Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Anth0ny]

isaiah is still too good

his cancels are perfect every time, it's really scary

also he just doesn't give a ****, kinda like SS, so i can't see him ever getting nervous and screwing up

on FoD vs me, we were on the right side of the stage, he hits me with a bair, uair, run off knee

nothing too spectacular until you take a closer look

the bair hit me at like 40%, i DI up and in, the plat on the left side is like 30% raised, really low but there

there is NO POINT OF REFERENCE for muscle memory l-canceling to l-cancel that uair

i still to this day cannot do it consistently

and i put the vid in slow mo and watched it like 7 times, bair, perfect reaction, turn run sh uair L-CANCEL on that ****ty stupid platform, perfect dash forward run off fair

then he fastfell after the knee hit and SDd

lmao what a beast

hopefully the training is going successfully... I wanna see him **** **** in tournaments again

 

[telemaster]

download wmm or use something else?

 

[P.C. Jona]

i can't, this stupid computer doesn't have wmm

you can def download wmm for freeskee

and if ur using a mac then mac has imovie

 

[TheManaLord]

Scar can I please get serious advice on the Falco matchup. I have a few things to ask.

Dealing with lasers is not as simple as text describes it. So, are there any falcon specific tricks for powershielding lasers? Any visual tips? Any tricks like sheiks crouch to PS?

I use nair out of my shield or uair out of it after I shield a laser, but if he keeps shooting lasers or approaches with a move of his own I get beat out. Should I try fullhopping or something just to get above him?

I always get hit by laser grab.

Whenever they are teching I do the read, I go to where they tech, but they spot dodge. Two questions here:

do I have to techchase based on prediction? I'd like to think my reactions are fast enough to get to them before they can spot dodge.

If I miss my aerial or grab and they spotdodge, am I guaranteed to get hit or grabbed or is there anything I can do in response? gentlemen? buffer roll?

Also, do you have any tricks for DI'ing out of his combos? I've taken a tip from Silent wolf and am smash DI'ing downairs a lot near the edge, I'm actually being able to get to stage and tech on it where normally I might get hit at that 45 degree and get sent off stage. And sometimes I'm sent towards center stage. What about DI'ing shine? should I always DI behind him or just random DI to mess him up???

idk any help would be appreciated please scar and scar alone not anybody like jona or something

 

[Tomacawk]

I also have some falco questions. I was playing viperboy yesterday and he was ****** me really hard. I'm actually solid against falco, but what he was doing that was ****** me was lasering sneakily. He didn't laser spam much, but the way he was lasering was unique and slow, and I didn't powershield a single laser because of this. I had no idea how crucial prediction was to my power shielding ability. What do I do against a falco like this? He did a really good job of keeping me at bay with minimal lasering.

 

[Reaver197]

Ha ha, well, I won't try to answer everything or try to give any real tips cause I also suck versus Falco, but my impression of reading techs is that, if you do an aerial, you have to predict the tech whereas, with the grab, you can react and grab in time, but I personally have difficulty with it, and try to punish for a dodge if I find I'm consistently slow with getting there in time.

I also was wondering for any advice as to what to do when you start getting hit by lasers. I generally try to figure out a way to start PSing, but since I got hit, it just ****s with my timing, and I get nothing done except eat more lasers.

 

[P.C. Jona]

idk any help would be appreciated please scar and scar alone not anybody like jona or something

lol

yo your gay haha

 

[Scar]

Scar can I please get serious advice on the Falco matchup. I have a few things to ask.

Dealing with lasers is not as simple as text describes it. So, are there any falcon specific tricks for powershielding lasers? Any visual tips? Any tricks like sheiks crouch to PS?

I use nair out of my shield or uair out of it after I shield a laser, but if he keeps shooting lasers or approaches with a move of his own I get beat out. Should I try fullhopping or something just to get above him?

I always get hit by laser grab.

Whenever they are teching I do the read, I go to where they tech, but they spot dodge. Two questions here:

do I have to techchase based on prediction? I'd like to think my reactions are fast enough to get to them before they can spot dodge.

If I miss my aerial or grab and they spotdodge, am I guaranteed to get hit or grabbed or is there anything I can do in response? gentlemen? buffer roll?

Also, do you have any tricks for DI'ing out of his combos? I've taken a tip from Silent wolf and am smash DI'ing downairs a lot near the edge, I'm actually being able to get to stage and tech on it where normally I might get hit at that 45 degree and get sent off stage. And sometimes I'm sent towards center stage. What about DI'ing shine? should I always DI behind him or just random DI to mess him up???

idk any help would be appreciated please scar and scar alone not anybody like jona or something

ok some quick bullet points, but first, you're going about the entire matchup wrong so hopefully after this you get a fresh start

=lasers=
lasers trap you and **** you, there's nothing you can do about it besides not challenging them. same with falco's aerials vs your aerials. you lose. don't challenge.

instead, you want to try to get inside falco's range and have him be NOT on offense, i.e. not lasering and not preparing his stupidly high priority aerials. have him either running away, or in some sort of lag, or in his shield, or sitting there utilting, or even run in shield vs his laggier attacks works for you, like his fsmash, dsmash, or dash attack

=out of shield=
first off, try not to shield. if you are in your shield, don't attack out of it vs good falcos. all of your aerials come out too slow, his nair and bair come out instantly and his dair obviously ***** you.

ROLL.

fullhopping is also not a bad idea.

=laser grab=
laser grab isn't that hard if you're ready for it, but again the issue is you getting trapped in your shield. it's better to eat a few lasers than to let falco approach you and get on the offense with easy laser grabs if he can count on you sheilding

buffer a roll if you know it's coming but the best idea is to see that he's approaching hard and jump away/double jump if you get hit by the laser, just don't give falco those free approaches.

=spotdodge=
good falcos spotdodge shining your appraoches = your stock

falcos could probably rely on this to win entire matches: do whatever, make it seem like they're vulnerable, spotdodge shine profit

however, if you're ready for them, dodges are your friend. if they do it enough, it's a free hit for you. run up and knee/dair instead of grabbing. knee vs spotdodge = knee + cc DI = stock at 40%. grab the ledge and you win.

the IDEA though is that you should be aware of when you HAVE reacted quickly enough and when you HAVEN'T. falcos who rely on dodge will dodge when you are coming at them, that's just the way it is. either you will grab them before the dodge or you won't, but that's on you. if you know that you haven't made it, just run up and knee.

you CAN get those grabs in on reaction, but it's not easy. tech in place is the hardest to react to.

=DI=
DI vs shine is really hard. the answer is down and away but it seems like nowadays that doesn't work either. the honest to god answer is that if you get shined, be prepared to lose your stock. if you don't take 40% consider yourself lucky. DON'T GET SHINED.

anyways, if you change your outlook on the match you'll do better. it seems like you're trying to create opportunities out of falco's approaches, and that's how YOU get in, by letting him get in. unfortunately that only works vs bad falcos, good falcos will destroy you when they are on the offensive and get in, like you're probably experiencing.

instead of letting him approach, you need to ROLL AWAY when he has you jammed up, start over, and make your own approaches, which is easier said than done. get in by running in and shielding, nairing sometimes, but mostly just empty hops and empty double jumps -- i've found that throwing nair around is bad in general, it extends your bodybox(?) and is easily beaten from below.

and as we always say, make every grab count. if you aren't super ****ing good at tech chasing, learn how to do it or lose to the best falcos in the world. it's not a winning matchup but it can be done.

 

[TheManaLord]

Alright, I'm glad you responded and a lot of those things are really good. Only one more question and it stems from the concept that's been talked about a lot lately and you mentioned

Staying close and offensive versus falco.

He's just faster, how can you keep the pressure and be so close to him as to not avoid his better priority aerials? It's a confusing concept for me and it's not where I like to be, moving around is the reason I play falcon and it's so hard against falco and it's really unnatural for me to stay so close to such a deadly character. I know it's not as simple as telling me what moves to use but in this case that's really what I'm asking. how can I keep him in his shield? It doesn't seem possible. I cancel all my aerials with gentlemen whenever I hit their shield but they can still escape after this or react out of their shield... I know my question is broad in asking how to utilize this tactic but it's just something I've never even seen only heard talked about. It doesn't seem possible to keep pressure on falco.

 

[Tomacawk]

wow scar thank you
****ing amazing post

 

[Mogwai]

Alright, I'm glad you responded and a lot of those things are really good. Only one more question and it stems from the concept that's been talked about a lot lately and you mentioned

Staying close and offensive versus falco.

He's just faster, how can you keep the pressure and be so close to him as to not avoid his better priority aerials? It's a confusing concept for me and it's not where I like to be, moving around is the reason I play falcon and it's so hard against falco and it's really unnatural for me to stay so close to such a deadly character. I know it's not as simple as telling me what moves to use but in this case that's really what I'm asking. how can I keep him in his shield? It doesn't seem possible. I cancel all my aerials with gentlemen whenever I hit their shield but they can still escape after this or react out of their shield... I know my question is broad in asking how to utilize this tactic but it's just something I've never even seen only heard talked about. It doesn't seem possible to keep pressure on falco.

it's about spacing. while Falco's aerials are higher priority than yours, you can still space nair in his face, especially vs. his shield since he cannot quickly turn around and bair (his only aerial that horizontally spaces well vs. nair). your nair kicks his nair in the face when you do it far enough away (his foot goes under your feet, while you're kicking him in the face) and most Falcos are too stupid to realize that fair actually matches up better vs. Falcon's spaced nair (that and if you guess wrong and fair at not a nair, you can get CC grabbed or raptor boosted or something stupid).

 

[Faithkeeper]

Ledgehopping

Is nair almost always the best option? I mean if they are pretty close, knee's always nice, but nair's two hits help against shieldgrabbers. (although if you predict the shield waveland>grab would probably be better) I've also seen a good bit of ledgehop uair. But I've also heard ledgehopping aerials is pretty risky, are there only certain characters it's worth the risk for? What are some of falcon's safer ways to get off the ledge? Should ledgehops be saved solely for when a enemy is in lag after their upb? I just haven't had a lot of experience in this area and I'm looking for input. Thank you for your time.

EDIT:

@falco discussion:

Can we sh dair over falco's shuffle when he approaches? I think I saw m2k do that to a fox once. Stoping approach + opportunity to tech chase would be amazing. utilt would out prioritize it, but most falcos I've played don't use that to approach.

 

[voorhese]

Is nair almost always the best option? I mean if they are pretty close, knee's always nice, but nair's two hits help against shieldgrabbers. (although if you predict the shield waveland>grab would probably be better) I've also seen a good bit of ledgehop uair. But I've also heard ledgehopping aerials is pretty risky, are there only certain characters it's worth the risk for? What are some of falcon's safer ways to get off the ledge? Should ledgehops be saved solely for when a enemy is in lag after their upb? I just haven't had a lot of experience in this area and I'm looking for input. Thank you for your time.

EDIT:

@falco discussion:

Can we sh dair over falco's shuffle when he approaches? I think I saw m2k do that to a fox once. Stoping approach + opportunity to tech chase would be amazing. utilt would out prioritize it, but most falcos I've played don't use that to approach.

idk ledghopping can be risky tho, fox can usmash OOS on u or Shine OOS and shinespike u etc

 

[Scar]

it's about spacing. while Falco's aerials are higher priority than yours, you can still space nair in his face, especially vs. his shield since he cannot quickly turn around and bair (his only aerial that horizontally spaces well vs. nair). your nair kicks his nair in the face when you do it far enough away (his foot goes under your feet, while you're kicking him in the face) and most Falcos are too stupid to realize that fair actually matches up better vs. Falcon's spaced nair (that and if you guess wrong and fair at not a nair, you can get CC grabbed or raptor boosted or something stupid).

reik started nairing against me in like '07

anyways yeah that's the point, also you can stay close, move around, and not attack. not attacking is actually pretty important in melee.

"staying close" and "moving around" need to happen at the same time =/

it's a hard matchup dude

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Scar I want to hear your opinion on how rock bottoming can advance Falcon's metagame.

 

[chiZZLeSD]

falcon's fsmash = people's elbow lol

 

[Scar]

Some of the Great Falcon Minds Come Together...

(4:50:37 PM) bigD: scar i have no idea how to beat samus
(4:50:55 PM) Scar: ya
(4:50:57 PM) Scar: i dont either
(4:50:58 PM) Scar: lol
(4:51:00 PM) Scar: ask hax

 

[S.R. XXVII]

You nair her on the ground, and uair in the air. Knee at every opportunity.

 

[Tomacawk]

You nair her on the ground, and uair in the air. Knee at every opportunity.

i had no idea the secret was so simple
you beat samus by changing characters to falco

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

You beat Samus by letting the Marths and Jiggs take care of the one or two Samus players you'll probably see at any given tourney.

 

[BigD!!!]

nah tomacawk i tried that

it helped a little but unless i got my fd which theyll ban for sure against falco its by no means guaranteed

man spaceballs ive been to 3 tournaments since i got back from india and had 5 tournament sets vs samus, including 3 at pound 4 alone. i think i played every samus at pound except for you

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Didn't you **** Alu at rom2?

 

[Tomacawk]

spaceballs speaks the truth i think
just don't play falcon against samus
it's too hard. i'm not saying it's a samus matchup but in order to compete you gotta play so much more gay and more patient than I'm willing to play

 

[Animal]

i use to get ***** by samuses up b out of shield like i would get ***** by tipmans fair. I would just keep running in2 it. Playing patient and spacing correctly is crucial

 

[Scar]

samus sucks just **** her

i beat every samus except hugs

i have a $50 mm vs hugs this weekend so we'll see if i can beat him too

i think i just have to be more patient, either that or just approach with knee more. fsmash trades with it tho so i'm gonna have to be smart about %s

 

[Deleted member]

how to **** hugs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onxuy4wz178

 

[ETWIST51294]

That definitely wasn't **** but you certainly outplayed him.

good ****

 

[Tomacawk]

lol@the comments from HugS
"I played like ****"

 

[ETWIST51294]

I thought that was funny too. xD

 

[`DNS`]

few pages back but vs falco's shine you probably want to di away and a bit down
if you di towards him you go like nowhere
but don't di the same way all the time.. take into consideration the platforms/etc. and just mix it up in general

 

[Scar]

good **** s2j

i like your style

come to cgc next weekend

 

[PEEF!]

BigD caught the strap from Tyser.

Tyser is a great player though. Never misses even a tiny bit of technical wave ****.

Falcon related news: BigD and I had a fun bracket set this weekend. I would've loved to have it recorded but it wasn't. Kindof glad because I couldn't punish tech in place the entire second match =[ Fun matches and thanks for the help BigD.

 

[ChivalRuse]

That reverse bair knee combo at the end was clutch.

 

[R00R]

Here is a trailer for my combo video

I Killed Mufasa V
THE WORST DI YET!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipo0bR2_riE

 

[`DNS`]

few pages back but vs falco's shine you probably want to di away and a bit down
if you di towards him you go like nowhere
but don't di the same way all the time.. take into consideration the platforms/etc. and just mix it up in general

oh also if you di up and a LITTLE bit towards him (so that you go straight up) i think he can't reach you with a shffl dair before you can jump(/whatever) out

 

[Roneblaster]

On Topic:

How to beat Falco:
Be Axe
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ2pk-JEs-c)
Scar, quit sucking Isai's **** and tell him hes bad, maybe it'll make him care enough to try.

Off Topic:

Shadowrun is a absolute monstrosity of a game in the worst possible way if you consider it a shooter.
It's merely terrible if you consider it an action game.
Gears 1 is far and away the best shooter on 360.

I respectfully disagree.

Disagreements can in-fact be civil, thank you sir.

 

[Agenie04991]

Two quick questions. 1) Is the stomp fast enough not to be shield grabbed? If not, can you space it or do something so you won't get grabbed?
2) After aerials like nair, I jab after to avoid the grab. Is there something I can do after the jab that is good or is there a better alternative? (it's frustrating because I usually aerial, jab to avoid the grab, and then get grabbed after I jab)

 

[`DNS`]

Gentleman->buffer roll?
idk if that would work or not

 

[DippnDots]

I'm pretty sure for number two you just gotta space better, that the tip of the jab gives falcon enough space to avoid retaliation.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Two quick questions. 1) Is the stomp fast enough not to be shield grabbed? If not, can you space it or do something so you won't get grabbed?
2) After aerials like nair, I jab after to avoid the grab. Is there something I can do after the jab that is good or is there a better alternative? (it's frustrating because I usually aerial, jab to avoid the grab, and then get grabbed after I jab)

1. no, never stomp on shield, you'll get *****. nair/gentlemen is much better for shield pressure.

2. You can dash the other way then dash at them and try to grab them. You have a lot lf options at this point.