Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[RetrogamerMax]

If I get art of Shantae in that "drinking the haters' tears" meme if she gets in, I'll have to tell the artist make her bigger than Earth to be accurate for how much she drinks.

So true lol! Not even the 7 seas will compared to the amount of water their tears will produce if Shantae get's in.

 

[Deleted member]

So I was discussing this topic with another user about Bandana Dee awhile ago, but how do you think most people outside the Shantae fanbase specifically the casual crowd would react to Shantae getting into Smash? I think it would be pretty postive especially since people were excited to see the Shovel Knight Assist Trophy and Sans Mii costume.

There will be people who are ecstatic, there will be people who question why she was added, there will be people who will complain, etc. etc.

The casual crowd will probably like her, say she's meh, and will call her okay. She'll be decent with the casual crowd despite the majority of them having no idea who she is. And some may even give the series a shot.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

There will be people who are ecstatic, there will be people who question why she was added, there will be people who will complain, etc. etc.

The casual crowd will probably like her, say she's meh, and will call her okay. She'll be decent with the casual crowd despite the majority of them having no idea who she is. And some may even give the series a shot.

Regardless of peoples' reactions towards her, I think she will grow on a lot of people overtime after her inclusion.

 

[Comedic Comrade]

To compare, Reimu (Touhou) has at least 5 times the amount of detractors than Shantae.

I've never seen people go against Reimu fans, so yeah.

 

[SebTheGamer]

Just here to show my Christmas-related art with Mario and Shantae. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJLuoNwJ596/?igshid=ihjfwz3oq2s1

 

[MattX20]

So I was discussing this topic with another user about Bandana Dee awhile ago, but how do you think most people outside the Shantae fanbase specifically the casual crowd would react to Shantae getting into Smash? I think it would be pretty postive especially since people were excited to see the Shovel Knight Assist Trophy and Sans Mii costume.

Well, I can imagine people using certain Twitch emotes over her inclusion. That, and art of her would skyrocket, both SFW and NSFW material

 

[Comedic Comrade]

I am curious. Where did everyone get the idea that Assist Trophies deconfirm?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I am curious. Where did everyone get the idea that Assist Trophies deconfirm?

Well, by my educated reasoning, it's the following:

One: Back in Brawl, they were introduced as a way to have characters get involved in battle without needing to be playable.

Two: They typically only get promoted in the following game, if any of them do. Not even DLC changes this.

Three: This is one of the few habits the staff doesn't seem to deviate from, probably since it'd be preferable to divert effort to surprise newcomers while still having ATs for variety's sake on the battlefield. Well, that and possible programming issues ('s blocks being put on every stage resulted in severe glitches, so you could imagine how that'd be like for accommodating an AT).

Four: Some of them are openly acknowledged in a joking manner, which seemingly points towards them not being intended to be playable for now, because it's rare for Sak to explicitly bring up anyone that's minor content if they were intended to be a surprise later (hello ).

 

[Comedic Comrade]

Well, by my educated reasoning, it's the following:

One: Back in Brawl, they were introduced as a way to have characters get involved in battle without needing to be playable.

Two: They typically only get promoted in the following game, if any of them do. Not even DLC changes this.

Three: This is one of the few habits the staff doesn't seem to deviate from, probably since it'd be preferable to divert effort to surprise newcomers while still having ATs for variety's sake on the battlefield. Well, that and possible programming issues ('s blocks being put on every stage resulted in severe glitches, so you could imagine how that'd be like for accommodating an AT).

Four: Some of them are openly acknowledged in a joking manner, which seemingly points towards them not being intended to be playable for now, because it's rare for Sak to explicitly bring up anyone that's minor content if they were intended to be a surprise later (hello ).

I see. Technically, Assist Trophies are Fighters, just controlled by AI and not the player. They can even be K.O.'d. Also, I think upgrading an Assist Trophy may be a waste of money because they would have to remove the Assist Trophy of the upgraded character. You can't have a playable Waluigi and an Assist Trophy Waluigi in the same area. It's either remove the AT altogether or don't upgrade the AT.

 

[MattX20]

The Mii Fighter and Assist Trophies thing are basically the only fan rules that still have some weight to them until proven otherwise.

 

[Megadoomer]

I see. Technically, Assist Trophies are Fighters, just controlled by AI and not the player. They can even be K.O.'d. Also, I think upgrading an Assist Trophy may be a waste of money because they would have to remove the Assist Trophy of the upgraded character. You can't have a playable Waluigi and an Assist Trophy Waluigi in the same area. It's either remove the AT altogether or don't upgrade the AT.

Considering that assist trophies can be removed depending on what stage you're playing on (Knuckles doesn't show up in Green Hill Zone, the Moon doesn't show up on Great Bay, Alucard doesn't show up in Wii Fit Studio - you can see this for yourself in Training Mode, since you have the option to select which assist trophy shows up there), I'm not sure if the bolded part is a big issue - they could just do something similar, where the assist trophy isn't summoned depending on which characters are in the match. (though I don't see us getting assist trophies promoted to playable through DLC for the reasons that KirbyWorshipper2465 said)

 

[Schonberg]

I am curious. Where did everyone get the idea that Assist Trophies deconfirm?

To follow up with what KirbyWorshipper said, there’s also the point about what to do with the existing Assist Trophy when the character comes out.

Considering that Sakurai chose to even replace Toon Link as a train driver if he’s selected on the Spirit Tracks stage, Tingle was dropped as a three time assist trophy when he became a stage feature in Great Bay, and Knuckles won’t appear on the Green Hill Zone stage because he’s running around in the background, they seem to want to keep the non playable cast consistent in their appearances (strangely enough, this doesn’t seem to extend to one character - Chrom; but he’s a part of a playable character’s moveset and his own playable character, but never a stage feature or assist trophy). This means that, if the assist trophy character is to be upgraded to playable, they’d have to do one of the following.

1: Ignore the internal consistency and just let the AT exist alongside the much higher quality model version of the character

2: Program a way to ensure that assist trophy cannot be selected whenever they are playing in the match

3: Program in a replacement character to take over the assist trophy’s role when they are playable

And I guess the logic is “why bother with any of those options when we could just pick someone new and not deal with that, there’s always next game for their chance”.

Again, it’s all based on general reasoning given from what is in the game, no hard facts or actual word from Sakurai. Literally the next character could be Isaac from Golden Sun and we’d just have to accept however they work around his assist trophy. The only reason people bring it up is that it does feel unlikely when they can just go for a new character.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

By the way, the list that keeps being brought up became newsworthy: https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2020/dec/23/rumor-sakurai-choices-leak-ssbu/

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I see. Technically, Assist Trophies are Fighters, just controlled by AI and not the player. They can even be K.O.'d. Also, I think upgrading an Assist Trophy may be a waste of money because they would have to remove the Assist Trophy of the upgraded character. You can't have a playable Waluigi and an Assist Trophy Waluigi in the same area. It's either remove the AT altogether or don't upgrade the AT.

Not exactly. Certain Assist Trophies are turned off on certain stages like the Moon and Tingle Assists can't appear in Great Bay because of them being in the background in that stage and the Knuckles Assist can't appear in Green Hill Zone for the same reason ect, ect. I think this only started to become a thing in Ultimate and I think if they can turn off Assist Trophies fir certain stages than they can turn them off if any of them get promoted and someone is playing as them. Plus while Chrom was never a Assist Trophy, he still appears in Robin's Final Smash despite him being playable now. A character can play two different roles in the same Smash game just look at Falco and Chrom for example.

 

[Teeb147]

Assist Trophies are definitely soft deconfirms. But that doesn't mean that in rare cases they wouldn't promote one to a fighter, like if they had changed their mind on spring man he might've gotten in over min min, since at that time they had no plans for an arms fighter. But it still usually means that they decided to make it an assist trophy for representation Instead of a fighter. No one should bank on a character being promoted to fighter.
I say that sadly since Krystal was my top character I wanted to see as a fighter. Seeing her as an AT was very sad. Same thing with Ashley though I hoped that wariowarre would still get in but nope, they just didn't give that series much love, which is sucky.

 

[Comedic Comrade]

By the way, the list that keeps being brought up became newsworthy: https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2020/dec/23/rumor-sakurai-choices-leak-ssbu/

I believe I linked that here before. It still hasn't been shot down, so here's hoping.

Also, I have been informed of a 4chan leak that sounds "believable" saying Tails will come in next, Chemical Plant will be his stage and he will bring in several new remixes. I am taking this with a grain of salt for two major reasons.

1. Sonic appears to be representing his whole franchise without the need for additional characters.
2. While Tails is likely, I feel like Dr. Eggman (who isn't on the list, just like Tails) has a better shot because he is one of the most iconic villains of all time.

Besides, the list leak has more weight to it. The only way we can find out for sure is if we wait a few more months. December is almost over, and with that, 2020 as a whole.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Assist Trophies are definitely soft deconfirms. But that doesn't mean that in rare cases they wouldn't promote one to a fighter, like if they had changed their mind on spring man he might've gotten in over min min, since at that time they had no plans for an arms fighter. But it still usually means that they decided to make it an assist trophy for representation Instead of a fighter. No one should bank on a character being promoted to fighter.
I say that sadly since Krystal was my top character I wanted to see as a fighter. Seeing her as an AT was very sad. Same thing with Ashley though I hoped that wariowarre would still get in but nope, they just didn't give that series much love, which is sucky.

Same here dude. Krystal is my most wanted Nintendo fighter and I want her so bad.

 

[Teeb147]

I believe I linked that here before. It still hasn't been shot down, so here's hoping.

Also, I have been informed of a 4chan leak that sounds "believable" saying Tails will come in next, Chemical Plant will be his stage and he will bring in several new remixes. I am taking this with a grain of salt for two major reasons.

1. Sonic appears to be representing his whole franchise without the need for additional characters.
2. While Tails is likely, I feel like Dr. Eggman (who isn't on the list, just like Tails) has a better shot because he is one of the most iconic villains of all time.

Besides, the list leak has more weight to it. The only way we can find out for sure is if we wait a few more months. December is almost over, and with that, 2020 as a whole.

Lol. Sorry, but you can't go calling 4chan leaks believable You can, but it's weird.

Edit: Ok you did say sounds too, so it's not that bad, but really, there's thousands and thousands of (fake) leaks posted all the time, once in a while you'll get something that sounds not that bad. It's still fake.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Lol. Sorry, but you can't go calling 4chan leaks believable You can, but it's weird.

That's mostly true. But there are EXTREMELY rare cases when a real leak drops on 4chan as there was a couple that mention Piranha Plant months before his reveal saying how they use Bowser Jr. as his base and he was going to be one of the last base game characters to get announced.

 

[Teeb147]

That's mostly true. But there are EXTREMELY rare cases when a real leak drops on 4chan as there was a couple that mention Piranha Plant months before his reveal saying how they use Bowser Jr. as his base and he was going to be one of the last base game characters to get announced.

Yes but the odds of something being real is pretty stacked Whenever we see something that sounds alright it's been false, so I don't think our good leak finding odds are gonna be good XD It's like a needle in a hay barn.

I thought the Ryza leak looked alright to me. But she's deconfirmed now.
As for the list, there's some odd names in there, so it might've just been lucky, though having gotten Terry to me is a not a bad guess. Seeing Terra in there is nice But pretty sure Sephiroth took her place :O

 

[Captain Hazama]

Same here dude. Krystal is my most wanted Nintendo fighter and I want her so bad.

She was mine too. Then she was AT. And watching her moves as a AT. makes me even sadder.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

She was mine too. Then she was AT.

I still think there is a slim chance she will be the one to get promoted if they promote Assist Trophies in this game. I still think it will go to Waluigi or Isaac first, but I wouldn't rule out Krystal until this is all over.

 

[Teeb147]

I still think there is a slim chance she will be the one to get promoted if they promote Assist Trophies in this game. I still think it will go to Waluigi or Isaac first, but I wouldn't rule out Krystal until this is all over.

Unless they have a secret star fox game that goes back to the old ones where she was in, I kinda doubt they'll feel like doing that.
That was also a blow, when they kind of decided to reinvent the characters part of SF.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Unless they have a secret star fox game that goes back to the old ones where she was in, I kinda doubt they'll feel like doing that.
That was also a blow, when they kind of decided to reinvent the characters part of SF.

Well that's because Miyamoto wants to remake the original Star Fox a billion times SNES, 2, 64, and Zero for example. Literally more than half of the Star Fox games are remakes of the original SNES game.

 

[Comedic Comrade]

Lol. Sorry, but you can't go calling 4chan leaks believable You can, but it's weird.

Edit: Ok you did say sounds too, so it's not that bad, but really, there's thousands and thousands of (fake) leaks posted all the time, once in a while you'll get something that sounds not that bad. It's still fake.

TOY the Gamer told me about this leak on Discord. He is my friend over there.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I believe I linked that here before. It still hasn't been shot down, so here's hoping.

Also, I have been informed of a 4chan leak that sounds "believable" saying Tails will come in next, Chemical Plant will be his stage and he will bring in several new remixes. I am taking this with a grain of salt for two major reasons.

1. Sonic appears to be representing his whole franchise without the need for additional characters.
2. While Tails is likely, I feel like Dr. Eggman (who isn't on the list, just like Tails) has a better shot because he is one of the most iconic villains of all time.

Besides, the list leak has more weight to it. The only way we can find out for sure is if we wait a few more months. December is almost over, and with that, 2020 as a whole.

Don't forget the soft deconfirmation of his Mii hat, which has been brought back since .

But you never know I guess, so who am I to contest anything. But seriously though why is this specific "leak" still being talked about?

 

[Teeb147]

Well that's because Miyamoto wants to remake the original Star Fox a billion times SNES, 2, 64, and Zero for example. Literally more than half of the Star Fox games are remakes of the original SNES game.

Really? where did you hear that? That'd be cool.

TOY the Gamer told me about this leak on Discord. He is my friend over there.

That doesnt change anything XD

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Really? where did you hear that? That'd be cool.

Well, 2, 64, and Zero are remakes. And unless Nintendo actually makes a new Star Fox game, Krystal will never return to her series which is ticking me off. I'm tired of hearing the same old story over and over again

 

[Teeb147]

Well, 2, 64, and Zero are remakes. And unless Nintendo actually makes a new Star Fox game, Krystal will never return to her series which is ticking me off. I'm tired of hearing the same old story over and over again

Oh. well, yeah that's what I meant, and I thought you were saying they're thinking of making remakes.
They should just continue from the gamecube story days. I know most likely wont happen though.

Anyway, I've mostly given up on Krystal. But we still have Shantae to be open about XD

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Oh. well, yeah that's what I meant, and I thought you were saying they're thinking of making remakes.
They should just continue from the gamecube story days. I know most likely wont happen though.

Anyway, I've mostly given up on Krystal. But we still have Shantae to be open about XD

Well for me it's like:

A man can dream right? I still hope miraculously they are both in this roster.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In regards to Krystal, there are two things to do:

1) Be a developer willing to make a new Star Fox game (and not do what Starlink did with its really niche concept).
2) Support her hella hard, to levels, haters be damned.

Of course, both of those will take a while, so I'm not in a hurry to press the issue.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

In regards to Krystal, there are two things to do:

1) Be a developer willing to make a new Star Fox game (and not do what Starlink did with its really niche concept).
2) Support her hella hard, to levels, haters be damned.

Of course, both of those will take a while, so I'm not in a hurry to press the issue.

I think as long as her Assist Trophy remains in the games, support for Krystal remains strong and steady, and she returns to her franchise we will be in a good spot to get her in someday. I think it's more critical now that Krystal returns to base before she makes it into the Smash roster.

 

[Comedic Comrade]

Don't forget the soft deconfirmation of his Mii hat, which has been brought back since .

But you never know I guess, so who am I to contest anything. But seriously though why is this specific "leak" still being talked about?

Tails is a Mii Hat? Never realised.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Tails is a Mii Hat? Never realised.

Er I meant Mii costume, keep mixing them up.

You didn't actually keep track with Ultimate news much, did you?

 

[Comedic Comrade]

Er I meant Mii costume, keep mixing them up.

You didn't actually keep track with Ultimate news much, did you?

Nah, not really. I only just hopped on Smash thanks to Shantae.

 

[Scamper52596]

Assist Trophies and Mii Fighter Costumes really do feel like hard deconfirms to me. There's never been an instance outside of between games where an upgrade of an Assist/Costume has happened via DLC. I'm sure every single one of these characters were carefully looked at and considered by Nintendo and the Smash Team, but they ended up landing roles outside of being playable. I'd say it's even worse if you end up as a DLC Mii Costume because it would be really odd for Nintendo to sell you a costume while they're planning (or even considering) to make the character playable later.

It's why I feel that Rex still isn't likely to happen this game. My guess is that the promotional pick in FP1 was between him and Byleth, and they ultimately decided to go with Byleth because it lined up better with FE3H's release window. In the Party Crash Bash the top two were Min Min and Ninjara, and we know that Ninjara ended up getting the consolation Mii Fighter prize. Which suggests to me that he could've easily had been picked for the playable role if he won that. So what I'm saying is that Mii Fighter Costumes are likely just another way of being a consolation for playable status, just like Assist Trophies have always been. Of course we'll see what happens in the end, but I'm not banking on any Assist or Mii Fighter (especially if they were DLC Costumes) getting chosen as DLC. And trust me, Tails has always been my most wanted Smash character for as long as I can remember, so I'm not attempting to be biased in my assessment of the situation. Just realistic.

 

[Teeb147]

Assist Trophies and Mii Fighter Costumes really do feel like hard deconfirms to me. There's never been an instance outside of between games where an upgrade of an Assist/Costume has happened via DLC. I'm sure every single one of these characters were carefully looked at and considered by Nintendo and the Smash Team, but they ended up landing roles outside of being playable. I'd say it's even worse if you end up as a DLC Mii Costume because it would be really odd for Nintendo to sell you a costume while they're planning (or even considering) to make the character playable later.

It's why I feel that Rex still isn't likely to happen this game. My guess is that the promotional pick in FP1 was between him and Byleth, and they ultimately decided to go with Byleth because it lined up better with FE3H's release window. In the Party Crash Bash the top two were Min Min and Ninjara, and we know that Ninjara ended up getting the consolation Mii Fighter prize. Which suggests to me that he could've easily had been picked for the playable role if he won that. So what I'm saying is that Mii Fighter Costumes are likely just another way of being a consolation for playable status, just like Assist Trophies have always been. Of course we'll see what happens in the end, but I'm not banking on any Assist or Mii Fighter (especially if they were DLC Costumes) getting chosen as DLC. And trust me, Tails has always been my most wanted Smash character for as long as I can remember, so I'm not attempting to be biased in my assessment of the situation. Just realistic.

I'm less prone to say that mii costumes deconfirm unless it's 3rd party. I think if they took the time to get the rights for the mii costume only, I think that rules out a fighter. But if it's 1st party I think it's easy enough since we have mii costumes of fighters too.
But yeah it hasn't happened, even for ARMS they end up going with a different character. I still think it's not impossible, but chances are pretty slim imo

 

[Scamper52596]

I'm less prone to say that mii costumes deconfirm unless it's 3rd party. I think if they took the time to get the rights for the mii costume only, I think that rules out a fighter. But if it's 1st party I think it's easy enough since we have mii costumes of fighters too.
But yeah it hasn't happened, even for ARMS they end up going with a different character. I still think it's not impossible, but chances are pretty slim imo

This is a fair way to look at it. It's actually one of the reasons I clarified DLC Mii Costumes being less likely to me. One because they're more recent additions which suggests they could've been considered later and still ended up as a Costume (less time for Nintendo to rethink their decision), two because a lot of the DLC Costumes have been 3rd party (if they were considering making a third party costume playable then they would probably be smart enough to not make a costume for them unless they were absolutely sure), and three because it feels like a scummy business move to sell a costume only for them to be upgraded as a fully fledged DLC character later (t would probably make some fans feel unhappy that they bought the Costume instead of waiting, even if the costumes are pretty cheap).

Of course situations are always liable to change like how they apparently did for an ARMS rep, so technically anything is possible. If an Assist or Costume upgrade were to happen my guess is that it'll probably be from the first party base game content (like Waluigi or something), and they'll likely just be the one exception (at least for this iteration of Smash). But personally I still highly doubt we'll see it happen at all.

 

[meleebrawler]

Just here to show my Christmas-related art with Mario and Shantae. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJLuoNwJ596/?igshid=ihjfwz3oq2s1

If you're feeling down, try picturing Mario X Shantae scenarios in your head. It's what I do to relax these days, while listening to relevant music to provide inspiration.

 

[Dukefire]

Here is a Shantae artwork for the evening.
Artist: greenlittle