Samus's Rivals...Who gets the SSBB spot?

[KidHellion]

Fair enough, but there are times when something is OBVIOUSLY based around an over-used concept, and UNDENIABLY generic. Enter Dark Samus.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

And then the speech was given. Look at this from my point-of-view. If Dark Samus was in Brawl she would be the very first cliche character which is completely original! But more importantly, when you play Smash stories are not involved. Who gives a d*** what the character's background is? You just want to use that character is all. I doubt you recognized Ness, IC, or Marth but you used them and enjoyed them nonetheless.

 

[Red Exodus]

Trying to be original is cliche too, I've seen it in many games' stories. Sometimes they just fall flat on their faces. The best works of art are combinations of cliches and originalities.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Who gives a d*** what the character's background is?

*raises hand*

 

[KidHellion]

I'm with dotdotdot! on this one (obviously enough). Also, I only liked Ness in 64 (and I recognized him), I didn't give a crap about the Ice Climbers except for their original style of gameplay (which didn't really work too great,a s your partner was always so freakin' stupid), and I just plain don't like Marth. It's not how "cheap" he is (me and my friends were always better with Roy), I just think he's a pathetic girly-man wearing a tiara. Not to mention while Roy's element was fire, Marth's element appeared to be "blue". WTF is that all about?

But back to Dark Samus. Still not convinced she's Brawl-worthy. If she's still kicking after Corruption, maybe they can include her in Smash Bros. 4, when there's more character slots and she's had some time to make herself more interesting and unique.

 

[oxyborb]

Dark Samus. Nonono. We have 2 versions of Samus already, we don't need the bland antisamus. Ridley or nothing. My guess is that they were going to include Ridley in melee, but cut him for time. Which is why i think he was in the opening movie. Plus they're working more with air combat this time, and he'd be another good flyer.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Ah screw this. I have given out all of my points in the most detailed way possible and yet you guys still find crap to complain about. This is almost like that time when I was arguing for Diddy's inclusion because the person arguing didn't like and I quote "monkeys" and that was like trying to convince a wall. What do you do when you talk to a wall? Walk away. Instead of enjoying myself talking about the character and what it can do in Brawl I have to be ready with an argument which requires more thinking on my part then I should have to so screw this entire thread. Good bye.

 

[Rash]

Ridley should be in the game. He should also have the ability to fly however long he wants to. Even if that is some sort of "uber-recovery" move, it won't matter if he's getting pummeled to death by trying too hard to use it so often.

 

[shadenexus18]

Uh...it could happen Rash. However, you've got to admit that Ridley's attribute of infinite flight would be extremely cheap.

I have a question: If DS were to make it in Brawl, what on Earth would her alternate costumes look like?

 

[Stryks]

Dark samus could have her MP2 look or her MP3 look, and fr the colors easy, all his blue color skin turns red, green, black... kinda like mewtwo in melee, or kirby...

 

[KidHellion]

Bye, Kenny! Nevermind teh fact that this tread was about which one of Samus's rivals would get the brawl spot (just look at the title). I'm sorry for ruining your completely unrelated dream of discussing what Dark Samus would be like in the game. Here's an idea- make a DARK SAMUS thread or, alternatively, post some ideas about what she'd be like accompanying one of your agruments. Anyway, now that I have destroyed my opponents through sheer awesomeness...

I guess I could post my TeamHijack Forum Ridley Movelist.

Ridley:
(I'm using Meta-Ridley for this, but I'm using his original name. Like in Corruption.)

B: Hold B to charge a laser-beam-type firebreath, release to fire. Decent power fully charged, but not Samus-charge-shot strong.
B Smash: A charging attack with three claw swipes, all very strong (but not too overpowered). The attack has to use all three swipes, though, and can't be stopped once started, leaving Ridley vulnerable.
B Down: Terrifying, eardrum-splitting shriek that paralyzes anyone close enough to him for a very short time, much in the style of Jigglypuff's Sing. But more badass.
B Up: Three missiles fired out of his chest, diagonally and upwards, and then arcing down. They home in like Samus's missiles, are 1/3 or 1/4 the power individually, and are a bit more accurate, but slower.

Throw in 4-5 jumps due to his wings, some nice 'n powerful A moves, and make him slow to balance him out. Marvellous.

Super Smash Attack: The dude just goes berserk and unleashes his whole arsenal, complete with Godzilla-style atomic death ray from his mouth.

 

[SLIM]

I think that the final boss in Metroid Prime should be in Brawl.
Maybe a Master Hand style boss

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

@ KidHellion, I was ON TOPIC unless DS doesn't count as a villian anymore. And I didn't lose the debate I simply gave it up since nobody seems to give a d*** about the several points I made against arguments like "too cliche". Feel free to bask in false victory while you talk behind my back because I don't care anymore.

 

[KidHellion]

@Uncle Kenny: ...How exactly is it behind your back if I direct at you personally, and you come back to read it? Also, I never said you were off topic- that's what YOU seemed to be saying about ME.

"Instead of enjoying myself talking about the character and what it can do in Brawl I have to be ready with an argument"

This is a thread about WHICH rival would get in, not "what the various rivals would be like if they all got in". It seems like a thread with a theme like this one's might just lend itself to debate.

Oh, and I adressed your points. False victory or not, I'm definately enjoying it.

@everyone else: WHEN Ridley gets in, I'm betting he'll have that Phazon/metal colouring he does in the Corruption trailer. I guess they could just recolour that to red and green for teams (it's normally blue) and have it not appear at all for a Phazon-less Meta Ridley a la MP1. And i guess they could colour him dark grey and purple for classic appearances.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Your cockiness sickens me. Lay out your points again.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Trying to be original is cliche too

No it's not. It's pretentious. There's a difference.

 

[Devastlian]

This is a thread about WHICH rival would get in, not "what the various rivals would be like if they all got in". It seems like a thread with a theme like this one's might just lend itself to debate.

I believe he was proving that the character would fit and is doable, thus justifying their spot in SSBB.

Also, I don't really like Dark Samus so I'm gonna have to say that it is unlikely that she'll appear in SSBB.

 

[KidHellion]

Your cockiness sickens me. Lay out your points again.

Gee, for someone who's done with this whole thread, you sure do seem to come back a lot. And no, I'm not going to outline them AGAIN. I already HAD a big "here are all my points, numbered and organized" post. Remember? You countered them, I argued that you were missing the point or something?

If you want to review my arguments, just go find where I first entered this thread and skim through. Or you could just start talking about why DS deserves a spot in Brawl, and I'll use them again to point out why I think you're wrong.

@Devastlian: I know, but now he's complaining about me disagreeing with him and saying that debating opinions is getting in the way of him talking about Dark Samus. Or something.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Also, I don't really like Dark Samus so I'm gonna have to say that it is unlikely that she'll appear in SSBB.

Best argument ever. "I don't like "X character" so they can't get in. Bravo.

@KidHellion: You are right, I have no business being here. After this post I am gone. And I mean it this time. So let's see:

Too cliche: Nintendo's storylines are completely cliche; Mario saves the princess, Samus finds her lost technology, etc. But you play them nonetheless. Why? Because the game itself was great. I am stressing that the character itself is great.

But the cliche character can't get in Brawl: Says who? Sakurai never made that rule. Besides, we have Metaknight and he IS the same species as Kirby and he looks similiar. They have just as many differences as DS and Samus.

But they play differently: So do DS and Samus. DS can freeze others with Phazon, turn invisible, use a speader cannon, dive attack, put up barriers, float, walks differently (floats), uses the morph ball differently, etc. They definitely have a lot of differences. Don't like her look? Then they can use the final version of DS in Brawl. The skeleton one.

But I don't like her name: Call her Metroid Prime then.

They can't do that: They did it for Young Link.

I still don't like her: Then use her as a sandbag when Brawl comes out. Everyone wins.

But I want Ridley in: They can both be in.

Don't agree? Don't care. Want to claim victory since I won't defend my points? Don't care. Do you care? Don't care.

 

[KidHellion]

@Uncle Kenny (who's apparently gone, but whatever): PLEASE quit twisting my words. I've gone out of my way to say that DS could totally be in Brawl, I just don't WANT her in and don't think she's Smash-worthy. ANYONE could be in Brawl with a little effort on the programmers' part. I also never said you had no buisness being here. I'm merely amused that you keep saying "I'm leaving and never coming back!" and then coming back a few minutes later. Over and over.

Now I'll adress the rest of your argument AGAIN.

1. I play Nintendo games, cliche as some of them are, for good gameplay. SSBB will ahve good gameplay, DS or no DS, but I'd rather they included a different caharcter in her spot. This is because, while Nintendo games have some many original aspect fleshing out their storylines (travel through pipes, fighting giant fire-breathing turtles, exterminating bizarre energy-draining creatures and space pirates led by a cocnstantly-ressurected space dragon/pterodactyl thing), I see nothing that makes Dark Samus better than any other run of the mill "evil twin". She's cool, just not particularily interesting or original, nor influential enough as a villain to warrant inclusion.

2. Your Metaknight argument is weak. It's liek saying "Mario is human, and Link is human, and they both share human caharcteristics, and they're both in, so DS and Samus can be in despite looking almost exactly like colour swaps of each other." MetaKnight looks quite a bit different than Kirby. he's blue, has armour, has actual hands, and has wings sometimes. He also uses a different form of attack than Kirby in Smash- Kirby absorbs attacks, changes forms, etc. while Metaknight relies solely on sword-fighting. Kirby and Meta Knight have extra jumps, but Meta-Knight can glide.

3. I never even said that Samus/Dark Samus couldn't play differently. I think they would, but they wouldn't necessarily. The fact is, they're unlikely to include something where she wanders around all invisible, as it wouldn't serve any real purpose a cloaking device wouldn't. And, while she uses morph balls and the arm cannon differently (or could, anyway), those are still variations on moves Samus uses in the game.

4. That said, the skeletal look and the name "Metroid Prime" would improve my outlook on her, if only slightly.

5. I still don't really agree with the inclusion of Young Link. I'm not saying they couldn't include DS based on this reasoning, but I don't see why we should repeat errors like this.

6. Yes, it'd provide me a character to hit. So would Tingle (and I hate him much more). Why don't I want either in? Because those slots could still be used for characters that DO deserve a spot in Brawl.

7. They could both be in, but I find it a bit doubtful. Even if they COULD both be in, she'd still be occupying a slot some other cjaracter from another franchise (likely a better, more interesting, more original character) could occupy.

8. You appear to be defending your points, actually, but if you're actually leaving this time then sure, I'll accept a victory. Your indifferent dissolutionment is greatly appreciated.

 

[Red Exodus]

This thread is changed a lot, first it was a mello atmosphere for Metroid fan[boy]s but now it's all debatey [lol].

How about we just stop caring about who doesn't like who and just talk about who we like?

Personally, I can see Ridley having awesome grabs and using his tail in some unorthodox ways.

And I can see DS having quite a few charge [up] moves and probably being a lot more agressive than other characters are.

 

[MiraiGen]

I more or less left this topic a while ago - even after I handed HiddenTiger a platefull of his own *** with all the trimmings, there is still nothing but "Dark Samus sucks/is going to be a clone" being battered around as though they're the only reasons she's not getting in.

Which makes me laugh considering the Hunters rivals were originally being questioned in validity for Brawl.

 

[Rhyme]

Once again, Stryks, let me expalin.

Ganon=Influential Zelda villain, appearing in many games before Melee. Giant anthromorphic pig.
Ganondorf= The more popular, current form of Ganon, seen as a human until he gets really pissed off and steals the Triforce or something. Put in to represent Ganon in general.

Much as:

Link=The name of several characters, all main characters, most of whom were young boys.
TP Link=The hero of one game thus far (Twilight Princess) appearing as a fully-grown man. Put in to represent Link in general.

Now, TP Link represents all Links, and Ganondorf represents Ganon in general. Both are shown in what was currently their most current, popular form. Do you understand? Thus TP Link represents decades of Link, and Ganondorf represented decades of Ganon. Sure, they could have included Link as a young boy and ignored the more recent adult version, and they could have ignored ganon's new human form and just resized the pig form. But they didn't, because they wanted their most recent incarnations.

Now, you can't make this argument for Dark Samus/Metroid prime. Even if you include both forms of the creature, it has still only appeared in 2 games, with a third coming up. And the fact is, whatever it's true origins, it's still named after Samus, it still looks liek Samus, it still sues an arm cannon as its main means of attack, and it's still not very influential. Sure, they could include it, but then you would have Samus, Zero Suit samus AND Dark Samus. Separate entity or not, it's still way too similar to the real deal, and not a very important character even factoring in its Metroid Prime form.

Ridley, however, appears often, is much cooler and more original, and kicks ***. We don't need a bunch of doppelgangers in Brawl.

EDIT: The Hunters, now they only have one appearance under ANY guidelines.

Ok...you have thoroughly confused me

You express the importance of representing the current, most popular hero/villain, then support Ridley. Have you forgotten that Dark Samus is more recent? Dark Samus/Metroid Prime has dictated the actions of Samus for the last 3 instalments in the series, so DS is deffinately influential. Dark Samus was named after Samus because she is a form of Samus. Barbaric and mutated, but nonetheless Samus. Naming her anything else would be stupid so don't use her name as your argument.

By the way, I was only gone for a few days, I came back and looked through 8 pages and still can't find my last post. Could some friendly, selfless individual fill me in about what is going on in this thread?

 

[dotdotdot!]

Ok...you have thoroughly confused me

You express the importance of representing the current, most popular hero/villain, then support Ridley. Have you forgotten that Dark Samus is more recent? Dark Samus/Metroid Prime has dictated the actions of Samus for the last 3 instalments in the series, so DS is deffinately influential. Dark Samus was named after Samus because she is a form of Samus. Barbaric and mutated, but nonetheless Samus. Naming her anything else would be stupid so don't use her name as your argument.

By the way, I was only gone for a few days, I came back and looked through 8 pages and still can't find my last post. Could some friendly, selfless individual fill me in about what is going on in this thread?

Same as it's ever been.

"We want Dark Samus"
"Well we don't"
"Well screw you"
"Screw you too"

Except we all seem to basically be in agreement that Ridley is an awesome idea and the Hunters are not.

I should just stop coming to this topic.

 

[Rhyme]

Same as it's ever been.

"We want Dark Samus"
"Well we don't"
"Well screw you"
"Screw you too"

Except we all seem to basically be in agreement that Ridley is an awesome idea and the Hunters are not.

I should just stop coming to this topic.

I was considering that. Although listening to people ramble on about there sometimes biassed points can be ammusing, this thread is getting old. One can only take so much arguing about Dark Samus and Ridley for one lifetime. Either way, it seems that several people have come to this topic to support both sides, maybe the seniors should kick it for a spell.



EDIT:

And I can see DS having quite a few charge [up] moves and probably being a lot more agressive than other characters are.

Ouch, sounds painful. A cross between Falcon's speed and Falco's agression, better we not go there. Not broken because a well placed shieldgrab would destroy DS(we proved this with Marth v Falcon), but tough to work around.

 

[Sensai]

Sensai makes a triumphant return to the topic, hoping to save it from the utterly pointless arguements and instead concentrating on what a character would be like IF they got in!

I think Ridley's tail would be neat, so long as it doesn't end up screwing him like it does for Mewtwo.

And to everyone: I don't think it's fair to use MP3 as an installment in the game. Not yet; it's not out yet. After it comes out, feel free to use it, but for now...it's not there.

 

[Rhyme]

Sensai makes a triumphant return to the topic, hoping to save it from the utterly pointless arguements and instead concentrating on what a character would be like IF they got in!

I think Ridley's tail would be neat, so long as it doesn't end up screwing him like it does for Mewtwo.

And to everyone: I don't think it's fair to use MP3 as an installment in the game. Not yet; it's not out yet. After it comes out, feel free to use it, but for now...it's not there.

Good point.

What makes you say that? IMO his tail was a great idea and provided good moves.

This one was put here to screw with me. No pun intended.

If we stop counting MP3 as an instalment, we loose arguments bassed on DS' importance to the trilogy. Plus, everyone will complain about how DS now has even less influence over the Metroid Universe, even though we know she influences the storyline, possibly very strongly influences.

 

[kaid]

Sensai makes a triumphant return to the topic, hoping to save it from the utterly pointless arguements and instead concentrating on what a character would be like IF they got in!

I think Ridley's tail would be neat, so long as it doesn't end up screwing him like it does for Mewtwo.

And to everyone: I don't think it's fair to use MP3 as an installment in the game. Not yet; it's not out yet. After it comes out, feel free to use it, but for now...it's not there.

As a Mewtwo main, I find his tail moves to be universally useful. It's his specials and his lack of weight that is the problem.

 

[Stryks]

Good point.

What makes you say that? IMO his tail was a great idea and provided good moves.

This one was put here to screw with me. No pun intended.

If we stop counting MP3 as an instalment, we loose arguments bassed on DS' importance to the trilogy. Plus, everyone will complain about how DS now has even less influence over the Metroid Universe, even though we know she influences the storyline, possibly very strongly influences.

Like she said, the MP3 helps, not only the DS fans, but the ridley fans as well, not to mention the hunters, which new, and possibly old, will make an apperance in MP3...

And ridleys tail is awesome, and could become very useful in brawl...

 

[Bobby Emerald]

Ridley/Meta Ridley and Dark Samus (with her own unique moveset of course!)

 

[Red Exodus]

Wait a tick, was DS is MP1? If so I'm screwed, I bought MP2 because I couldn't find 1...

 

[shadenexus18]

Wait a tick, was DS is MP1? If so I'm screwed, I bought MP2 because I couldn't find 1...

The last boss on MP1 was Metroid Prime. Once Samus destroyed Metroid Prime, MP takes Samus's Phazon suit & it looks as if she has bit the dust. However, Dark Samus is Metroid Prime "reborn" so to speak.

 

[Sensai]

counting MP3 as an instalment, we loose arguments...

Lose. For the love of God, lose. It's not loose. That's like something being not tight. Once again: Lose.

(sorry, pet peeve)

And you know you wanted that pun to be intended Rhyme. You're gross. And yes, it was aimed at you, but just because your post was the last one I saw mentioning DS as being influential in three stories. You can't just include evidence because it works for you...that's not all that fair. Sure, she's going to be part of the 3rd one, but solely on the (very VERY small) chance that MP3 comes out after Brawl, it cannot be used in arguement.

What I meant about the tail was not that the moves are bad (they're the only ones that are any good, besides his Nair, IMO). What I meant was that you can damage him by attacking the tail...something I don't want to see happen to Ridley.

My birthday's tomorrow. :-D

 

[Rhyme]

Lose. For the love of God, lose. It's not loose. That's like something being not tight. Once again: Lose.

(sorry, pet peeve)

And you know you wanted that pun to be intended Rhyme. You're gross. And yes, it was aimed at you, but just because your post was the last one I saw mentioning DS as being influential in three stories. You can't just include evidence because it works for you...that's not all that fair. Sure, she's going to be part of the 3rd one, but solely on the (very VERY small) chance that MP3 comes out after Brawl, it cannot be used in arguement.

What I meant about the tail was not that the moves are bad (they're the only ones that are any good, besides his Nair, IMO). What I meant was that you can damage him by attacking the tail...something I don't want to see happen to Ridley.

My birthday's tomorrow. :-D

Congradulations on the B-Day. I can't even be funny anymore without being crushed, dammit. You shouldn't say G*d.

I didn't think Mewtwo's tail contained any hitboxes of the character, in much the same way Yoshi's nose has no hitboxes. I guess the tail is a much larger appendage than a nose, on average, and therefore deserves hitboxes.

As for the evidence, we know it so why shouldn't it count? Whether or not we allow MP3 to count, it will be advantageous to some party.

 

[Sensai]

You can't count it because it hasn't happened yet. I can guarentee you that Link will be in every Zelda game ever created...it doesn't mean I can use information 'bout how big the Zelda franchise will be when those games come out.

 

[Stryks]

But consider that (quite probably, being an ex-launch title) it will be released b4 brawl, and thus, can be consiered, u cant consider any other zelda games, cause the only one that we know will be released b4 brawl (possibly) is the phantom hourglass game for DS...

 

[shadenexus18]

Pft, I can't stand cell-shaded graphic for Wind Waker or Phantom Hourglass...

Well anyway, as for Metroid Prime 3 Corruption, I believe that Rhyme can include it into her argument just due to the fact that the game is comin out soon.

 

[Stryks]

yep quite possibly (incredibly sure) b4 brawl, thus she can consider it in her aguement, besides Dark samus kick major ***...

 

[Rhyme]

I'm sorry Sensai, but you just got majority-owned.

But yeah, that's what I had always thought. 95% of me says MP3 comes out before Brawl, and everyone I try talking to seems convinced that Brawl is coming out Q3 the earliest, so why is it so unacceptable to conclude that MP3 releases before Brawl? <-Smashboards 101: A Rhetorical Question is one asked solely to produce an effect or make an assertion rather than to elicit a reply.

 

[Stryks]

Yeah, like I said, MP3 was a launch title, but they decided not to make it a launch so they can fix/add some stuff to the game, and make it perfect, like multiplayer, which they mentioned they wont include but now are reconsidering (if u can use other hunters like in mp:H on MP3, it would be SICK), sensai consider it was a launch title, I doubt the game will be released after smash, I say it wil lbe released on the 2nd quarter of the year, or the beggining of 3rd quarter, which I doubt, haha sorry sensai face facts XD...