Shadowloo Showdown V - August 29-31! Congrats to all winners! Comments and Shoutouts please!

[Hughie]

If its off topic then don't bring it up, honestly no one cares that you're going falco over fox.

 

[Splice]

if possible, unlike bam, we won't be cramming everything except finals into saturday
instead having tournaments on sunday also, as well as friday night for crews
so there shouldn't be a need to lower PM's stocks solely for time management

Yeah I forgot to mention
by extension of what I was saying about getting a perfect stock count for the game, if time allows go for the highest standard! (4)

 

[S.D]

Wow discussion wtf is this?

Alright - first off CEO was slow because of the ridiculous inordinate amount of time players were taking in between EVERY SINGLE GAME. Seriously they sat there talking to coaches for at least the length of the prior match on every occasion, ridiculous. Billy I was using my match timers as an argument for the speed of game at present, not the opposition, although I was beating Dekar in a real hurry in PM winners at RMIT, but I guess he's a scrub at that game too.

Only issues I saw at CEO were things like Chudat stalling for a kirbycide, other than that the games were fast and aggressive enough (moreso than say YL v Puff hbox armada). Because of the number of new matchups and information overload required to know how to beat characters things tend to take a bit longer. But do a fox ditto and you're still gunna have quick games.

As for the vertical stall stuff Shaya I don't think it's THAT big an issue, realistically you just have to wait out the stall and you can juggle much easier in PM/Melee than in Brawl because of airdodge mechanics. No different than waiting for say a Samus or Puff to come back down.

I'm seeing a lot of arguments about seemingly arbitrary things here, what's the actual point of this discussion again?

EDIT: If this is solely a discussion about time/strain on tournament streams - solution is hold top 3 on stream instead of top 8 EZ.

Double edit: Next tournament someone keep an eye on the game length timer at the end of every finals match and do a comparison between all smash titles. Then decide if anything needs to change.

Triple edit: Also thinking about it there seems to be a lot more sets go to the fifth match in PM atm, unlike melee where there's more quick 3-0s. Guess that makes a difference too.

 

[Hobobloke]

I thought that count down timer they implemented was genius.

 

[Basty]

If its off topic then don't bring it up, honestly no one cares that you're going falco over fox.

soz

 

[Splice]

Triple edit: Also thinking about it there seems to be a lot more sets go to the fifth match in PM atm, unlike melee where there's more quick 3-0s. Guess that makes a difference too.

CEO top 8 had at least 4 2-0's and Wizzy 3-0'd Zero once. I'll do a small sample size check up with just CEO to see what average game time was and how close said games were once they are on Youtube. Would be an interesting excersize.

I think the feel of P:M's slowness is how hard it is to actually close games even when there is dominance.
M2k vs Armada game 2 - timer was on 3:11 = 5 minute game
and it didn't look like a close game, Mewtwo (and a lot of other characters in PM, because of the large viable roster) just can't go hard on someone's shield/zone espc. not Pit's.
This kind of agrees with how I feel about the game, it's just like I'm vsing Jigglypuff every game until someone picks Fox/Falco and then I feel like I can't do anything.

 

[Dekar289]

y u quote me but use sd text? u wanna fite?

 

[Basty]

Too be honest guys, I am starting too not feel going to shadowloo, I will go but I just don't feel like I will enjoy my self, I seem to be getting worse and school seems to be a big factor in it

 

[Jamwa]

Yeah judging by Jamie and SDs posts I guess we're just better than America at P:M right?
So when we improve the game will definitely speed up. That's why at CEO every game in the top 8 that was remotely close went for over 4 and a half minutes. It's always this slow in any game I watch where the winner is unclear.

thank god u can read my mind cos thats exactly what i was trying to say even after saying thats not what i meant it actually was and i was just joking the whole time

 

[Redact]

Too be honest guys, I am starting too not feel going to shadowloo, I will go but I just don't feel like I will enjoy my self, I seem to be getting worse and school seems to be a big factor in it

Worse at school or worse at smash?

Either way put your education first always. Smash can come later.

Do come to what you can though!

 

[Dekar289]

if it's your first tournament, you will enjoy yourself

 

[Splice]

thank god u can read my mind cos thats exactly what i was trying to say even after saying thats not what i meant it actually was and i was just joking the whole time

Eggsactly

 

[Basty]

Worse at school or worse at smash?

Either way put your education first always. Smash can come later.

Do come to what you can though!

Worse at smash. Holidays is coming up soon though so I have 2 weeks practice

 

[Redact]

Here's a tip to get better then:

pick one character per a game and play that character only.

No excuses for multiple mains until you're high level aka within top 10 aus

 

[S.D]

You will improve 1000x more by attending one tournament than you ever will playing alone.

Also Alex Jebailey from CEO posted on FB saying PM took too long because of the time between matches, like I said. Although these other arguments etc are valid.

 

[Shaya]

No excuses for multiple mains until you're high level aka within top 10 aus

Pretty big truth.
Actually to add onto that (although not exactly an issue in Melee coz metagame), but don't play bad characters when you're new. You can come to main whoever you want, but if you're going to start with characters who rely on less options to be successful, you're shooting yourself in the foot for coming to understand the game at higher levels. And if you're going to stick with someone who's bad, you better be willing to work 5x harder as everyone else.

You will improve 1000x more by attending one tournament than you ever will playing alone.

This is like the 99% truth. If you know what your shortfalls are, or have plans on what you need to do to get better, you don't need tournaments. People from all corners of the globe 'sit in the lab' all day, show up and wreck ****. It's fantastic and hype. But chances are you don't have a plan, nor know how to construct one; tournament experience definitely helps you figure those two things out~

 

[S.D]

My evo plan. Camp people who are better than me.
Also I may have Duck 3rd round according to draft pools (whelp).

 

[Dekar289]

while i have the utmost faith in you in most matchups, the jank of samus might be too much
a) make him nervous
b) parking lot

 

[Redact]

while i have the utmost faith in you in most matchups, the jank of samus might be too much
a) make him nervous
b) parking lot

yeah we know sam can't win with sheer talent cuz he is a joke nsw sux beat u any day sam pls dont parking lot me

 

[Basty]

My evo plan. Camp people who are better than me.
Also I may have Duck 3rd round according to draft pools (whelp).

Well too be honest, its better than you having to play PPMD, Mango, Mew2king or Armada in first round!

 

[S.D]

If u wanna be the best, you gotta beat the best. I'd rather make a splash against a god than go out in 600th place against randoms.

 

[Splice]

My evo plan. Camp people who are better than me.
Also I may have Duck 3rd round according to draft pools (whelp).

Spend these next few days practicing invulnerable ledge-hop Fairs with Jigglypuff.
Also Sam can you please request to have your matches against Americans streamed or recorded plsplspls

Do you recognise any of the other players?

 

[J-Birds]

Seeing that Australian flag gives me feels
Goodluck!

 

[Basty]

If u wanna be the best, you gotta beat the best. I'd rather make a splash against a god than go out in 600th place against randoms.

u got a point also best of luck! Might want to practice your Samus match-up, I play Samus but I can't really help with that sorry!

 

[Splice]

2nd best player in France is in your pool SD.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Smasher:Salepate
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Smasher:Echo
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Smasher:Duck

 

[Basty]

Where are the links to all the other pools?

 

[Tranquility]

http://evo2014.s3.amazonaws.com/brackets/index.html

 

[PrettyCoolGuy]

Yeah 9th at ROF3 is pretty legit. That'll really show whether the dave practice has been good if Sam gets to play him

 

[1ampercent]

Hey guys, just wanted to know if there's going to be a different stagelist for P:M. Some of us already had a discussion about it on the Vic stickied thread, and if there's going to be a change I figured it's best to let people know asap, especially those people who are not from Vic.

Last proposed stagelist in Vic thread below

Spoiler

Starters:
Yoshi's Story
Battlefield
Pokemon Stadium 2
Final Destination
Smashville
Dreamland
Fountain of Dreams

Counterpicks:
Yoshi's Island
Green Hill Zone

1st round 1-2-2-1, 2 bans Bo3, 1 ban Bo5

 

[dean.]

Is PM 100% confirmed at this tournament? Has Nintendo involvement been ruled out?

 

[Basty]

Hey guys, just wanted to know if there's going to be a different stagelist for P:M. Some of us already had a discussion about it on the Vic stickied thread, and if there's going to be a change I figured it's best to let people know asap, especially those people who are not from Vic.

Last proposed stagelist in Vic thread below

Spoiler

Starters:
Yoshi's Story
Battlefield
Pokemon Stadium 2
Final Destination
Smashville
Dreamland
Fountain of Dreams

Counterpicks:
Yoshi's Island
Green Hill Zone

1st round 1-2-2-1, 2 bans Bo3, 1 ban Bo5

IMO I don't like that stage list I personally think it should be

Starters:
Yoshi's Story
Battlefield
Pokemon Stadium 2
Final Destination
Smashville
Dreamland
Fountain of Dreams

Counter Picks
Yoshi's Island
Green Hill Zone
Lylat Cruise
Dracula's Castle
Distant Planet
Norfair (Or Metal Cavern)
Skyworld

I Just really think this list is better IMO, Lylat Cruise and Skyworld don't need to go

 

[Redact]

Is PM 100% confirmed at this tournament? Has Nintendo involvement been ruled out?

PM 100%, nintendo involvement still unclear

 

[Redact]

IMO I don't like that stage list I personally think it should be

Starters:
Yoshi's Story
Battlefield
Pokemon Stadium 2
Final Destination
Smashville
Dreamland
Fountain of Dreams

Counter Picks
Yoshi's Island
Green Hill Zone
Lylat Cruise
Dracula's Castle
Distant Planet
Norfair (Or Metal Cavern)
Skyworld

I Just really think this list is better IMO, Lylat Cruise and Skyworld don't need to go

The fact you even suggested norfair means you really don't know what good for competitive stages. That stage is a total joke.

Once you actually start attending tournaments youll understand when it comes to stagelists, but otherwise I currently plan to use the stagelist posted by 1am

 

[S.D]

What was the stagelist at CEO? Despite my gripes I don't think Lylat needs to go either, nor skyloft or warioware necessarily.

Also re: evo my pool is actually very solid all round, without being spectacular. My first round opponent is from PPMD's crew, and the guys Billy mentioned are all good too.

Basty some of those CPs are ridiculous.

 

[Redact]

CEO cps: Yoshi’s Island (Brawl), Lylat Cruise, Wario Ware, Green Hill Zone, Skyworld

I still believe we are better off removing lylat/wario/skyworld, but I am looking for feedback on this.

Bare minimum at least removing skyworld that stuff's dumb imo

If the community would rather more stages, we will use CEO ruleset but not increasing the stage amounts any further nor including any stages not already mentioned in the CEO ruleset (skyloft, norfair, draculas, distant planet, metal cavern or others are simply not happening)

 

[Hughie]

1&%'s is good, but with WW for a cp maybe?

 

[Splice]

Warioware is a really weird stage. It has super close side killzones which makes it fill this really niche spot.
For example, a Fox might counter pick my Mewtwo there to kill me with Uairs off those platforms at like 70%, but I'd actually counterpick a Fox there so I could kill him from onstage with Bthrow at 60%. I think that's a really interesting and positive property of the stage. It's an ok stage if you accept that lower % deaths being common is an acceptable aspect of the stage.

YI Brawl tilts aren't that bad right? If the stage is banned because of ghosts, it's the same principle as YI:Melee. Oh what, Randall is on a timer? That's cool, but you can't control when you actually get sent offstage or not. If Randall happens to be there when your opponent throws you off, it's not because you were watching the timer and planned to get Fsmash'd. Unless you really have ill-will torwards tilts I don't think there is great grounds for a ban.

Skyworld is the Pit stage right? I like it a lot, I think it's pretty functional. The platforms being offstage makes for really interesting edgeguarding and recovery, as well as general platform game. The strange edges just force you to recover from the right angle / limits your angle but still allows you to sweet spot. I think people just don't like this stage because of the cloud visuals for the platforms being confusing, I don't know why else people dislike it.

Lylat Cruise, no real comment, if the tilting of the ship is the same magnitude as it is in Brawl then it can be pretty stupid. The slanted platforms of the stage though aren't really an issue though.

GHZ seems fine. I don't think moving plats or killzone size concerns are generally an issue, so 'nuff said.

In order of viablity/value/utility imo
YI (Brawl) > GHZ > Skyworld > Warioware > Lylat

I'd be confused if you actually removed YI (Brawl)
I'd be disappointed if you removed Skyworld but I'd understand since its platform set-up is unique and integral (GHZ platform is unique but also easy to ignore)

 

[S.D]

I'd say at least keep WW and probably Lylat, overall I think Skyworld's clouds are just too strange and ambiguous, like I fear attempting to waveland on them as I might just as easily fall through and die. The fact the platforms are off stage exacerbates this. Maybe I'm just a coward. Lylat I'm iffy on, but I think it is fine as a CP. With two bans, you can always get rid of stages anyway.

 

[1ampercent]

WW seems legit to me however we may have too many small stages if it's allowed.

Skyworld cloud platforms are weird, it is possible to practice/learn the timing of wavelands here I guess.

I'd be salty if Lylat is still legal. I like the unique platform layout on this stage, and I think the tilting is gone, but the messed up ledges makes recovery for some characters (especially my mains) too unforgiving, I'd get caught under the stage using a side special recovery and just SD, no other legal stages has this trait. I've tested/trialled this stage a lot just to make sure I wasn't being delusional, I tried to like this stage, I just can't, this stage needs to go imo. If another CP has to be included, I'd rather see WW or Skyworld being legal over this.

 

[Chappos]

Wario Ware and YI(Brawl) are fine as counterpicks, please include them. Skyworld's clouds are iffy but I don't really care one way or another if it gets cut from the CP list. Lylat also doesn't really have much reason to be banned but I wouldn't care if it was banned.

If it helps, Perth plays:

Neutral Stages

• Final Destination
• Battlefield
• Smashville
• Pokemon Stadium 2
• Dreamland (64)
• Fountain of Dreams
• Yoshi’s Story (Melee) [Singles Only]
• Distant Planet [Doubles Only]

Counter-Pick Stages

• Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)
• Pokemon Stadium 1
• Lylat Cruise
• Wario Ware
• Green Hill Zone
• Skyloft
• Skyworld

Though we've discussed banning Skyloft/PS1, we've never actually done it. You'd be hard pressed to find those stages being played though.