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Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all

Results are only viewable after voting.
C

Comedic Comrade

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kaithehedgefox said:
Like I've said earlier, popularity ≠ fame. You may be right to say that Shantae is more popular within Japan compared to other western indie franchises, but I still think that Shovel Knight and Touhou are more well known globally.


I wasn't the one who brought it up initially.
Click to expand...
LaBeteNoire LaBeteNoire discussed that Touhou is mostly obscure outside of Japan. So I wouldn't say Touhou is well known globally.
 
Paragon-Yoshi

Paragon-Yoshi

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Either way, this discussion is pointless.
The man himself said, that popularity is not the most important thing about a Smash-Character.
It can be a factor sometimes, but the most important thing is whether a character can be properly represented in Smash and if their movepool makes for a fun character to play as.
A video game character can be the most popular character ever, but if they don't work for Smash in Sakurai's eyes, they won't make it.
 
meleebrawler

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Paragon-Yoshi said:
Either way, this discussion is pointless.
The man himself said, that popularity is not the most important thing about a Smash-Character.
It can be a factor sometimes, but the most important thing is whether a character can be properly represented in Smash and if their movepool makes for a fun character to play as.
A video game character can be the most popular character ever, but if they don't work for Smash in Sakurai's eyes, they won't make it.
Click to expand...
Some people also say "doth protest too much".
 
C

Comedic Comrade

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Can anyone tell me if misdrievous Demise has a Discord account? The dude is a genius when it comes to Smash speculation and I have plenty of things to discuss between me and him. I can't ask him on Twitter because I don't use that and he doesn't have any videos on YouTube. He does have comments on other videos, but it would be weird asking him and getting other users notified as a result of me posting a comment in a reply section.
 
Teeb147

Teeb147

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Paragon-Yoshi said:
Either way, this discussion is pointless.
The man himself said, that popularity is not the most important thing about a Smash-Character.
It can be a factor sometimes, but the most important thing is whether a character can be properly represented in Smash and if their movepool makes for a fun character to play as.
A video game character can be the most popular character ever, but if they don't work for Smash in Sakurai's eyes, they won't make it.
Click to expand...
Popularity is definitely a big factor. And the poll they did counts as well. But it doesn't really give anything to argue one way or another at this point.

I'm just glad Shantae showed up in an indie presentation because it's selling well. For me it's just about whether or not they wanna try putting an indie character in smash. It'd be cool, so who knows ;p
 
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kaithehedgefox

kaithehedgefox

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Teeb147 said:
Popularity is definitely a big factor. And the poll they did counts as well. But it doesn't really give anything to argue one way or another at this point.

I'm just glad Shantae showed up in an indie presentation because it's selling well. For me it's just about whether or not they wanna try putting an indie character in smash. It'd be cool, so who knows ;p
Click to expand...
I knew it! Popularity and fame, which are two completely different things, can obviously affect the sales of Smash DLC.
 
Paragon-Yoshi

Paragon-Yoshi

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Teeb147 said:
Popularity is definitely a big factor. And the poll they did counts as well. But it doesn't really give anything to argue one way or another at this point.
Click to expand...
If that were the case, characters like Terry Bogard or Joker wouldn't be in Smash.

Not saying popularity never matters.
Else we wouldn't have Ridley, King K. Rool or Banjo-Kazooie.
However, it's not the most decisive thing, when it comes to making a character for Smash.
 
okamifire

okamifire

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It's not like
Paragon-Yoshi said:
If that were the case, characters like Terry Bogard or Joker wouldn't be in Smash.

Not saying popularity never matters.
Else we wouldn't have Ridley, King K. Rool or Banjo-Kazooie.
However, it's not the most decisive thing, when it comes to making a character for Smash.
Click to expand...
Not to be rude, but popular in your eyes or popular from an overall standpoint? Terry has been a playable character in 37 different games, a number I'm not sure that any other character maybe bar Mario has reached. Sure, they're all Fatal Fury / KoF games, but he's playable in 37 of 'em. It's not like he's a side character in a game that no one has ever played before. It's also not saying he's a household name like Pikachu either of course.

And Persona 5 (Royale) is one of the highest rated games on PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4. It might not have the audience of Final Fantasy as it's more specifically a JRPG of a certain subgenre, but on most lists of best PS3 / PS4 games (especially RPG based ones), it ends up near the top, at least Top 15. For what it's worth in this case though, it's probably more the game as a whole and less Joker, but again it's not like it's a random nobody game.

Paragon-Yoshi said:
Characters like Jigglypuff, Ice Climbers, R.O.B and Wii Fit Trainer refute that claim.
Click to expand...
At the time she was added to Smash 64, Jigglypuff was popular. (Though not as popular as Charizard, Mewtwo, etc probably) She was probably added since the work already went into Kirby float mechanics. I'm with you on the other 3 though. They're all pretty random, though at least Wii Fii was somewhat relevant a the time they were added.

I think the difference between base roster and DLC though has to be in part popularity based. It's easier to sell a popular character than a less known one. I don't have a great guess as to the final 3 DLC of this pass, but if I were guessing for money I'd be more inclined to pick characters from long running series, popular Game of the Year types games, or a character that has a decent amount of appearances.
 
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Paragon-Yoshi

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okamifire said:
It's not like

Not to be rude, but popular in your eyes or popular from an overall standpoint? Terry has been a playable character in 37 different games, a number I'm not sure that any other character maybe bar Mario has reached. Sure, they're all Fatal Fury / KoF games, but he's playable in 37 of 'em. It's not like he's a side character in a game that no one has ever played before. It's also not saying he's a household name like Pikachu either of course.

And Persona 5 (Royale) is one of the highest rated games on PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4. It might not have the audience of Final Fantasy as it's more specifically a JRPG of a certain subgenre, but on most lists of best PS3 / PS4 games, it ends up near the top, at least Top 15. For what it's worth in this case though, it's probably more the game as a whole and less Joker, but again it's not like it's a random nobody game.
Click to expand...
Even so, if they were as popular as, say Geno or Issac, people would've pushed them more for Smash.
But they were on nobody's radar, before they were announced.
And as far as polls are concerned, they weren't very popular in those either.


I think the difference between base roster and DLC though has to be in part popularity based. It's easier to sell a popular character than a less known one. I don't have a great guess as to the final 3 DLC of this pass, but if I were guessing for money I'd be more inclined to pick characters from long running series, popular Game of the Year types games, or a character that has been around for a while.
Click to expand...
Again, characters like Joker, Terry Bogard, Byleth or Piranha Plant suggest it's not all about popularity.
And Sakurai himself said the same thing during the Terry presentation.
That it's all about making a fun and unique fighter out of playable characters and not who is the most popular.
 
Scamper52596

Scamper52596

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I think when it comes to DLC characters marketability is a bigger factor than popularity. The only DLC character we've gotten so far that didn't really have much of a marketable angle was Banjo. One of the cases where I believe popularity did get that character in. It also helps that Nintendo was already talking to Microsoft about getting Steve in the game, so that likely made conversations about Banjo becoming a fighter much easier.
 
Paragon-Yoshi

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Regardless, as far as Sakurai is concerned, the biggest priority is whether or not a character can be turned into a fun Smash-Fighter.
Everything else is secondary at best.
 
Teeb147

Teeb147

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Paragon-Yoshi said:
Characters like Jigglypuff, Ice Climbers, R.O.B and Wii Fit Trainer refute that claim.
Click to expand...
You can't use outliers to say it doesn't matter, it definitely is a big factor, but not the sole reason someone will get into smash. It doesn't change that it matters a lot. But anyway, I didn't want to debate this since it's obvious XD

We've had Steve, which is from a huge game, hopefully they don't feel like they have to keep going that way :p And can give us someone more niche in the last characters.
 
MattX20

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I'm still certain that the Smash ballot is used to an extent when deciding Smash DLC fighters beyond the base game, and we all know Shantae had a noteworthy presence in it. Maybe not as many votes as Shovel Knight, but she still had a noteworthy amount of attention thrown her way.
 
Paragon-Yoshi

Paragon-Yoshi

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Teeb147 said:
You can't use outliers to say it doesn't matter, it definitely is a big factor, but not the sole reason someone will get into smash. It doesn't change that it matters a lot. But anyway, I didn't want to debate this since it's obvious XD

We've had Steve, which is from a huge game, hopefully they don't feel like they have to keep going that way :p And can give us someone more niche in the last characters.
Click to expand...
Then you're clearly disregarding what Sakurai himself said.
 
Teeb147

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Paragon-Yoshi said:
Then you're clearly disregarding what Sakurai himself said.
Click to expand...
I don't think it makes sense to think of it that way. Bigger context matters too, and it's definitely not just about a fun moveset, that really depends on vision for smash, and that just adds millions of characters that could be made fun, from games nobody knows. So, no, I don't think it makes sense to think of what he said that way, and also, why do you wanna keep this going? It's pointless lol.
 
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meleebrawler

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Teeb147 said:
It's silly to think of it that way. Bigger context matters too, and it's definitely not just about a fun moveset, that really depends on vision for smash, and that just adds millions of characters that could be made fun, from games nobody knows. So, no, I don't think it makes sense to think of what he said that way, and also, why do you wanna keep this going? It's pointless lol.
Click to expand...
I bet you this discussion would not be happening if we happened to supporting someone super famous.

The more you try to shut one down, the more you invite others to make their own judgements on your personality.
 
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Paragon-Yoshi

Paragon-Yoshi

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I think Sakurai know about this "context" more than any of us.
And in the end, it's his decision on what characters make it and what characters won't.

Either way, the man said in his own words, that it's first and foremost about if the character in question makes for a fun and unique Smash Fighter and not about popularity.
And none of our bickering will change that reality.
So again, it's all pointless.
 
Teeb147

Teeb147

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Paragon-Yoshi said:
I think Sakurai know about this "context" more than any of us.
And in the end, it's his decision on what characters make it and what characters won't.

Either way, the man said in his own words, that it's first and foremost about if the character in question makes for a fun and unique Smash Fighter and not about popularity.
And none of our bickering will change that reality.
So again, it's all pointless.
Click to expand...
He clearly just meant that being big / sales aren't everything. You can't take sakurai's word fully literally, due to translations, context, and that he doesn't always say things that stick, like ridley and more.

Lots of factors go into making a character, and when you listen to everything else, including that nintendo has a big say in picking the characters, and business always factors as well. FE characters were put mainly for the marketing, so it wasn't really about popularity there either. It's for a fun game, but also a business, so all the different aspects come into play.


Either way it doesn't change that it's a plus for Shantae, a character doesn't 'have to' be super recognizable. Plus WF has closer ties to nintendo than before, so it could be a not bad decision marketing-wise too.
 
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SebTheGamer

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meleebrawler said:
Could Shantae possibly use Mizutsune's bubblefoam as shampoo?
Click to expand...
Maybe. That could work. I actually now thought that when Shantae uses shield, it’ll be bubble. Like Yoshi’s shield which it’s an Yoshi egg. The bubble would work to be Shantae’s shield as well.
 
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meleebrawler

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SebTheGamer said:
Maybe. That could work. I actually now thought that when Shantae uses shield, it’ll be bubble. Like Yoshi’s shield which it’s an Yoshi egg. The bubble would work to be Shantae’s shield as well.
Click to expand...
Isn't that practically indistinguishable from the P2 blue shield?
 
KirbyWorshipper2465

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C

Comedic Comrade

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KirbyWorshipper2465 said:
Normally he's reliable enough, so this was an isolated incident.

That being said, in case you lot didn't know, WF has a Discord server now.

Click to expand...
1. Not an actual Discord server. It's just a room in another server.
2. I notified everyone prior.
 
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