Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Halfminded]

Goddamit, I looked at the video and thought that the only dash option is to dash towards the opponent for some reason. I can see how this is useful now.
Another option to add to our arsenal! I've always pretty much had trouble reacting to punishing people getting out of the dtilt trap, so this might help. Maybe.

I'm also math-ing out the frame data behind these OSs, and unless I'm reading the data completely wrong (which is entirely possible) they look like they have a very tight window to escape.
Tippered Dtilt says minimum 8 frame advantage on shield, and SB hits on frame 19. So assuming I'm still correct, that's 11 actionable frames between the hits, and shield takes 7 frames to drop. Thus if you don't buffer shield drop/spotdodge/roll, you have 4 frames to act or get your shield broken. (Disregard my rambling)
(Someone please correct me if any of this is incorrect)

 

[Vipermoon]

I saw the video. I'll have to learn this option select real quick. Maybe it can be useful. We should also create our own OSs because I'm sure it can be expanded.

Curry, Dtilt range matches Brawl. But yeah to answer to your question (and this is also addressed to Fallen Hero again), ROB is not a losing MU. It's either even or slightly in Marth's favor (IMO, but probably even). Marth shouldn't care too much about the projectiles and once he gets in ROB gets much easier (and off-stage stuff is easy against ROB). I used to think ROB was a hard MU in the beginning of Smash 4 but I got better at the MU (and at the game) against ROBs on FG and in friendlies against a decent ROB in my region.

Halfminded, very wrong. It's not an 8 frame advantage. It's a disadvantage. I don't remember if the number is currently 8 frames but yeah. Also, that number isn't for OoS, it already includes the 7 frame shield drop.

 

[Halfminded]

Halfminded, very wrong. It's not an 8 frame advantage. It's a disadvantage. I don't remember if the number is currently 8 frames but yeah. Also, that number isn't for OoS, it already includes the 7 frame shield drop.

Thank you for the correction, I was concerned about how good this was sounding. But now I know!


Edit: I also slapped on a grab onto that SB option select, not sure if that's useful in any capacity

 

[A_Kae]

Dtilt is -12 untipped and -13 tipped. With shield drop, that's -5 and -6.

 

[CURRY]

Well, from what I remember, even in Brawl, we were at a frame disadvantage at a math-y standpoint, but we can easily punish their human reactions because you know, that adds.. a lot of frames.

I just realized that I should use dtilt more often than I currently do.
If I do a dtilt and try to walk backwards though, the IASA frames are weird and don't interrupt, and I still go through the whole animation of dtilt if I try to buffer a walk backwards after it. Interrupting the dtilt's full animation still works when I walk forwards though, it's weird.

 

[PEACE7]

Any good marth players wanna give me some mu exp online?

 

[FallenHero]

Any good marth players wanna give me some mu exp online?

We can help you out with some MUs, but unless you are talking about playing Marth dittos with us I am not sure most of us can help with experience.

 

[Vipermoon]

Well, from what I remember, even in Brawl, we were at a frame disadvantage at a math-y standpoint, but we can easily punish their human reactions because you know, that adds.. a lot of frames.

I just realized that I should use dtilt more often than I currently do.
If I do a dtilt and try to walk backwards though, the IASA frames are weird and don't interrupt, and I still go through the whole animation of dtilt if I try to buffer a walk backwards after it. Interrupting the dtilt's full animation still works when I walk forwards though, it's weird.

Yeah it's because you buffer it too early. Just do it a bit later. The buffer is a 10 frame window.

 

[HFlash]

Any good marth players wanna give me some mu exp online?

You know, there's a social thread on the Marth boards for that. I'd be happy to help you out.

 

[ben1707]

How is that video that you guys are talking about called? I've been looking for it all over the front page and I can't seem to find it.

 

[PEACE7]

You know, there's a social thread on the Marth boards for that. I'd be happy to help you out.

Alright dude dope

 

[Halfminded]

How is that video that you guys are talking about called? I've been looking for it all over the front page and I can't seem to find it.

Hitpause OS
https://youtu.be/QqnAIOyhTu4

 

[ben1707]

Hitpause OS
https://youtu.be/QqnAIOyhTu4

Thank you!!

 

[Saki-]

DI in which direction to avoid throw to knee? I assumed away got caught

 

[SilverForUbers]

DI in which direction to avoid throw to knee? I assumed away got caught

At certain % it's guaranteed no matter how you DI. But generally you want to DI away.

 

[FallenHero]

I think in my neutral game I am going to try doing a lot more of baiting shields so that I can get a shield break. Usually when someone blocks an attack they would expect them to attempt to avoid getting punished, but instead just throw out shieldbreaker.

 

[Saki-]

At certain % it's guaranteed no matter how you DI. But generally you want to DI away.

Thanks!

that's what i've been doing, was just making sure there wasnt a variant that netted more % or something, thanks

He lies, Charizard is his new bae now. </3

Eyyy forgot I was the last one to post. RIP

 

[FallenHero]

@ HFlash that profile picture is ****ing amazing. "Straight outta Altea, crazy motha****a named Marth. From gang called swordsmen with attitude".

 

[HFlash]

@ HFlash that profile picture is ****ing amazing. "Straight outta Altea, crazy motha****a named Marth. From gang called swordsmen with attitude".

LMAO, why thank you kind sir . Here is the website where I did it from in case you wanna do your own personal "Straight outta _____" : http://www.straightouttasomewhere.com

I wasn't sure what was the best pic of Marth to use for this, thought this one had a bit a class. Open to suggestions.

I think in my neutral game I am going to try doing a lot more of baiting shields so that I can get a shield break. Usually when someone blocks an attack they would expect them to attempt to avoid getting punished, but instead just throw out shieldbreaker.

Doing SB from the ledge is God Like, no one ever really expects it

 

[Shaya]

Lol I had that marth as my avatar for a little recently, nice choice~
Although you should make it a transparent background.

 

[HFlash]

I was lazy, and used the above website to do it. Doesn't give an option to change the background though . I guess I should look up "how to photoshop for dummies" handbook. And yea, your default is where I got the idea from. You do change avatars frequently but I gotta say, I prefer the ones with his highness (especially the Kirby one, WHERE DO YOU FIND THAT?).

 

[Shaya]

Pixiv mining.
And it was meta knight :3

 

[FallenHero]

This profile pic is artwork of one of the saddest moments I have ever seen in a video game.

 

[HFlash]

Metal Gear Solid?

 

[Reizilla]

Won two sets with Marth today. I think one of them might've been recorded. I got destroyed by a Rosalina though. How do I play that matchup? It's so bad for Duck Hunt, but all my Marth habits got wrecked by Luma

 

[Halfminded]

Doing SB from the ledge is God Like, no one ever really expects it

I'll pull it out after a few ledgehop fairs. 90% I get something positive out of it.

 

[A_Kae]

Won two sets with Marth today. I think one of them might've been recorded. I got destroyed by a Rosalina though. How do I play that matchup? It's so bad for Duck Hunt, but all my Marth habits got wrecked by Luma

http://smashboards.com/threads/vs-rosalina-matchup-discussion-and-analysis.414165/

Read the posts in that thread. It might help you get some new ideas on how to fight Rosalina.

 

[FallenHero]

Metal Gear Solid?

Yeah. MGS3 is such a great game...

 

[Zano]

Shaya why didn't you tell me you were a nep nep ***, we were truly meant to be

 

[FallenHero]

How would you guys feel if there was L-Canceling in this game? It would REALLY be good for Marth, but in general would you feel about it being in the game? I would definitely like having L-Canceling, it would especially be good for a lot of the slower characters in the game (I'm looking at you Charizard and Ganondorf), maybe even bump them up by a lot on tier lists.

 

[Reizilla]

It would be terrible. Worst mechanic in the history of smash. Worse than planking too.

 

[Shaya]

I for the most part vehemently dislike L cancelling as an arbitrary tech skill mechanic.
Making the safest characters even safer and with more ability to combo enhances them further than what slower characters get (usually).

I'd rather have intelligent auto cancels.

 

[Vipermoon]

But mathematically the laggiest (on landing) characters would benefit the most from it. Example: Bowser's Bair going from 40 to 20 making it completely safe to land with being a 19% move (and he desperately needs that). Vs Mario's Nair going from 10 to 5.

On the other end of the spectrum, basically what Shaya said with the combos... Bowser won't get combos from that still but Mario's would be deadly(er) with just 5 more frames.

 

[FallenHero]

I for the most part vehemently dislike L cancelling as an arbitrary tech skill mechanic.
Making the safest characters even safer and with more ability to combo enhances them further than what slower characters get (usually).

I'd rather have intelligent auto cancels.

Yeah I guess your right. It would make some characters like Mario and others with god-like frame data way too good.

 

[Zano]

if sheik could L cancel in this game I just wouldn't even bother playing, **** that

 

[HFlash]

Not only that, but I really do like the fact that there aren't any techs in Smash 4 that you absolutely have to know like L canceling, wavedashing, and such like you have in melee. This game is much more attractive and easier to get to for newcomers, since you can place solidly in a tournaments. If you want a highly technical game, play melee. Smash 4/Melee and and League/Dota sort of have a synonymous relationship. Those who are entering the scene, tend to choose the newer, easier to play, and the fan base for the older game constantly points out that their game is more technical, hence it is better. Despite being a "noob game" as described by Dota fans, League somehow happens to be quite literally, the most popular game in the world.

 

[Zano]

I mean I'll forever be tight that we can't platform cancel anymore, main reason I ain't maining marth

 

[Vipermoon]

Ledge drop Fair (used heavily in Brawl) is still super useful (I'm not talking about drop double jump Fair). No one is expecting it or reacting to it. I think people are too scared of losing invincibility.

 

[SilverForUbers]

I actually find drop double jump Fair > uair a great combo starter on the ledge since most people won't be expect it.

 

[Zano]

what kind of players are you guys playing against near the ledge? I wanna play those people