Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[TaFoKiNtS]

Playing with Scar improved my game 10 fold. He really punishes mistimed and mis-spaced attacks, poor DI, and bad decision making.

He's awesome

 

[gravy]

I wanna play with scar Someday. When I'm not a scrub a dub dub.

 

[JonnyW]

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned CCing, it's so good. lol.

CC'ing and F-tilts are 2012 falcon meta game I truly believe. Those things own sheik if you're smart.

 

[Tekk]

Powershield => fsmash against fox sh nairing

that's a thing

 

[Windrose]

Alright!!! I'm loving this positive constructive atmosphere that's been happening in the falcon boards. It's so great to see scar back and everyone else being so active.

Looking forward to the upcoming stuff.

CC'ing and F-tilts are 2012 falcon meta game I truly believe. Those things own sheik if you're smart.

falcon's f-tilt against sheik? when??

CCing is good against her tilts i guess?

 

[Scar]

my gut reaction to the cc ftilt idea is that it's less effective for falcon than other characters. ftilt is really slow when you think about it, and falcon's weight is only comparable to fox and falco, who both have extremely fast moves (****ing shine for one, but quick nair comes out really fast, has a great hitbox after CCing, and beats almost everything).

so basically falcon is really heavy and a fastfaller, and his CC game is marginalized by the fact that starting hits on him leads to heavy combos unless he can change the momentum, which is generally really difficult because his moves come out too slowly (admittedly i haven't used or seen CC fast uair used, but again my gut says that the hitbox is too high and it will get whooped by people who crouch a lot)

Anyway, let's get to work: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227344

To-do

• Update matchup guide (johnny / hax / bigD / anyone else want to write something up for the characters i missed, or edit the ones i wrote?)
• Update stage guide
• Collect other topics people want to learn about

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Thats only on jigg's forward roll.


edit- @Strong Bad's last post

 

[Windrose]

Scar,

with regards to updating your stage guide section...while you were away, I started this whole thing on updating your stage guide section.

I don't know if it is still updated because I see everyone talking about these "new rules" which I don't really know about unless it's just the MBR rule set that has been discussed for awhile (only legal single stages are FD, FoD, BF, YS, DL64, PS?)

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=307545

here is the link^

There's a lot of useful information contributed by s2j and various other experienced falcons on stages with respect to banning, advantages/disadvantages, and when to choose what stages vs certain matchups.

A lot of it was based on the format of your stage guide which i pretty much copy pasted and updated...

EDIT:

-yeah upon going through this thread, there's a lot of useful posts beyond the first post which I didn't get a chance to resummarize into the first page. So there's probably going to require some work gathering all that information from all the posts in the thread. S2J particularly contributed a lot of good stuff to stage discussions in that thread.

 

[Meneks]

Are there any anticipation tactics to use with Falcon against Falco?

What I mean by that is, are there any things that Falcos always tend to do in certain situations that are favorable towards me to punish?
Are there ways to set up these situations?

Its one of the match ups that im most unfamiliar with due to the fact that I always avoided it and used other characters against Falco.

 

[DuckPimp]

i would also like to hear an answer to that question in a more general sense, or how you can trap or condition people into certain positions that, if anticipated, can lead into serious falcon business?

 

[Scar]

the biggest mixup i can think of is running at someone and either grabbing, or waiting for down dodge or roll (destruction vs anyone besides floaties at the ledge at low %s)

predicting down dodge and roll is the ultimate falcon business IMO and people do it a lot especially to get out of tech chases if they think you just regrab all the time

 

[adechrist]

7 damage hitboxes have 5 frames of shieldstun.

Yeah, but the second hit of Nair only does 7 if it's the only part that hits. If you use Nair normally, the first part of Nair will hit and do 6 damage, then the second part is stale, so it will only do 6 damage. Hitting the opponent with only the second part is rare, plus Nair is one of Falcon's more commonly used moves, so it's usually at least a little stale. So it just made more sense to calculate Nair's sheildstun with the second part only doing 6 damage.

 

[JonnyW]

falcon's f-tilt against sheik? when??

CCing is good against her tilts i guess?

f-tilt when she approaches with aerials. It will beat her fair, nair, and dair unless shes out of reach of course. If sheik tries to roll behind you or come up at you with one of her tilts then try to beat her with your f-tilt. CC her dash attack more than anything. If sheiks miss the tech chase sometimes they will follow up with a dash attack that I like to CC. I wouldn't really CC to f-tilt because thats slow.

 

[gravy]

Do you suggest tilting the ftilt up on incoming aerials?

 

[JonnyW]

Do you suggest tilting the ftilt up on incoming aerials?

Yesssss. Just to hit sheik before she hits you. Then wavedash backwards or instand u-air/nair or maybe grab. Whatever works. Just use f-tilt to beat her fast attacks when you are grounded.

 

[Gahtzu]

Are there any anticipation tactics to use with Falcon against Falco?

What I mean by that is, are there any things that Falcos always tend to do in certain situations that are favorable towards me to punish?
Are there ways to set up these situations?

Its one of the match ups that im most unfamiliar with due to the fact that I always avoided it and used other characters against Falco.

Every falco has their own certain times when they laser, which is IMO one of the most punishable things in this matchup.
A lot of falcos like to laser when they are in certain parts of the stage and like to reset their aggression with lasers (happens usually after a scuffle).
If hes shooting low lasers you fly into him with a nair and take it from there
If hes shooting high lasers, the safest thing you can do is powershield one laser and nair immediately after to catch falco in the middle of his second laser. Side-bing under high lasers is pretty risky so I usually just stay away from it unless they are lasering right in my face.
Also, throwing out full hop nairs catches a lot of falcos, a lot of them like to full hop laser all the way to the ground and you can catch them at the top before the first laser comes out. Some falcos also like to set up dair combos with full hops, so it catches that too. I only started doing this after seeing s2j do it, so I don't know the full application of the fh nair

 

[linkoninja]

I would assume CC D-Tilt is good against Sheik's Tilts? I wouldn't do this for her aerials but I feel against Tilts it could be hella good, you pop her into the air and them progress from there. With good spacing she probably won't be able to do anything. I dunno its just an idea, what do you guys think?

 

[JonnyW]

I would assume CC D-Tilt is good against Sheik's Tilts? I wouldn't do this for her aerials but I feel against Tilts it could be hella good, you pop her into the air and them progress from there. With good spacing she probably won't be able to do anything. I dunno its just an idea, what do you guys think?

I think it would work alright as long as you aren't obvious about your CC. I feel like any character will **** a person who is spamming CC obviously. But with good spacing f-tilt and d-tilt will beat out most of Sheiks moves on the ground. Watch out about following her into the air though cause she may come right back with a fair or nair.

 

[Zhea]

So I have my first tournament tomorrow ( Not a big one, just a local one at the smash club at RPI ). What was the one thing you all wish you knew before going to your first tourney?

 

[JonnyW]

So I have my first tournament tomorrow ( Not a big one, just a local one at the smash club at RPI ). What was the one thing you all wish you knew before going to your first tourney?

Punish hard.

 

[Scar]

I had played a lot before my first tournament, and lots of really good people were there, so I'm not sure it's an analogous experience, but in general, play a lot of friendlies, and don't play too much with any one person (unless you're having a lot of fun / learning a lot). That's probably the best advice I can give.

 

[GOTM]

I had played a lot before my first tournament, and lots of really good people were there, so I'm not sure it's an analogous experience, but in general, play a lot of friendlies, and don't play too much with any one person (unless you're having a lot of fun / learning a lot). That's probably the best advice I can give.

or ****** them for your combo video

 

[Zhea]

Alright, I'll keep all of that in mind. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Meneks]

So I have my first tournament tomorrow ( Not a big one, just a local one at the smash club at RPI ). What was the one thing you all wish you knew before going to your first tourney?

Go in there anticipating that everyone is going to be better than you so you won't be disappointed

Some kids think they're good until they play someone outside of their immediate group of friends.

 

[Nakamaru]

Whenever i go to a tournament i try to find someone that makes me work really hard for a win. But doesn't like rofl-stomp me every other match. Then i just try and play them for as long as possible, or until i feel like i've seen all the holes they've abused and then think on those for a bit.

 

[S l o X]

@ locals I just play people around my level / slightly above and slightly below my level. (or at least people who I think are)

if it's your first time then just play everyone but not for too long.

 

[Zhea]

Alright, back from tourney, overall I think it was pretty successful. I got my *** whooped, but I already knew that was going to happen. I learned a ton from it and got to play with a bunch of different players/skill levels. Even though I lost I had some close matches and overall feel pretty good about it.

 

[Wenbobular]

I finally beat a not terrible Fox in tournament!!

I lost to 2 Peaches though ... need to learn how to combo them from grab and not get hit by dash attack ...
*depression*

 

[Deleted member]

my advice vs peaches dash attack:

space about 2 peaches in length rather than 1 or you will get hit by dash attack 50 million times

 

[Windrose]

well, according to hax's rants. peach dash attacks as a response to your jump.

===

if you space 2 peaches away, aren't you giving her too much room to pull turnips/ set up her own fc fair spacing? A peach spacing well defensively is so gay to play against, i just can't penetrate it.

 

[Deleted member]

idk, im no authority on the peach matchup sadly

but if peach can pull turnips freely when you are 2 peaches away then you are too far away, its mostly when she is on the move that you have to space harder for dash attack

 

[gravy]

I would kill for an actual explanation on how to scar jump and how to do the dokari instant jump thing.

 

[Wenbobular]

They're so useless, just learn how to play instead of dumb ledge games ...

Scarjump - Hold in, drop off ledge with Cstick away, press away on the control stick

I have no idea how to Doraki with Falcon but I can do it with Fox

 

[DuckPimp]

well its like the same way you would with fox

 

[ryankam10]

the best singular piece of advice I've read on this entire forum the past month is to play falcon like a low tier character
as in not rushing in because im not herp derp broken offense falco or fox

 

[Deleted member]

the best singular piece of advice I've read on this entire forum the past month is to play falcon like a low tier character
as in not rushing in because im not herp derp broken offense falco or fox

what terrible advice

 

[DuckPimp]

im pretty good at losing like a low tier

 

[BigD!!!]

peach's turnips arent too big of a deal vs falcon, you can avoid them pretty well, just let her pull them

even if she gets them out, she cant jab/grab/dsmash/dash attack/anything but float aerials and throw turnips, so you can relatively safely rush in

 

[Windrose]

She can throw the turnip at you to stop your approach or make you catch a turnip instead of doing an aerial.

 

[Deleted member]

how do you aerial while holding an item?