SFSU Brawl Singles Bi-Weekly - May 10th (BRING WII + SSBB!)

[N4N3RZ]

Pirate ship has plenty of reasons to be banned.. the catapult, the random bombs that get shot at the boat, the low gravity part which can lead into easy upward kills...

 

[pockyD]

catapult is easily fine

low grav part is fine imo

bombs are the only legitimate argument i buy, but i don't think they're overly distracting, no more than getting shot at on corneria in melee

 

[CGCGrayfox]

You can just shield the lava. It's very obvious.

Also I've agrued that ANY balance-related argument for banning is invalid. Nobody's got anything to say to that? It saves us a whole lot of bullsh

itting about what's "broken" or not.

I agree with you dude. Being a pro at smash should measure adaptability. not just Final Destination.

You know guys this whole thing started simply as if we should allow Norfair to our banned list. That was the original question and only question. How all these other issues came up, I don't know. Our list will remain the same, but we will or will not amend Norfair. That is the only thing is question.

AGAIN: Here are this tournament's stage rules.

No Walk Offs.
No permanent Walls.
No excessive Randomness that changes the state of the game. ( Wario Ware)
No Stages the change the objective of the game (Cave of Life Gimmicks, 75m, New Pork City)

Norfair is under debate because of popular vote.

--------------------
NESJake, I don't know where your getting all these lists but you need to hear what people have to say, not always do what they say. It's impossible to satisfy everyone. Put up our original list, except put Delfino in count pick.

-------------------
PockyD, your rude. our tournaments are about the community and if you want to be part of this smash community your welcomed but we don't need your hovering opinions of our events

-------------------

 

[CGCGrayfox]

I felt the following had to be in a different post:

Next Friday April 25th, A Student Group " LA RAZA" is having a game night. This event cancels our Friday friendlies because of club priority. They are having a Brawl and Halo 3 tournament that day. I am running the tournament for them so I can promise your no ******** rules.

Double Elimination.
$10 entry. 50% pot return to the winners. ( not sure if it's top 2 or top 3 who get pay outs)
Starts 3pm to whenever it finishes ( as late at 9pm )
In our usual rooms

Again, I am running the tournament logistics but this is not an official CGC tournament. ( meaning if it sucks it's not my fault, lol ) I will however post the results on all is brawl.

 

[CGCGrayfox]

catapult is easily fine

low grav part is fine imo

bombs are the only legitimate argument i buy, but i don't think they're overly distracting, no more than getting shot at on corneria in melee

Agreed. Pirate ship I think it's a great counter pick stage. The Low Grav and catapult are no different then the laser of Metaknight's ship. If we banned stages for reason's like this we'd have like 3 levels to play on. Kinda lame.

 

[N4N3RZ]

So what is currently the official list for these biweeklys?

 

[pockyD]

PockyD, your rude. our tournaments are about the community and if you want to be part of this smash community your welcomed but we don't need your hovering opinions of our events

i'm not really sure what hovering opinions are

and i may have overstated my position; there's not much you can do in your circumstances

you have 6 hours to run multiple tournaments with 30 people (conjecture, i don't know how many people "normally" show up but i assume that it's gone up for brawl) and 3-4 TVs

because of this, you are in a severe time crunch if you want to get the tournament done (which from what i've heard doesn't get done anyway), and there will be no time and place for friendlies

what can you do in this situation? aside from getting more time or getting people to bring more TVs, not much, but while as the host, you "have" to play the hand you're dealt, as a player, i don't necessarily

it's just difficult to bring yourself to travel a good distance to go to a tournament when over the course of a day you'll probably play less than 10-15 games (if the TO intends to finish the tournaments)

 

[CGCGrayfox]

i'm not really sure what hovering opinions are

and i may have overstated my position; there's not much you can do in your circumstances

you have 6 hours to run multiple tournaments with 30 people (conjecture, i don't know how many people "normally" show up but i assume that it's gone up for brawl) and 3-4 TVs

because of this, you are in a severe time crunch if you want to get the tournament done (which from what i've heard doesn't get done anyway), and there will be no time and place for friendlies

what can you do in this situation? aside from getting more time or getting people to bring more TVs, not much, but while as the host, you "have" to play the hand you're dealt, as a player, i don't necessarily

it's just difficult to bring yourself to travel a good distance to go to a tournament when over the course of a day you'll probably play less than 10-15 games (if the TO intends to finish the tournaments)

There has been 1 incomplete tournament under my watch in the attempt to get doubles in for the players. We now know doubles is impossible within our time limit. We tried because the players asked and it's all about the players.

Of course everyone wants to play friendlies. That's why we have friendly Fridays. You should come on that day. Turns come around very quickly.

 

[pockyD]

i've been twice, and it finished once

and while i didn't go the most recent time, word is that didn't finish either

like i said, it's not just whether the tournament finishes or not (i'm unlikely to last to the end anyway), it's the fact that in order TO finish it, you have to squeeze out other things (friendlies or doubles)

and i have work on fridays and even if i didn't, i'm not sure i'd want to drive an hour two days in a row

 

[CGCGrayfox]

i've been twice, and it finished once

and while i didn't go the most recent time, word is that didn't finish either

like i said, it's not just whether the tournament finishes or not (i'm unlikely to last to the end anyway), it's the fact that in order TO finish it, you have to squeeze out other things (friendlies or doubles)

and i have work on fridays and even if i didn't, i'm not sure i'd want to drive an hour two days in a row

Summer hours might be better then 9 to 4, Then maybe we'll have time for doubles and regular friendlies.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

Pretty stupid for HowaitoKumaSan to say that there hasn't been a debate when I've been debating and he hasn't opened his mouth yet.

Pretty stupid for Hostility to point out something I never said.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I think the wall and walk-off edges thing is being overstated. Stages with walls or walk-off edges were NEVER banned in Melee ONLY for that reason. It just happened that those two things mostly were in already problematic stages. Indeed, Mushroom Kingdom II remained legal for the vast majority of the time, and even then it was never a universal ban, despite what you may things.

So, simply having a walk-off edge or a wall certainly contributes, but it isn't sufficient -by itself- to warrant a ban. Shadow Moses Island, for example, is a very simple stage that has walls. Yes, you will have to kill up most of the time. So? The only problem I can forsee is that huddling in the bottom corner with a stock advantage would be very difficult to counter. If that's such a great tactic, win a tourney with it, or at least win on it every time you counterpick it in tourney against people that aren't nubs, then talk to me.

People talk about DDD CG and whatnot but they don't want to give the metagame enough time to respond to it. Not to mention that I really doubt it's as strong a tactic as Wobbling, which for the most part went unbanned.

 

[Hostility]

So instead of debating over Skyworld and Norfair, you just throw both of them out entirely. Nice job.

You just said it

 

[Scamp]

There has been 1 incomplete tournament under my watch in the attempt to get doubles in for the players. We now know doubles is impossible within our time limit. We tried because the players asked and it's all about the players.

Of course everyone wants to play friendlies. That's why we have friendly Fridays. You should come on that day. Turns come around very quickly.

I think you can do a better job running the tournaments, and with the resources you have you could have finished both tournies last time. I don't know how hardcore you want to run the tournies, so I'll offer some advice I think will help.

Firstly, get more people to help you out. Two people is not enough, especially if both people are in the tourney as well. You can probably get one person on each TV, if not that then one person for two TVs. This person can make sure that friendly matches do not happen. This also eliminates the annoying distraction of having people ask "is this a tourney match" while you're in the middle of a tourney match.

Call matches, and also have a match ready to go as soon as that match is finished. Simple, easy, saves time.

Do not run doubles at the same time as singles. Needlessly complicated.

Do not wait for or allow people into the tourney 2 hours late. Or, if you're going to do this, run doubles first. People generally aren't so sad if they miss doubles. Add to this - if people haven't shown up by the time doubles and the first round of singles is over, screw 'em.


I think these tips will help things go better next time.

 

[CGCGrayfox]

I think you can do a better job running the tournaments, and with the resources you have you could have finished both tournies last time. I don't know how hardcore you want to run the tournies, so I'll offer some advice I think will help.

Firstly, get more people to help you out. Two people is not enough, especially if both people are in the tourney as well. You can probably get one person on each TV, if not that then one person for two TVs. This person can make sure that friendly matches do not happen. This also eliminates the annoying distraction of having people ask "is this a tourney match" while you're in the middle of a tourney match.

Call matches, and also have a match ready to go as soon as that match is finished. Simple, easy, saves time.

Do not run doubles at the same time as singles. Needlessly complicated.

Do not wait for or allow people into the tourney 2 hours late. Or, if you're going to do this, run doubles first. People generally aren't so sad if they miss doubles. Add to this - if people haven't shown up by the time doubles and the first round of singles is over, screw 'em.


I think these tips will help things go better next time.

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely take it for our next bi weeklies. Though this is my last year at state and that will only leave NESJake to run these. So hopefully before i'm gone we got more people wanting to help. =)

 

[CGCGrayfox]

I think the wall and walk-off edges thing is being overstated. Stages with walls or walk-off edges were NEVER banned in Melee ONLY for that reason. It just happened that those two things mostly were in already problematic stages. Indeed, Mushroom Kingdom II remained legal for the vast majority of the time, and even then it was never a universal ban, despite what you may things.

So, simply having a walk-off edge or a wall certainly contributes, but it isn't sufficient -by itself- to warrant a ban. Shadow Moses Island, for example, is a very simple stage that has walls. Yes, you will have to kill up most of the time. So? The only problem I can forsee is that huddling in the bottom corner with a stock advantage would be very difficult to counter. If that's such a great tactic, win a tourney with it, or at least win on it every time you counterpick it in tourney against people that aren't nubs, then talk to me.

People talk about DDD CG and whatnot but they don't want to give the metagame enough time to respond to it. Not to mention that I really doubt it's as strong a tactic as Wobbling, which for the most part went unbanned.

Interesting about the walk off's in Melee. So why were those walk off's banned? ( seriously, I have no clue ). If we can isolate true reason's to ban stages. Though for me, the number 1 reason that makes brawl stages unplayable it's D3's chain grab. There are other arguements of course.

 

[Hostility]

I think the wall and walk-off edges thing is being overstated. Stages with walls or walk-off edges were NEVER banned in Melee ONLY for that reason. It just happened that those two things mostly were in already problematic stages. Indeed, Mushroom Kingdom II remained legal for the vast majority of the time, and even then it was never a universal ban, despite what you may things.

So, simply having a walk-off edge or a wall certainly contributes, but it isn't sufficient -by itself- to warrant a ban. Shadow Moses Island, for example, is a very simple stage that has walls. Yes, you will have to kill up most of the time. So? The only problem I can forsee is that huddling in the bottom corner with a stock advantage would be very difficult to counter. If that's such a great tactic, win a tourney with it, or at least win on it every time you counterpick it in tourney against people that aren't nubs, then talk to me.

People talk about DDD CG and whatnot but they don't want to give the metagame enough time to respond to it. Not to mention that I really doubt it's as strong a tactic as Wobbling, which for the most part went unbanned.

Comparing wobbling in melee and the infinite grab against walls in brawl doesn't really work, because in melee it was harder to get the grab off than it is in brawl. Shield pressure is not as reliable in brawl, and wobbling could only be done from a shield grab with both ice climbers present. Dedede on the other hand can get the grab while being the aggressor or the defender, and there are no other requirements other than getting a grab. So chainthrowing to the blast zone or into a wall is much easier than waveshining to the blast zone or wall infinites or wobbling in melee. The setup is easier, and the execution is easier.

 

[Hostility]

Interesting about the walk off's in Melee. So why were those walk off's banned? ( seriously, I have no clue ). If we can isolate true reason's to ban stages. Though for me, the number 1 reason that makes brawl stages unplayable it's D3's chain grab. There are other arguements of course.

My guess would be a combination of fox waveshines, DK's cargo throws, and camping near the blast zones. Not sure of the official reasons though. And I think DK's cargo throw is another good reason to ban walk off stages.

 

[WassupJB]

check out my combo vid yall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGuAb4Sx8p4

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Comparing wobbling in melee and the infinite grab against walls in brawl doesn't really work, because in melee it was harder to get the grab off than it is in brawl. Shield pressure is not as reliable in brawl, and wobbling could only be done from a shield grab with both ice climbers present. Dedede on the other hand can get the grab while being the aggressor or the defender, and there are no other requirements other than getting a grab. So chainthrowing to the blast zone or into a wall is much easier than waveshining to the blast zone or wall infinites or wobbling in melee. The setup is easier, and the execution is easier.

I don't see how you can say "comparing them doesn't work" and then go on to make your OWN comparison. There's nothing tricky about what I'm saying. Is DDD's CG in Brawl as or more powerful than Wobbling in Melee? You have the option of picking a character than doesn't get CG'd, just like you have the option of picking a character that doesn't get waveshined with Fox. But it doesn't matter anyway, because all this is just theorycraft. It's not evidence. I'm just asking that question so we have SOMETHING to gauge it against when the tourney results start happening. Again....if it's so great, then let's see it win tournaments. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean anything.

Grayfox:

It just happened that all the stages with walkoffs had a bunch of other really stupid stuff going on at the same time. For most of them it wasn't ONE particular reason. Hyrule was banned for multiple problems, each of which ALONE would have gotten it banned. Green Greens, in my opinion, has a number of smaller problems, each of which by themselves don't warrant a ban, but the sum of all of them do. Personally even in Melee, I wouldn't support banning a stage like Bridge of Eldin.

 

[Hostility]

I'm pretty sure explaining why you can't compare the two and giving reasons for that isn't comparing them. And why wait to get gayed up in a tournament when I've already played good dedede players and had this happen to me? I don't want to lose a single match because of something that I already know is going to happen.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I'm pretty sure explaining why you can't compare the two and giving reasons for that isn't comparing them. And why wait to get gayed up in a tournament when I've already played good dedede players and had this happen to me? I don't want to lose a single match because of something that I already know is going to happen.

"the set up is easier, the execution is easier." How is that not comparing them? I don't understand what else this can possibly mean but comparing the ease of setting up and executing the CG and the Wobble to one another.

As for "Why wait?: Because your or anyone else's personal conviction that something is going to happen is not evidence. Because it's just plain shortsighted and reactionary to not let the metagame have a chance to respond. Real evidence happens in tournaments, not in friendlies or in people's heads. That's how evidence works. It has to be a controlled, unbiased, and repeatable environment. If you don't want to lose a single match to it, I dunno what to tell you, that's just self-righteous. With your mentality we would have banned chaingrabbing in Melee as soon as we discovered it. We didn't and we discovered ways around it. We didn't find them immediately, certainly not within a single month...and this was a game that had been out for years, whose mechanics were well understood, as opposed to Brawl.

 

[N4N3RZ]

check out my combo vid yall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGuAb4Sx8p4

Nice vid :D

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

You just said it

I was talking about how Jake foolishly banned both levels instead of debating at all. How you got that I said no debate was made is beyond me.

 

[shadowlink3]

sky world is horrible. end of story. norfair every1 dislikes, but its pretty easy to avoid the lava. its like brinstar in melee. just have to watch yourself. and if you dont like the level, you can personally ban it. sky world, my problem with it is that you can break the stage ya, but you cant go though it, and you can easily gimp some1 by breaking the stage so they cant recover, pretty cheap imo. bridge of elden, i just dont want a tourny of all d3 counterpicking the **** stage for a cheap win. you know? i rather them pick castle siege, sense only 1 part of the level is walk off.

 

[pockyD]

lol at "end of story"

if they break the stage, you can go through the clouds
and the lower platform (the one that goes back and forth, not the wide middle platform) actually really helps recovery

the only people that get shafted bigtime are tether characters, but that's what counterpicks are for; it doesn't really matter if 1-2 chars are severely disadvantaged, it matters much more if 1-2 chars are at an extreme advantage, which i'd argue is not true of skyworld (once again, not saying it shouldn't be banned, but i'm saying that the reasons given so far don't seem justifiable)

 

[Samus Syndrome]

I'm guessing I missed something... So why is Corneria banned?(not trying to make things worse but I'm just wondering)

BTW: I am planning to go this tourney, finally

 

[pockyD]

probably walls + dedede, but i don't really buy that reasoning

 

[NESJake]

pockyD, you should of seen the disappointing last match at our last tournament on corneria. it was a camping nightmare. Everybody was shouting STOP CAMPING!!! King Dedede was camping waiting to get diddy in a chaingrab lock. Also... i think fox can infinite shine against a wall.

 

[syra76]

Idea

Cris, I have to agree with Pocky with the tournaments not ending. I would say we need to start being as5holes if anyone is playing friendlies during tourny matches. Friendlies are for before the tourney, at your house after the tournament, or on Fridays in our rooms.

When I hosted, I prevented all friendlies on lagless TVs (thanks to Hyuga's help when I hosted!), but even then we had to stop at winners finals for singles (but we finished doubles!). We need more SSBBs and Wiis. If the players are going to bit*h, I would suggest that you guys try bringing YOUR wiis and SSBB's to help. Nobody is going to steal sh*t. We essentially have an infinite supply of tables, TVs, and chairs but we need you guys to get wiis. Blame yourselves, not us.

This is exactly why I quit hosting. We put our own FREE time to get smash out, create a learning environment, etc. I welcome all criticism that is constructive, but we cannot break the university rules which says ONLY 9-4 on weekends. If we go over, we have to pay for the custodial services - anyone here want to split like a $300 bill? No, didn't think so. For those of you who don't know, there is a HUGE (UBER HUGE) budget cut coming up for UCs and CSUs. SFSU has started taking a forward approach and is limiting hours on weekends so it will have to pay less for administration (the people at the info desk that get us our electronics and the janitors - not to mention electrical costs). We can get a room for the weekday that is avaialable all day because the aforementioned paid positions last until late night anyways on weekdays, but then no one can come. D4mned if we try to work it out d4mned if we don't?

pockyD, please read this. Do not skip my post b/c it is a long, informed rant. I don't hate you or anything, and this is generalized to all those cried about not finishing when I hosted. You're in the room the whole time, why can't you bring your wii + SSBB too?

As for the stage issues: SSBM > SBBB. 'nuff said.

 

[shadowlink3]

I brough my wii last time... i told Chris in the begining, then he needed it for later, but 1 thing did go missing at sfsu, the little open close thing that goes for gamecube ports on my wii is gone... but its no biggy. lol ya i agree with you tho, more propble should bring wii's so tourny can go smoother and such, and we can get it out of the way, instead of having a sad early end, even tho we did cut it till 4:30, witch i was pretty happy they let us do that.

 

[CGCGrayfox]

I brough my wii last time... i told Chris in the begining, then he needed it for later, but 1 thing did go missing at sfsu, the little open close thing that goes for gamecube ports on my wii is gone... but its no biggy. lol ya i agree with you tho, more propble should bring wii's so tourny can go smoother and such, and we can get it out of the way, instead of having a sad early end, even tho we did cut it till 4:30, witch i was pretty happy they let us do that.

I might have your game cube thing. Ill check =) And thanks for bringing your wii!

Also, guys, this is my last semester. I'm only host for like 2 or 3 more tournament then we got to find new leadership. That also means 2 less wiis. All the supplies will still be there but it up to you players to tap those resources. =)

 

[pockyD]

pockyD, please read this. Do not skip my post b/c it is a long, informed rant. I don't hate you or anything, and this is generalized to all those cried about not finishing when I hosted. You're in the room the whole time, why can't you bring your wii + SSBB too?

i've already said i haven't been to a brawl biweekly yet, and i DID bring my setup when they were melee tournaments (there were always more setups than TVs), and i would bring it for any brawl tournament i go to

i don't know why you really really wanted me to read your post (and if you really WANT someone to read a long post, put your request at the start and not the end; if i didn't want to read it, would've never gotten to the part where you asked me to ) - i'm aware of the time and TV issues imposed by the university and i'm also aware that it's reasonable to finish the tournament given that you kick people off friendlies constantly; i'm just saying that driving a good distance to a tournament i'm not going to win (face it i'm not good) and not get any friendlies because they gotta do what they gotta do to finish up isn't a great way to spend a saturday for me, and at the same time i can't in good conscience support having a tournament that has a good chance of not finishing

 

[Sky`]

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

Look, lets forget about all this and focus on the more important issue.
Sky's peach is pretty awesome. =]
Kgo.​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

 

[kamekasu]

probably walls + dedede, but i don't really buy that reasoning

Plus camping the lasers.

 

[NoR4U29]

Chris I heard there is going to be TOA vs PBS. Well, since we plan on doing TLA vs TOA you should record the matches. Or atleast someone. lol. Though it usually takes more than ten minutes to do one.

 

[NESJake]

Chris I heard there is going to be TOA vs PBS. Well, since we plan on doing TLA vs TOA you should record the matches. Or atleast someone. lol. Though it usually takes more than ten minutes to do one.

chris! you don't tell me anything! or whitebear apparently!

 

[CGCGrayfox]

ATTENTION:

This Friday is a special " LA RAZA game Night". as a result our normal friendly fridays are cancelled for this week but you are more then welcomed to attend our game night tournaments sponsored by LA RAZA ( Ran by me )

Brawl Singles Double Elimination $10 3PM. Our same rooms.

Halo 4 v 4 Team Slayer - Double Elimination $ 40 per team ( $10 per player) Our Same rooms.

50% collected by La Raza. 50% return to players.

Spectator : $ 5

There will also be a casual gamer room ( NES and VC games and such )

NoR4RU , because I need to run this event I don't think we'll have time for a crew battle but if you all happen to play in this special event, we can have it after singles. =) . If not definitely next week.

 

[CGCGrayfox]

chris! you don't tell me anything! or whitebear apparently!

We we're talking about it casually in conversation. I didn't realize we were actually challenged to a crew battle myself. LOL! in any case, I doubt we will have the room for it this friday. If we do, it will have to be on the fly. =/ Next friday would be alot better.

 

[$nuggles]

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

Look, lets forget about all this and focus on the more important issue.
Sky's peach is pretty awesome. =]
Kgo.​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

Best. Post. I. Have. Ever. Seen.

Crimbing the mountain, never coming down
Break into the contents, never farring down...

As for the stage issues: SSBM > SBBB. 'nuff said.

Sow Tru.

On a side note. Harold & Kumar 2 on Friday biiiiiiiiiiaaaatches. Get your bongs ready.