Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Schonberg]

Do you think that a third pass may happen? I don't think it may happen with FP2 appearing like it is the last one. Though, if another happens, I will be surprised.

It’s 50/50 for me. Any statements about FP2 being the last DLC are honestly not that relevant in my opinion - I mean, how many titles has it been now that Sakurai states would be the last Smash game he worked on? - so it boils down to quite a few factors.

First off, the switch is still apparently in the first HALF of its lifespan, so this Smash will likely be the only one we get on it. Aside from Mario Party, Nintendo doesn’t put multiple titles of the same multiplayer franchise on the same console, likely as a way to avoid cannibalizing sales. In that case, the next Smash is likely many many years off, so even more content being added to extend this Smash’s lifespan isn’t an impossible thought.

That said, Sakurai and his team have been working on the game for years now. Sometimes you want to move on to new projects. One possible way to get around this would be for Sakurai to put a new co-director in charge of the last wave of post-game content while he moves on to a new project... but I’m not sure if that’s really in his style, especially since Ultimate was the last game Iwata asked him to make before his passing. I can’t see Sakurai leaving the project until it’s 100% done.

Honestly, a lot of it boils down to if Nintendo wants more DLC. And with how well the two fighters passes have sold, how well Smash itself has sold, and how far off the next Smash game likely is... it’s definitely possible, but not guaranteed.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It does make sense if the purpose was to simply include more Street Fighter representation. They wanted Chun-Li at first due to being more unique but found they didnt have enough time to implement her and then made Ken since he IS Ryu's "echo" fighter even in actual Street Fighter.

Thing is, Ken didn't bring that much Street Fighter content with him besides himself and a couple of tracks. If Chun-Li were to get in a Challenger Pack, she would come with more tracks, a stage, more Spirits, ect. I really don't see Ken being Chun-Li's replacement even if that leak is true. I think they just have might been saving her for later like Sephiroth.

 

[Shinuto]

Thing is, Ken didn't bring that much Street Fighter content with him besides himself and a couple of tracks. If Chun-Li were to get in a Challenger Pack, she would come with more tracks, a stage, more Spirits, ect. I really don't see Ken being Chun-Li's replacement even if that leak is true. I think they just have might been saving her for later like Sephiroth.

Yeah but unlike FInal Fantasy, we ain't exactly desperate for Street Fighter content in Smash. Street Fighter has 24 spirits, 2 characters, 1 stage with 38 songs. Final Fantasy before Sephiroth had 1 character, 1 stage, 2 spirits and 2 songs.

 

[Schonberg]

Thing is, Ken didn't bring that much Street Fighter content with him besides himself and a couple of tracks. If Chun-Li were to get in a Challenger Pack, she would come with more tracks, a stage, more Spirits, ect. I really don't see Ken being Chun-Li's replacement even if that leak is true. I think they just have might been saving her for later like Sephiroth.

...Didn’t bring much content with him? From Smash 4 to Ultimate we got 32 songs, an assist trophy, and 27 spirits. I mean, it’s not like we can credit that exclusively to Ken, but it’s not like how Final Fantasy basically had no presence in the base game.

 

[meleebrawler]

Thing is, Ken didn't bring that much Street Fighter content with him besides himself and a couple of tracks. If Chun-Li were to get in a Challenger Pack, she would come with more tracks, a stage, more Spirits, ect. I really don't see Ken being Chun-Li's replacement even if that leak is true. I think they just have might been saving her for later like Sephiroth.

Two new remixes, the entirety of Street Fighter II's soundtrack (twice over) and most of the more popular characters as spirits is "just a couple of tracks"? How is this even remotely comparable to Cloud's situation in Ultimate again?

It’s 50/50 for me. Any statements about FP2 being the last DLC are honestly not that relevant in my opinion - I mean, how many titles has it been now that Sakurai states would be the last Smash game he worked on? - so it boils down to quite a few factors.

First off, the switch is still apparently in the first HALF of its lifespan, so this Smash will likely be the only one we get on it. Aside from Mario Party, Nintendo doesn’t put multiple titles of the same multiplayer franchise on the same console, likely as a way to avoid cannibalizing sales. In that case, the next Smash is likely many many years off, so even more content being added to extend this Smash’s lifespan isn’t an impossible thought.

That said, Sakurai and his team have been working on the game for years now. Sometimes you want to move on to new projects. One possible way to get around this would be for Sakurai to put a new co-director in charge of the last wave of post-game content while he moves on to a new project... but I’m not sure if that’s really in his style, especially since Ultimate was the last game Iwata asked him to make before his passing. I can’t see Sakurai leaving the project until it’s 100% done.

Honestly, a lot of it boils down to if Nintendo wants more DLC. And with how well the two fighters passes have sold, how well Smash itself has sold, and how far off the next Smash game likely is... it’s definitely possible, but not guaranteed.

I could see one exception to that rule, depending on the Switch's life... ARMS has always somewhat felt like a prototype, and although the game was not actively supported longer than planned and hasn't proven evergreen like Mario Kart or Splatoon, Nintendo's willingness to ensure it still gets it dues in Smash is a sign they're far from giving up on it. I think they just wanted to save the major improvements for the sequel.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

...Didn’t bring much content with him? From Smash 4 to Ultimate we got 32 songs, an assist trophy, and 27 spirits. I mean, it’s not like we can credit that exclusively to Ken, but it’s not like how Final Fantasy basically had no presence in the base game.

Oh... I forgot Guile was Assist Trophy.

Two new remixes, the entirety of Street Fighter II's soundtrack (twice over) and most of the more popular characters as spirits is "just a couple of tracks"? How is this even remotely comparable to Cloud's situation in Ultimate again?

Even so, I think it's a little suspicious that we haven't gotten any Street Fighter Mii costumes in Ultimate yet besides Guile's one from Smash 4 in base.

 

[Schonberg]

I could see one exception to that rule, depending on the Switch's life... ARMS has always somewhat felt like a prototype, and although the game was not actively supported longer than planned and hasn't proven evergreen like Mario Kart or Splatoon, Nintendo's willingness to ensure it still gets it dues in Smash is a sign they're far from giving up on it. I think they just wanted to save the major improvements for the sequel.

I dunno, a year of free character and stage updates, a year of weekend tournaments, and then eight months for the popularity tournament, that felt like active support to me. People meme about ARMS not doing as well as Splatoon, but I never had a problem finding a match in those first two years and especially not during the tournaments.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So even if we don't get anymore characters after Fighter's Pass 2, I think we will get at least 3 more stages through future updates like back in Smash 4 since after the stages in the upcoming Challenger Packs are included there will be 3 empty stage slots on the screen and to me that seems kind of off. I think we are getting bonus stages besides that extra Battlefield stage.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

It’s 50/50 for me. Any statements about FP2 being the last DLC are honestly not that relevant in my opinion - I mean, how many titles has it been now that Sakurai states would be the last Smash game he worked on? - so it boils down to quite a few factors.

First off, the switch is still apparently in the first HALF of its lifespan, so this Smash will likely be the only one we get on it. Aside from Mario Party, Nintendo doesn’t put multiple titles of the same multiplayer franchise on the same console, likely as a way to avoid cannibalizing sales. In that case, the next Smash is likely many many years off, so even more content being added to extend this Smash’s lifespan isn’t an impossible thought.

That said, Sakurai and his team have been working on the game for years now. Sometimes you want to move on to new projects. One possible way to get around this would be for Sakurai to put a new co-director in charge of the last wave of post-game content while he moves on to a new project... but I’m not sure if that’s really in his style, especially since Ultimate was the last game Iwata asked him to make before his passing. I can’t see Sakurai leaving the project until it’s 100% done.

Honestly, a lot of it boils down to if Nintendo wants more DLC. And with how well the two fighters passes have sold, how well Smash itself has sold, and how far off the next Smash game likely is... it’s definitely possible, but not guaranteed.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Heck, even if Sakurai wants to take break from Smash, there is nothing stopping him from coming back later.
I mean, if the Switch still has a long life left, we could get a year or so of a Smash-break, but continue with more DLC later, when Sakurai is feeling like it again.

 

[MattX20]

So even if we don't get anymore characters after Fighter's Pass 2, I think we will get at least 3 more stages through future updates like back in Smash 4 since after the stages in the upcoming Challenger Packs are included there will be 3 empty stage slots on the screen and to me that seems kind of off. I think we are getting bonus stages besides that extra Battlefield stage.

Yeah, at the very least our remaining newcomers should bring something interesting to the table

 

[meleebrawler]

I dunno, a year of free character and stage updates, a year of weekend tournaments, and then eight months for the popularity tournament, that felt like active support to me. People meme about ARMS not doing as well as Splatoon, but I never had a problem finding a match in those first two years and especially not during the tournaments.

Key words: longer than planned. They had a free update roadmap from the outset and carried it out, but the game didn't explode loudly enough to go further (which probably would have been paid DLC to be fair, new characters definitely require more work than reshuffled and reskinned loadouts after all).

Also to be fair, that's still more faith than the original Splatoon had. Hard to believe it only started with one multiplayer mode, five measly stages and an ultimatum for players to show they like the game enough for further support these days, huh?

 

[Schonberg]

Key words: longer than planned. They had a free update roadmap from the outset and carried it out, but the game didn't explode loudly enough to go further (which probably would have been paid DLC to be fair, new characters definitely require more work than reshuffled and reskinned loadouts after all).

Thats fairly baseless speculation to be honest. By your own example, the original Splatoon must have disappointed Nintendo because they didn’t release paid DLC for it until the sequel on the next console?

I just get tired of people claiming ARMS was some crazy disappointment when it sold 2 million units and had 2 years of free support with a fairly active playerbase. Hell, it sold better than Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and people still were calling ARMS a flop when Min Min got in and wondering where Rex was.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

So even if we don't get anymore characters after Fighter's Pass 2, I think we will get at least 3 more stages through future updates like back in Smash 4 since after the stages in the upcoming Challenger Packs are included there will be 3 empty stage slots on the screen and to me that seems kind of off. I think we are getting bonus stages besides that extra Battlefield stage.

Wonder if this means the return of the Poké Floats.

 

[SebTheGamer]

Wonder if this means the return of the Poké Floats.

Maybe. Hopefully Mario Kart 7 Rainbow Road and PAC-MAZE as well

 

[Comedic Comrade]

Teeb147 True. If Rayman doesn't come to Smash, at least we'll have him in Brawlhalla. Shovel Knight and other characters from that series are also present, alongside non-video game characters.

 

[Schonberg]

Maybe. Hopefully Mario Kart 7 Rainbow Road and PAC-MAZE as well

Sadly, each of them was cut for a pretty understandable reason. Pokefloats kinda fell with the rest of the vertical scrolling stages like Icicle Mountain and Rumble Falls, likely because of issues with stage morph; PAC-MAZE had that screen-focused gimmick; and Rainbow Road was ripped almost directly from MK7 so they’d have to remodel the entire track from scratch.

But darn it I want Pokefloats 2 and New Pac Maze, just strip the gimmick on the latter and make the former unable to be used with stage morph, no one will mind!

 

[Planet Cool]

Give me Jungle Hijinxs too while y'all are at it. Donkey Kong is my favorite Nintendo character/series and that's by far the coolest stage he's ever had. (I understand why they cut it, though.)

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm hoping for Pac-Maze and Yoshi's Woolly World to return. It's so bizarre they cut out Yoshi's Woolly World when they added the Crafted Yoshi alt to Ultimate. Perhaps they're bringing it back later in a update.

 

[SebTheGamer]

Sadly, each of them was cut for a pretty understandable reason. Pokefloats kinda fell with the rest of the vertical scrolling stages like Icicle Mountain and Rumble Falls, likely because of issues with stage morph; PAC-MAZE had that screen-focused gimmick; and Rainbow Road was ripped almost directly from MK7 so they’d have to remodel the entire track from scratch.

But darn it I want Pokefloats 2 and New Pac Maze, just strip the gimmick on the latter and make the former unable to be used with stage morph, no one will mind!

Oh my god! Poke Floats is an actual Smash stage? I thought it’s a mod. Wow it’s actually a Smash Melee stage. Anyway I understand.

 

[Schonberg]

Oh my god! Poke Floats is an actual Smash stage? I thought it’s a mod. Wow it’s actually a Smash Melee stage. Anyway I understand.

...Wait, you thought PokéFloats was just a mod?

I mean, that would be one impressive stage mod to exist back in 2001. But nope, that was all real. Similar to Rainbow Road on 3DS, Floats actually rips models directly from Pokemon Stadium, which might also be why it never returned.

 

[SebTheGamer]

...Wait, you thought PokéFloats was just a mod?

I mean, that would be one impressive stage mod to exist back in 2001. But nope, that was all real. Similar to Rainbow Road on 3DS, Floats actually rips models directly from Pokemon Stadium, which might also be why it never returned.

I just didn’t fully experienced Smash Melee and I didn’t know it was an actual stage. I thought it was a mod because I seen lot of mods in Smash Melee. I just didn’t know that one is real.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

...Wait, you thought PokéFloats was just a mod?

I mean, that would be one impressive stage mod to exist back in 2001. But nope, that was all real. Similar to Rainbow Road on 3DS, Floats actually rips models directly from Pokemon Stadium, which might also be why it never returned.

I think they also ripped some of the Pokemon Melee trophy models into that stage as well.

Oh my god! Poke Floats is an actual Smash stage? I thought it’s a mod. Wow it’s actually a Smash Melee stage. Anyway I understand.

PokeFloats is a real Melee stage and not a modded one. You unlock it after playing 200 matches in VS Mode.

 

[SebTheGamer]

I think they also ripped some of the Pokemon Melee trophy models into that stage as well.



PokeFloats is a real Melee stage and not a modded one. You unlock it after playing 200 matches in VS Mode.

Yeah I didn’t know

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Oh my god! Poke Floats is an actual Smash stage? I thought it’s a mod. Wow it’s actually a Smash Melee stage. Anyway I understand.

How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[SebTheGamer]

How did you come to that conclusion?

I just didn’t fully experience Smash Melee. I only saw the modded stages. I didn’t know that one is real. I just thought that one is a mod too.

 

[Teeb147]

Lol. The stage is weird, so maybe that's why XD

Definitely not your typical smash stage. It's funny, but it was also annoying to fight on :O

 

[SebTheGamer]

Lol. The stage is weird, so maybe that's why XD

Definitely not your typical smash stage. It's funny, but it was also annoying to fight on :O

Huh

 

[Inoj]

So Japan's getting the Mighty Switch Force collection.

 

[Comedic Comrade]

So Japan's getting the Mighty Switch Force collection.

WayForward really is diving into the Japanese market.

 

[MattX20]

So Japan's getting the Mighty Switch Force collection.

Looks like only the original GBC Shantae title still remains unreleased over there

 

[Shinuto]

So Japan's getting the Mighty Switch Force collection.

Damn, WF going in on Japan

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Well, since you guys love art so much, here is something I happened to find recently.

Drawing made by Nintendrawer on deviantART.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So Japan's getting the Mighty Switch Force collection.

WayForward's drive and push into marketing their games in Japan and all the Shantae merchandise coming out of nowhere without Kickstarter campaign support is few of the reasons why I wouldn't blink at Shantae's chances for Smash for a second. Do I think Shantae will happen? Maybe, maybe not. But I think no one in this community shouldn't sleep on her though whether they like her or not.

 

[Moderately obsessed]

Do you think that a third pass may happen? I don't think it may happen with FP2 appearing like it is the last one. Though, if another happens, I will be surprised.

If there will be a 3rd pass, they would have already begun work on it so all we can do is cross our fingers

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If there will be a 3rd pass, they would have already begun work on it so all we can do is cross our fingers

I kind of feel like if Shantae is in, she's in Fighter's Pass 2 and not any later than that. Her being in Pass 2 would lineup closer to the release of Seven Sirens and all the Shantae merchandise that's been coming out lately. I just think if she's in, Fighter's Pass 2 would be the perfect time to reveal her.

 

[meleebrawler]

I kind of feel like if Shantae is in, she's in Fighter's Pass 2 and not any later than that. Her being in Pass 2 would lineup closer to the release of Seven Sirens and all the Shantae merchandise that's been coming out lately. I just think if she's in, Fighter's Pass 2 would be the perfect time to reveal her.

My friend, the "perfect time" was last year with Wayforward's anniversary and them firing on all cylinders with new releases. This theory is growing more thin as time goes on.

WayForward's drive and push into marketing their games in Japan and all the Shantae merchandise coming out of nowhere without Kickstarter campaign support is few of the reasons why I wouldn't blink at Shantae's chances for Smash for a second. Do I think Shantae will happen? Maybe, maybe not. But I think no one in this community shouldn't sleep on her though whether they like her or not.

What this tells me is Wayforward would be more than happy to slip their other IPs with Shantae as part of the bargain.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

With how long this is still taking, I could believe WayForward is POSSIBLY NOT 100% CERTAIN withholding Shantae GBC so when they do announce it's Switch launch via twitter, it'll appear for everyone to see when they look up #Shantae after her Smash debut. Yeah I'm just rambling at this point lol

 

[Comedic Comrade]

My friend, the "perfect time" was last year with Wayforward's anniversary and them firing on all cylinders with new releases. This theory is growing more thin as time goes on.



What this tells me is Wayforward would be more than happy to slip their other IPs with Shantae as part of the bargain.

Sakurai made it clear that anniversaries do not guarantee Fighters from a specific franchise. It is quite rare, and the last time this happened, Little Mac got into Smash.

 

[Dukefire]

Well, may expect the Shantae GBC release in February.

Still, smash speculation is getting stale with Nintendo, sakurai and any other third party companies watching their backs from the fans digging for clues.

 

[Schonberg]

Well, may expect the Shantae GBC release in February.

Still, smash speculation is getting stale with Nintendo, sakurai and any other third party companies watching their backs from the fans digging for clues.

I’m fine with that. I’ve always preferred just talking about characters people think are cool and how they’d work in smash than just speculation.

Speculation always boils down to the same 4-5 characters everyone thinks are going to get in for one reason or another and regurgitates the same 3-4 points over and over usually about sales figures or “how deserving” the character is, and rarely ever actually pans out as expected because Sakurai doesn’t just take the 5 most expected choices and call it a day.

I miss the smash ballot days when you could talk about whatever character you wanted and how you’d want them to play without vultures jumping in to say “but they aren’t as likely as THIS character!” Discussion will always be cooler than speculation.