Shmooguy
Smash Champion
banning neutrals would be amazing.
-
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San Diego Lovin' - Triweekly XXXII - December 1st
- Thread starter AzN_Lep
- Start date
TheBOSS
Smash Lord
kira is that u?
if so, r u going and if so to that, are we teaming again and winning first this time? lol
Rickety
Peace and Love
I must play 3S with Jflo
LHG would be my favorite if he found a Megaphone for us :]
I wish I could house AZ, but I might be leaving for Disneyland on Sunday! Put me down as a Maybe for housing :]
Giza needs to take a chill pill! The people have spoken! And we're trying to emulate and streamline our rules to make them more like the UCLA monthlies! They have firmly established themselves as the premiere tournament series in SoCal now.
I Love David Cao :]
<333
BOSS is too cute with Jiggly! :]
Kira is too good :]
The Polls have Closed!
Neutral Banning is allowed! :]
Please Check the tournament rules on the first post and tell me what you guys think! :] Feel free to leave suggestions!
<3
rickety
LHG would be my favorite if he found a Megaphone for us :]
I wish I could house AZ, but I might be leaving for Disneyland on Sunday! Put me down as a Maybe for housing :]
Giza needs to take a chill pill! The people have spoken! And we're trying to emulate and streamline our rules to make them more like the UCLA monthlies! They have firmly established themselves as the premiere tournament series in SoCal now.
I Love David Cao :]
<333
BOSS is too cute with Jiggly! :]
Kira is too good :]
The Polls have Closed!
Neutral Banning is allowed! :]
Please Check the tournament rules on the first post and tell me what you guys think! :] Feel free to leave suggestions!
<3
rickety
Team Giza
Smash Lord
Yeah cause we cannot mainstream stuff to major tournaments. I'm staying firm on this one. I just wanted to fight like a gentleman but appearantly that cannot be done with all this Gutter trash around.
TheBOSS
Smash Lord
what the hell r u talking about? lol
Forward and Taj call me I may be able to house ya guys but I gotta talk to you first. (949) 294 5737.
Team Giza
Smash Lord
The infinite has been in the game forever. Its been common knowledge to the community for the last 2-3 years too. And we are just banning it now? There hasnt been some sort of change recently to cause this. No further proof that it is broken. Nothing. We just suddenly ban it out of nowhere. It really frustrates me that our community would do something like this to ourselves. Its bad. Very very bad. This is a fighting game we are playing. We are playing it competitively. If SoCAL is gonna ban this infinite they better have a **** good reason to ban it now and explain why it wasnt banned over the last 2-3 years since the tactic became common knowledge.
AzN_Lep
Smash Champion
Honestly, the only one affected by banning wobbling is me, and I have no problem at all with it being banned. ICs have enough going for them in their grab game past the point where they need to wobble. Although the infinite HAS been known for quite some time, it hasn't been successfully integrated into gameplay until recently, and now that it has, many IC players in SD (or just me I guess) are given an unfair advantage. One grab leads to an instant stock without any chance for escape. Sure you can argue that you shouldn't get grabbed, or that wobbling takes copious amounts of skill (which it doesn't), but when it really comes down to it, IC now have an easily applicable instant kill technique and no other character has it. Many people find this kind of cheap, unfair, or broken even. Whether or not they're right is a matter of opinion, but the fact remains true that it is a guaranteed kill at virtually any percent with a very small (if any) margin for error. Regardless, it's up to the staff to make the rules. They deemed that wobbling has become unbalanced (which is pretty hard to argue against) recently, as players have been able to pull it off with ease in tournement conditions.
Team Giza
Smash Lord
You make a good point Azn. However Fox has had an instant kill since the beginning, yes not many people can perform it well. But potentially once a Fox lands a ground shine on a certain characters he can shine them indefinitely until he reaches an edge, which at that point he can shine spike. I suppose we could argue that you can smash the shine spike to go straight up to though. @.@ ack rambling about potential gameplay again.
The thing is this doesnt only affect you Azn. It affects everyone in the community to some extent, especially people with the Slow Finger handicap like me. Anyway, since I hear your the one who brought it up, let me get some friendly matchs in with you at the next triweekly with wobbles allowed. I greatly need the experience.
The thing is this doesnt only affect you Azn. It affects everyone in the community to some extent, especially people with the Slow Finger handicap like me. Anyway, since I hear your the one who brought it up, let me get some friendly matchs in with you at the next triweekly with wobbles allowed. I greatly need the experience.
Fox related stuff takes skill, and shine spikes don't happen frequently in my experience, while grabs do. I don't really have a view on the whole wobble thing but I find it annoying that I get punished with a 0-death when I mess up a simple L cancel-shine. Not only that, but not every character has a shine or a fast jab, kinda makes it unbalanced.
Team Giza
Smash Lord
The shine makes things somewhat unbalanced as does wobbling when you isolate the ideas. However if you look at the big picture of Ice Climbers it really isnt that bad. Believe it or not, Ice climbers dont really have a good grab game. They have an awesome throw game but not a good grab game. Yes skilled ICs will be able to have tons of tricks to pull people into a grab. But there are also counter tricks, you just have to learn them, and if you cannot with your main character then pick up another one. As for me I mess up L cancel all the time, and if I am fighting an Ice Climber, you know what? I deserve to get grabbed if I miss an L-cancel at an unsafe time. I deserve to lose a stock for that. If I get waveshined to shine spike when I miss a grab I deserve that. If I mess up on while shielding against Peach's d-smash I deserve to get caught in it and take those multiple hits. If you dont think you deserve big punishments for making mistakes like that then you are playing the wrong game. If I recall this is about competitively playing Smash. If you make a mistake you better get ready to be hit hard for it, thats how it goes and thats how it should be. Step up and get better. If you mess something up against a good marth, chances are he is gonna combo you to death. So why should we make it different with the ICs?
Yes, Ice Climbers already got alot of things that are just slightly less effective going for there throw game. But that isnt a real reason why you should ban the tactic. Just cause they are still decent in that area with out the move does not mean the move should be removed from the game. It is part of the ICs arsenal and I dont think it should be removed.
And AzN_Lep... as you know... you are probably the only IC player in San Diego. You cannot tell me that this tactic is broken when you are the only one playing as these characters. If this tactic was really so easy to master and so broken that it deserved to be banned, you have to at admit that there should be more IC players.
forward
Smash Champion
Wiggle out of grabs under 30%, keep nana away from popo, stay on platforms, watch out for the jab-grab set up, space yourself, don't attack stupidly, kill nana, keep knocking nana in the air, keep knocking nana on the ground, spam projectiles, pick peach and down smash, pick IC and down smash, pick marth and down tilt, pick fox and shine, pick falco and down throw, pick sheik and throw needles, pick falcon and forward b............... I could go on for days.
All good strats for avoiding the wobble, and for fighting IC in general.
Oh ya, even tho I have all these anti-wobble strats, you should still ban it
All good strats for avoiding the wobble, and for fighting IC in general.
Oh ya, even tho I have all these anti-wobble strats, you should still ban it
nublet06
Smash Lord
dang taj and forward. TOOOOOO GOOOd.
i gotta figure out some way to get palmdale to this shiz. people are broke and BoA's parents treat him like hes 12.
anyone interested in housing palmdale friday night? might do some sort of 2 day vacation in SD.
i gotta figure out some way to get palmdale to this shiz. people are broke and BoA's parents treat him like hes 12.
anyone interested in housing palmdale friday night? might do some sort of 2 day vacation in SD.
AzN_Lep
Smash Champion
Unfortunately we're not talking about potential, but applicability. 3 years ago ICs had an infinite grab that could potentially upset the balance in the game. However since it was just potential 3 years ago, there were no actions taken to ban it. Now that this potential has become a very real application to the ICs metagame, banning it should definitely be taken into consideration. Likewise with Fox. We can all rant and rave that Fox is potentially the best character when played frame for frame, and that his shine is broken when used correctly 100% of the time. Nevertheless for the time being this frame specific percision is highly inapplicable.Team Giza said:
EDIT: Palmdale coming!?!? Too goodz! How many of ya are makin the tripsies? I might be able to house if its not too overbearing.
Team Giza
Smash Lord
If it was such a broken techique why havent ICs been dominiating all the tournaments since its been being applied to the ICs metagame? It has yet to break the actual game, it has yet to show any signs of breaking the game. When it does then I think we should activate the bannage, not now.
nublet06
Smash Lord
meh....wobbling isnt that bad. its just boring. what ever happened to no johns?
im not sure if Palmdale will make it for sure. i myself im pretty tight on money. ill post back once i figure some things out.
im not sure if Palmdale will make it for sure. i myself im pretty tight on money. ill post back once i figure some things out.
Nightblade
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2006
- Messages
- 260
How about we try it for a single Triweekly, and then not do it next time? Let's see how it affects the results.
Team Giza
Smash Lord
Still wont say much, we dont even have enough IC players here to do productive research on the subject. I would pick the IC up but that wouldnt be helpful either since Ive put hours and hours into learning the infinite and cannout preform it, slow fingers or lack of rhythm I dont know. But the thing is we just dont have enough ICs to actually compare results in a way that actually shows us anything.
I guess I cannot do much about this but complain for now. And I will complain!!! Believe you me I will! I want to take these wobblers and give them learn how to beat the heck out of them... and you guys are ruining this for me. NAH MAN! I wont let you guys take this away from me. :bandit:
Rickety
Peace and Love
Beaches, Peaches, and Hax.
You do raise many good points, but the fact remains that the people have spoken (including the great Forward! <3 ), and we are trying to better emulate the UCLA monthlies while making our tournament smoother. If these rules really bother you that much, please don't come to anymore triweeklies, especially if you plan to bring this kind of attitude in person. That being said, I hope you do continue to attend, since you're one of the few people who's been around since the beginning, and you have always been a respectful person. Come on now, there are still plenty of things you can improve on your game! The idea that the smash community has hit a glass ceiling because of this is absurd. Yes, worrying about wobbling will probably make us better in the long run, but let's not forget that smash is qlso about having fun :]
Let's do it, CAOTIC-style:
San Diego LOVE! <3
I hope you guys are able to come! We need Luigi love! <3
In San Diego, there are 3 people who have a winning record over Azn_Lep: Edrees (Peach), Jon619 (Marth), and Bone (Peach), though SA2Jeff (Peach) also in my opinion should have a winning record over him, too (you know which match I'm thinking of, Pat :] )
Giza, Between your last few posts on this thread, and the 2+ hour AIM conversation we had last night that at times bordered on Goldenmuffin-levels of absurdity, you seem like a totally different person
You do raise many good points, but the fact remains that the people have spoken (including the great Forward! <3 ), and we are trying to better emulate the UCLA monthlies while making our tournament smoother. If these rules really bother you that much, please don't come to anymore triweeklies, especially if you plan to bring this kind of attitude in person. That being said, I hope you do continue to attend, since you're one of the few people who's been around since the beginning, and you have always been a respectful person. Come on now, there are still plenty of things you can improve on your game! The idea that the smash community has hit a glass ceiling because of this is absurd. Yes, worrying about wobbling will probably make us better in the long run, but let's not forget that smash is qlso about having fun :]Let's do it, CAOTIC-style:
San Diego LOVE! <3
Nwordtim
Smash Journeyman
IT OVER TWO HOURS!!!! dam Giza your funking crazy dude and "Goldenmuffin-levels of absurdity" is the highest level of honor a person can receive.
pressthebutton
Smash Apprentice
yo tim do u wanna smash it up sometime this week?
J Flo
Smash Journeyman
If I recall correctly, Giza mentioned he'd be able to bring a PS2, but confirmation would be good. It might be hard for us (as well as NwordTim) to fit in some 3S action if the UCSD/Harmony crew battle or a crew tourney in general will go down.
Team Giza
Smash Lord
Serious competitiveness is fun. I never said there was no other tactics that are making the smash community grow, you are putting words in my mouth now. You must of gotten that confused when I said that I felt Marth and IC were the best way to approach anti-grab strategies for me because of there fear tactics, but of coarse eventually you have to isolate every character. I just think its limiting the community. Yes, the wobbles makes the IC better, and easier to play as. But it also adds a new level of play to an IC match. I would like to see more diversity at tournaments instead of; Fox, Falco, Marth, Peach, Shiek. Luckily Taj will be there this time so we may see some delicious Mewtwo action. But if you really think that this difference in the game is gonna make the tournament run more smoothly with only maybe one or two ICs around then whatever I suppose. I'm just a bit shocked cause it kinda came out of nowhere. I never heard any wobbling upset in our community, never anything negetive said on this topic, nothing discussed that everyone could see and then just BAM BODYSLAM no more wobbling. It was very unexpected and caught me quite by suprise. Also the fun level is one of the things I am worried about, Wobbling greatly rose the fun level for me.Giza, Between your last few posts on this thread, and the 2+ hour AIM conversation we had last night that at times bordered on Goldenmuffin-levels of absurdity, you seem like a totally different person
DARN STRAIGHT!
It depends on if I decide to go. I am really disappointed about the decision that UCLA monthly and our triweeklies made about Wobbling that I feel I might be a bit rude there. So I'm not confirming nothing right now. I dont think NwordTim is coming because of different issues. JFK will not be coming due to conflicts in positioning. I may be 3S so you can all laugh at my horrid Hugo or VF4:E which I just started playing yesterday if I do go. But even if I do go I might not be able to bring this stuff cause of a TV situtation I have. The tv I usually bring to every triweekly is now broken, and Im not sure if I would be allowed to bring any other tv in my house. I also have a ps2 situtation that will probably result in me not bring in the one in my home. So if somehow everything ends up working out I'll try, I'll confirm stuff tomorrow probably. Don't get your hopes up though.
AzN_Lep
Smash Champion
Wobbles himself is a prime example of this. No offense to Rob or anything, because he's an outstanding player (2nd best IC imo) But do you honestly think that he'd be where he is today without Wobbling? For that reason alone it was named after him. Take his matches with Edrees for instance. Every time Edrees played Wobbles and wobbling was banned, Edrees won. Everytime they played when it wasn't banned Wobbles won. Like I said, with no offense to Rob or anything, but wobbling gets him much farther in tournaments (EGL Souf anyone?) than he would without it. Not to blame for using it though, he'd be dumb not to use it if it isn't banned. However, his matches and placings with wobbling are much better than without, to the extent where people can make an argument that it should be banned. Although it's not a game breaker yet, it is inrefutably a "sign" of game breaking, thus the tri weekly staff is simply taking precautions.Team Giza said:
On another note, I kinda like Nightblades idea. One tournament where Wobbling is encouraged sounds like fun, well for me atleast.
Team Giza
Smash Lord
But thats like the same arguement as seen in "Would Ken have beaten Bombsoldier without chainthrowing?"
romeo619
Smash Ace
pats fine without wobbling anyways i think.
unless SD learned to DI.
unless SD learned to DI.
Nightblade
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2006
- Messages
- 260
TheBOSS
Smash Lord
the way i see it, is that giza, your just being stubborn and ridiculous. your trying to argue with almost everyone. your not a spartan, your words wont even put up a fight. if you want wobbling to be in tournaments, then start hosting your own; because within a few months, i can predict that wobbling will be banned almost everywhere, as it should be. don't get all butthurt about banning wobbling, azn_lep is right, this doesn't affect u. the rules are set, deal with it and have a good time, or complain and don't attend.
LHG
Smash Journeyman
I think we need compromise?
Sounds doable. I think it's all trial and error at this point with everyone's sides taken.
I guarantee you wobbling won't be universally banned, Boss.
SexyDoodles
Smash Journeyman
THIS
IS
SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa
*ahem* anyway, people should calm down. this is what rickety and edrees decided, end of story. if you're bothered about some rule(that BARELY even affects you) then you don't have to attend if you don't want to. i'd still go even if Link's upB was banned(which it should be, because 'it's so cheap', right zack? >_o). the people are fun to be around.
...
I MEAN COME ON DTHROW TO UPB, IT'S TOO GOOD
Team Giza
Smash Lord
No I'm not. Nobody is.
Who was winning? Not Azn_lep. It affects me. Just as chainthrowing affects me. Just how Edreese's downsmashing affects me. Just how my ego affects me. Just how JFK's ***** fingers shine everywhere and his 0 to death combos affects me. Its all relative. I know its not that big of deal, but it was never that big of deal to ban it. Discord. I don't think this crap will spread. EVO SAVE US I hope this doesnt spread. It affects me greatly. I put 40+ hours into wobble stuff, so yes I think this affects me.
Motherflipping shyguy DI out of that. This does affect me.
IMO you're hurting SoCal by banning the Wobbles. It's not banned on a national level, and it never will be. So you're only hurting our players by denying them experience against the tactic. What happens when some of our guys travel out of state and go against a heavy wobbler? They won't have enough experience to know how to get around it. Forward has a ton of knowledge on how to beat a wobbler... do you think he learned that fight by going to tournaments where it was banned?
The Smash Back Room is nowhere near agreeing on a Wobbles ban and it never will. What are the odds the ban will catch on if the only group with national tournament influence can't agree to institute a ban?
The Smash Back Room is nowhere near agreeing on a Wobbles ban and it never will. What are the odds the ban will catch on if the only group with national tournament influence can't agree to institute a ban?
Team Giza
Smash Lord
Tony stop yo sliver slander. Real mature guys. This is the exact reason why other fighting communities think we are immature.
We are weakening the community trying to seperate ourselves.
Rickety
Peace and Love
I love The BOSS! <3
Edrees
Azn Lep
Rickety <3
Boss
Bone
Jon and Romeo
These people that do travel already don't mind wobbling, or already have extensive practice against Azn Lep, so they already can get around it anyway. Besides, I know if I had to fight Wobbles, I know his Mario and Pikachu could demolish me anyway, he doesn't need to wobble to beat poor old Rickety!
Yes, in the long run, I feel like it will make the community stronger, but I don't know if San Diego is ready to risk losing a lot of the fun solely for getting better.
Just my two shiny pennies <3
P.S. The following are too cute:
Edrees
Edrees's Abs
Nicky<3
Team Jackpot
Tp Fox and the great Zack 353
Jon
Romeo
Bone
Will
Tony's Eyebrows.
Edit:
Why wasn't this such a big deal in the UCLA thread?
:]
Edit 2:
I wasted my 400th post arguing about Wobbling. Not cute :-P
This is very true; however, the majority of San Diego wants to have fun and play Wobble-free, and most San Diego players don't even travel, so they won't be affected too much by it. Most San Diego players aren't training for a big large-scale tournament, or preparing for anything like that. Those who do travel the most are:
Edrees
Azn Lep
Rickety <3
Boss
Bone
Jon and Romeo
These people that do travel already don't mind wobbling, or already have extensive practice against Azn Lep, so they already can get around it anyway. Besides, I know if I had to fight Wobbles, I know his Mario and Pikachu could demolish me anyway, he doesn't need to wobble to beat poor old Rickety!
Yes, in the long run, I feel like it will make the community stronger, but I don't know if San Diego is ready to risk losing a lot of the fun solely for getting better.
Just my two shiny pennies <3
P.S. The following are too cute:
Edrees
Edrees's Abs
Nicky<3
Team Jackpot
Tp Fox and the great Zack 353
Jon
Romeo
Bone
Will
Tony's Eyebrows.
Edit:
Why wasn't this such a big deal in the UCLA thread?
:]
Edit 2:
I wasted my 400th post arguing about Wobbling. Not cute :-P
Team Giza
Smash Lord
I mean I can understand banning wobbling if its some soft of smashfest. You know a soft-ban. But dont hard ban it. Wobbling has never stopped us from having fun in the past? Never. This isnt a smashfest though. This is a triweekly tournament.
Speaking of Goldenmuffin. Wobbling made him a better player from what I can see. And I see the picture.
Speaking of Goldenmuffin. Wobbling made him a better player from what I can see. And I see the picture.
Shmooguy
Smash Champion
I have to agree with Giza. Neal makes the best point in that socal is gonna be at a disadvantage if we ban wobbles from our tournaments, but also the fact that there are ways around it makes it okay. Sure it sucks, but so does getting shinespiked at 0%. If you're good you can get around these things.