Santi spills all of his knowledge.

[DyranMahBoooiii]

I'm having alot of trouble trying to use the hookshot. I keep coming up a bit short and becoming open for punishment, or I almost manage to hit but the other players roll away in time. Any suggestions?

 

[Bomber7]

@ Dryan

have you heard of Z-airing? ITs a really usefull move, shop hop and press Z and it eleminates lag when landing and you can instantly follow up with vertually anything. I like F-smash or a grab. It's also good for spacing. you can also short hop airdodge and hookshot too.

Using the hookshot for recovery just press Z. you can regain invincibility frams by tilting you analog stick down and pressing Z in one smooth motion, you'll see TL slide down his hook shot then back up to regain his Invinci frames. you can do it 2 mor times after you hook shot the ledge? maybe 3. no more than 3 i know.

Also a bomb grapple trick: throw a bomb up, you can:

1) grab them throw them up into the bomb
2) grab them beat them up with Z and when it comes close to your head throw in any direction but foreward and not get hurt
3) if they are some distance away, run to them, grab, back throw into falling bomb. with practice it can be a good mind game. I enjoyed it in meele =D

 

[DyranMahBoooiii]

@ Dryan

have you heard of Z-airing? ITs a really usefull move, shop hop and press Z and it eleminates lag when landing and you can instantly follow up with vertually anything.

Nah, I've been thinking like it was Melee a bit and trying to L-cancel accidentally, but I didn't know you could Z cancel. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Bomber7]

no problem. =D

 

[DCStyle]

When I recover with hookshot from the ledge, I first press shield then a, just because you could technically go into an air dodge, fall short, then do an up-b hitting your opponent, all determined by how bad his distancing is.

 

[iRjOn]

@Iron: I'm fairly certain that you can't tilt while running.
On a similar topic (although I doubt it's not known) you can't do down anything without stopping.

Of course, stop just turn around upon stop like you going to RAR and just utilt
course it takes practice but
meh...

 

[Santi]

IM SORRY EVERYONE!!!

My keyboard was out
:/

Now its working
:D
Ill try to reply to everything soon if it hasn't been answered already.
Thanks to everyone that helped out when I was out. ( I know nobody notcied )

I just can't get anything done tonight.
I just got off work and still have pre cal

 

[iRjOn]

Course we noticed


Check out my guide when you can
:D

 

[TheFast]

best thing toon can do is gimp him, bombs work wonders, tether recover if u can just make sure u dont get hit by down air its nasty, learn how to foot stool his second jump if u get him low enough then he wont be able to egg back once confident with foot stool go for the spike now and again for extra added ownage, one of his best kills are up out of the screen at around 50%, but up air works well from about a full jump on FD u can kill him around 70% even better with a bomb to hit him into, AND down smash him near the edge between 0%and 26% for the easy gimp, iv only ever gone against one yoshi player won every time but yea hope i helped ya

You have not played a good yoshi. Good yoshis are almost impossiable to gimp.

 

[Jman115]

i guess my present question is what are your basic strategies for falco players? I have played a couple and I have to say they are definitely the biggest challenge for me. How do you approach their laser spam on maps like FD? Their spike can be a killer on recovery. Although I did recently discover that if they like to recover with Illusion you can actually gimp them with arrows.

 

[chaos11011]

when going close to a falco and your % is low enogh for falco to CG hold a bomb

 

[Chip.]

Better idea

Don't get grabbed

 

[chaos11011]

you beat me chippy

 

[Bomber7]

well unles you have the instince for spot dodge or dodge roll like I somehow had in meele as MArth, I highly doubt you's be able to effectivly do it.

Heres an idea. play mind games, bomb yourself till you are at like high 30-45% then after 45% its impossible for you to be CG'd. Not to mention if you win, you gave him at least a 45% handicap per life.

 

[Santi]

Im fine with where we are on the tier list... we didn't move since last time so it's really no biggee for me. Other characters moved up that should of and others move down that deserved to. So I'm ok with us staying mid tier.


Falco is one of those characters that when you play against them, it is very important to maintain mid- range. VERY IMPORTANT! Mid range attacks such as the nair/ zair are great options since you can space very well with those from the ground. Bair does pretty good against Falco's air game. Be careful when you use quickdraw because soem falcos run in and perfect shield then get their grab after that arrow.

Against laser spam on FD, I either use TL's great jumps or approach carefully with dashes into shield and believe it or not... walking :D
It just gets gay though when the Falco starts to side B away.. then side B away... then laser.. then side B away lol

What else did I miss?
Running late to work oops.


I found my combo video song

 

[VietGeek]

well unles you have the instince for spot dodge or dodge roll like I somehow had in meele as MArth, I highly doubt you's be able to effectivly do it.

Heres an idea. play mind games, bomb yourself till you are at like high 30-45% then after 45% its impossible for you to be CG'd. Not to mention if you win, you gave him at least a 45% handicap per life.

Doesn't work as well as it does for Snake because TL...actually dies. DON'T DO IT MAN.

Also you should be able to DI up and meteor cancel (if they try to spike) or DI away or jab or try to footstool to avoid it. <_<

 

[KBM]

yeah I can usually DI to safety after falco's chaingrab, but TL should totally be able to meteor recover like Viet Geek said.

the most important thing is probably to not spam your jump button while you're getting chaingrabbed. spam the A button or air dodge, but it's certainly plausible that you'll use the first frame of your jump and still get grabbed, leaving yourself several degrees more screwed than had you saved it.

chain grab isn't so scary once you get used to it, just don't get into close-range because Falco's up tilts and jabs are murder.

 

[Bomber7]

yeah, I'm gona have to remeber no matter what character I am to just let the chain grab get me, if I get cought. otherwise I will try to air dodge and press A.

I wouldnt do that bomb thing unless I knew I was gona lose, it would be a funny mind game.

 

[DCStyle]

well unles you have the instince for spot dodge or dodge roll like I somehow had in meele as MArth, I highly doubt you's be able to effectivly do it.

Heres an idea. play mind games, bomb yourself till you are at like high 30-45% then after 45% its impossible for you to be CG'd. Not to mention if you win, you gave him at least a 45% handicap per life.

I hope you were kidding...
Much more risk in damaging yourself to 45% than avoiding getting CGed...

Also, I tend to release my bombs when I'm closer up to Falco because he wouldn't be able to use his reflector fast enough, which then kills the strategy for holding onto a bomb while getting CGed. I usually don't have a bomb in hand when Falco's close enough to grab.

 

[Bomber7]

I hope you were kidding...
Much more risk in damaging yourself to 45% than avoiding getting CGed...

Also, I tend to release my bombs when I'm closer up to Falco because he wouldn't be able to use his reflector fast enough, which then kills the strategy for holding onto a bomb while getting CGed. I usually don't have a bomb in hand when Falco's close enough to grab.

If you saw my post up above you'd see I was kidding. But I got a question. Of course we need to have a bomb in hand, but...BUT!!!!!!! when we fly into the air from the grab, can we possible hit Z and disrupt the chain grab? I wouldnt mind doing that cuz I am not good enough on recovery or edge game against a good falco.

 

[KBM]

nah, zair's not fast enough bomber
marth's up b and zamus's down b are the only things that come to mind that can get you out of it

 

[Chip.]

There is no way to DI Falco's Chain-grab so you're safe. Only if the Falco screws up with his timing can you DJ away which might not be a good idea because I think if you DJ and get grabbed again you lose your DJ after the throw. When he spikes you off the edge it wouldn't be a good idea to not have the DJ just in case.

 

[KBM]

When i said "DI to safety" i meant once I end up off the side of the stage after he down-throws, i usually push down and away from the stage, whichever diagonal that is. it's difficult for falco to Dair me out of a short hop without fastfalling (which falco does not want to do) if I DI that way.

 

[VietGeek]

You know you can SDI into the stage and walltach if you want sexy points <_<

 

[Santi]

I think you only lose your DJ if you use your DJ and get grabbed again... and your feet are hanging off the ledge.
I'm not sure though lol.

I need to clear this up.
Ill try to find out soon. I'll ask Sethlon, he might know about how people lose their jumps to Falco's chaingrabs.

 

[Lobos]

He has to grab you either right before you try to jump or on the way down. If you also want to limit falco chain grab, play near the edge with your back facing it. It's very risky but limits the damage from the chain grab. It's CRAZY!!!

What's TL % for not being chain grabbed anymore? I know its like between 45-55% to DI away from it.

 

[iRjOn]

Yea Lobos I believe its 45%

 

[Jman115]

Thanks for the tips. I have trouble using zair during laser spam because the laser usually hits me before the zair reaches him. But I also have to work on my zair more. I haven't gotten the perfect spacing/timing down quite yet. But nair has proved to work very well, especially when he goes on the offensive. Nair OOS destroys him and usually can be followed up with a boomerang or an arrow hit.

 

[KBM]

He has to grab you either right before you try to jump or on the way down. If you also want to limit falco chain grab, play near the edge with your back facing it. It's very risky but limits the damage from the chain grab. It's CRAZY!!!

What's TL % for not being chain grabbed anymore? I know its like between 45-55% to DI away from it.

Unfortunately I am forced to disagree. Skilled falco players will D-throw you, then run behind you and pivot grab you, then CG you over to the OTHER edge and try to Dair you.

Heck, I can even do it.


Point is though, being near the edge wont stop you from getting chain grabbed :/

 

[clowsui]

yeah pivot grabbing is more common
hey santi why is quivo so ****? he ain't even got dem goggles
he beat os again and almost beat him in grand finals :o

 

[❀W.E.M.P.❀]

it's the mustache in his avatar. that is fact.

 

[clowsui]

man that mustache didn't even belong to him originally
it belonged to the great ness player "SmasH64"

 

[Shadow Moth]

And was passed down generation after generation until finally...

 

[QUIVO]

That mustache belongs to mvc2 and pringles

 

[Sosuke]

mustache + goggles = ?!??

 

[TheJerm]

No! santi already has a partner lol. Quivo is my partner, we ***** too hard xD

 

[❀W.E.M.P.❀]

i think he was wondering if one toon had the power of both the mustache and the goggles, what would happen.



imo

black hole would destroy the planet

 

[Alzi]

mustache + goggles = ?!??

Super Sayen.

I'm getting better with toon link and spacing. What do you have to watch out for against a wario and rob and what moves should you be using agaisnt them?

 

[iRjOn]

Super Sayen.

I'm getting better with toon link and spacing. What do you have to watch out for against a wario and rob and what moves should you be using agaisnt them?

Everything to keep ROB's mother drive from booting
And everything to keep Wario outta your face.

Against Wario becareful he has OMG aerial DI.

 

[Lobos]

Unfortunately I am forced to disagree. Skilled falco players will D-throw you, then run behind you and pivot grab you, then CG you over to the OTHER edge and try to Dair you.

Heck, I can even do it.


Point is though, being near the edge wont stop you from getting chain grabbed :/

You can get out of it if falco pivots grabs.