Samus's Rivals...Who gets the SSBB spot?

[shadenexus18]

Ok so I can finally let this go:

Ridley chances: Very high
Dark samus: High (to make things clear: HE AINT SAMUS! Hes metroid prime!!)
A hunter (from MPH): not as high as ridley or DS, but thatnx to the succes of the game, they have a shot...
a hunter (from MP3): dont know yet, but Rundus, a ice using hunter, may have a shot, since mostly other smash candidates from the metroid series are mostly villans, havin another hero from the series may work...

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Whoa bro! Where did your Cloud Strife avatar go? It was like so mad chill son.

 

[KidHellion]

Let me make this clear:

I. Know. Dark. Samus. Is. Not. Samus.

I've mentioned this is pretty much every post. Dark Samus IS, however, the typical "evil twin cliche". NOT SAMUS ARAN. I understand. I never DIDN'T understand. I played part of MP2.

But Dark Samus is -A- Samus. Not -THE- Samus, but -A- Samus. A -DARK- Samus, as a matter of fact. Made out of a metroid and phazon energy to RESEMBLE Samus Aran's armour. It is also a villain/rival. As such, it is an "evil twin cliche", as in an enemy/rival that clearly resembles the main character, is similar in many aspects (appearance, means of attack, etc.) but has contrasting morality. Dark Samus, see? And this is a well-documented, unoriginal plot twist. The evil twin cliche has its own Wikipedia article and everything.

Dark Samus = Unoriginal plot twist

 

[Stryks]

U may not like DS, but believe me, MANY do... Dark Samus has become way more than just an evil samus, and using him as a color swap is just pointless, I get the thing about dark kirby, daisy and boshi, but they arent very popular, Dark samus is, the MP series made the Metroid series way more popular now, and thus so did Dark Samus, hes not just some ripoff, hes now Samus main rival, and villain durin the MP series, ridley obcourse deserves the hsot more than DS, being far more popular and being in more games, dont get me wrong, but so did dark samus, another thing is daisay that is just some other princess, another thing boshi, being an evil yoshi with sunglasses, but Dark samus is Metroid prime itself, using the phazon suit as a base and thus using it as a body, the guy is practically made of pure phazon, has way... WAY diferent attacks, not to mention abilities like floating, invisibility, and able to use attacks that samus herself doesnt have, its practically a fusion of metroid prime and samus phazon suit, which it is... by ur reasons then ur practically saying Wolf shoyuldnt be in brawl, cause hes just an evil fox, just a ripoff... and that just pisses me off XD... and obcourse Dark samus wont have his own series, neither did wolf, neither did ganondorf, neither did bowser... and dark samus is the main villain of the metroid PRIME series, since it will end on the next game, Dark samus should repesent, what now is, a great saga in the metroid series... while ridley, who obcourse, deserves the shot, should represent all the other metroid games as the main villain... besides sakurai said he wanted to represent metroid way mor ein brawl for the lakc of characters in both melee and 64, u think with just ridley theyre gonna represent the series? cmon we need more characters...

my gramar sucks, why u ask? im mexican XD...

 

[KidHellion]

All the people arguing for Daisy in Brawl would disgaree with you. I personally don;t want her in, but she is popular.

And, for your information, Wolf SHOULDN'T be in. I mean, personally he strikes me as just an evil Fox. I don't know enough about him to say this with any real certainty, but I don't really want him in Brawl.

Dark Samus is the main villain of 3 games. Ganondorf and Bowser are most prolific villains of their respective SERIES. There's a difference.

The fact is, I'd much rather have variety in Brawl's roster than THREE chararacters named Samus (I KNOW DS ISN'T THE SAME CHARACTER), two of which look almost exactly the same.

 

[shadenexus18]

It's weird, Dark Samus only made techincally 2 game appearances & she's the odd's on favorite. I know I can't get enough of that revamped Metroid Prime boss & anyone else would just be silly to go against her. Shortly after her game appearance, I (and I'm sure many others) began to ponder......"What if I could control that power & play as her in a Smash brothers game?"

Case in point, you don't have to give a good reason (or a reason period) of why DS should be in Brawl. It's like an Apple Jacks thing: Why do we eat it? We just do, that's why! Same thing goes for DS: Why should she get in Brawl? She's just mad chill! That's why!

 

[Stryks]

Man u dont like Wolf?... how sad...

Dark samus is the main villain of the prime series, sure the MP games are about to end, but dont u think a character from this great franchise should represented, Ridley, IMO, is practically in, but we need more characters... and u saying having 3 samus in the roster, ur practically sayin DS is either a clone or that he is samus, which neither is true, yes his name is dark samus, but what can we do about it? NOTHING... so forget about the name and chekc the facts, If midna and/or zant make it in brawl, then dark samus has a way better shot, being quite possibly way more popular and apperead in more games, and what do u tell me about shiek? sure shes zelda, but the character SHEIK (dont count him as zelda) appeared only once b4 melee, and thus there he is, I know dont use it against me becaus eI know shes zelda, but her alter ego/form/identity SHEIK was in melee, and SHEIK only appeared ONCE b4 melee, and SHEIK didnt do much but just be a secondary character (zelda is a primary, but sheik more of a secondary) and just appearing to give u some new songs... and she was in melee!! dark samus can be in there to, having a bigger role in the prime series than SHEIK (not zelda SHEIK) had in OoT...

"What if I could control that power & play as her in a Smash brothers game?"

*quoted for truth*
very true, as soon as I saw Dark Samus in MP2, I tough... woah we need him in the next smash!...

 

[shadenexus18]

I surely don't want Samus to take up 2 character slots. That's just not fair! I want her to have a Zelda/Sheik esque effect. That would allow Dark Samus to make the cut without conplaints.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

You have to realize that ZS Samus will most likely share the spot with regular Samus and practically is just Samus but they need that name to distinguish them apart. So technically they will just have 2 Samuses (name-wise anyway). Character-wise DS is her own character. Similiar looks don't matter. Were you upset that Dr. Mario had the same name? How about Y. Link? Not really? Then don't worry about it.

 

[Red Exodus]

I wish I could be as certain as you, but Sakurai said he needs to add more Metroid characters so we may see either Ridley or DS or both.

 

[KidHellion]

1. Metroid Prime is NOT a franchise. It's a PART of another series.

2. Dark Samus would not be a clone. Sakurai said tehre wouldn't be any clones. Dark Samus is also not samus Aran. I know both tehse things. Dark Samus IS still a Samus. Samus is part of its name and everything.

3. Sheik got in as a PART of Zelda. She IS the same character as Zelda, who appears often in the series, so they figured why not give her the badass ninja form? pretty straight foreward.

4. I did mention my opinion of Dr. Mario and Young Link, didn't I?

5. So you're psyched to control DS's amazing powers, eh? Powers that'll be limited to keep the characters nice and balanced? Exactly. That's not a point at all.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Let me get this straight. Your only beef with DS is the name? That is downright opinion and would not be counted in a debate. I am arguing inclusion and you are arguing taste. My point with Dr. Mario and Y. Link was that they were able to get in despite your argument that names somehow matter.

Edit: Sakurai stated that he wanted to avoid clones but he didn't rule them out.

 

[KidHellion]

NO. I'm pointing out teh name because every time I say DS is a Samus, people think I'm saying they're the same character. I just don't want generic 'evil twin cliches" in Brawl.

Also, I'm pointing out that I think Doc and Y. Link were MISTAKES. You know what we do with mistakes? We learn from them, and fix them. We don't repeat them.

We're both arguing taste. You like Dark Samus and want its inclusion, I don't really give a crap about DS, and don't want it included.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Then simply state that you wouldn't like the character included and stop arguing that the character can't be included. There is a difference between taste and debate. If you dislike that character they can still be in. I know Toad can and probably will be in despite my taste of him.

Evil villian cliches don't rule characters out unless you would like to point me to some proof of this.

 

[Red Exodus]

Being generic is a good thing sometimes, it's nice to see a variety of characters rather than just seeing one character from your favorite franchise. As I [almost] always say: The more, the merrier.

 

[Stryks]

Ok Ill put this in a way anyone can understand:

Theres only one metroid character so far (zamus counts, but its more of an alternate form), now take notice how popular metroid is now, its on the top 3 franchises of nintendo, along with zelda and mario, mario will probably have 5+ charactrs in brawl, with luigi MAY making a return, and doc being gone, that leaves mario, peach, bowser and maybe mario, the top choices in the mario franchise are bowser jr/shadow mario, kamek, daisy, geno, and others, the roster will grw when it comes to mario characters, same with zelda, with sheik probably gone, y link sure to be out, and ganondorf and zelda having (maybe zelda wont) a new moveset, that leaves link, zelda, ganondorf, and with characters like midna, zant, MM skull kid, vaati, among others, theres a chance the roster may double in brawl, now metroid being one of the top 3 franchises, deserves, after having only one metroid character in 64 and melee, to have a big roster, = that includes samus and, if u count it zamus, ridley being the most requested, im sure hes in, that makes 2-3 characters, u think that will do?... the roster has to be bigger whne it comes to metroid, so Im sure dark samus, and one or 2 hunters may be in brawl, why? cause of their popularity and the fact that sakurai wants to represent the metroid series well this time... so chances of dark samus in brawl: High... and kid hellion, what ur saying about dark samus having samus in the name is just pointless, theyre not NOT gonna ad DS for the fact that is has samus it part of his name...

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

DS is completely diverse. The same name doesn't make it generic.

Edit: The top 3 franchises of Nintendo are Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon Stryks. However, Metroid is a growing franchise.

 

[Red Exodus]

I know but sometimes it's pointless...erm...pointing out how different Samus is from DS I've done it before on this thread and it didn't work. I'll go find it just for referrance.

 

[shadenexus18]

NO. I'm pointing out teh name because every time I say DS is a Samus, people think I'm saying they're the same character. I just don't want generic 'evil twin cliches" in Brawl.

Also, I'm pointing out that I think Doc and Y. Link were MISTAKES. You know what we do with mistakes? We learn from them, and fix them. We don't repeat them.

We're both arguing taste. You like Dark Samus and want its inclusion, I don't really give a crap about DS, and don't want it included.

C'mon bro, Young Link may have be an accident, but not the Dr of thuganomics: Doctor Mario. He gave a way better in battle preformance than Mario because he had a bit more "power" than Mario. In fact (surprisingly) he's one of my mains & I consider him a top-tier. If anything, they should give Dr. Mario's moveset to Mario for Brawl cause he needs a tune-up.

As far as DS goes, everyone's entitled to there own opinion, nevertheless, DS is destined to be on Brawl. It's her birthright!

 

[Stryks]

Dr of thugonomics... god... (are u by any chace a cena fan? if u are... *loads shotgun*)

Yeha I guess pokemon is on the top 3, But IMO metroid is now in the top 3, pokemon has, again IMO, lost popularity from back in the good ol days... sure the games (some) are still good, but every metroid game is off the chart, I believe its on the top 3... well my point is, DS has, must and WILL be in brawl!...

 

[Red Exodus]

Here it is:

1) DS can fly and dash close to the ground without touching it.
2) It has a powerful energy shield.
3) It's gun has scatter shots and a freeze function [I think]
4) It's morph ball is way faster than Samus'
5) It has a reflect attack, where it hits the ground and a shield shoots up [not to be confused with her other shield, the other one is more powerful]
6) She doesn't have a grapple beam as far as I know.
7) She can shoot missiles from her shield described in [2], but can't move while firing.

There's more but I'm not certain of them, I haven't played MP2 since Jan.

I'm not against ridley or anything, I just prefer DS.

P.S. She's called Dark Samus because she never gave her [maybe his?] name. And since she's in a black phazon suit super-powered by phazon [correct me if I'm wrong], which is dangerous too Samus [and just about every other living being], yet another difference.

 

[KidHellion]

Pokemon's lost popularity here, yes, but it still sells insanely well in Japan. It should have 5-6 characters. Persoanlly, I'd impose a 7 character limit on any series, and the only Nintendo franchises that even deserve that many are mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.

Also, I never said DS COULDN'T be in. I just said it shoudln't.

 

[shadenexus18]

Dr of thugonomics... god... (are u by any chace a cena fan? if u are... *loads shotgun*)

Join the chain gang! I sorta like John Cena, but I ain't no fan boy!

You know there is a better bounty hunter that so owns Samus....

Captain Jay Douglas Falcon baby!

 

[KidHellion]

I also never implied it would be a clone. I just said its name, means of attack (as in arm cannon weapons) and appearance were all too similar to Samus, and it took away from the game's variety. Plus it was a personalityless cliche.

 

[Red Exodus]

*Reads 2 posts above*
*Copies Chris' mom from Everybody Hates Chris*

Oh no you didn't. Samus would hit CF so hard he'd lap his racing buddies, twice.

*Snaps out of it*

Samus FTW...

 

[virtualgamecafe]

u watch that 2???

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Couldn't and shouldn't are both strong words. What gives you the right to state a character shouldn't be in the game? I must have missed that you were part of Sakurai's team or something.

It has enough different moves, irregular body movements, and a personality (animalistic being in search of phazon but still intelligent) that it can be different. People look at DS without truly looking at DS and it makes me sick.

 

[shadenexus18]

*Reads 2 posts above*
*Copies Chris' mom from Everybody Hates Chris*

Oh no you didn't. Samus would hit CF so hard he'd lap his racing buddies, twice.

*Snaps out of it*

Samus FTW...

(laughs for 30 seconds) That was amusing! I just wanted to see your reaction when I said that Falcon was better than Samus just to lightin the mood.

Samus < Falcon

Oh yeah, I watch "Everybody Hates Chris" as well.

 

[KidHellion]

An 'animalistic" enemy is the most generic of all.

Also, what the hell gives YOU the right to say somebody deserves to be in? Are YOU on sakurai's team? Is anybody on this forum in Sakurai's team? No. But we're still entitled to argue our point of view. If you can argue FOR DS, I can argue against all I want, credentials be ****ed.

 

[shadenexus18]

An 'animalistic" enemy is the most generic of all.

Also, what the hell gives YOU the right to say somebody deserves to be in? Are YOU on sakurai's team? Is anybody on this forum in Sakurai's team? No. But we're still entitled to argue our point of view. If you can argue FOR DS, I can argue against all I want, credentials be ****ed.

Relax bro, take a deep breath, count to ten...slowly, breath in-breath out. Remember, this is all just speculation. There, do you feel better now?

I'm starting to think that there is a spy from Sakurai's team trying to steal our ideas. After all, we are on www.wikipedia.org.

 

[KidHellion]

I'm perfectly calm. I'm not jumping around my computer freaking out or anything. i, for one, try not to get excitable about the internet.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I am arguing in favor of DS because I believe she has the possibility of being in. You are arguing against her simply because you hate her. Your arguments are slowly degenerating into nothing more then flaming.

The animalistic statement was used to descibe personality not actual character though I suppose she does count as somewhat of an animal but in a wierd space animal fusion kind of way.

 

[Bolshoi]

I haven't played any of the Metroid Primes, but....How would Dark Samus not be a Samus clone?

It even says in her description, "Matches Samus at the height of her abilities." Not saying there's anything directly wrong with clones, but I thought Sakurai was less than a fan of clones...and there's something directly wrong with clones >.>

 

[Stryks]

dark samus attacks and abilities:
Phazon beam
phazon spreader
faster boost ball
phazon shield
meteor dive attack
can turn invisible
with one charge can shoot 2 super phazon beams
phazon ice beam
More powerful missile

attacks he doesnt have:
screw attack
graple beam
seeker missile

make the math... possibilities of being a clone= small...

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

1) DS can fly and dash close to the ground without touching it.
2) It has a powerful energy shield.
3) It's gun has scatter shots and a freeze function [I think]
4) It's morph ball is way faster than Samus'
5) It has a reflect attack, where it hits the ground and a shield shoots up [not to be confused with her other shield, the other one is more powerful]
6) She doesn't have a grapple beam as far as I know.
7) She can shoot missiles from her shield described in [2], but can't move while firing.

There's more but I'm not certain of them, I haven't played MP2 since Jan.

I'm not against ridley or anything, I just prefer DS.

P.S. She's called Dark Samus because she never gave her [maybe his?] name. And since she's in a black phazon suit super-powered by phazon [correct me if I'm wrong], which is dangerous too Samus [and just about every other living being], yet another difference.

So yeah...

 

[Bolshoi]

Ah...Ok, that works. As you were.

 

[Stryks]

Spread the word to everyone that says DS will be a samus clone, im tired to mention the facts over and over... when DS is in brawl, and after seeing his not-samus-clone moveset I will laugh at everyone that said the opposite...

 

[Bolshoi]

I'll be sure to correct everyone I see claiming such. But ignorance is a hefty foe to best.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

Join the chain gang! I sorta like John Cena, but I ain't no fan boy!

You know there is a better bounty hunter that so owns Samus....

Captain Jay Douglas Falcon baby!

Awesome post dude.

 

[Sensai]

And The Oracle games, Majora's Mask, and Minnish Cap. Chances are he won't be in the Phantom Hourglass either. SO even counting the oracle games as 1, and disregarding the Phantom Hourglass because it's still speculative, that's 5 Zelda games that Ganon(dorf) did not feature in.

I'm going to edit this in a second, as I'm going to do some research.

[Edit:]Ha! I knew that he was in the Oracle games. As said by the all-mighty Wiki:

Ganon was the hidden final boss of Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons in the linked game

But the others are all gravy, unless you count the fact that Vaati is in the Minish Cap (and then you could argue that he was attempting to ressurect Ganon, etc). So, 4 games that he was not in. Of the 12 completely original games.

2. Dark Samus would not be a clone. Sakurai said tehre wouldn't be any clones

This just isn't true. Sorry, but he never said that.

If anything, they should give Dr. Mario's moveset to Mario for Brawl cause he needs a tune-up.

You're joking, right? They have the same moves. The only reason he was included was so that they could put that song in there (that's kinda a joke, but with some amount of truth to it).

Pokemon's lost popularity here, yes, but it still sells insanely well in Japan. It should have 5-6 characters. Persoanlly, I'd impose a 7 character limit on any series, and the only Nintendo franchises that even deserve that many are mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.

You're right; Pokemon has been going down in popularity. Until recently...it seems like the series is beginning to pick up again, but I have no idea why. Just stating a fact.

Couldn't and shouldn't are both strong words. What gives you the right to state a character shouldn't be in the game?

It's called an opinion.

I haven't played any of the Metroid Primes, but....How would Dark Samus not be a Samus clone?

Shh....don't talk. That sentence puts you down so badly to begin with. Please, just don't even.

 

[KidHellion]

How am I flaming, exactly? And who said I hate DS? I have no real opinion on it as a character, I just hate the idea of it IN BRAWL. I have actually stated several reasons for this, and none of them have been "well i just dont liek DS and thats taht ok??!!!?".

You are arguing for her because you believe she'd be a good addition. My opinions are exactly the opposite, but I've stated them concisely and without personal attacks. How, then am I flaming?

Oh yeah, I forgot. I don't agree with you. I'm such a troll.

here, I'm summing up my arguements, one last time:

1. Dark Samus has essentially no personality aside from hating Samus and loving the great taste of phazon (a healthy part of you balanced breakfast!). Also, it's "animalistic" but intelligente nough to use an elevator. Not very compelling.

2. Dark Samus is so generic that it could be the poster...thing for the ever-popular evil twin cliche. It's a duplicate of the main character made by a villain (its previous incarnation, Metroid Prime) that hates the main character and has contrasting morality.

3. Dark Samus has only appeared in 2 games thus far, 3 counting the yet-to-be-released Corruption, and isn't very influential to the series.

4. Dark Samus looks almost exactly like Samus Aran, uses the same kind of weapon to attack, in named after Samus Aran, and is completely based on Samus Aran's armour. having two characters this similar in separate slots takes away from the diversity of Brawl, much as Pichu/Pikachu, Dr. Mario/Mario, and Young Link/Link did for Melee. I'd much rather not have generic duplicates like this, even if (as many people have mentioned) Dark Samus wouldn't necessarily be a clone. It is still too similar for my tastes. I think its slot would be better served playing host to just about anything else (except the Hunters, even more generic evil twins, ridiculous suggestions, etc.

Boom shacka. Arguments, well phrased, summed up, and in your face. feel free to state counter-opinions, but don't just hide behind your "straw man" arguments and your falcified charges of "flaming".