Agreed. But once you take away options it makes it less deep.
This is one point that I agree with. The only difference to the way we see things is that you look at options lost, while I look at options gained. Are there more gained than lost? Are there more lost than gained? When we discuss depth, we are merely discussing options. The more options in a game, the more depth there is to it.
Its not even close to being deeper than melee. Or as deep for that matter. You had way more options and tricks to pull out while edge guarding. More things to learn and practice and have the option to do (depth). I'll name a few right now. Using moves on stage that hit below the stage to edge guard. WDing past the ledge to immediate ariels. I could go on. But as you can see theres more options in melee options = depth no denying it.
Its useless to compile a list. We couldn't hope to encompass everything either game has to offer, and what either of them could offer in the future (as Melee is indeed still evolving, albiet slower than it once did). There is one thing that I have said throughout this: I will not accept the popular belief that the options lost outweigh the options gained. For all we know, there could be MORE options gained than lost. The argument that has been repeated to death resurfaces once again: It is too early to tell.
Agreed. But once you take away options it makes it less deep. Which brawls inferior engine does. Especially with the edge game. However it is nice to have an advantage from practicing more than your opponent (more consistent tech skill. )
I see nothing more than an opinion here. Hey, did you know that some ledge attacks when you press A to get up can actually hit below the stage? And that it can stage spike some recoveries given the right timing?
Nope they aren't, but the fact that brawl's edge game has less options isn't an opinion.
Oh wait, thats right, I forgot. You seem to know all the options the game has already. Because its been out for a whole 3 months now. Yeah, there is much to this game that we don't know yet, so stop pretending like you have some omnipotent vision over the game. I don't care if you
think that Brawl has less options. That is your right to do so, your opinion, and you are entitled to that. But stop pretending like its fact.
Yeah, we haven't heard that enough or that we have to adapt or that brawl has more mindgames than brawl. >_> Brawl isn't melee (thank god) and we don't have to adapt we can just stop being stubborn and playing this awful game competitively. And brawl doesn't have 1/2 the mindgames melee had. one argument that they are more important once seemed ok enough for me to let go until I thought about it and realized that they are even more important in melee. This is a whole different topic tho.
Indeed, this is a topic I don't really feel like getting into right now.
I can't begin to imagine how many options there are in Melee, nor how many there are in Brawl. I am honestly frustrated when I see people so
intensely focused on the options that were lost, that they fail to see the options gained. As a moderator, I've been
required to read this far more than you could imagine, and I am just plain sick of it. I apologize if I sounded harsh at all, but I'm not in the best of moods and I'm just fed up watching people try to pass off their opinion as if it were fact. And then there is this whole thing about people pretending to know everything there is to the game, and complaining that there is no way to beat some characters or strategies.
Let me tell you, I've been a part of quite a few communities when a sequel to a game was released. For an example, I'll use Battle For Middle Earth 2, an RTS game for the PC. The RTS genre has some of the smartest, most strategic players behind it. People are constantly looking for new ways to play, new strategies to use, new moves to make, and the game kept changing. But you know whats funny? Every time there was a new strategy that was overpowering, 90% of the community cried about it. Pros included. They say something is overpowering or too cheap. Some strategy is too good and there is no way to beat it. Then a week or two passes by and they completely forget about even saying that. Smash isn't an RTS though, so it takes more time to find these counters and inact them. That doesn't change the fact that, whether we can see it right now or not, there IS a counter to the things that frustrate us now. The game WILL evolve further.
However, Smash isn't as straightforward or easy as an RTS is to evolve. We have to evolve the game by making it do things it wasn't intended to do. We can't constantly be testing these things against live opponents, because wifi sucks balls, so we have to spend even
more time on top of trying to break the game. It is by no means an easy or quick task. Our experience from Melee helps us sift through which "discoveries" are crap, but it doesn't help us very much when we try to discover new things. The Smash community isn't special. We aren't magically going to uncover everything in the first few months of release. Calm down and be patient. Go back and play Melee for awhile. Maybe try out a couple other games. Come back to Brawl in a year or two. See where we are then. If we haven't evolved much further than polishing what you see now, then don't bother with the game. But I can tell you right now that in two years time, we will be infinitely better at the game than we are now. We'll watch videos of ourselves play and laugh at how bad we used to be. We don't know every option available to us now. Pretending that we do is just plain silly.
Ugh, I don't feel like typing anymore. I'm sure I got off topic a couple times in there, but I don't really care right now. Its been a long day so I'm just going to go to bed.
