewhat exceptions, since they’re from Inti Creates, which helped with PC and HGH. Consider it less of a crossover and more of an act of comradery to let them use Shantae.

And the other fighting games may not have been deemed beneficial from a business standpoint by WF, like Smash would. Just like with any other company, finances come first, even when the fans are involved.

 

[Shadowknight1]

Honestly, I know it sounds petty, but I really don't want Shantae to be an Assist Trophy. She'd be relegated to hair whipping and MAYBE a transformation depending on how in depth they go. To me, that's wasted potential.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

So now people are giving up on Shantae’s chances as playable? Come on guys, don’t give up now! It’s not over ‘til it’s over! If she was an assist, they would’ve patched her in like Ashley to ‘rip off the bandage’.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Honestly, I know it sounds petty, but I really don't want Shantae to be an Assist Trophy. She'd be relegated to hair whipping and MAYBE a transformation depending on how in depth they go. To me, that's wasted potential.

I agree with all of this, but that’s if they even make her unique. As I said before, they could just have her replace Sable Prince, while completely writing him out of the game.

So now people are giving up on Shantae’s chances as playable? Come on guys, don’t give up now! It’s not over ‘til it’s over! If she was an assist, they would’ve patched her in like Ashley to ‘rip off the bandage’.

I’m sorry, but that’s just blind optimism. What other big-time fighter candidates are on the chopping block for being an AT, besides maybe Bandana Dee? They need to have someone to reveal for November.

 

[GoldLiger]

Exactly stop spreading negativity. We are not like THOSE people. Until she is shown in a AT like fashion we should just support her playable status as much as possible.

 

[EarlTamm]

The things involving Blaster Master Zero are somewhat exceptions, since they’re from Inti Creates, which helped with PC and HGH. Consider it less of a crossover and more of an act of comradery to let them use Shantae.

And the other fighting games may not have been deemed beneficial from a business standpoint by WF, like Smash would. Just like with any other company, finances come first, even when the fans are involved.

Sure, the reason they are working together makes sense, it's the execution that makes the idea of WF caring deeply about Shantae's image questionable. They were not told to make Shantae a buggy with her face on it.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I’m sorry, but that’s just blind optimism. What other big-time fighter candidates are on the chopping block for being an AT, besides maybe Bandana Dee?

It doesn’t matter who’s on the chopping block, there’s only gonna be around 11 more, and we still have more that could be returning. All I’m saying is that you guys seem to have given up overnight! And for what? Shantae is still very likely, we just have to hope that she made the cut.

 

[VizardJeffhog]

Let Sable Prince keep the transforming AT gimmick. We all know who we voted for in the ballot and who has the better international recognition of the two. I don’t see any particular reason they’d switch him out since Ultimate is using For 3DS/Wii U’s very own assets as a foundation.

The only AT we know for sure isn’t coming back is Dark Samus, with Isabelle and Shadow currently in limbo. I’ll comb through the list of unconfirmeds in a bit to see who we have left and what their odds are of coming back.

 

[Shadowknight1]

It doesn’t matter who’s on the chopping block, there’s only gonna be around 11 more, and we still have more that could be returning. All I’m saying is that you guys seem to have given up overnight! And for what? Shantae is still very likely, we just have to hope that she made the cut.

Well, I'm naturally a pessimist these days, buuut...combine WayForward NOT being as silent about Smash as people were saying with what people say Yacht Club Games' behavior was like prior to Shovel Knight's inclusion as an Assist Trophy, and I feel like we have reason to think the playable ship has sailed.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Well, I'm naturally a pessimist these days, buuut...combine WayForward NOT being as silent about Smash as people were saying with what people say Yacht Club Games' behavior was like prior to Shovel Knight's inclusion as an Assist Trophy, and I feel like we have reason to think the playable ship has sailed.

I refuse to let that boat sink until it actually does.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

Exactly stop spreading negativity. We are not like THOSE people. Until she is shown in a AT like fashion we should just support her playable status as much as possible.

Yeah I can feel the negativity even. All this doom and gloom tonight what the heck?

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Yeah I can feel the negativity even. All this doom and gloom tonight what the heck?

I don’t know why people have jumped off the hype train for Shantae so suddenly. I guess people don’t care that she actually has a good chance of playability, due to most likely having a non-compete clause rather than an NDA. I woke up to all this negativity and was genuinely confused about it. My only instinct is to fight the negativity until someone deconfirms her.

 

[Captain Hazama]

What the hell happen when I went to bed? Sounds to me everyone has abandon ship. What happen?

 

[Booper Blooper]

I'm confused why people think that having a similar NDA to Yacht Club would mean she's an assist trophy?
I've always been under the impression that ALL represented characters, regardless of how they were represented, would have similar NDAs.

The big difference is the approach Yacht Club and WayForward have taken.
While they have liked things related to Smash, they have never retweeted or responded drawing attention to it, and Shantae has not appeared in any of the fighting indie crossovers.

Honestly I don't think that they liked a smash post changes anything.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

What the hell happen when I went to bed? Sounds to me everyone has abandon ship. What happen?

I had the same thought earlier. I guess people think WF has a similar NDA to YCG and so on.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

What the hell happen when I went to bed? Sounds to me everyone has abandon ship. What happen?

Someone let Holly in our town apparently.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

What the hell happen when I went to bed? Sounds to me everyone has abandon ship. What happen?

Seems that the typhoon/earthquake broke everyone's spirits.

Including mine.

 

[VizardJeffhog]

Someone let Holly in our town apparently.

You damned fool! Do you realise the danger you put us in when you speak her name?

…where are we again?

 

[GoldLiger]

So even with Yacht Club games being silent on Shovel Knight's status as an AT is one thing but they still allowed him to appear in other fighters. Blade Strangers inclusion of him was announced months prior to his AT status revealed on the August Smash Direct. It's one thing to not talk about a character's status in Smash. It's another thing to not talk about the inclusion of said character in any other fighting game that people wanted(like Blade Strangers).

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Guys it's not over until the fat lady sings, that fat lady being Sakurai. So nothing is set in stone until you hear it from the man himself.

 

[Booper Blooper]

So even with Yacht Club games being silent on Shovel Knight's status as an AT is one thing but they still allowed him to appear in other fighters. Blade Strangers inclusion of him was announced months prior to his AT status revealed on the August Smash Direct. It's one thing to not talk about a character's status in Smash. It's another thing to not talk about the inclusion of said character in any other fighting game that people wanted(like Blade Strangers).

The thing is, WayForward HAS talked about the inclusion in the crossovers.
They've used the "nothing to announce at this time" form tweet that have.
Smash is pretty much the only game they dodge the "is Shantae in?" question with.

(To be clear, I agree the assist trophy only talk is silly, just clearing up that they have said things about other games, which I actually think is a point in our favor.)

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Sure, the reason they are working together makes sense, it's the execution that makes the idea of WF caring deeply about Shantae's image questionable. They were not told to make Shantae a buggy with her face on it.

I don’t really feel that’s the case, since all her transformations involve showing her resemblance in some way with the exception of Tinkerbat.

So even with Yacht Club games being silent on Shovel Knight's status as an AT is one thing but they still allowed him to appear in other fighters. Blade Strangers inclusion of him was announced months prior to his AT status revealed on the August Smash Direct. It's one thing to not talk about a character's status in Smash. It's another thing to not talk about the inclusion of said character in any other fighting game that people wanted(like Blade Strangers).

You can’t really compare the two, since they’ve been putting SK in everything they can for the publicity, while WF is more careful.

Someone let Holly in our town apparently.

Dang it I was hoping no one would make that joke (ironically enough, I forgot about her until I played Jammies mode)

…

But overall, as much as I want her in, there’s no denying that the base of our theories was a water-tight NDA. Without that, it’s game over. I’m giving up now just so her inevitable reveal as an AT hopefully won’t be as devastating.

 

[EarlTamm]

Little has changed. The argument was never about the difference in NDA from Shovel Knight or something like tha, its about whether WF has a non-compete clause, which is still rather likely. Plus, WF is still way to radio silent than they realisticly should be othereise. And let's not forget the Jammies mode hints. Don't forget how we got to be the third biggest thread.

 

[Booper Blooper]

Without that, it’s game over. I’m giving up now just so her inevitable reveal as an AT hopefully won’t be as devastating.

While I disagree, I understand the sentiment of wanting to limit your disappointment, though it's sad to see someone lose their faith in this.

I look forward to when you come back and freak out with all of us when/if she's revealed. (This is genuine and not supposed to be snarky. I realized it could sound like that with the lack of tone in text.)

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Little has changed. The argument was never about the difference in NDA from Shovel Knight or something like tha, its about whether WF has a non-compete clause, which is still rather likely. Plus, WF is still way to radio silent than they realisticly should be othereise. And let's not forget the Jammies mode hints. Don't forget how we got to the third biggest thread.

In terms of undisconfirmed characters, we've actually got the second biggest thread here.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I don’t really feel that’s the case, since all her transformations involve showing her resemblance in some way with the exception of Tinkerbat.



You can’t really compare the two, since they’ve been putting SK in everything they can for the publicity, while WF is more careful.



Dang it I was hoping no one would make that joke (ironically enough, I forgot about her until I played Jammies mode)

…

But overall, as much as I want her in, there’s no denying that the base of our theories was a water-tight NDA. Without that, it’s game over. I’m giving up now just so her inevitable reveal as an AT hopefully won’t be as devastating.

Well, I'm not giving up hope on Shantae. Smash 4 broke my hope, with Ridley being deconfirmed and revealed as a boss and K. Rool being revealed as a Mii costume. But Ultimate has brought my hope back and beyond since Ridley and K. Rool have been confirmed. So don't give up hope!

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Well, I'm not giving up hope on Shantae. Smash 4 broke my hope, with Ridley being deconfirmed and revealed as a boss and K. Rool being revealed as a Mii costume. But Ultimate has brought my hope back and beyond since Ridley and K. Rool have been confirmed. So don't give up hope!

I never did. Why is everyone giving up on her now?

 

[SneakyLink]

A lot seems to have happened overnight.
Realistically, almost nothing changes. Either she’s in or she’s not in.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Question: If Shantae is an AT, just like Shovel Knight, then why doesn't she appear in any other fighting games, but Shovel Knight does?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I never did. Why is everyone giving up on her now?

I don't know. I just came to this thread after getting off work.

 

[EarlTamm]

I think only one or two people gave up, and because there were so lttle people on at the time, it made it look worse than it was.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Question: If Shantae is an AT, just like Shovel Knight, then why doesn't she appear in any other fighting games, but Shovel Knight does?

Wayforward could just be very picky when it comes to crossovers.

 

[Booper Blooper]

I think only one or two people gave up, and because there were so lttle people on at the time, it made it look worse than it was.

Yeah, that's my feeling too.

Still, a demoralizing thing to wake up to, but overall I don't think anything has changed chance wise, and I'm sure thread morale will bounce back as more people show up.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Wayforward could just be very picky when it comes to crossovers.

1. Do you know that for sure?
2. Why would they?
3. Why are all indie-crossovers she doesn't appear in, fighting games?
(Unless I missed some that aren't...)

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Question: If Shantae is an AT, just like Shovel Knight, then why doesn't she appear in any other fighting games, but Shovel Knight does?

1. Do you know that for sure?
2. Why would they?
3. Why are all indie-crossovers she doesn't appear in, fighting games?
(Unless I missed some that aren't...)

1: This is all speculation, but evidence points in that direction.
2: They're most likely being protective of the IP. If it isn't deemed worth it, from a business standpoint, they can just say "No. We're not letting her in".
3: I'm not sure, but they have shown reluctance to put her in crossovers in the past, such as Runbow, so it wouldn't be anywhere near out of the question.

I never did. Why is everyone giving up on her now?

So basically, Matt Bozon RT'ed a post that had #Shantae4Smash. In response, I went and dug around WF's Twitter to see if there were any other "Shantae for Smash" related tweets that they liked. There were a LOT. This means that the NDA isn't as watertight as we originally thought. A possible NDA is more comparable to Shovel Knight... who's an Assist Trophy. If she was a fighter, they wouldn't have liked or acknowledged those tweets.

So I (not so sure about anyone else) have given up hope on her being a fighter in order to prepare for when she is (most likely inevitably) revealed as an Assist Trophy, and I recommend most of us do too, in order to let other fans (especially ones who would end up taking this to a Waluigi level) down easy.

 

[EarlTamm]

I think the one thing WF always requires when they cross over is that Shantae is playable in some form. While SK has made simple cameos, Shantae has always held a playable role in any game she appears in. That does not explain her lack of appearance in fighting games, if anything it makes it more confusing.

1: This is all speculation, but evidence points in that direction.
2: They're most likely being protective of the IP. If it isn't deemed worth it, from a business standpoint, they can just say "No. We're not letting her in".
3: I'm not sure, but they have shown reluctance to put her in crossovers in the past, such as Runbow, so it wouldn't be anywhere near out of the question.



So basically, Matt Bozon RT'ed a post that had #Shantae4Smash. In response, I went and dug around WF's Twitter to see if there were any other "Shantae for Smash" related tweets that they liked. There were a LOT. This means that the NDA isn't as watertight as we originally thought. A possible NDA is more comparable to Shovel Knight... who's an Assist Trophy. If she was a fighter, they wouldn't have liked or acknowledged those tweets.

So I (not so sure about anyone else) have given up hope on her being a fighter in order to prepare for when she is (most likely inevitably) revealed as an Assist Trophy, and I recommend most of us do too, in order to let other fans (especially ones who would end up taking this to a Waluigi level) down easy.

As I said before, its never been about the NDA difference, its if WF has a non compete clause on them, which appears to be the case.

 

[zferolie]

MAn lots of negitivity around. Relax guys. I am still certain of her chances.

And still no news about the new direct date... well they better hurry, or else we will hear about smash news in the famatsu article before the actual direct...

 

[Veodok]

I don't know why anyone is jumping ship. Optimism or pessimism isn't going to change the outcome, so why be negative about it at all? IMO if you're jumping just because "i don't want to be disappointed" then you didn't really want her in to begin with. What is with people and not being able to take the slightest amount of possible disappointment without flipping the hell out?