Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ah ya for sure.. for Falcon, I'm not sure what you can do pressure Sheik, I'm not very experienced with Falcon yet.
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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
$mike
Smash Ace
i would say space the **** out of nair while moving around (dding + empty short hops). wait for the dash attack, short hop fair, or another tilt. then punish with grab/stomp (for dash attack)/knee
ya stock is done
though sheik basically has an answer to everything, so hypothetically there's not anything that sheik has no options against... it's just catching them doing something stupid basically
Scar
#HarveyDent
The way I play the match, there is no real pressure, it's just the threat of getting completely ruined if you're hit or grabbed, I've noticed that without excellent DI (and even sometimes with it) if you get Sheik off the ground and in hitstun you can kill her pretty easily.
The problem I've been having recently is that run up + shield (to bait ftilt) gets grabbed, which leads to getting dthrow tech chased. Running in and nairing gets ftilted into a grab. It's pretty annoying.
I can reliably smash DI out of the jab reset but even that only goes so far, getting grabbed too much by Sheik is a bad sign.
Smash DI and correct CCing is something I've been neglecting to learn though and I think it really separates the boys from the men in this game.
moving a ton is the best answer for sure, i'm trying to do that vs falco too, just MOVE MOVE MOVE so you don't necessarily have to play his game
jiggs afaik is the only character where i HAVE to play her game no matter what i try to do
i can't think of any moves where sheik really has a cooldown to totally safely hit her from, besides dash attack
The problem I've been having recently is that run up + shield (to bait ftilt) gets grabbed, which leads to getting dthrow tech chased. Running in and nairing gets ftilted into a grab. It's pretty annoying.
I can reliably smash DI out of the jab reset but even that only goes so far, getting grabbed too much by Sheik is a bad sign.
Smash DI and correct CCing is something I've been neglecting to learn though and I think it really separates the boys from the men in this game.
ya pretty good $mike
moving a ton is the best answer for sure, i'm trying to do that vs falco too, just MOVE MOVE MOVE so you don't necessarily have to play his game
jiggs afaik is the only character where i HAVE to play her game no matter what i try to do
i can't think of any moves where sheik really has a cooldown to totally safely hit her from, besides dash attack
HomeMadeWaffles
Smash Lord
$mike
Smash Ace
yea pretty much. when i remember to not be ******** i try to move around as much as i can vs falco, just to basically never challenge them from the front. ive finalized from watching mango's falcon vs falco that forcing the falco to make uncomfortable setups by always changing your placement is the key to ****** them. SH nairing the whole game might get you a grab or two but the lasers usually beat it which leads to the same autocombos on falcon that they've practiced 1000 times
Aussierob123
Smash Champion
Mangos approach to Falco seems to be entirely focused on dair and knee, he doesn't often use nairs unless it's for defensive reasons. And he's ****ing good against Falco, prob the best falcon against Falco.
Scar
#HarveyDent
couldn't have said it better myself $mike
it's like attacking into siege tanks in sc2
i realized from RTS that that's what i was doing and how dumb it is lol, i've thrown away more important tourney stocks than most
aussierob -- def the best falcon vs falco, i think it's probably partly bc he knows falco so well
it's like attacking into siege tanks in sc2
i realized from RTS that that's what i was doing and how dumb it is lol, i've thrown away more important tourney stocks than most
aussierob -- def the best falcon vs falco, i think it's probably partly bc he knows falco so well
Fuujin
Smash Champion
I personally don't feel he does very well in that match up.
You should be approaching Falco with nair and the side b when hes in the air.
D
Deleted member
Guest
you can grab them if shiek f-tilts
up-tilt i'm not even sure if you can grab them
bad shieks and better ones too fall for this where you wavedash in place in front of them and they toss out a f-tilt, wait for it grab and then ****
up-tilt i'm not even sure if you can grab them
bad shieks and better ones too fall for this where you wavedash in place in front of them and they toss out a f-tilt, wait for it grab and then ****
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well with what ive said, it doesnt change the fact that Shiek's oos game is not great, all she has is vertical movement, so if you stay away from that zone, Sheik can do nothing oos. It's up to you Falcons to abuse that somehow and of course mix it up.
Scar
#HarveyDent
i'll remember that johnny... wd in place? really?
also i'm finding that after uthrow on a platform, mixing dair tech chase and nair is really good, nair covers a lot of options, and vs sheik getting a nair off like that is a really good combo starter
yo i'm about to take the GATTSU tag from sensei for ##### and beyond
also i'm finding that after uthrow on a platform, mixing dair tech chase and nair is really good, nair covers a lot of options, and vs sheik getting a nair off like that is a really good combo starter
yo i'm about to take the GATTSU tag from sensei for ##### and beyond
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Guts is a freaking champion warrior. lol. Who the hell can stand in his way?
WD in place I find can be good as it changes your timing for things and can sometimes screw up the opponent's pace. It's a good mindgame.
WD in place I find can be good as it changes your timing for things and can sometimes screw up the opponent's pace. It's a good mindgame.
D
Deleted member
Guest
it's a good noob pwner and good mix up in general, it helps that most shieks are gawd awful and that even the decent ones fall for it a lot
i've found that f-tilt even if it hits falcon is not good if falcon knows about crouch cancelling
up-tilt is better for shiek since the 2nd hit has extremely little lag
--
you deserve the gattsu tag loool
i've found that f-tilt even if it hits falcon is not good if falcon knows about crouch cancelling
up-tilt is better for shiek since the 2nd hit has extremely little lag
--
you deserve the gattsu tag loool
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
you can CC the ftilt to grab, idk if its JC or Dashgrab. but you have to react real fast (which is no problem for a man like scar)
btw this is only page 379, **** hasnt gotten serious yet.
btw this is only page 379, **** hasnt gotten serious yet.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I'll help out with that, though I play Falcon like Ganon sort of.. it sometimes work really well but sometimes it fails hard =P.
xXx-NoobKing-xXx
Smash Hero
Sheiks tilts are pretty dumb, I just usually dash dance camp as much as i can and practice edge cancelling platforms until she approaches me.
i think my issue with sheik is that in most matchups i get a lot of use out of overshooting aerials really far, and this doesnt work as well against sheik because she doesnt try to get out of the way as much as just hit me out of the moves
but then again, if she does outspace my moves, i can get grabbed which is pretty bad
i think knee as an approach might be worth looking into a little more scar, i think if youre sufficiently staggering and mixing up the timing of your approach then the sheik cant really react fast enough to react differently to a knee than a nair as you approach, and since a nair was a gamble anyway like you said its not too bad to bet a little harder. plus if you trade hits, which is pretty possible i think, then its better instead of being horrible
its still a risky move, but im not sure if you can beat sheik without them, i think it comes down to the rewards for your risks outweighing hers
but then again, if she does outspace my moves, i can get grabbed which is pretty bad
i think knee as an approach might be worth looking into a little more scar, i think if youre sufficiently staggering and mixing up the timing of your approach then the sheik cant really react fast enough to react differently to a knee than a nair as you approach, and since a nair was a gamble anyway like you said its not too bad to bet a little harder. plus if you trade hits, which is pretty possible i think, then its better instead of being horrible
its still a risky move, but im not sure if you can beat sheik without them, i think it comes down to the rewards for your risks outweighing hers
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Both work. But it's important that you let go of the CC and dash immediately after the f-tilt hits you, which is kind of tricky but once you learn how, it becomes a natural movement.
Jeapie
Smash Journeyman
when you shield sheiks ftilt , you can wavedash -> grab , if your fast enough.
Although when sheik hits you with her toe in a ftilt ( spaced ) wavdash -> grab is not fast enough.
I reccomand up B oos then. when her %s is like over 30 or something.
If it isnt , your probly going to get punisht for your up B since she didnt need to tech ^^
Trust me I live in the country with the best sheiks, I know this **** =D
Up tilt is sheiks best move, gtfo out when you see it!
random : basic combo on sheik? uptrow to uairs off stage -> wait -> sheik gets back -> dair reversed knee, repeat.
A good way to build up %s is just by doing the 3 jabs.
I guess it isnt that easy in ntsc then in pal unfortunately ;(
We play ntsc here too, sometimes. Mainly for marths sexy dair only fox is disgusting in your game -_-
Although when sheik hits you with her toe in a ftilt ( spaced ) wavdash -> grab is not fast enough.
I reccomand up B oos then. when her %s is like over 30 or something.
If it isnt , your probly going to get punisht for your up B since she didnt need to tech ^^
Trust me I live in the country with the best sheiks, I know this **** =D
Up tilt is sheiks best move, gtfo out when you see it!
random : basic combo on sheik? uptrow to uairs off stage -> wait -> sheik gets back -> dair reversed knee, repeat.
A good way to build up %s is just by doing the 3 jabs.
I guess it isnt that easy in ntsc then in pal unfortunately ;(
We play ntsc here too, sometimes. Mainly for marths sexy dair only fox is disgusting in your game -_-
Scar
#HarveyDent
lol good **** jeapie hahahaha yeah fox is pretty good in NTSC
bigD you right, you right. good points.
what do you guys think about FD as opposed to other stages? it seems like non-FD is easier than FD, since you basically need to attack directly into sheik on that big flat stage
bigD you right, you right. good points.
what do you guys think about FD as opposed to other stages? it seems like non-FD is easier than FD, since you basically need to attack directly into sheik on that big flat stage
D
Deleted member
Guest
almost every shiek i know hates FD
i think its better than yoshis and if they don't suck fountain, yoshis is too dinky and fountain sux
i think its better than yoshis and if they don't suck fountain, yoshis is too dinky and fountain sux
mers
Smash Ace
If they shield it or you whiff, you're extra ****ed.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
namesearched mila kunis to get in this thread. shes pretty amazing. idk what they were talking about, maybe chivalruse's avatar?
D
Deleted member
Guest
stomping on shields is fine if you space like a champ
i don't think full hop stomps are generally a good idea though
but even against up-tilt happy spacies you can super space so that you barely dodge the up-tilt and still stomp them
it's not that good against super good spacies since they actually time the up-tilt
but lesser players like to mash up-tilt especially after a tech in place
$mike
Smash Ace
the only time i do this is to punish falco's lhdl, that way even if it misses you still have time to jump again and evade
there are probably better options vs uptilting spacies though. you can punish an uptilt happy spacie the same way you do as if they were spotdodging, though the timing needs to be a bit tighter
Jeapie
Smash Journeyman
sorry for changing the subject ....
someone has to explan falcon-fox for me cause I have a feeling im just doing random stuff in that matchup.
Im currently uploading videos from a small tournament i just got back from at lawrencelots place RCT7= Tourney name .
I got 2nd, won against remens fox in wf, lost against gf twice against his fox.
Hes just spamming around doing airs and stuff ( no lasers! ) and im just getting ***** or something lol.
Hes a great player so congratz to him for winning, but i just want to get better in this matchup.
vids coming in 1 or 2 days. slowwwww internetzzz
Scar, what do you do against fox? Dont say grab -> **** please
someone has to explan falcon-fox for me cause I have a feeling im just doing random stuff in that matchup.
Im currently uploading videos from a small tournament i just got back from at lawrencelots place RCT7= Tourney name .
I got 2nd, won against remens fox in wf, lost against gf twice against his fox.
Hes just spamming around doing airs and stuff ( no lasers! ) and im just getting ***** or something lol.
Hes a great player so congratz to him for winning, but i just want to get better in this matchup.
vids coming in 1 or 2 days. slowwwww internetzzz
Scar, what do you do against fox? Dont say grab -> **** please
as good as sheiks tilts are baiting them is even better.
i have trouble when i get my tilt baited then i get grabbed or stomped.
also dthrow regrab doesnt work if they di away and down.
getting sheik in sheild is also really good cause her options are bad.
some falcons like to overshoot nair then sh bair or dash dance grab, it works pretty well if sheikd doesnt react fast enough
i have trouble when i get my tilt baited then i get grabbed or stomped.
also dthrow regrab doesnt work if they di away and down.
getting sheik in sheild is also really good cause her options are bad.
some falcons like to overshoot nair then sh bair or dash dance grab, it works pretty well if sheikd doesnt react fast enough
D
Deleted member
Guest
sorry for changing the subject ....
someone has to explan falcon-fox for me cause I have a feeling im just doing random stuff in that matchup.
Im currently uploading videos from a small tournament i just got back from at lawrencelots place RCT7= Tourney name .
I got 2nd, won against remens fox in wf, lost against gf twice against his fox.
Hes just spamming around doing airs and stuff ( no lasers! ) and im just getting ***** or something lol.
Hes a great player so congratz to him for winning, but i just want to get better in this matchup.
vids coming in 1 or 2 days. slowwwww internetzzz
Scar, what do you do against fox? Dont say grab -> **** please
camp and nair carefully 5804930 times
i have lost many fox friends with this new unbeatable tactic... lol
Shroomed
Smash Master
joe has definitely complained about the gayness of ur falcon johnny LOL
Tomacawk
Smash Master
Falcon's nair is under rated against fox. If you're spacing well, it actually out prioritizes fox's nair every time. the only thing fox can do to beat it flat out is bair in between the hits of the nair, shield it and usmash/grab/shine, and utilt if you flub the spacing on an approach
protect your space with nairs and dashes, hop up on platforms with your back turned occasionally so you can drop and bair to grab, fade away short hop stomp approaches
if spacies are doing a lot of full hop nairs that land behind your shield, put your back to them as they approach and shield. then grab upon landing (this works in falcon dittos, too. Don't do it too often)
a lot of spacies, even good ones, buffer spot dodges consistently when they whiff an approach. something I've learned is that when you dodge their approach, wait just a little longer and see if they spot dodge/roll. It's a free grab. if they cover whiffed approaches with jabs, stomp em in the nuts
as a fox player, something that gets me pretty frequently is short hop non fast fallen knee approaches. use it to shake things up a bit...the hardest thing for me with fox is to control my character when my rhythm is broken. even if you get a soft hit and nothing else, they'll often panic and give you openings
protect your space with nairs and dashes, hop up on platforms with your back turned occasionally so you can drop and bair to grab, fade away short hop stomp approaches
if spacies are doing a lot of full hop nairs that land behind your shield, put your back to them as they approach and shield. then grab upon landing (this works in falcon dittos, too. Don't do it too often)
a lot of spacies, even good ones, buffer spot dodges consistently when they whiff an approach. something I've learned is that when you dodge their approach, wait just a little longer and see if they spot dodge/roll. It's a free grab. if they cover whiffed approaches with jabs, stomp em in the nuts
as a fox player, something that gets me pretty frequently is short hop non fast fallen knee approaches. use it to shake things up a bit...the hardest thing for me with fox is to control my character when my rhythm is broken. even if you get a soft hit and nothing else, they'll often panic and give you openings
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Getting repeatedly shield stabbed by Falcon's nair into a grab has to be one of the most frustrating things in this game. I wish I wasn't such a noob when it comes to angling my shield. 
JPOBS
Smash Hero
how the f*** does falcons nair shield stab anything?
more precisely, how are you shielding enough to have your shield wittled enough to have his nair stab?
shielding vs falcon a lot is silly imo. either a run train of priority/speed right through his moves, crouch cancel, or gtfo of the way.
more precisely, how are you shielding enough to have your shield wittled enough to have his nair stab?
shielding vs falcon a lot is silly imo. either a run train of priority/speed right through his moves, crouch cancel, or gtfo of the way.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I'm not shielding a lot. That move is just gay. CCing it isn't even that great because half the time you CC you just eat a stomp/knee instead.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
nah man, dat reaction CC/asdi.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I'm a scrub, and I know it.
Aussierob123
Smash Champion
Man, how the **** do you guys (scar/ ss / hax /s2j etc) ****ing do this. Falcon seems like such a piece of **** sometimes (I just placed 7th at an aus "national"), I dunno how you guys win. I would just love to see one of you come over here and dominate the **** out of everyone and teach me your skills.
yummynbeefy
Smash Champion
i second this notion
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
MP8 is the barwl of MP. 6 & 7 are the ****.