Scrub-Proof: The Competitive Ike Thread: Take Cover Here! -MOTD: Up Tilt!

[Academic Sake]

I'm a huge fan of fair especially against projectile spammers like Pit.

But could you explain the benefits of up-tilt? I'm not sure what opportunities are best for applying it.

 

[Ussi]

up tilt is used a shield from attacks from above. Also i use it when the foe has high enough damage to vertically kill them when i need a move faster than up smash. But its limited in reach, Up smash i'd say has more uses but Up tilt is one of Ike's FAST moves. So you can try to follow up with it to *gasp* combo with it. jab cancel up tilt can throw people of guard too. nair to Up tilt exists. thats about it i'd say.

 

[XSilvenX]

I'm a huge fan of fair especially against projectile spammers like Pit.

But could you explain the benefits of up-tilt? I'm not sure what opportunities are best for applying it.

Opponent on platform above you on Battlefield a little near the edge of the platform...upsmash is too slow and upair is too predictable...so you.. use uptilt..hopefully they shield and tumble off...when they tumble they most likely won't do crap since they never expect it, they will bounce on the floor and you get a free f-tilt. I do this all the time

 

[3xSwords]

lol almost nobody techs when they fall from a platform.

 

[Academic Sake]

Opponent on platform above you on Battlefield a little near the edge of the platform...upsmash is too slow and upair is too predictable...so you.. use uptilt..hopefully they shield and tumble off...when they tumble they most likely won't do crap since they never expect it, they will bounce on the floor and you get a free f-tilt. I do this all the time

Wow... good to know. And I don't know if it's discussed in any other threads but are there other stages where this applies?

 

[fire_wulf]

Wow... good to know. And I don't know if it's discussed in any other threads but are there other stages where this applies?

Lets see.... i use it on Lylat... I think it works on the Pokemon Stadiums.. not for sure though..

I don't have a list but i just use Uptilt for platform abuse. If someone is above you on a platform, try uptilt and see if it will hit. If it does they are knocked up in the air.

One of my favorite things to do after an uptilt is to uptilt again since they normaly don't go high enough to get off a Uair.

My favorite story with the uptilt happened on Battlefield. My friend was playing DDD and was on the opposite side of the stage. I was on the very edge and starting charging quick draw. I don't know what he was thinking but he didn't throw any waddles to stop my approach.. so i just kept charging. He jumped up onto the platform and just waited. So i am sitting there with a full charged QD saying "How far can i go.. how far can i go" just taunting him. I release it.. and yell "THIS FAR!!" and follow the empty QD with an uptilt. Perfect distance.. perfect hit. He was high enough damage that he died and i won the match. It was so funny we just started laughing.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Hey guys. No move of the day on weekends(Fridays and Satursdays). Lots aren't going to be around to contribue then, including myself.

Weekends = total open discussion ?

Move of the day is DOWN SMASH!

I believe down smash is good move when used for pure punishing. I basically use it to punish attacks or any unsafe move in which there is SLIGHTLY enough time to do something besides Jab and punish them. It is slightly faster than up tilt and faster than forward tilt as well. It does not have it's hower, but it can KO a lot of characters at around 120%. Fast enough to interupt offensive pressure(IE: when a move IS safe, but decide to continue to attack instead of block) and catchers rollers(though I never really use it for that.)

It's lack f range really sucks, so try to use it only when the opponent is close, or you will miss. Popular moves it's pretty good for punishing is Marth's sword dance, Snake's dash attack(without the up smash cancel), and Fox's up smash.

 

[nitro-blazer]

Roll prediction works nicely with D-smash... If you're really good F-smash hits harder though, but D-smash is usually a safer bet.

 

[Nyjin]

*waves* Hello Ike Boards! Just wanted to share my thoughts today since I just joined the boards. Just had my first tourney (As Ike, down in SD), and got 7th place out of 49 people (People like DSF, Edge, and Ajax were there ;P). Okay, just had to put that there to show I'm not a complete noob, haha. So, the move of the day...D-smash? I think it has it's uses, it's his quickest smash move for sure even if it's his weakest. The range is pretty bad on it so you would probably only use it if someone accidentally rolled into you or someone's spamming rolls. Don't think it's that good for racking up damage, and should only be used as a move it mix-it-up when trying to KO somebody. I mean, if you miss the first hit your opponent will have a pretty decent window to hit you. All in all, it's an okay move. Situational at best, in my opinion.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Just a note. When a move is clearly and important one for Ike, more people's info on the move will be put onto page 1.

IE: You can expect Jab or Fair to have way more information quoted on page one from more people than Eruption or down tilt.

 

[Academic Sake]

Sorry to get side tracked from the down smash discussion but it doesn't seem to be flowing anyways; what does everyone think of Ike's running A? I like it because most people underestimate the range of the attack but from what I've read fair and nair are generally better options for approach. So then when would be the best time to use running A?

 

[VersatileBJN]

Yeah down Smash probably isnt going to go very far when it comes to in depth analysis. I'll duel MOTD dash attack and down smash

Dash attack is useful. Good for catching people off guard obviously. It's best to do it so that you go THROUGH them so shield grabbing is a little harder. Just having it as a threat is nice for setting up grabs. It's pretty much common sense when to use it and when not to. Be smart about it, and definitely don't spam. Beats out some weaker projectiles.

 

[fire_wulf]

Would love to help with the down smash.. but that is the one move that i need to learn to use with every single one of my characters. I just forget to use it.. even to abuse people who role dodge. When i use it... it is nice for the sake of throwing them off there game... but if they are low damage... they can punish you if you hit them with the front half and not the back since they can recover fairly quickly. I think it is a great move when your opponent is at mid to high damage.

Dash attack is purely used as an unexpected approach. I like to vary approaches from dash attack.. SH Nair.. spaced Full hopped Fair.. RAR Bair.. and running shield grab. It is great if they are getting back down to the ground and you know you can't reach them with any aerial approach before they have time to shield. Decent knock back when hit with the middle. I like it.. but like Versatile said... don't spam.. use it smart and sparingly

 

[metroid1117]

DSmash is great for punishing rolls, as people have mentioned. It's also nice to do it out of a jab combo when your opponent is at the edge; jab -> jab -> DSmash can catch people who are trying to SDI the third hit and aren't shielding, or it can punish rollers with the back hit. By the way, the back hit is more powerful than the front it. It's also a nice killer if you're having trouble getting that kill when your opponent is playing "don't get hit;" it's probably the fastest ground move he has, save his dreaded jab.

Dash attack is awkward, but it is useful for punishing people who like to roll/tech away from you because Ike gets a huge forward boost from using it; QD is . Unfortunately, he doesn't get the momentum that would make boost smashing (canceling dash attack with USmash) useful. It's also nice to use when your opponent is going for the edge from above, thinking that Ike won't be able to reach them; at that distance, a QD would hit them and help them because they can DI upwards and have the option of landing on the stage. It is, however, horribly laggy; I wouldn't advise using this as an approach because it's easily shielded/avoided and punished.

By the way, I haven't been to any tournies and only play my friends (but they go to tournies and I play evenly with them), so I don't mind if my comment isn't posted on the front.

 

[senjiroth]

D-Smash: i love using D-smash to opponents that expects ike to do an up-smash... this move is one of those mix-it-up moves... know its range because once u whiff its an easy punishment from your opponents.... like everyone said, its good to punish rollers but up-smash works better imho... also it kills at high percentage... be wary that the 2nd hit is stronger and like what fire_wulf said, use it at mid-high percentage coz the first hit doesnt have enough knockback at low percent..

Dash Attack: Learn the range of this move.... its a good mix-it-up approach to unexpected opponents like what versatile and fire_wulf said... i like using this to a marth that just hit the ground after using a SH FF N-air bc the lag is good enough for the dash attack to hit marth.. im not sure if it works on good ppl tho coz the only marth player is my friend and on online play, but i dont believe on online play bc of the natural lag it has xd... another thing i do with this is to purposely go thru the opponent that is expecting a dash attack then do a revere running grab but im not sure if this is a good tactic, coz i barely do this.. WATCH OUT if you whiff or got shielded! use wisely!

 

[Ussi]

dash attack is excellent to attack someone who just hit the floor. And its good to do a quick dash attack cause it comes out of no where. Its great since its deceiving. Great to attack someone who standing about a uncharged quick draw distance away. Since QD is bad to approach with, dash attack. But spamming is bad since there is a considerable amount of lag to be punished.

Down smash is just an alternative to up smash for rollers. Its better though since its 2nd hit is REALLY strong. Good when you abuse Up smash to rack damage too.

 

[ama(m/t)]

this topic sucks and silven sucks at smash bros

 

[3xSwords]

I find dash attack to be a very good approach method to clear out campers. Take Din's Fire for ex. So Zelda's spamming sideB. I run while perfect shielding, then when I'm in the range I do a dash attack quickly so that the max range of the attack hits Zelda while she is doing the initial frames of the sideB. This works b/c the opponent won't really expect the range to be that long, and also b/c the lag of the dash attack where he sort of pauses can throw off where they are aiming with their projectile. And then suddenly you accelerate forward doing your dash attack. Use it once in a while, because if they shield, They can get a free hit. Down Smash...punish rollers/spotdodgers, jab cancel->d-smash, do it out of shield. Besides that I don't know what D-smash is good for. Oh yeah also have any of you guys ever play a spotdodging spammer? My friend does and its getting really annoying esp. spotdodge->d-smash. I punish him sometimes, but I have yet to find a definite punisher to this tactic. B/c usually I punish the lag of the d-smash.

 

[The Crotch]

First off - I am hearting this thread.

Second, I'm a long way from the best Ike in the world, so I haven't got a whole helluva lot to add.

On Eruption: This attack angers me greatly. Ike doesn't have anything even remotely resembling it in his games - it exists solely to tie him to Roy (who also didn't have any fire-based attacks in his game). A **** shame, when neutral B COULD have been the ranged attack that Ike uses in FE9 and FE10.

What, you want me to talk about the attack's uses? Oh. In that case, let's move on to...

Down Tilt: Not something I use a lot - unless I'm playing on Aero Dive. I get a certain sadistic pleasure using this on an enemy trying to recover through the main platform.

Nair: I'm probably in the extreme minority here, but I use Fair and Bair more than this. Then again, that might have something to do with why I'm not that great of an Ike. However, after reading this thread, I plan on mixing my RAR up with some Nairs instead of Bairs more often.

Dsmash: Pretty much only when the enemy rolls. And even then...

 

[ama(m/t)]

roy sword of seals fire thx.

 

[Shirum]

Versatile, still up for videos? Adding videos seemed to be forgotten after the first few pages.

If I'm allowed to show other peoples' videos, my personal favorite is Griever.

Old vids: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143985

More recent ones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZC-LxXfqZE Drago (Marth) vs Griever (Ike) 1/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KI9MSVyrmU Drago (Marth) vs Griever (Ike) 2/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtTFtOvY2NU Drago (Marth) vs Griever (Ike) 3/3

I like his videos. He makes it look like a faster game, somehow.

(To reiterate, these aren't mine by any stretch of imagination, disclaimdisclaimdisclaim, etc.)

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Downsmash... I almost never find a situation where I'd want to use this over Up-smash personally. I never Jab->jab->d-smash, because I find that u-tilt would likely work better. For roll punishing, Up-smash works better because it covers a larger area. The exception to this rule of course would be when you've degenerated Up-Smash quite a bit already.

 

[bobwhiz]

I just did a tournament this weekend.
My IKE, which is notoriously weak, got rocked by Game and Watch and Falco.

I beat the G&W once, and nearly won, so it was close, but hard, with the Bairs and lagless D-airs, and he counter-picked pirate ship.

The falco rocked me with Lasers, F-smashes->Dairs, grabs, neutral A, etc....

I need practice... but I'm not sure I want to be THAT big a geek about this game.

><
practice practice practice.

 

[Kirk]

I was gonna say my input on this, but Trebor beat me to it lol.

Basically, Upsmash is generally the better option. And there are a variety of other options to punish rollers and the like...better options than down smash.

What you can do, however, is save it for a kill move. Since it is not degenerated like most of your other attacks, assuming you never really use Dsmash to begin with, this can be used instead. It is a relatively quick attack and if it is at its full power, it may come in handy.

Other than this, I don't see much use for it...Ike just has better options in general. Also just a note for those that don't know, the second swing that hits behind Ike is stronger in both damage and knockback compared to the first swing.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Up smash cant be used in these situations

"I believe down smash is good move when used for pure punishing. I basically use it to punish attacks or any unsafe move in which there is SLIGHTLY enough time to do something besides Jab and punish them. It is slightly faster than up tilt and faster than forward tilt as well. It does not have it's hower, but it can KO a lot of characters at around 120%. Fast enough to interupt offensive pressure(IE: when a move IS safe, but decide to continue to attack instead of block) and catchers rollers(though I never really use it for that.)

It's lack f range really sucks, so try to use it only when the opponent is close, or you will miss. Popular moves it's pretty good for punishing is Marth's sword dance, Snake's dash attack(without the up smash cancel), and Fox's up smash."

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

i like using down smash when people are at high percentages since its his fastest smash but i cant say i use it to much either its good to mix it up though.

for the dash attack if you hit with the hilt of the sword u can follow up with a sh bair at low % don't know anything else to it.

and the crotch actually came up with a use for d tilt except he only said it aero drive which no1 uses 0.0 but it could be used in the mario sunshine stage and in metaknights ship or what ever its called when people are trying to recover trough the bottom of the stage.

edit: i 4got to add that down smash can be used to hit trough the shield when its degraded a bit people said it hundreds of times when we talked about down tilt but no1 has said it now that its on topic lol

 

[TechnoMonster]

Did you ever stop to think that maybe he's so limited because of the way you think and play with him?

Nope, I didn't think of that, but then again, I can't remember the last time I lost to an Ike.

Yeah down Smash probably isnt going to go very far when it comes to in depth analysis. I'll duel MOTD dash attack and down smash

Dash attack is useful. Good for catching people off guard obviously. It's best to do it so that you go THROUGH them so shield grabbing is a little harder. Just having it as a threat is nice for setting up grabs. It's pretty much common sense when to use it and when not to. Be smart about it, and definitely don't spam. Beats out some weaker projectiles.

Under no circumstances should you attempt to cross-up the dash attack. You're just giving them more time to shield, and it's laggy enough that smashing out of shield is definitely appropriate.

Dash attack is a good move though. Mixing it up is good, and Ike has lag so that's something to deal with, but it's not a safe poke or a powerful attack, so it's best at low-mid percents to build damage and pop them up or off the stage, and good to catch people rolling away if you know for sure that's their plan.

Down-smash is one of ike's best out of shield counters aside from the obvious jab, and kills at good percents against lightweights and floaties.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Dash attack is unsafe regardless. My wording of "its best to do it so that you go through them" is off. Doing that all the time lessens it's main attribute(range). If spaced right its hard/near impossible to shield grab him anyway, and you can Jab when you finish recovery frames to escape being dash grabbed most of the time.

Good stuff there. Judging from your last post you seemed pretty clueless about Ike in general.

 

[The Crotch]

and the crotch actually came up with a use for d tilt except he only said it aero drive which no1 uses

Obviously, you've never met my friends.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Obviously, you've never met my friends.

i hope i dont i hate that place lol i can never get back up from the ground just sit there bouncing till i rack up like 50 dmg or more

 

[3xSwords]

For d-smash best use is shield->d-smash and if you have ppl who just charge at you, then just do a d-smash in their face and stop their dash. And don't flame the dash-attack, this move has very good uses. Granted its not good when spammed but that applies to all moves.

If you want a quick finisher f-throw to dash attack immediately works, but only if they aren't expecting it. Dash attack is also good like I mentioned before as a way to clear out a camper.

 

[metroid1117]

Dash attack can actually clash with Lucas' PK Fire (in the sense that there's no fire-splash); I'll try to get a video up.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Fresh fights between myself and Snakeee. He has one of the top ZSSs. Really good fights so check em out. They're wifi

Also some very his Marth, which is pretty good as well.

VERSATILE(NEW)

Versatile(Ike) vs Snakeee(ZSS) - Fights are not in order regardless of number.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bfscQzcs0A4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cstKzo-ds74
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sBW8gJG0eyM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3QPtk1EaYyY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3F7FQyf8iIw
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bmWs23PLNTk
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8Je_uK9k_Kk
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bfscQzcs0A4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cQSx2dr5Uls
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hIlqubQjqwg

Versatile(Ike) vs Snakeee(Marth) - Really good ones

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a516TPPyKzg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VzD5B8_bUwI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xSDIfdnySXE

any critique is chill.

Im going to try and get some videos in with one of the top Snakes on the east(HAX) as well as one of the sickest Yoshis plus some battles with some of my crew members.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I personally use the dash attack to tech chase, as it's Ike's only viable way to do so. The range on it is insane, as Ike does some crazy extra step on the attack execution. However things like lag and predictability keep the move from being overused.

I suggest we look at Counter next. I've always wondered how the other competitive players use it (if they can...).

 

[comboking]

i do not have any videos but i could help with this thread like with thoughts on moves

 

[Wolt]

Counter is easy enough I think, I like to do it after I'm grabbed. People sort of have set little combos and use them a lot. As for the dash, I use it to catch people off guard while they're rolling and for the occasional tech chase which Trebor mentioned. It's a pretty misleading attack for those who don't know it well.

 

[senjiroth]

Counter: this is a helpful move in a way, but its hard to pull off if ur under pressure... keep in mind that this is slower than marth so u cant just throw in ike's counter... i use it sparingly, but i like to SH then counter in the face when my opponents are aggro but be sure that u anticipated it correctly coz the llong lag of this move can punish u badly.... juts get used with the slowness of this move and with good spacing ang good timing u can use this move pretty well

Off-topic: nice crabitat trebor! i wish i have money i quit on mine coz i dont think im giving my crabbies a good crabitat.... hopefully next time i'll have time and money to take care of crabbies.. i love them xd

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Warning, highly off topic post!

Off-topic: nice crabitat trebor! i wish i have money i quit on mine coz i dont think im giving my crabbies a good crabitat.... hopefully next time i'll have time and money to take care of crabbies.. i love them xd

Actually, my avatar isn't a crab, its a aquatic snail. =P His name is Lewie.

The tank at the bottom is my 40 gal pride and joy. Lewie doesn't live in there, he'd eat the plants. Lewie lives in a smaller 5 gal by my computer screen. xD

Pet's like fish and crabs are really expensive. My 40 gal cost me 1000 dollars to get established and stocked with fish/plants. My 5 gal was 100. >.>

I've never had crabs, but I hear they do weird things! I might get them if I can finish the 4-5 other tanks I want to build. xD


Back on topic
I find counter to be extremely hard to pull off consistently. It's practically only useful on extremely aggro opponents, as the sound Coutner makes is so obvious and doesn't actually activate when the cound clanks (most annoying thing EVER(). That allows them to either hit you with an extremely fast attack, grab, or know you're vulnerable enough to hit with something beefier like a charged smash. >.>


I just don't like the move, really. xD

 

[VersatileBJN]

Move Of The Day Is Counter

Counter needs to be used in an intelligent manner, period. Really focusing on your opponent's movement, patterns and aggressiveness. People spam this TOO much at times. Sometime it is simply better to block, spot dodge, or air dodge. You FEEL when its a good time to use it in your gut, and thats when you do.

Counter is extremely helpful vs Meta Knight. Sometimes air dodging vs him simply isn't a good idea. He absolutely KILLS inaccuracy, and even when you're on point with your air dodge/sidestep he still tears you up. Sometimes the risk needs to be taken and you have to go for counter. Shoot, sometimes if you DON'T you will be put into a almost guaranteed off the stage situation.

Besides Meta, it works well vs slower characters like Bowser, DK, Ike, etc.

and obviously counter works well vs anyone who is predictable, so yeah.

 

[VersatileBJN]

"Oh yeah also have any of you guys ever play a spotdodging spammer? My friend does and its getting really annoying esp. spotdodge->d-smash. I punish him sometimes, but I have yet to find a definite punisher to this tactic. B/c usually I punish the lag of the d-smash."

Best way to handle spot dodge spam is to hold jab on em. Move has such obscene priority and will beat out pretty much anything they try to do out of jab.