Samus's Rivals...Who gets the SSBB spot?

[Lord_Deathborne]

Wow... I can't believe the Dark Samus argument is still raging on here... Doesn't this belong in- oh, I don't know... maybe the Dark Samus thread? Oh well... I'm still banking on a Hunter getting in before DS, but only AFTER Ridley.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

How am I flaming, exactly? And who said I hate DS? I have no real opinion on it as a character, I just hate the idea of it IN BRAWL. I have actually stated several reasons for this, and none of them have been "well i just dont liek DS and thats taht ok??!!!?".

You are arguing for her because you believe she'd be a good addition. My opinions are exactly the opposite, but I've stated them concisely and without personal attacks. How, then am I flaming?

Oh yeah, I forgot. I don't agree with you. I'm such a troll.

here, I'm summing up my arguements, one last time:

I don't care if you don't agree with me, whatever. But to not agree and then state arguments as if they are correct when you know they are not correct is just being repetitive and obviously stubborn.

1. Dark Samus has essentially no personality aside from hating Samus and loving the great taste of phazon (a healthy part of you balanced breakfast!). Also, it's "animalistic" but intelligente nough to use an elevator. Not very compelling.

And the IC are just full of personality.

2. Dark Samus is so generic that it could be the poster...thing for the ever-popular evil twin cliche. It's a duplicate of the main character made by a villain (its previous incarnation, Metroid Prime) that hates the main character and has contrasting morality.

Cliches are not allowed? Do you have proof of this alagation?

3. Dark Samus has only appeared in 2 games thus far, 3 counting the yet-to-be-released Corruption, and isn't very influential to the series.

Roy was released in 0 games at the time of Melee's release. Overall, the Metroid series doesn't have several titles unlike Mario and Zelda so three game appearences (as the main antagonist no less) is very influential. Not to mention the Prime saga is very profitable.

4. Dark Samus looks almost exactly like Samus Aran, uses the same kind of weapon to attack, in named after Samus Aran, and is completely based on Samus Aran's armour. having two characters this similar in separate slots takes away from the diversity of Brawl, much as Pichu/Pikachu, Dr. Mario/Mario, and Young Link/Link did for Melee. I'd much rather not have generic duplicates like this, even if (as many people have mentioned) Dark Samus wouldn't necessarily be a clone. It is still too similar for my tastes. I think its slot would be better served playing host to just about anything else (except the Hunters, even more generic evil twins, ridiculous suggestions, etc.

This is all opinion. The fact of the matter is that Dr. Mario, Y. Link, and Pichu were all added. Therefor this argument is completely invalid. At the least DS is drastically different, she doesn't even stand the same way, but you just can't seem to grasp this fact.

Boom shacka. Arguments, well phrased, summed up, and in your face. feel free to state counter-opinions, but don't just hide behind your "straw man" arguments and your falcified charges of "flaming".

Irony.

 

[Stryks]

U seriuosly believe skaurai wont ad him just because hes an "evil twin"... please, that has zero reason, the fact they added all of the cloes its because he didnt had time to finish the game properly!, now ha has had what more than a year now developing the game, soon to be about 2 years... u would think he would have enough time to make no-clone characters... sheik and ganondorf, like I said aappeared only once b4 melee, I KNWO for the last freakin time theyre zelda and ganon, but there alternate form/ego/body whatever appeared 1st on OoT, sheik has never appeared again, if u say "zelda and sheik are the same thus he had more apperances", well im guessing sheik appeared in MM, WW and TP... NO she didint, ZELDA appeared in those games (MM only as a vision), but not sheik, and he, along with ganondorf, where in melee with nly appearing once... so dont give me the "he only appeared # b4 brawl!" thats goes 4 the hunters too... DS isnt very influential to the series?... DS was the main boss of all the MPs (except hunters, pinball, shurely to be in mp3)... hes using phazon seeds in mp3 to spread phazon thus become more powerful, how is that not influential??... so what if they look similai? so did jigly and kirby, and zelda and peach had the same structure, same with link and all the sword users... dark samus has potential to be a non-clone character, has a high chance being in, and will appear in 3 games counting mp3 (his hand appeared in MP1 so that KINDA counts) b4 brawl is released... he has a high chance, if u hate him then ok, but dont go an say he doesnt have a chance, if U dont want him in brawl, then dont use him, millions DO wnat him in and u cant change that...

 

[KidHellion]

I'm stating that my arguments are correct because I believe they are, just as you do with yours. Also, I'd liek to point out again that I'm NOT listing reasons that Dark Samus isn't allowed in Brawl, but reason that I don't think it should be allowed. Everything we say here is speculation in its very nature. Now, on to countering your points.

1. The Ice Climbers were in because they were retro. That has no affect on DS's case. DS isn't retro.

2. I have no proof. I just don't WANT cliches in and I think obvious cliches are a waste of a character slot.

3. I've already stated that i consider Doc, Young Link, and Pichu to be mistakes. Mistakes shouldn't be repeated. Just because three unworthy characters were included, doesn't mean we need to continue to include such characters. I also stick by my claims of DS's lack of any defining reasons to be in Brawl. Ridley could also represent the Prime trilogy, shoudl they use his newest incarnations.

4. irony is when something happens that's the opposite of what you expected to happen. Besides, if "in your face" is enough to get you all offended, what're you doing on the internet?

EDIT: Oh, and Stryks? This isn't an upgraded version of an old, established character we're talking about here (ie. ganon/dorf). We're talking about brand spanking enw characters (ie. ds, hunters)

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I guess I have no reason to argue if you are not arguing against inclusion. I won't waste my time on opinions. By the way you didn't offend me. I can care less what anyone says on the internet.

 

[Devastlian]

U seriuosly believe skaurai wont ad him just because hes an "evil twin"... please, that has zero reason, the fact they added all of the cloes its because he didnt had time to finish the game properly!, now ha has had what more than a year now developing the game, soon to be about 2 years... u would think he would have enough time to make no-clone characters... sheik and ganondorf, like I said aappeared only once b4 melee, I KNWO for the last freakin time theyre zelda and ganon, but there alternate form/ego/body whatever appeared 1st on OoT, sheik has never appeared again, if u say "zelda and sheik are the same thus he had more apperances", well im guessing sheik appeared in MM, WW and TP... NO she didint, ZELDA appeared in those games (MM only as a vision), but not sheik, and he, along with ganondorf, where in melee with nly appearing once... so dont give me the "he only appeared # b4 brawl!" thats goes 4 the hunters too... DS isnt very influential to the series?... DS was the main boss of all the MPs (except hunters, pinball, shurely to be in mp3)... hes using phazon seeds in mp3 to spread phazon thus become more powerful, how is that not influential??... so what if they look similai? so did jigly and kirby, and zelda and peach had the same structure, same with link and all the sword users... dark samus has potential to be a non-clone character, has a high chance being in, and will appear in 3 games counting mp3 (his hand appeared in MP1 so that KINDA counts) b4 brawl is released... he has a high chance, if u hate him then ok, but dont go an say he doesnt have a chance, if U dont want him in brawl, then dont use him, millions DO wnat him in and u cant change that...

Whoa whoa whoa...I thought Dark Samus was considered a 'she'.

 

[Stryks]

If U dont want, so called "cliches" which dark samus AND wolf are way more than that, then ok, but just because U dont want them in, Idoubt sakurai will consider that.

U think just because samus is a cliche, and has SAMUS in his name, he shouldnt be allowed in the game? wow that makes 0 sense at all...

doc, Ylink and pichu, werent exactly mistakes, they needed fillers cause they were running put of time, in a way yes theyre mistakes, but Darks samus is more than worthy, being voted (here on smashboards on the now closed "most powerful character in nintendo history" thread) as one of the most powerful of all nintendos characters, sure that doesnt say much, but better that a doctor, a younger link and a smaller pikachu-like pkmn, not to mention those characters didnt have big roles in theyre games, maybe y.link but not that much, tough dark samus was the MAIN BOSS, theres only one bigger role than that, the hero/heroine him/herself...

Ridley should represent the the ENTIRE metroid series, being the main villains, but whose gonna represent the hit prime series?.. DS obcourse...

@devastitlan: I usually call him a he, should be a it being metroid prime, but may be a she, using samus phazon suit, meh Ill call dark samus a him...

 

[KidHellion]

@Devastlian: I wasn't sure, so I kept calling it an "it".

And Stryks, quit ignoring teh beef of my argument. I'm saying DS is waaaaay to similar to Samus in a variety of ways, as well as being a generic, cliched, lame plot twist and the least original Metroid character ever (except the SA-X, who's actually somewhat similar).

Next up, regardless of DS's amazing power, Sakurai is BALANCING caharcters. Thus, DS would be weakened no matter what, to make it fair.

Ridley was in prime too, so his Meta forms could represent all of Metroid, INCLUDING Prime.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

KidHellion makes a compelling point. I'm going to have to jump off the fence and onto the 'No Dark Samus' side.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I am perfectly fine with Ridley AND DS getting in. I think they should both be in. Whether you acknowledge it or not, DS is VERY different then Samus. She is not generic unless I missed the several other Dark Samus's and if you referring to Samus herself. Uhh... 2? Very generic.

She was more then a plot twist, she was the main antagonist. As for amazing power, big whoop, so she will be balanced. Doesn't hurt my feelings.

 

[Stryks]

GAH... Im tired with this, ive made my point serveral times, so IMO DS has a high chance, if u dont like him then so be it, he still has a chance, a high one by the way, and so do the hunters EVEN if they appeared in one game (maybe 2 since more hunters will appear in MP3, maybe new one and the old ones may return who knows...)... If u dont like them then thats ur opinion, tough never say they dont have a shot...

same goes with wolf...

 

[KidHellion]

DS is generic in that she is an evil version of the prgtagonist (an evl twin), a plot twist used in more series than I can count. The SA-X was also a dark, alien version of Samus, so she's a cliche even when comparison is limited to her own series. I'm not sure which came first, but both of these caharcters were bad ideas. Especially teh SA-X.

Dark Samus is a bad idea for a character, yes. A real cliche. Taht's not to say she can't BECOME worthy in my eyes. If she develops some real personality, a more differentiated arsenal of attacks, and a maybe her own name or a more unique look or something, I'll consider her more thoroughly.

@Paranoid_Android: Welcome home, brother! Nice username, by the way.

@Stryks: Oh, they totally have a shot. Even Wolf. I wish they didn't, and I certainly don't think they deserve a slot, but it's totally possible. I will, however, continue to argue my point of view. Capiche?

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Mario is cliche in every single game. C. Falcon is cliche in racing. Link is cliche in being a legendary hero. So what?

Dark Samus has her own name, Metroid Prime. Hell, if they want they can use that name instead. The SA-X are rip-offs and I can agree with that but DS has her own attacks that Samus can't do and she has more personality then Samus herself who doesn't really have a personality at all. As for looks, she floats and in a wierd sort of way, she has a black suit with phazon shoulder pads (better then Dr. Mario), and she has her own distinct voice.

 

[Stryks]

Capiche... now going back on topic...

Ridley
Dark Samus
Sylux or weavel
Rundus or another hunter

those are my choices for brawl...

gotta agree with kenny, samus doesn thave much of a personality, just being a brave hunter, thats it, we dont know if she merciless, arrogant, happy, sad, whatever... neither does link... not many of the smash roster have personality, and that doesnt count much in a fighting game like smash... (avoid more debates... avoid more debates...)

 

[KidHellion]

@Uncle Kenny: Mario isn't a cliche character. How many characters came before him that were heroic plumbers taht fought super-powered animals?

Captain Falcon? Yeah, he's exactly like that other bounty-hunting racecar driver from space. You know, that other guy that was always in Grand Prixs against supervillains?

Link?... Yeah, he's a bit cliche. At least he has some unique enemies and a unique mythology behind him. But yeah, he's generic as hell.

Samus has a personality: she's a badass bounty huntress on teh side of good. She has a genocial hatred of Metroids, and an even worse hatred of Space Pirates due to a raid on her human colony that resulted in Ridley killing both her parents before her eyes. She was then raised by teh bird people of Zebes, who provided her with her armour (made up of Chozo technology). She's something of a legend among other space-farers, and seems to favour attractive clothing when off duty if her victory pictures are to be believed.

All this versus Dark Samus: Was originally Metroid prime, a really impressive Metroid that arrived on a planet. Stuff happened. Space Pirates and imprisonment were incvolved. We hear about all this second hand, and the only reason we know it is because Samus wanted to kick some Space Pirate/Metroid ***. Then Samus beat it up, and it swiped her suit and became dark samus. It did evil things for phazon snacks. Samus beat it up again.

You notice how DS's entire backstory revolves around a mroe important conflict, ongoing for the entire series, between Samus and the Space Pirates? that's because DS is a plot device as much as she is a character.

@Stryks: Ridley. That's all I want, and all we need. preferably in Meta form for a more versatile moveset.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Mario's storylines are cliche. And since we are walking your path.

Dark Samus was a super metroid that affected an entire planet and killed an entire race of Chozo and now plans (in MP3) to spread phazon across the universe while in a suit similiar but not the same as Samus's. Very cliche.

 

[Sensai]

Overall, the Metroid series doesn't have several titles unlike Mario and Zelda so three game appearences (as the main antagonist no less) is very influential. Not to mention the Prime saga is very profitable.

I think to say that she's been the antagonist in three games is stretching it. Sure, you can say that Metroid Prime is the main bad-guy in MP1, but it's only technically Dark Samus. Then again, I used this arguement for Ganon/dorf earlier, so jee jee. The Metroid series has quite a few titles now...lemme check the Wiki. Counting....

8. Not including Zero Mission nor including the pinball game. That's a lot. In comparison, Zelda has 12.

Paranoid, glad to have you on our side.

She was more then a plot twist, she was the main antagonist. As for amazing power, big whoop, so she will be balanced. Doesn't hurt my feelings.

The thing is that it MIGHT upset Metroid fans though. I mean, this is Smash we're talking about. To be portrayed here is to go down into the annals of video game history.

Link?... Yeah, he's a bit cliche. At least he has some unique enemies and a unique mythology behind him. But yeah, he's generic as hell.

But he defined the genre, as did Mario. He may not be the only one to do it, but he was the first (and still the best) to do it. But, like Uncle Kenny says, you can't be specific for some characters (Mario was a plumber who battled a reptile etc) and be general for others (Dark Samus is Samus but dark). Be fair.

Does anyone even read my posts? :-/

 

[Stryks]

Ok consider that smash is a fighting game, is hes generic, a cliche, just some metroid it doesnt matter, the character has the moveset, is the main boss in the prime series, and is very popular, making a moveset wouldnt be hard, just a bit of creativity and ta-da, u got a not-a-samus-clone character...

cmon can sakurai really represent the metroid series wlel with just 2 characters? (3 if u consider zamus), thats a little low, being metroid now one of nintendo most succesful and popular franchise, kirby will probably have 3+ characters (king dedede and another hcaracter maybe), im not sayin the kirby fails, its a fun series yes, but the metroid series is now far more popular, SF will probably have 4 characters (fox, falco, wolf, krystal) maybe more, and metoird is a more popular and succesful title than SF, I doubt that 2 characters in brawl will cut it, I believe the franchise needs 4 or more characters to be properly represented, and all im saying is:

Samus/zamus
ridley
dark samus
hunter 1
hunter 2

will do just fine, if u guys just want ridley, then ok, but Im a big metroid fan, and I would be very disapointed, like many other metroid fans, if ONLY ridley is added, not counting samus/zamus...

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

@ Sensai, I am a huge metroid fan and I can assure you, the last thing I am worrying about is how much power DS will wield. I just want it in.

Stryks kinda over-jumps the limit and it is nice to dream but he has a point. Although I think that DS and Ridley should be the only ones let in. Who would you rather have then DS? A hunter that is even more of a rip-off (no offense Stryks) or a character with all of its own moves and abilities? The SA-X don't do well to represent metroid. We rarely see the Chozo. U-Mos was too minor. So all I see is Dark Samus which is a great choice. She would fit in well for Brawl as she mets all the criteria Stryks listed.

No matter what, you will always see a character you don't want to get in, get in. I hate Pichu beyond belief but it is in. Casing point, our tastes in character don't matter.

 

[Stryks]

Lol I over jump the limit, I just want this arguement of kidhellion and what he says of DS DEAD, still u make a point Kenny, Id be happy with just ridley and DS, still after I (finally) played hunters, I just want a hunter in badly, and with MP3 having hunters, I believe the hunter thing will grow in future metroid games, never the less ridley 1st, DS 2nd and if a hunter wants to get in, by all means get in the game... SA-X, U-mos only appeared onceand since the x parasites wont come back cause they crashed the big HQ thing is sr-388, x parasites are gone, and u-mos didnt had much of a role in mp2, just telling u abut the dangers and stuff like that, and chozo are generic, like koopas are to mario, sure they dont appear as often but u get the point...

 

[dotdotdot!]

Sorry, but I just had to jump on this.

Let me get this straight. Your only beef with DS is the name?

YES! YES! Oh GOD! Yes! Say it again! Say it again.

Your only beef with DS is the name?

Hear it roll off the tongue! It's beautiful. They have understood. Say it one more time.

Your only beef with DS is the name?

Yes! If Dark Samus was named anything else, she might be an interesting character to me! Even if she was called "Metroid Prime" or "Prime" or "Phason Queen" or "Wamus" or even "Xamus" or anything different from "Dark Samus," I might be able to take ANY of your arguments for her seriously. And if Zero Suit Samus had never been revealed, I might MIGHT be able to take Dark Samus seriousely.

Say it with me now. "Samus and Zero Suit Samus are both Samuses." It doesn't matter that they are both the same person, or even that they might even be a Zelda/Sheik transformation, They are both characters named "Samus."

And don't give me that Mario Dr. Mario bull. Mario and Dr. Mario are two character. Samus, DSamus, and (whether you like it or not) ZSamus are three characters, which is one more than the limit. And also, don't give me any guff about Wario or Luigi. Wario and Luigi at least have the courtesy to be named different things than Mario, unlike Dark Samus.

Your only beef with DS is the name?

Seriousely, the fact that DS is named Dark Samus makes all of your arguments sound like useless clicks and whistles to me. I hear them and I understand them, but the fact that their names are the same just makes me disregard them.

Like KidHellion was saying, DS is a product of an extremely common and, I admit, interesting in the games themselves, cliche of the "Dark" main character. Mario did it with Mario Sunshine (And earlier with Wario, though that is different, since Wario was given a back story independent from Mario), Zelda did it with Dark link in Zelda 2, and 4 swords Adventure, And now Metroid did it with Dark Samus (And it's not even a unique thing in Metroid either. Metroid Fusion did it (IMO very effectively) either earlier or at the same time as Metroid Prime did it).

Yes, she would have moves, yes, she might be interesting to play with, yes, she's got a fanbase, yes, she isn't the same character as Samus, Yes, she's a metroid who did the hanky-panky with some phason energy. So why don't I like it?

Your only beef with DS is the name?

YES!

Also. Just to be clear on why I oppose some Metroid characters so adamantly:

Ok consider that smash is a fighting game, is hes generic, a cliche, just some metroid it doesnt matter, the character has the moveset, is the main boss in the prime series, and is very popular, making a moveset wouldnt be hard, just a bit of creativity and ta-da, u got a not-a-samus-clone character...

cmon can sakurai really represent the metroid series wlel with just 2 characters? (3 if u consider zamus), thats a little low, being metroid now one of nintendo most succesful and popular franchise, kirby will probably have 3+ characters (king dedede and another hcaracter maybe), im not sayin the kirby fails, its a fun series yes, but the metroid series is now far more popular, SF will probably have 4 characters (fox, falco, wolf, krystal) maybe more, and metoird is a more popular and succesful title than SF, I doubt that 2 characters in brawl will cut it, I believe the franchise needs 4 or more characters to be properly represented, and all im saying is:

Samus/zamus
ridley
dark samus
hunter 1
hunter 2

will do just fine, if u guys just want ridley, then ok, but Im a big metroid fan, and I would be very disapointed, like many other metroid fans, if ONLY ridley is added, not counting samus/zamus...

That won't happen. I would like it if it did happen, but it won't happen. Metroid is basically unloved over in J-pan. People were at best saying "Metroid? Yeah, kinda fun" before it went FPS, but now that it's gone FPS, Japan Hates Metroid. That is sad, because North America, Europe, and Australia Loves Metroid, and the west is the only reason Metroid will float. Realistically, I might even expect Sakurai to believe that adding ZSamus will appease Metroid fans enough so that he doesn't have to research the games more than he has to, and won't add any more. I'm basically choosing the one character who I would like, who Japan would like (since he was prominant in the 2D metroids) and who would give us a useful, interesting moveset. Ridley. and hoping that Sakurai would think the same thing.

Kirby and Starfox are WAY more popular than Metroid. Maybe not in the USA, but in Japan, they are, and those sales, combined with our Kirby, Star Fox, and Metroid sales might paint a different picture than you might think.

But don't get your hopes up about 4 new metroid characters. I don't even expect Mario to get 4 new characters, more like 2 or three, and Metroid just doesn't have the same muscle that some characters from stronger franchises on both coasts might have.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Sakurai never said "A character with the same name as two other characters can't be in" so I win.

Edit: Actually, I didn't start in support for Dark Samus for the very same reason. I hated the idea of three Samus's in the game. The idea to me was very ridiculous. But now she is one of the most supported characters on my list. Do you know why? Because I realized one day that EVERYTHING we say or do DOESN'T matter. Whether you support a character or whether you don't DOESN'T matter.

No matter how relevant or ridiculous our arguments are DOESN'T matter. So instead of turning down every idea for one or two flaws I became open. Why not? Everything we say DOESN'T matter anyway. And when I looked past my personal beefs and at the character itself I realized how great the character was and now I support DS. Instead of arguing we should just be open.

 

[Stryks]

Yep didnt stop LINK and y. Link, and MARIO and dr. MARIO (bad examples but u get the idea), besides if they add diddy KONG would u say no cause theres already a donkey KONG??...

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

Erm... Weavel FTW?

 

[Stryks]

U see, HE supports a hunter, is that to hard, yes weavel... OR sylux FTW!! (I kinda prefer sylux, his intro part in the intro of hunters is sick!, but u gotta dig weavels blade thing in his arm XD...)

 

[dotdotdot!]

Sakurai never said "A character with the same name as two other characters can't be in" so I win.

Edit: Actually, I didn't start in support for Dark Samus for the very same reason. I hated the idea of three Samus's in the game. The idea to me was very ridiculous. But now she is one of the most supported characters on my list. Do you know why? Because I realized one day that EVERYTHING we say or do DOESN'T matter. Whether you support a character or whether you don't DOESN'T matter.

No matter how relevant or ridiculous our arguments are DOESN'T matter. So instead of turning down every idea for one or two flaws I became open. Why not? Everything we say DOESN'T matter anyway. And when I looked past my personal beefs and at the character itself I realized how great the character was and now I support DS. Instead of arguing we should just be open.

They never said it, but that's consistent with what they've done for past games (which should be taken into account for this one).

Well, I suppose it also has something to do with the fact that I hate hate HATE Zero Suit Samus for the exact same reason as I mildly dislike the idea of Dark Samus. So that should give you some indication of how I would react if DS actually did get in (especially at the expense of Ridley, which is most likely the only way DS could get in).

BTW

Yep didnt stop LINK and y. Link, and MARIO and dr. MARIO (bad examples but u get the idea), besides if they add diddy KONG would u say no cause theres already a donkey KONG??...

Once again, That's two characters with the same name, which has been shown to be the upwards limit of characters of one name. Adding a third one would be redundant, make me personally angry, and would put other Metroid characters chances in jeopardy.

Also, using Donkey and Diddy is just Fing stupid. C'mon, they look different and they are named different (Donkey Vs. Diddy). Try a little harder next time.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I support both Ridley and Dark Samus. Sakurai stated he wanted to represent the metroid franchise more (how many characters this warrants us is left to speculation) and Dark Samus along with Ridley does this well. Though the Dr. Mario and Y. Link argument is repetitive you will hear me use it again! Lucky you!

If you can get over two characters sharing a name you can get over three characters sharing a name. As I have said before, they can call her Metroid Prime while leaving her Dark Samus look. "But that would be wrong!"

What did they call Y. Link in-game? Just Link. What did they call him in Melee? Y. Link.

 

[Stryks]

Once again, That's two characters with the same name, which has been shown to be the upwards limit of characters of one name. Adding a third one would be redundant, make me personally angry, and would put other Metroid characters chances in jeopardy.

Also, using Donkey and Diddy is just Fing stupid. C'mon, they look different and they are named different (Donkey Vs. Diddy). Try a little harder next time.

U got something against the number 3 or what?...

donkey KONG
diddy KONG
they only have one part of their name that is the same... so if theyre diferent havin only one part of their name diferent...


Samus Aran
Dark samus

hey they have diferent names go figure!!...

 

[dotdotdot!]

I support both Ridley and Dark Samus. Sakurai stated he wanted to represent the metroid franchise more (how many characters this warrants us is left to speculation) and Dark Samus along with Ridley does this well. Though the Dr. Mario and Y. Link argument is repetitive you will hear me use it again! Lucky you!

If you can get over two characters sharing a name you can get over three characters sharing a name. As I have said before, they can call her Metroid Prime while leaving her Dark Samus look. "But that would be wrong!"

What did they call Y. Link in-game? Just Link. What did they call him in Melee? Y. Link.

aye, Thats the rub. I haven't gotten over ZSamus and Samus both being in, I'm still angry. And I wouldn't expect Sakurai to represent the Metroid franchise with more than one more character since it is a less popular franchise on the coast where Smash Bros. is being made. I know in my heart of hearts that if Dark Samus got in, then Ridley would be passed over, because there is only so much room for each franchise, and Metroid just isn't as big as we would like to think.

I suppose I just can't see it happening, or I can see it happening, and when it does I can see myself turning green and smashing things up. I can truly say that this is one idea that really does get on my nerves, along with the Hunters. (though they make more more angry because I actually think their game was an abject failure, but I already made that post)

Dr. Mario and Y. Link are quite different. They were CALLED clones, so one would expect that they have the same name as another character.

Also, way back in the thread Rhyme and I made a bet using the Rep system, and now the Rep system is gone, so our bet needs to be renewed somehow. Ridley getting in Vs. Dark Samus getting in, Loser Reps winner (or something else).

U got something against the number 3 or what?...

donkey KONG
diddy KONG
they only have one part of their name that is the same... so if theyre diferent havin only one part of their name diferent...

Yes, 3 characters with the same name is too many.

And notice that, regardless of how STUPID that Diddy/Donkey argument is, it's still only 2 character, and thus your foot was shot by your own hand.

Notice:
Samus Aran
Zero Suit Samus Aran
Dark Samus Aran

They are all Samuses with a descriptor in front of their names. Dark and Zero Suit are not proper names, but descriptions used to set them apart from the original Samus

Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong

For the Kongs, Diddy and Donkey are proper names, and Kong is the family name. Using that argument, Mario and Luigi are the same character (Mario Mario, and Luigi Mario) which, by the way, is an incorrect assuption.

You are quickly running out of your own feet to shoot.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I support both and believe both can be in. Sakurai is making an effort not to overflow the game with Japan-only characters or more importantly, not to think about only Japan. Fire Emblem was a vague franchise in the west and it got two representitives. To make up for it, give us two more characters for metroid, a popular franchise in the west.

The name is not as major a deal as you think. It can easilly be fixed so the character is called Metroid Prime. My point with Y. Link was that he was never referred to in his own game as Young Link but in Melee they changed his name (key word is changed) to Young Link. At least Dark Samus has a back-up name.

 

[dotdotdot!]

I support both and believe both can be in. Sakurai is making an effort not to overflow the game with Japan-only characters or more importantly, not to think about only Japan. Fire Emblem was a vague franchise in the west and it got two representitives. To make up for it, give us two more characters for metroid, a popular franchise in the west.

The name is not as major a deal as you think. It can easilly be fixed so the character is called Metroid Prime. My point with Y. Link was that he was never referred to in his own game as Young Link but in Melee they changed his name (key word is changed) to Young Link. At least Dark Samus has a back-up name.

And thus all the ills of the world were healed. I would be more open to the character if it were called Metroid Prime. It's semantic and petty, but god**** if it doesn't make me feel better.

Also, "Not overflowing the game with Japan-onlies" is not the same as "I'm going to put in 4-5 different Metroid characters" Giving more attention to a franchise that is not actually very popular could yield more than one or two more characters, but it's not too likely, and one of the slots has already been filled by ZS Samus.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Samus was already present thus it would be only adding 3 characters (2 if you don't count ZS Samus). I was simply pointing out that Sakurai is not watching just Japan, he is thinking outside the box. With a bigger rooster comes heavier representation. He only acknowledged Metroid out of all the franchises in that he "wanted to better represent it" and so I use this in the defense of adding 2 characters as opposed to 1.

 

[KidHellion]

See, I still don't want DS in. It's not the name that does it for me. It emphasizes just how generic DS is, and how similar to Samus she is. taht's all. It just highlights my real issues with the villain-come-lately.

Dark Samus (or metroid prime, or whatever you'd rather call the creature) is badass, and a cool villain to fight. But you have to udnerstand: Smash Bros. is for the REAL big guys. Sure, sometimes a few extra characters get in for a retro tribute (G&W, ICs, Ness, Y. Link) or as an advertisement (Roy) but usually it's for the heavy hitters.

If Sakurai has some time to fill during development (unlikely) then sure, go ahead and add DS. But otehrwise, no. If there any other unique, not-stupid, not-Hunter characters he might have a chance to add, prioritize them.

You know why? It's the same reason I keep stating. DS is too similar to Samus. Same method of attack, for one thing. Not to mention that her armour is SO SIMILAR to Samus's that the first time I saw a picture of her I thought it was just Samus in another suit, a Dark Suit to contrast that Light Suit thing from Echoes. She's THAT similar.

I raise the personality issue, and the backstory issue, to point out that, really, she's not that different from everybody else's evil clone. If they just ELABORATED on her and switched her getup A TINY BIT to set her apart from the crowd, I might tolerate her. But as she is now? No way. She pretty much the lowest priority character ever for me.

Sure, I'd let her in. But not the expense of ANYONE except maybe Pac-Man or Red. Or the Hunters.

And we have to afce the fact that Metroid is popular HERE, but less so in Japan. When Sakurai said he wanted less "Japan-only" kinda' characters, taht just meant he wanted to include cahracters that BOTH major consumer regions liked. Like Pikachu, or Meta Knight, or Pit. It doesn't mean he'll include characters that are pretty much only popular here. DS appears in FPS Metroids, the LEAST POPULAR Metroid games in Japan. How do we even know if we'll ever see her again after Corruption? If we don't then she will go down as just another stock character to be forgotten. And given that I see no reason for her to have any logetivity, that's just possible.

The sum it all up: DS should be a colour swap unless the developers have a LOT of free time and no other INTERESTING characters to add.

 

[Sensai]

I'm dropping out of this conversation, as I'm not contributing much to it and that which I do is being overlooked..../tear

Do any of you have school? Jesus, every time I look there are 2 more pages on this thing. Do you have to sleep? Eat? ANYTHING!?

 

[KidHellion]

I'm home sick from school, I eat at my computer, and my sleeping hours are irregular. Also, I'm easily amused. Betcha' couldn't tell, eh?

 

[shadenexus18]

Once again, That's two characters with the same name, which has been shown to be the upwards limit of characters of one name. Adding a third one would be redundant, make me personally angry, and would put other Metroid characters chances in jeopardy.

Also, using Donkey and Diddy is just Fing stupid. C'mon, they look different and they are named different (Donkey Vs. Diddy). Try a little harder next time.

I think Shakespeare said it best when he said... "What's in a name?" C'mon guys!

As for the Dark Samus & Samus debate, I will contribute my own opinion. They are like yin & yang so to speak. In addition, they are like the opposite sides of a coin. So what if they have the same name or that they are similar. They both should be in Brawl.

I so love the dark sides of a main character or an alter-ego. They are always way more tighter than the centralized character. Example: Sonic/Shadow.

 

[OysterMeister]

Ridley should get in above and beyond DS, because he's an awesome space pirate pteradactly monster. And his addition makes three, and that's probably enough unique characters for most any series. Don't want to over-focus.
But DS could still make it in as a clone. Let's face it, she already looks the part, all it would take is a new model, a different walk and run animation, an maybe a few blue particle effects and there you go. And so far as material for good clones is concerned, Dark Samus is high on the list. Not many major plot characters are so similar to another already-in-Smash-Bros character from the very get-go.
I'd say don't overlook this chance to have the cake, and eat it too.

 

[KidHellion]

Funny that someone shoudl mention the whole Sonic/Shadow thing. Character-wise, I've always preferred Shadow. Do you know why? Because they gave him a backstory independant of the main character, a unique personality, and (more recently) some unique abilities. Sure, he's kind of the generic anti-hero badass, but he still has more backstory than pretty much any other Sonic character, and has that whole good/evil contradictory personality disorder thing. Then, with the advent of Sonic battle and Shadow's solo debut, he gained even mroe unique attributes. I feel this sets him apart from other "evil twins", at least somewhat.

That said, don't take this the wrong way. Shadow would still be ******** to include in Brawl as anything but a colour swap for Sonic.

 

[shadenexus18]

Ridley should get in above and beyond DS, because he's an awesome space pirate pteradactly monster. And his addition makes three, and that's probably enough unique characters for most any series. Don't want to over-focus.
But DS could still make it in as a clone. Let's face it, she already looks the part, all it would take is a new model, a different walk and run animation, an maybe a few blue particle effects and there you go. And so far as material for good clones is concerned, Dark Samus is high on the list. Not many major plot characters are so similar to another already-in-Smash-Bros character from the very get-go.
I'd say don't overlook this chance to have the cake, and eat it too.

If they Luigify Dark Samus, I will be happy; if they give her a totally different moveset from Samus then I will be very, very, blissful!

 

[Red Exodus]

I don't have a problem with cliches, I have a problem with people who call everything cliche, it's so annoying that in order to not be cliche you have to go out of the way, which is also cliche, go figure.