Social SGD: The hedgehogs are back in town.

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

im not saying they aren't awesome designs, just that they don't really feel like something fit for sonic games, they feel more like something that they should've used for a new crash bandicoot game. like knuckles now reminds of crunch bandicoot. For a sub series its a bold move, but one that kind of like each new generation of pokemon will take me a little while to appreciate more.

 

[SoupaSonic]

All those bandages or sports tape, I don't understand. I also really really REALLY don't like Tails' weird fighting stance when they got surrounded in the trailer, it creeps me out. The show's trailer got released too, at least they're keeping Sonic's constant teasing of Eggman a thing

 

[Camalange]

The designs are mediocre at best. Knuckles look like garb, they used bandages to cover up Sonic's iconic signature shoes, and he has like a "I'm the cool main hero" scarf. I know it's a game in progress, but the current in game models look really bad. That could improve with time, because the Sonic Boom TV show actually looks really nice (except even more complaints about designs are Sonic's arms being blue and his mouth being centered ugh).

Sega has come out and said that it's a "branch" of the Sonic franchise and not meant to replace "modern" Sonic but who knows with them. I hate the idea of rebooting something that isn't dead yet. Just look at how badly Crash and Spyro burned out. Sonic is outliving them, and giving them bandages isn't going to help.

The gameplay could prove to redeem this spin-off. That will really be the determining factor. The game could end up being really fun for all I know, but I'll still be jarred visually. But with a new game, show, and toyline, it's not going to be a thing that can just be brushed under the rug.

I'd be super stoked about all this actually if it wasn't with these dumb redesigns. Like, I've been wanting a new Sonic game that focuses on the core cast where I can play through the same terrains with different characters with different abilities. Also, the show looks so damn pretty **** why couldn't it be done Colors style

 

[Espy Rose]

Man, you guys really do suck. Redesigns are fine.

 

[Camalange]

You are the one who sucks, Espy. They like, put Knuckles old head on a Shrek body.

You probably like new Crash too.

 

[infomon]

you know who really sucks?






sonic.

in ssb4.

 

[infomon]

.....!!!

wher b mai pokeymanz!!!>>?????????



!?!!?!?!?!?!?

Edit: Phew!!!! is still around. but needz mai psy-ay-ay!!!!!

also double-mc-post!!

Edit 2: Espizzlez lose to ike moar kthxbai

 

[Camalange]

Thank god for infzy.

These boards would have fallen into despair long ago if it wasn't for infzy keeping everything in check.

TYBi

 

[infomon]

Cama<3

soooooooo ssb4 who's gonna do it

are there Wii-U rigs to get frame data?

I think the first thing I'll go after is momentum-cancelling. I really hope they fixed that awful broken mess! But in case they didn't........

also ICs better come back. looks like they didn't change Sonic's moveset at all -- morons. Not sure I can take that...

 

[SoupaSonic]

I just want everything about Sonic to be faster in SSB4, faster attacking, maaaybe faster running speed for teh lulz and faster air speed. I can dig his moveset but I could use improvements.

Those stupid stupid bandages are bugging me more and more each day I don't understand what's the purpose. It's like they ran through some ancient mummy tombs and got caught up or something dumb. Idek. I can understand Knuckles having wraps on his fists n stuff that actually makes sense but wraps on Sonic's shoes? Like what??? And I feel like a bandanna woulda been more suiting for Sonic rather than a scarf if they wanted to give him some random accessory. I do kinda like the extra spines tho

ps I like Tails' new design as well as Amy's. Probs cuz they barely changed lol

 

[Camalange]

Oh, I plan on going balls deep into SSB4. I'm so ready for a resurgence. P:M and Melee are far bigger than Brawl, but SSB4 will probably be the final thing to put it to rest. I like Brawl more than Melee and P:M (but those are really all I get to play anymore since people will barely ever play Brawl, especially in NY) so I just need a new game to make things interesting again.

 

[infomon]

whoah. Dude! Time to update my info.... I live in Brooklyn now. Chances I'll catch you at a trouney = very high. Once a trouney happens. I..... probably should have apex'd?

<-- still mad about that

 

[Camalange]

whoah. Dude! Time to update my info.... I live in Brooklyn now. Chances I'll catch you at a trouney = very high. Once a trouney happens. I..... probably should have apex'd?

<-- still mad about that

Yo! We should like, finally Brawl irl or some **** cuz that'd be cool as heck. Most Smash events in NY are all like Melee/P:M but I think some host Brawl. I'm trying to find more things.

I was going to go to Apex, but then that didn't happen so, don't worry about it.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Sonic needs a spike in smash 4, obce that happen we win matches by default just because of it

 

[Espy Rose]

The first thing I'm checking is spin shield cancels.
Also, too busy playing Project Trash and Melee infzy. I won money this weekend.

 

[NH Cody]

__X__ went to a tourney btw

 

[Camalange]

The first thing I'm checking is spin shield cancels.

This.

All of this.

If they don't return I might be a hot mess.

 

[Espy Rose]

Yeah. I think they'll be back though. There's no way in hell that spin cancelling was an unintentional mechanic. That **** was blatantly programed in with that purpose. It'll be back for Smash 4.

 

[Camalange]

That's awfully optimistic. I hope you're right, buddy. I really do.

 

[infomon]

Sonic in ssb4: shield-cancelling side-B:

I expect shield cancels, although they might be different. They have shown both side-B and down-B.

It's hard to tell from the video they've shown, but it looks like the side-B startup frames are quickened. Compare:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7w5XUPHFoY&list=PLA1lIms2gwaDnOFGXUXtLj8KW5A4qNiKI&t=29s

vs. the frames I talk about here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ34M-Bdo6k&t=7m20s

During Brawl side-B startup, Sonic ducks his head, and for maybe a couple frames is spinning as a recognizable figure (you can see his shoes, head), and then at a specific frame he turns into an amorphous blue "spinning circle-saw". The first frame he's the amorphous-ball is the first frame you could be a shield instead (and if you did Grab (= shield + attack) input before that frame, it would have buffered a shield instead of letting you actually grab. That's why if you hit side-B and you want to grab, you have to wait a few frames before entering grab-input.)

In the new video, youtube doesn't give enough frames to tell but it looks like that startup-phase is almost gone. He crouches, and then is the amorphous-ball. So if we can shield-cancel that, either it can happen earlier, or it's not visibly obvious when it can happen.

----
Sonic in ssb4: other observations

In their video they don't seem to have changed Sonic himself at all, aside from a new look and the general physics being tweaked (actions look more sharp/discrete to me, but most of the attacks they show are so poorly spaced it's hard to tell anything about hitboxes (should we start calling them hitcircles in smash?)).

The video reveals lots of the usual side-B/down-B mechanics:
- down-B charges in-place, flashing big circles around to show how much charge)
- side-B pulls backwards while charging
- side-B and down-B transition to SDR on the ground, which transitions to ASC if he rolls off a ledge, which transitions to SDR on the ground, and landing onto the ground can sometimes do an instant SDR-turnaround
- the blue trail behind the spindash is still a thing, and probably still indicates whether or not the hitbox is active. If that's the case then we see again that SDR-turnaround has no hitbox.
- hitting stuff / going uphill in spindash slows it down which can shorten the length of time an SDR lasts
- screech-stop lag still sucks
- we can just baaaarely see that SDJ is still a thing, although they turn it into an up-air veeeery quickly. I'd love to believe that's an actual SDJ-becoming-a-Uair (which you can't do in Brawl), but I bet instead they were just jumping out of it and doing the Uair immediately. I don't think we can tell; he springs afterwards which doesn't tell us if Sonic still had a second jump after the Uair.
- no sign of VSDJ, or if SDJ has a hitbox, yet. Also very little information about ASC, no reason to believe it's any different yet.

-----
Other thoughts on ssb4:

It looks to me like they did a rather direct port of Brawl to Wii-U (does that even require a "port"? Maybe just a recompile? lol), i.e. they're starting from there and tweaking the mechanics to suit the minor, but intentional, change in style.

I expect it will be a lot like Brawl but with many of the glitches fixed, and hopefully a whole new set of glitches (to keep things interesting!!) What the heck would smash be without detail or nuance?? I have trouble imagining Brawl without:
- spinshot
- grab Sonic/Snake out of up-B glitch
- side-B-on-slope perpetual-invincibility
- side-B and up-smash invincibility frames (because who knows if they'll keep them)
- momentum-cancelling / bucket-braking
- grab-release / chaingrab gimmicks

Maybe this time, SDR will restore 2nd-jump data. Because I'm convinced that was an error. At the very least it was really stupid / confusing.

 

[infomon]

Camalange: since you're relatively close.. how about, immediately after ssb4 comes out, let's meet up for like a day / weekend and study as much as possible Sonic's mechanics. I can get the dazzle and/or whatever hardware will help us study framedata, at least to get some pretty good estimates on the important things. It would be fun to boost Sonic's meatgame as early and as hard as possible -- see if we can artificially keep him out of the ultra-low tier where he will ultimately belong.

Edit: and any other Sonics (or cool pplz) who want to come to NYC for a ssb4 release party weekend lolzfest. I have a small apt in Brooklyn but ppl can crash here or w/e.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm gonna be with my crew here in SA breaking apart Smash 4 the moment we get it.

 

[Camalange]

@ infomon - That sounds like a hoot and a half. It really depends on when the game comes out and where I'll be. I go to school in NY but if I'm in PA when it's released I guess it'd be a no go, but we'll play it by ear. I'm definitely down, though. Are you on Facebook or Twitter or anything?

 

[infomon]

I don't really facebook or twitter much, but I'll PM you for facebook. what months are you at school / what school?

I expect ssb4 to come out in like late october

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

im hoping smash 4 comes out between july-august, it will definitly be at E3 and given nintendo's current financial situation i'd assume they would want to get smash out the door ASAP, and considering mario kart arrives in may they need to keep a steady stream of good 1st party games coming and so far we know next to nothing about a lot of them other than smash and mario kart and brawl came out a month before mario kart wii and during that time frame the wii sold like hot cakes. It would be safe to assume they want to try and emulate that time frame as much as possible to get those sales numbers up.

But hopefully by the time smash 4 comes out i have recording equipment as i'd like to do a tutorial on how to use sonic for any beginning players who are unfamilar or struggle using sonic, even though he may be different than his brawl incarnation i'm sure a lot of the tactics used in brawl will still apply and as of late we haven't really seen too many sonic's around and a lot of its mostly because sonic's meta game thats recorded has been pretty outdated.

 

[JMan8891]

i just online has better netcode this time around. I'm fairly sure there will be a "competitive" scene around me for a few months when it drops... I just want to keep other players interested. Then i can ween them into Melee/PM, and eventually 64/Brawl. And then i can play each and every smash/host events with every game for my monthlies

one can hope...

 

[SoupaSonic]

Sooooooo Little Mac got revealed and Sonic is shown on the Smash site getting smacked with an uppercut in a screenshot. Which is kinda cool. I suppose

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

im happy simply because sonic finally has some facial expressions. and based on the 2014 copyright at the end im still convinced sonic was suppose to be announced in 2014 and that the footage in that trailer looks like old footage as star ko's aren't there yet on the website it's showing a picture of little mac hitting the screen. Really hoping sonic has some new moves as peach has a nw uair supposedly, and bowser is basically a whole new character.

 

[Espy Rose]

Sooooooo Little Mac got revealed and Sonic is shown on the Smash site getting smacked with an uppercut in a screenshot. Which is kinda cool. I suppose

At least now we know why he looks lankier in Sonic Boom.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Its at times like this when we get new characters that i wish sonic was a new character simply because this time the trailers are so much more appealing. But nonetheless im happy sonics back just really hope he has atleast one new move. And while sonic's side and down b function differently, i still hope they change it for the simple fact to give sonic more variety to his moveset, there are a lot if moves sakurai can draw from for sonics moves that he simply didnt use.

 

[Camalange]

I don't really facebook or twitter much, but I'll PM you for facebook. what months are you at school / what school?

I expect ssb4 to come out in like late october

Well, I might be staying in NY over the summer, so it'd be irrelevant anyway. I go to SVA.

Its at times like this when we get new characters that i wish sonic was a new character simply because this time the trailers are so much more appealing. But nonetheless im happy sonics back just really hope he has atleast one new move.

Yeah, I get that feel. Sonic's reveal trailer was just gameplay footage, which I guess is fine since he's a veteran. Technically he shouldn't have gotten a trailer at all being a veteran. His reveal trailer in Brawl wasn't as dramatic either, so it would've been sick to see a grand showcase the likes of Megaman and Little Mac. Oh well, I guess I was just relieved to know he was back. I'm hoping to see more changes with him as well though.

 

[Astronut]

Just wanted to drop by and say that even though I don't main Sonic, I decided to Sonic ditto a friend on Yoshi's in a recent tournament match. Long story short, I made the mistake of approaching first.

 

[Kuraudo]

So I came outta retirement to take 2nd place in Brawl Singles and Doubles at a tourney in Calgary.

Howdy folks! /flops to bed since I just got homezzzzzzz

 

[infomon]

Congrats!! only best sonic in Canada!!

 

[SoupaSonic]

I'm sorta outta retirement lol. I'll be back for Smash Bros Wii U for sure and imma try to make it to a brawl tourney sometime soon

 

[NH Cody]

I'm sorta outta retirement lol. I'll be back for Smash Bros Wii U for sure and imma try to make it to a brawl tourney sometime soon

there's a tourney this weekend in MA and another guy from CT is going.

 

[MeekSpeedy]

Congrats!! only best sonic in Canada!!

 

[infomon]

... !!!!!

OMG MEEK! sorry!! didn't realize you still played!!!!

glad you're still around! gonna rep steak in ssb4?

wheeeee canadian sonics!! :D

 

[Camalange]

Hey dudes, not Smash related, but I'd super appreciate it if you checked out the new video we just made. It's a parody of Twitch Plays Pokémon set to the movie Holes. We worked really hard on it and we're really proud of it. I love the r/twitchplayspokemon community and wanted to make a tribute to it that wasn't just a shameless ploy for views.

Reddit Link
YouTube Link

Thanks again guys <3 Not trying to spam, but most of us are at a point where there are clearly no ulterior motives so I just wanted to get input and what have you.

 

[MeekSpeedy]

... !!!!!

OMG MEEK! sorry!! didn't realize you still played!!!!

glad you're still around! gonna rep steak in ssb4?

wheeeee canadian sonics!! :D

idk, from the characters released so far, only him and rosalina look like my kinda style