Saving the Nair?

[East]

So I've recently been thinking about Sheik's lack of ability to kill, and trying to offer up some solution, to at least make the job easier on my part.

I've also been thinking about my ability to approach as Sheik [and how terrible it is].

This led me to widdle down my selection of moves to using the ones I need only when I need them [so to reduce decay for killing moves]. After categorizing my moves I was unable to place the nair as anything. I know that during the initial hit it's pretty strong and has decent knockback, which led me to my final question:

Is it a good idea to save the Nair as a killing move for Sheik?

 

[Kataefi]

At the end of the day, if she can't set up that decayed Ftilt > tipper USmash, and your opponent is wise to Sheik's gimping potential, then just transform and kill them with one touch (providing the opponent is at the correct percents).

She'll have a hard time killing otherwise. I'm not informed about nair's kill potential, when does it even start killing from the centre of FD? I'll have a look at its knockback growth rate tonight actually.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I'm 50 50 on this.

Nair is good to use in normal matches a lot for these reasons:

It comes out pretty fast and can help with a CGing Falco or a Gonzo.

It is good for follow ups in the air cuz of its lasting hit box (I love sex kicks).

I also use it for a step dodging opponent. This is a good combo on a step dodge spammer.
Nair (weak hit)> Grab

Nair is also good as an air dodge counter.

However, my favorite use for Nair is this.
f-tilt> f-tilt> Nair
That combo works at higher percents.


Now TBH. I believe it is good as a KOr as well.

Lets say you get the foe over the pit. A Nair can easily finish him off. In other words.... use it as Wolfs Bair guard.

Not only is it easy, but it is also VERY effective.



Bottom line IMO. Use it when the situation calls for it, and vsave it if you can.

 

[Zankoku]

It can KO about 20% more effectively than dsmash.

But it's been a while since I focused on killing at low %s.

 

[Voyeur]

I think the strong hitbox on Nair should be saved and used more for KO purposes since Sheik doesn't have to many.

So yes, save it East :]

80% ish or more, with a pivot boost grab to bthrow or a normal grab to Fthrow and just wait for that nair to come. Or even SH to Nair Out of Shield right at the ledges. It will KO them, if not send them far enough to get an easy gimp/ edge hog.

It's not good as an approach or retreat. It's indefinitely a Killing move. The equivalent of Sheik's Fair back in Melee almost. So think of it like that. It is going to be killing / KO'ing or knocking people back far enough to guarantee a stock in your favor.

 

[Kataefi]

The problem with sex kicks are they're usually moves with high decay rates. Nair can be moderately strong when fresh, but when used once it decays to the point where it cannot reliably kill anymore.

Essentially you could be missing out on opportunities and situations in which nair would prove very usable, (as savior described) for the sake of killng, when an opponent could most likely survive the hit unless they were at kill percents of when her other moves would kill just as effectively anyways.

But I'll look at the growth knockback rate tonight and see just how effective it is at killing. The results could be useful for you ^^

 

[Voyeur]

hence that is why he's asking to save it. Being that when the moment arrives, the NAIR would be fresh and able to KO in the situations I stated, and the Ftilt to Nair at high percents.

I don't see many other times during the lower %'s nair being a useful move. Needles, grab, pivot boost grabs, Fairs, Ftilt, etc. Jab cancels to grab. Those are more effective damage rackers, and over all contribute to the greater DPS. Using Nair at early percents isn't as effective. Since, Bair covers that purpose.

Bair is a better spacing tool, has great damage, etc. Nair is definitely going to be used more or less as a KO option. Thus, yes, it should be saved for that. Using it wildly or unnecessarly before opportunities to KO with it, only hampers it's ability. Bair, Fair, Ftilt, needles, & grabs (grabs play an important role with Sheik so much I've come to notice) are better for what ever situation you may be placing Nair into, damage wise.

Tipper UpSmash, Dsmash, Nair & Vanish usually provide the "early" (80-110%) KO's.

Anything else is either a gimp e.g. needle, bair to stage spike, or the % on the opponent is so high, even Bair or Fair is going to kill. So in retrospect, Nair is a better option to save for "early" KO percents rather then a damage racker or way to follow up earlier % combos, when other moves work just as effectively.

 

[Zankoku]

Saying that the only time Sheik is using an attack is to gimp or rack damage is being unrealistic.

Because, you know, Sheik can't always be on the advantage.

 

[Voyeur]

short of doing Ftilt then backing off to space. Or Fair to momentum gather back to ledge, when would you be using attacks freely out of spite? If you're doing an attack and it's not connecting or to parry, you're wasting the effort to the greater cause of your victory by doing meaningless things. Putting energy(effort) where it's not needed.

e.g. Each move executed should be productive. When you're on the defensive, or not in advantage, Shielding, spot dodge, grabbing (gaining invincibility frames) is usually what you're doing? Or did you mean to use attacks to parry, etc. And yes saying that each move is always the positive out come is unrealistic. But that should be your goal. What I'm saying in the above though is that, when and where would Nair be used over other plausible moves at Sheik's disposal? When Nair is clearly better to save for that 80%+ KO advantage.

I just think I'm misunderstanding where you're coming from Ankoku or visa verca.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Nair is one of my primary moves to end damage-building ftilt combos with, so no, I wouldn't advise it. You should be ftilt-Usmashing everything. Unless the match is ridiculously bad for Zelda, you should then be using her.

 

[Zankoku]

short of doing Ftilt then backing off to space. Or Fair to momentum gather back to ledge, when would you be using attacks freely out of spite? If you're doing an attack and it's not connecting or to parry, you're wasting the effort to the greater cause of your victory by doing meaningless things. Putting energy(effort) where it's not needed.

e.g. Each move executed should be productive. When you're on the defensive, or not in advantage, Shielding, spot dodge, grabbing (gaining invincibility frames) is usually what you're doing? Or did you mean to use attacks to parry, etc. And yes saying that each move is always the positive out come is unrealistic. But that should be your goal. What I'm saying in the above though is that, when and where would Nair be used over other plausible moves at Sheik's disposal? When Nair is clearly better to save for that 80%+ KO advantage.

I just think I'm misunderstanding where you're coming from Ankoku or visa verca.

I'm saying that nair is your (second) fastest option out of shield, for the many many situations when you will end up shielding an attack, and it can reach above the limits of a grab. Sealing any portion of your moveset will limit you, whether you believe so or not.

 

[Ajax615]

The N air is a very highly effective kill move above 100 percent and someone is just coming up from the edge. I however don't trust a dsmash as a killing move due to the high punishment if blocked.

 

[Voyeur]

I think we're on the same page Ankoku, since I mentioned the OoS option earlier. But your guys views of restricting the use of a move hampers Sheiks' over all performance and ability which makes sense.

Your main objective should always go for a gimp. Since, that's what Sheik excels at. After that, Tilt to Upsmash. Anything else is secondary but still useful. It's the personal preference and play style of the person.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I personally use Nair more for a 'get-off-me' move, or prevent spacing on the opponent's behalf since it's priority is pretty nice and the knockback isn't bad. I hardly use it to kill, and when I do KO with it, it's usually by accident.

The thing is, Nair has decent knockback throughout all percents, but unlike it with Fair or Uair, it's knockback doesn't rise as exponentially as those aerials, so most of the time, you'd better off Fair, Bair, or Uair since those have a higher chance to KO usually at mid to high percents.

At least that's how I think of it as.

 

[Zankoku]

Actually, nair has the highest growth rate out of her aerials, edging out bair even though bair is actually stronger initially.

 

[Blistering Speed]

N Air is too good. You have two options either:
-Use it for its all purpose awesome, aerial interception, C-C-Combo breaker, strong OOS option, F Tilt finisher etc.
-Save it for the kill (note, don't think this implicates only on stage use, a fresh N Air off the edge kills at relatively great percents for Sheik).

Either are viable options, just as long as you make sure you DO use it. Good hitbox and the joint fastest aerial in the freaking game.

*Edit* You can also apply nearly this exact argument to D Smash.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Really? Doesn't seem like it in my opinion.

Then again, DI plays a factor I suppose.

 

[Charoo]

fun fact: nair dsmash and up tilt deals the same damage.

saving nair for killing is kinda hard. That move is too versatile to not use it. I guess u can fair instead of nair if u wanna save nair up.

I usually kill people with fair though...

 

[Voyeur]

fun fact: nair dsmash and up tilt deals the same damage.

saving nair for killing is kinda hard. That move is too versatile to not use it. I guess u can fair instead of nair if u wanna save nair up.

I usually kill people with fair though...

fun fact: you usually gimp R.O.B.s :]

 

[Rog~er]

nair has too much priority to be saved for just a killing move.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I really don't think it needs to be saved.

To be fair though I almost never use the move. F-air seems to do the job for me just fine.

P.s. wtf? All the topics are stickies? Best. Board. EVAAARRR.

Edit: Haaa April fooelz. Lawlz.

 

[rathy Aro]

I find it too useful for other things like ending ftilt locks or a quick OOS attack or if I want to do a safe aerial so I say don't save it. Of the stage you can use fair to kill as fast or faster and on the stage you can use dsmash which will probably kill faster if you save it (like i tend to). So definitely don't save it especially if you feel it limits you.

 

[choknater]

Guys, please read my thread. nair is pretty useless compard to fsmash and DACUS, which are all you need basically.

 

[rathy Aro]

Guys, please read my thread. nair is pretty useless compard to fsmash and DACUS, which are all you need basically.

I get the feeling that thread has something to do with what day it is. =P Fsmash=/=unpunishable. XD

 

[choknater]

No, it is, you're just not good enough at spacing.

 

[Blistering Speed]

nair has too much priority to be saved for just a killing move.

Aerials don't have priority.

 

[Zankoku]

What is priority?

 

[rathy Aro]

What is priority?

When two attacks hit each other the one with higher priority will succeed. If they have equal priority they clank. *takes Ankoku's researcher status*

Seriously though, I always thought that's what it is and I've heard that aerials don't have priority, but I never really understood what that meant. So correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Zankoku]

Thank you, and aerials do actually have priority, but it isn't applied except against specials.

Likely what Rog~er actually meant was that nair has a decently large hitbox.

 

[Soma]

If you really need the n-air for a possible kill move, just avoid spamming it. A grab at decent percentage should lead to removing the decay. In other words just use it moderately and you should be fine.

 

[Flamingo]

Dont save the versatile Nair.