Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[The Upholder]

I don't get it, everyone says the first two jabs need to hit to gentleman, but i've hit with only one on numerous occasions and had it cancel. Usually I aaa+R and hold a.

aa r(hold)a(release r) also works.

 

[Jake13]

There's nothing worse than that slow gentlemen where falcon looks like he wants to start multi-jabbing then doesn't

 

[0Room]

So guys
Let's talk about Puff.

What should you do against Puff?

 

[ryankam10]

I dunno man I would love to give puff advice but honestly the Puff I play with isn't very good, at least not very good as compared to the puff you probably play against :S

I think though... spacing is extremely important in this matchup :S

 

[ETWIST51294]

Bair is the answer. This is probably the only mu I'm actually good at, but I'll leave it to Hax to break it down.

 

[Brookman]

I don't get it, everyone says the first two jabs need to hit to gentleman, but i've hit with only one on numerous occasions and had it cancel. Usually I aaa+R and hold a.

aa r(hold)a(release r) also works.

I don't understand how there is still confusion about this trcik after like 5 years.


press a 3 times and hold A until the knee is retracted. You don't need to connect any jabs, it's a matter of timing.

 

[ryankam10]

I don't understand how there is still confusion about this trcik after like 5 years.


press a 3 times and hold A until the knee is retracted. You don't need to connect any jabs, it's a matter of timing.

a+a+(hold a) is slow imo... you need to wait for a longass period of time after doing it in order to actually do anything..

a+a+(hold a + hold forward/back/down/B) is faster imo. :D

TY S2J! I just spent like 45 min practicing gentlemans, the way you suggested to do it is really really good. what I do now is briskly press a 3 times, and press forward on the last on as well, like if I was forward smashing... it works everytime lol

 

[thumbswayup]

Gentlemen works wonders against Puff. The matchup is heavily in Puff's favor, but it is not impossible. Space bairs and uairs against her, and when you grab her throw her immediately so they don't have time to change their DI. Avoid the edge versus her as well

 

[JPOBS]

don't grab much tho, they can duck it

or so i hear, im too busy playign fox mccloud.

 

[ryankam10]

Does anyone have a / can come up with a "CPU drill" that can help to test your skill with gentleman? As in, with a certain CPU level/mode, at x%, a gentleman can lead into a grab if your fast enough.

For example, I've seen some people do gentleman => grab on fox but I don't know the exact percent that fox has to be at for that to work. I'm guessing something like 50-60%, and the fox has to survival DI. does the training CPU survival DI everything? how about level 1s or level 9 cpus?

I need a drill of some sorts to see if I'm gentlemanning fast enough.

maybe even gentleman on mid - percent fox to a stomp but so far I haven't been able to do it fast enough

 

[The Upholder]

I don't understand how there is still confusion about this trcik after like 5 years.


press a 3 times and hold A until the knee is retracted. You don't need to connect any jabs, it's a matter of timing.

Last time I tried if you don't hit anyone it will do the rapid jabs unless you time it slowly. Maybe there's a version difference?


I think I'm just gonna test everything later today.

 

[0Room]

don't grab much tho, they can duck it

or so i hear, im too busy playing Fox McCloud.

This is pretty much why I'm asking.
I wanna be prepared whenever I came across these kind of weird, less played MUs

 

[CaptainNanD0]

yo vs puff i think crouching her bairs to uairs is a good trade

-hax

 

[Mokumo]

yo vs puff i think crouching her bairs to uairs is a good trade

-hax

thats pretty smart at low %

i like stomping on people that i know are going for cc, especially puff

 

[Walt]

This is pretty much why I'm asking.
I wanna be prepared whenever I came across these kind of weird, less played MUs

Interesting fact and very useful fact against puff: She can only crouch standing grab and JC grab. Dash grab goes just slightly lower and will get the crouch. The hardest part is not pressing JC grab out of habit. Also works for Marth.

 

[GooeyBanana]

I feel the best way to gentleman is press AA really fast, but obviously make sure that second A activates the second jab, then just a very slight pause, and then press A again. Doing it this way yields about a 90% success rate for me, and it's great for following up to something, whereas using the Z button trick might get you stuck in your shield. HOWEVER, still learn how to do that as well, because doing gentleman into buffer shield into buffer jump/roll/spot dodge is a great tool for escapes and the like.

Gentleman is secretly Falcon's greatest move.

 

[Strong Badam]

Bair is the answer. This is probably the only mu I'm actually good at, but I'll leave it to Hax to break it down.

Essentially, yeah. It's kinda weird but for whatever reason using Falcon's bair intelligently is really the key to the match-up.

 

[0Room]

Do we have any really good videos for reference?

 

[CommonerCoffee]

Hey got 2 questions here.
1) I often see Falcons Knee into jab on people's shield. Can someone confirm that an lcancelled Knee is unpunishable by shieldgrabs? What about for other aerials like first or second hit nair, or uair?
2) Any tips against Link?

 

[ETWIST51294]

Link? Really? REALLY???

DD a lot punish one mistake and kill him for it. He's one of the easiest characters to kill off of one mistake.

 

[Juggleguy]

A well-SHFFL'd knee is safe on shield. Falcon has the frame advantage for following it up.

 

[Walt]

My tips against Link are hit him and be welcomed into combo heaven. I actually have an easier time comboing Link than Ganon. Also if you spot dodge a grab from him/he whiffs a grab you can falcon punch him before the hookshot reels back. Hilarious.

 

[Mokumo]

i'm pretty sure the key to knee on shield -> jab is hitting with the knee as late as possible (right before you land), that way you're recovering from the lag at the same time as their shield stun.

 

[Windrose]

I am sick of getting GIMPED. =( How to not get gimped? Any tips are great.

Mainly fox and marth that are gimping me =(. GIMPEDY GIMPEDY PIMPEDY GIMP

 

[Divinokage]

Control the center, dont play offstage.

 

[Mokumo]

reverse up-B when going for the edge while recovering helps a lot when youre being edgeguarded. if they know youre gonna do it then they'll just edgehog and you'll probably die. chaaaaa

 

[0Room]

reverse up-B when going for the edge while recovering helps a lot when youre being edgeguarded. if they know youre gonna do it then they'll just edgehog and you'll probably die. chaaaaa

I assume you mean doubling back for the ledge?

I mean this is the hardest thing about Falcon.
Besides maybe getting tech chased. Which is horrendously frustrating.

Stopping being gimped consists of Eight Main Steps:

1) Don't give up. You never know if they'll mess up, so there's absolutely no reason not to try, no matter what! Even if you won't make it back onstage, they might get cocky and try to **** on you some more, and mess up! This is first because I feel it's most important. If you stop trying, you've already lost.
Examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTOFNs2-AiA&t=03m14s
MM continues to DI [really well actually] and Falcon kick to try to recover. Even though he gets intercepted, he never stopped trying.
Another example is from Scar's own IKM1. If he had stopped trying, he never would have recovered back onstage and gotten the kill.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TrucidOL8R#p/u/278/4Y8rQ_0zNIg&t=04m33s

2) Try not to put yourself in that situation. If at all possible, BE the one edgeguarding [ie controlling center stage, like Kage said]. I play a developing sheik a lot, and when he's edgeguarding me I find it difficult to come back, but when I'm edgeguarding him I'm cleaning away his stocks in no time flat. If you can get those strong edgeguarding skills, be sure to use them against him and keep him on his toes.

3) Try not to use your Double Jump unless you can sweet spot the ledge directly. I know I used to be HORRIBLE with this, using my DJ the second I got the chance to, but you have to knock that habit out of yourself. Try to always Sweetspot the ledge with your Double Jump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ayp7DdTZwc&t=00m33s
See how Darkrain waits to use his Jump? If he had jumped earlier he could have gotten gimped easily. This way is much safer, and more dangerous for the other player.

4) Be sure to edgetech if you can. You have to press it early from what I hear, and at high percentages, Smash DI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZunSG9Ybf4&01m18s
If he hadn't teched it, he would have died. It gave him another chance to come back, and so you should always try to tech the ledge if you can!
Ephoenix really isn't a great person to watch, in his sets versus M2k though. He was just kinda ****ing around.

5) Try to disrupt their Edgeguarding. I know I told you to not really pay attention to Ephoenix's set here, but this was good too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awI1B9y8U5o&t=01m00s
Sometimes jumping back with a knee against Marths for example can really catch them off guard and screw them up. So try it every now and again, but not a lot! otherwise then it loses it's shock value and you're back to where you stared.

6) Get rid of your lag frames. Your lag frames on UpB are ridiculous, so go for the ledge if you can. Sometimes you can't, but it should be your priority. This becomes a problem in high level play, because they know that you're going to go for that, so you should try to do things like edge cancel your upB if you can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3tg-RxS7Lc&t=00m55s
Notice how he goes for the ledge rather than in front of Armada. It got rid of his lag and allowed him to do anything he could from the ledge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3tg-RxS7Lc&t=02m10s
Notice how he edgecanceled that upB into a DJ! I was surprised when I first saw it, and it's still really impressive! Obviously very difficult, but if you can learn it, it's totally worth it.

7) Don't forget ALL of your options. A lot of people forget Airdodge, but it's definitely a viable strategy! Airdodging, DJ, UpB, and Falcon Kick are all your main options, but even sideb could save you if you need it to! Don't forget your options and you can use things that people just won't see coming to help you survive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3tg-RxS7Lc&t=00m56s
The airdodge really saved him there. Most people wouldn't think about it.

8) Accept that sometimes you've done all you can. Sometimes you will get out edgeguarded, and you won't be able to come back. But don't get angry, don't get frustrated, stay calm and confident in the fact that you did all you can! If you let yourself get emotional and angry, then you're more likely to make mistakes. So don't let it get to you! Do it right back to them!

Alright, hope I helped you out there! I spent a lot longer than I wanted to looking for video references, so watch them












Hey guys look what I found scrolling for "Scar's Pro Tips" or whatever that video is called
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yxc7-QGLbM

Silliness aside, this is a good reminder that everyone starts somewhere and everything is achieved by hard work.

 

[Roneblaster]

if u can tech, you have to tech the edgeguards.

if you cant tech you have to try not to be put in a position where u cant tech.

sometimes its just out of your control.

 

[Mokumo]

I assume you mean doubling back for the ledge?


1) Don't give up. You never know if they'll mess up, so there's absolutely no reason not to try, no matter what! Even if you won't make it back onstage, they might get cocky and try to **** on you some more, and mess up! This is first because I feel it's most important. If you stop trying, you've already lost.
Examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTOFNs2-AiA&t=03m14s
MM continues to DI [really well actually] and Falcon kick to try to recover. Even though he gets intercepted, he never stopped trying.
Another example is from Scar's own IKM1. If he had stopped trying, he never would have recovered back onstage and gotten the kill.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TrucidOL8R#p/u/278/4Y8rQ_0zNIg&t=04m33s

Doubling back? Maybe if that's what you call it. I just meant doing your upB backwards while holding towards the stage so you still grab the edge. its a sexy recovery.

oh and here's a classic example of never giving up when gettin the gimp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD0ntDIlZko#t=3m20s

 

[CommonerCoffee]

So Link gets combo-ed by Falcon really easily? What combos should I be looking for and should I be Uthrowing or Dthrowing him?

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

how the hell do you beat a planking puff? meaning one that plays like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTHfcafE9ig

 

[Walt]

So Link gets combo-ed by Falcon really easily? What combos should I be looking for and should I be Uthrowing or Dthrowing him?

Up throw, and like, every combo Falcon combo works on Link except for maybe dropzone. I honestly don't know what I do in the fight except try to hit him and don't get aerials stuffed by utilt. I guess if you don't think he can hit you with a bomb, boomerang, or utilt just get on him and force him into a bad spot.

how the hell do you beat a planking puff? meaning one that plays like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTHfcafE9ig

At the start of the match I would have just tried to knee him, over and over. What is puff gonna do about that trade? Be down percent and forced to approach.


Jesus this whole post is hurr durr just hit him dood. You can probably disregard this post, not nearly as helpful as I usually try to be lol.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

i hate jigglypuff and its probably my worst matchup. i usually get outspaced and/or intercepted when i approach, especially under the stress of the fact that if he hits me first ill lose the match.

and when he starts planking, what are the best/safest options to intercept him?

i know theres nothing garaunteed and that if he gets a lead he gets a huge advantage, so even suggestions for very abstract punishes and baits are greatly appreciated

 

[_Rocky_]

i hate jigglypuff and its probably my worst matchup. i usually get outspaced and/or intercepted when i approach, especially under the stress of the fact that if he hits me first ill lose the match.

and when he starts planking, what are the best/safest options to intercept him?

i know theres nothing garaunteed and that if he gets a lead he gets a huge advantage, so even suggestions for very abstract punishes and baits are greatly appreciated

fh fastfall dair

run in shield wavedash oos -> something stupid

 

[TemPesT-]

dbl jab reset into gentleman as they stand.

get on my level.

sneak peak at 2012 metagame boys

 

[Roneblaster]

Mike, punch that ***** in the face, unplug ur controller, walk away.

 

[Mokumo]

now that i've become facebook friends with a lot of people that i've met at local tournaments, i see people like mango, pc chris, mew2king, and A TON OF OTHER SMASHERS on my recommended list. its nuts.

honestly if a puff is planking you and you really think youre gonna lose no matter what, screw it just go for the knee. even if you whiff and die it doesn't make a difference if you think youre gonna lose anyway. i mean, even if you knee them offstage they'll probably get back to the stage first and edgeguard you xD puff imba

 

[Wenbobular]

I say go for the spike instead ... at least that way you might accidentally nipple spike her and she'll actually die as opposed to kneeing and ... not doing anything

 

[ryankam10]

how the hell do you beat a planking puff? meaning one that plays like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTHfcafE9ig

I am a pro at this matchup, best advice I can give you is throw down your controller and beat him up IRL.
srsly works everytime >_>

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Mike, punch that ***** in the face, unplug ur controller, walk away.

well atleast i didnt shake the *****es hand after i lost

honestly if a puff is planking you and you really think youre gonna lose no matter what, screw it just go for the knee. even if you whiff and die it doesn't make a difference if you think youre gonna lose anyway. i mean, even if you knee them offstage they'll probably get back to the stage first and edgeguard you xD puff imba

well my plan is winning and its not like hes significantly better then me, i played a mm/pride set vs his main (ics) at the second last tournament here and it was 4-3 (but he won). despite the fact that i suck against ics and have no clue what to do in the matchup. i just spam random moves and hope for the best lol

set is here btw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvaih5nnA2c
(you can see the rest of the matches in related videos/on my channel)

fh fastfall dair

run in shield wavedash oos -> something stupid

but hes off stage/at the ledge, youre telling me to wd offstage? >.> or wd back?

btw did he (try to) plank you with puff when you played him?