Samus's Rivals...Who gets the SSBB spot?

[Inferno_blaze]

Wait, what? I thought it was going by points. 3 points is good and 1 is highly indifferent. I guess I got confused about the voting. If thats the case I change my vote so Ridly is in the lead and Hunters are last. I still hate the hunters though.

No, you were right, he was wrong. 3 means you give that character 3 points, 1 means you give it 1 point, so 3 is better.

DS wouldn't be a clone, it'd piss too many people off but Ridley FTW. You can't really say DS was the main boss of MP1, only MP2 & 3 (maybe not even the main boss of 3, we don't know yet). Ridley is Samus' arch rival, so he counters the "main boss of 2 games" point but still they should both be in, we wants a samus event match vs Ridley & DS. It'd be so freaking awesome I'm so amazed I thought of that way back before anyone else did.

 

[McFox]

If we're still voting, I give 3 points to Ridley, and 0 points to everyone else, because no one else deserves any points.

Yeah, I said it. Dark Samus sucks. So do the Hunters.

And Uncle Kenny, dotdotdot was saying that he gives 1 point to the Hunters, not that they ARE his #1.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I know that now. CoughnegativenancyCough.

 

[KidHellion]

Well, I'm not about to read 33 pages of posts before putting in my two cents, so I'll just say what I think:

Dark Samus- It only appeared in 2 or 3 games, it looks almost exactly like Samus, and it has Samus in its name. It'd probably be a clone, but even if it wasn't it would STILL be just another Samus on the roster. I vote to make it a costume for Samus.

The Hunters- They only appeared in one game, were given vague backstories, and haven't been used since. besides, Sakurai wouldn't include all 4, and that leaves him with a tough decision: whoever he chose, he'd alienate fans of all the other ones. I vote for no inclusion.

Ridley- He appears in almost every single Metroid game, and is Samus's most reoccuring enemy. He also has an important part in her origin story, would provide another heavyweight, and he's a badass space dragon. That's all gotta' count for something? Not to mention that his cyborg form has TONS of movelist potential.

 

[T-major]

If we're still voting, I give 3 points to Ridley, and 0 points to everyone else, because no one else deserves any points.

Yeah, I said it. Dark Samus sucks. So do the Hunters.

quoted for truth.

Metriod characters in Brawl should go like this;

1) Ridley
2) ???
3) Profit!

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Dark Samus- It only appeared in 2 or 3 games, it looks almost exactly like Samus, and it has Samus in its name. It'd probably be a clone, but even if it wasn't it would STILL be just another Samus on the roster. I vote to make it a costume for Samus.

1. Roy only appeared in... oh wait, he didn't appear in any games at the time Melee was released.

2. Dr. Mario and Mario.

3. It isn't Samus, it is Metroid Prime with a look that resembles Samus. She even has COMPLETELY different moves.

4. I vote to make it a character.

 

[KidHellion]

Roy actually did appear in a game or two, but only in japan. Jeeze, it even says so on his trophy. And Dr. Mario's a bad example, as I want him cut.

Plus, I'm aware DS isn't actually Samus, but it is Samus's doppeganger, and it's anmed after her, and it would, indeed be a thrid "Samus" on the roster, a dark Samus.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Roy actually did appear in a game or two, but only in japan. Jeeze, it even says so on his trophy. And Dr. Mario's a bad example, as I want him cut.

Plus, I'm aware DS isn't actually Samus, but it is Samus's doppeganger, and it's anmed after her, and it would, indeed be a thrid "Samus" on the roster, a dark Samus.

It is a fact that Roy's first game was SSBM. You shouldn't trust the trophies, a lot of them are inaccurate.

If you want a character cut that doesn't mean they will be. Just because you dislike someone doesn't warrant anything. I was using the fact that he did get into Melee (as well as Y. Link) despite your reasoning.

DS has a completely seperate moveset from the original Samus. Though some are similiar they are different. At the least she will be a Luigified version of Samus but I am sure she would have a whole separate moveset altogether.

 

[KidHellion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_(Fire_Emblem)

Read the article, ro at least some of it. Boom shacka. Just because they weren't released on our continent until after melee, doesn't mean they didn't exist beforehand.

EDIT: Oh, and disregard the "First game" thing. THAT would be a misguided addition.

 

[Stryks]

Dark Samus- It only appeared in 2 or 3 games, it looks almost exactly like Samus, and it has Samus in its name. It'd probably be a clone, but even if it wasn't it would STILL be just another Samus on the roster. I vote to make it a costume for Samus.

The Hunters- They only appeared in one game, were given vague backstories, and haven't been used since. besides, Sakurai wouldn't include all 4, and that leaves him with a tough decision: whoever he chose, he'd alienate fans of all the other ones. I vote for no inclusion.

Ok screw the cats, ur my new target *loads shotgun*

Dark Samus: Looks like samus, but it AINT samus, Ive stated how diferent DS and samus are, quite possibly as many times as the half of my overall post count... but here I go...
Dark Samus is Metroid prime (spoiled it 4 anyone?, go ahead and -rep me ), u ask why it has samus's suit look? it absorbed the phazon suit and use that as a base to make a new body, he is obtaining phazon to, quite possibly, transform back to MP, tough they have the same look, the have way, WAY diferent attacks, such as: phazon dive attack, phazon spreader, phazon charge beam (with one charge= 2 full power phazon beam attack), far more powerful boost ball, phazon shield, can turn invisible, and no to mention some new (quite possibly) attacks in MP3... that takes the away the clone-thing, now Dark Samus and samus are *take note* DIFERENT CHARACTERS!!, she is called DARK samus cause of the look-alike, obcourse DS has a darker, eviler look, thus the name Dark, why not sinister Samus, evil Samus, phazon samus, dont know dont care, fact is theyre diferent characters, u say they have the same name thus DS has to be an alternate costume, how wrong u are, seriously dark samus is just way... WAY diferent to samus to put as an alternate costume, yes daisy was an alt. for peach, wario for mario, but putting samus main enemy in the MP series as an alternate costume is just dum, so that makes up the Dark Samus thing...

Hunters: Theyve only appeared in one game huh? so did ICs, and so did ganondorf by the time melee was made, doesnt matter, if the game was a succes and the character(s) is(are) popular, then theres a chance, sure choosing one from the others will be difficult, yes, but never the less, a hunter or 2 have to be in brawl, I say a hunter from hunters and one from MP3 must be in brawl, the hunters haven been shown from MP3, but imsure at least ONE has to be from MPH, new ones will be shown, such an example is the already shown rundus, using ice type attacks, that alone will make him unique in the game (god if u say he will be an IC clone, ill shoot every last cat... jk), of all the hunters, I say weavel and sylux have a better chance, thw worm guy has hands too, but the other 2, the red one and noxys dont have hands if i remember correctly so grabbing will be ackward, weavel and sylux are themost popular between the hunters, exlucding samus, many want a space pirate in brawl, thus weavel, many like sylux, including myself, and popularity has to be taken notice, Im sure sakurai will make a good choice will choosing a hunter, besides the metroid series must be well reresented and, havin samus, zamus, ridley and d. samus seems poor considering the roster growing, and havin more slots for characters...

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_(Fire_Emblem)

Read the article, ro at least some of it. Boom shacka. Just because they weren't released on our continent until after melee, doesn't mean they didn't exist beforehand.

EDIT: Oh, and disregard the "First game" thing. THAT would be a misguided addition.

They are talking about Fire Emblem as in the franchise not his game that he appeared in. The first game stands as well.

 

[KidHellion]

Actually Ganon, Ganondorf's true form, appeared extremely frequently before melee. Ice Climber, sure, but that was THEIR OWN AGME. Dark Samus got a bit part. the fact is Dark Samus IS just an evil Samus made of phazon energy and a Metroid. It shouldn't have priority over Ridley.

And Uncle Kenny? provide me with ONE other piece of proof for this Roy thing and I'll admit defeat. RELIABLE proof.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Ask any hardcore FE fan and they will tell you. I am too lazy to look up links. I will say this however, the FE franchise is known for having a different lord (main character) in each game. No one game is exactly the same so Roy did appear in Melee before his own game.

As for popularity, the IC, Ness, and Mr. Game & Watch were unpopular. She was the main villian in three games. That counts for something.

 

[Stryks]

he doesnt have priority over ridley I never EVER said that, but he has the 4th slot of the metroid characters in brawl (samus, zamus, ridley...), and it aint samus its metroid prime with another name!... GANON appeared frequently in zelda but not ganonDORF, ganonDORF appeared for the 1st time in OoT, GANON appeared in the 1st zelda, did ever at any point in melee did it said: This winner is Ganon? no!, di ata any point can u select ganon and the annoucer said GANON? no! GANONDORF was in melee not aganon, and having only one appearance b4 melee pretty much takes down ur comment on the hunters...

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I'm pretty much rooting for Ridley and DS to be in. People always think you have to take a side, why not both?

 

[KidHellion]

To Uncle Kenny: Ness is actually extremely popular in Japan, as is his series.

To Stryks: Ganondorf IS Ganon. Ganon is his true form. Ganon=Ganondorf, they just decided to sue a curent, popular incarnation of ganondorf. You know, like how they're using the TP Link, and how they refer to the more popular, Adult Link as simply Link, even though Young link appeared first and more often.

And I KNOW DS isn't Samus Aran. But it is a being that looks almost EXACTLY like her, made up of phazon energy and a Metroid. Which is what I said last post. get it? It's still essentially another Samus, or a reasonable fascimile. It'd be like including Waluigi and Luigi.

I don't count wario, 'cause he's got his own series. Two of them. And he doesn't even have a duplicate outfit all the time anyway.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Would you count Dr. Mario and Mario? They ARE the same person.

 

[kaid]

I remember hearing Roy was in a previous FE, but not as a playable character. He was the 3-year old baby of two of the other characters.

 

[McFox]

Because there's absolutely no reason to waste time adding DS to the game, and every reason to add Ridley.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I am down with Ridley but I want them both in.

 

[KidHellion]

I remember hearing Roy was in a previous FE, but not as a playable character. He was the 3-year old baby of two of the other characters.

I thought that was teh game that appeared AFTERWARD, and he was playable in game beforehand... Not sure about that though.

 

[Stryks]

To Stryks: Ganondorf IS Ganon. Ganon is his true form. Ganon=Ganondorf, they just decided to sue a curent, popular incarnation of ganondorf. You know, like how they're using the TP Link, and how they refer to the more popular, Adult Link as simply Link, even though Young link appeared first and more often.

Me playing games since I was 3 u would think I would know this, yes Ganon=ganondorf, I know theyre the same guy, but ganon is like an alternate form he takes when unleashing the full power of the triforce of... power... yeah... but ganonDORF was 1ST introduced in OoT, thus only appeared in one game, I know ganon=ganondorf, but back when the 1st zelda was released, there was no such thing as ganondorf, only ganon, u could have asked ANY gamer if they know who ganonDORF is, they would all have said: dont u mean ganon?... Ganons 1st appearance in human form (ganondorf) appeared 1st and, by the time melee was released, only in OoT, thus he only appeared in one game b4 melee... thus ur logic of the hunters not havin a shot in brawl cause of ONE apperance= fails...

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Me playing games since I was 3 u would think I would know this, yes Ganon=ganondorf, I know theyre the same guy, but ganon is like an alternate from he takes when unleashing the full power of the triforce of... power... yeah... but ganonDORF was 1ST introduced in OoT, thus only appeared in oen game, I know ganon=ganondorf, but back when u the 1st zelda was released, there was no such thing as ganondorf, only ganon, u could have asked ANY gamer if they know who ganonDORF is, they would all have said: dont u mean ganon?... Ganons 1st appearance in human form (ganondorf) appeared 1st and, by the time melee was released, and only appearance was in OoT, thus he only appeared in one game b4 melee... thus ur logic of the hunters not havin a shot in brawl cause of ONE apperance= fails...

I think this argument is lacking since it kind of defeats the Dark Samus and Metroid Prime are the same person argument. A better one would be to go with Roy being in 0 games.

 

[KidHellion]

No, that's not what I said at all. They're the same guy, right? We agree on this.

You notice Link's TP version has only appeared in one agme thus far? yet they upgraded him to this version. the same goes for Ganon/Ganondorf. They included him in his human form because it was still old, influential final boss Ganon, just in a more current, popular form. See?

 

[Stryks]

Dark samus appeared in one game, yes, but Im not saying anything that damages my dark samus arguement, he says ganondorf has many apperances b4 OoT= wrong, only having one appearance by the time melee was released, ganon being an alternate form when ganondorf unleashes power, metroid prime is dark samus yes, both are the same guy, but with diferent forms, like ganon and ganondorf, another thing im sayin is that, if ganondorf didnt exist, adding and enemy for zelda in smash would have been hard, ganon being a giant pig with 2 blades just wouldnt fit, hed be too powerful, same with metroid prime, not having hands and all, but thanx to ganondorf, a character that has a fighter look was able to be added, now this goes for dark samus, thanx for a more fighter look, and its variaety of attacks dark samus can be added to brawl...

ill put it this way:

Metroid prime=dark samus
ganondorf=ganon

metroid prime form not the same as Dark samus form
ganondorf form not the same as ganon form

apperances b4 melee:
Ganondorf:1
ganon: way more
thus the reason of the hunters having just appearing in one game b4 brawl, thus losing chances in being in= FAIL...

*please dont make me explain all of this again...

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Mewtwo was in despite being "too powerful" so I see no problems in that department.

Also, DS is slated to appear in Metroid Prime 3. I count that as 2 games.

Now that I am looking at your post it seems you are arguing in favor of the hunters. Since I don't support them, I will not comment.

 

[Stryks]

oh for the... *shoots a cat* ok thats one, everytime I have to explain this again one more will go down...

The other guy said that the hunter dont have much of a shot cause the hunters only havin one aperance, thats why I explained all of the ganondorf thing, ganondorf only appeared in one game and he appeared in melee, so his arguement fails, and I was only explaining how metroid prime and dark samus are the same person, but how the MP form aint the same as the DS form, cause he said ganon=ganondorf thus ganondorf has many apperances b4 melee, hes wrong cause the ganon form appeared many times b4, but the ganondorf form only appeared once (b4 melee)... and with what uncle kenny said about DS will have 2 apperances by the time brawl is released, thus DS h8rs dont go: DS has only appeared once! he cant be in brawl!!...

 

[KidHellion]

Once again, Stryks, let me expalin.

Ganon=Influential Zelda villain, appearing in many games before Melee. Giant anthromorphic pig.
Ganondorf= The more popular, current form of Ganon, seen as a human until he gets really pissed off and steals the Triforce or something. Put in to represent Ganon in general.

Much as:

Link=The name of several characters, all main characters, most of whom were young boys.
TP Link=The hero of one game thus far (Twilight Princess) appearing as a fully-grown man. Put in to represent Link in general.

Now, TP Link represents all Links, and Ganondorf represents Ganon in general. Both are shown in what was currently their most current, popular form. Do you understand? Thus TP Link represents decades of Link, and Ganondorf represented decades of Ganon. Sure, they could have included Link as a young boy and ignored the more recent adult version, and they could have ignored ganon's new human form and just resized the pig form. But they didn't, because they wanted their most recent incarnations.

Now, you can't make this argument for Dark Samus/Metroid prime. Even if you include both forms of the creature, it has still only appeared in 2 games, with a third coming up. And the fact is, whatever it's true origins, it's still named after Samus, it still looks liek Samus, it still sues an arm cannon as its main means of attack, and it's still not very influential. Sure, they could include it, but then you would have Samus, Zero Suit samus AND Dark Samus. Separate entity or not, it's still way too similar to the real deal, and not a very important character even factoring in its Metroid Prime form.

Ridley, however, appears often, is much cooler and more original, and kicks ***. We don't need a bunch of doppelgangers in Brawl.

EDIT: The Hunters, now they only have one appearance under ANY guidelines.

 

[T-major]

I just wan't to ask something. why are people regarding Zamus as another Samus? you can't say "there would be three Samus's if DS got in" because there would only be two (acualy, one. because DS is different from Samus). seeing as Zamus dosn't count as a new character, and only a new feature of an returning one. it's like labeling Dr. Mario as a Mario rep. he's Mario, so it's just redundent to count him.

I still suport both Ridley and Dark Samus. but if only one could get in, DS can go to hell in a hand-bag for all I care.

 

[shadenexus18]

Mewtwo was in despite being "too powerful" so I see no problems in that department.

Sorry to get off topic guys, but lets talk about Mewtwo for a sec. I don't know about you guys, but I cried myself to sleep when I saw one of my favorite powerful PK fall to pieces before my eyes. His moves we're weak, he was slow, he's just as delicate as Jigglypuff, & he's very difficult to master (he doesn't even possess his psychic aura!) . Heck, Pikachu & Pichu are easier (and high tier material) to play than he is. The developers have got to do better than this if Mewtwo makes another appearance.

Man, I hope they don't do this to Ridley or Dark Samus. I'd have to take a firearm or two to the head of one of the developers if this were to occur...

 

[Stryks]

*shoots cat #2*

ok I f I remember correctly, in melee, in ganondorf throphy, ganondorfs 1st apperance as stated below is OoT, not LoZ, I really dont remember so someone confirm this, anyway yes Link is the name of all the heros, but it the reincarnation, the fact that theyre all named link is ither destiny or just plain coincidence, in every smash theres an adult link, in 64 and melee its OoT, in brawl its TP, but understand passing the time, the more new games where theres a adult link with more detailed look, THAT adult link will be represented in the next smash, now yes ganondorf is the new representation of ganon, but u can change the fact that ganon= pig form ganondorf=human form... which form did they add in melee? human form, thus ganonDORF, i what I said of the throphy is true, the game itself backs me up, and, thus human form=ganondorf 1st appeared in melee, and means, as the throphy says, ganondorf 1st appeared n OoT, and finally only having one appearance in b4 melee... again ur resoning of hunter havin low chance being in brawl for only one apperance= FAILS...

I NEVER said Id prefer DS over ridley, I want them both, I know ridley has a higher chance, but the next character will be dark samus, and remember dark samus is the METROID PRIME, using the phazon suit as a base, just because it says SAMUS, doesnt mean its the same person, if my name is jimmy, and some other guy is name jimmy to,we're not the same person!, same goes with samus and DS, what other name could they give to a samus LOOKING enemy with a dark color? dark metroid prime is too long and unoriginal, they gave it dark samus, cause they looks equally, being only darker and more sinister looking... if theyre the same person then how the hell does samu fight DS in MP2, she cant be in 2 places at once!...

please dont make me go for the 3rd cat...

 

[KidHellion]

Dr. Mario may just be Mario, but he does take up an extra slot. Also, another point: Even if the Hunters were included, which would you include? Do you really think ALL of them deserve inclusion, even though they've each only been in once game?

To Stryks: I have yet to say DS and Samus were the same person. They AREN'T. I know this. I keep saying this. They are insanely similar, though, and lame evil twincliche's don't deserve a spot. The only reason Wario got in was he had his own series and outfit and everything. Dark samus is simply a cliched, unoriginal, lame character without a long history to justify it's inclusion.

Also WE CAN SHUT UP ABOUT GANONDORF NOW, okay. Ganon and Ganondorf are the same character, no matter what you say. One's justa true form, while the other's a humanoid form. BOTH ARE GANON, okay

 

[Stryks]

Obcourse not, the one that would be more interesting, has more popularty, and has hands (the rock, noxus and trace dont...) or maybe rundus from MP3, he has ice attacks... XD...

 

[shadenexus18]

I'm in fact better with Dr. Mario than Mario. His moves just have way more "kick" than Mario. The Dr. of KO's is a top tier in my book. (Sigh) Yet again, I got off topic.

 

[Sensai]

It is a fact that Roy's first game was SSBM. You shouldn't trust the trophies, a lot of them are inaccurate.

Quoted for truth. KidHellion, I'm on your side, but the fact of the matter is that this is true. Evidence can be found at the link below, but in case you don't wanna read for it, it's in the trivia section which I have quoted.

Roy is the only Nintendo character to appear in a game before appearing in his native franchise. The game he appeared in before appearing in the Fire Emblem series is Super Smash Bros. Melee. This was done in part to promote the release of Fuuin no Tsurugi in Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_(Fire_Emblem)

The problem with using Ganon/Gannondorf as an arguement is that he has (while not in that particular form) appeared in every Zelda game to date (save Adventures of Link and Link's Awakening). The man you see in Melee symbolizes the idea, and is more of an allusion to the LoZ series then an actual character. Somewhat like including Jigglypuff. Not a specific one, but just more of a nod of the head.

You notice Link's TP version has only appeared in one agme thus far? yet they upgraded him to this version. the same goes for Ganon/Ganondorf. They included him in his human form because it was still old, influential final boss Ganon, just in a more current, popular form. See?

Quoted for emphasis.

Mewtwo was in despite being "too powerful" so I see no problems in that department.

And they screwed him up so badly that even the most hardcore Pokemon/Smash fan won't touch him with a 10 foot pole now. Do you really want that to happen to a Smash version of a character? Smash is getting to the point where an appearance within is almost like winning an Emmy (Ha! Stab at Sony!); it's not something to be scoffed at.

Sorry to get off topic guys, but lets talk about Mewtwo for a sec. I don't know about you guys, but I cried myself to sleep when I saw one of my favorite powerful PK fall to pieces before my eyes. His moves we're weak, he was slow, he's just as delicate as Jigglypuff, & he's very difficult to master (he doesn't even possess his psychic aura!) . Heck, Pikachu & Pichu are easier (and high tier material) to play than he is. The developers have got to do better than this if Mewtwo makes another appearance.

See? Q.E.D.

ok I f I remember correctly, in melee, in ganondorf throphy, ganondorfs 1st apperance as stated below is OoT, not LoZ, I really dont remember so someone confirm this

This is true. However, Ganon(dorf) symbolizes the villainy from the entire series. Sure, DS could do this, but Ridley stands for (to me, at least) all the Space Pirates that have ever been in the game.

Wow. This post is entitled 'Sensai writes a freakin' novel.' Sorry fellas. Mad props if you read all of that.

 

[dotdotdot!]

It is a fact that Roy's first game was SSBM. You shouldn't trust the trophies, a lot of them are inaccurate.

If you want a character cut that doesn't mean they will be. Just because you dislike someone doesn't warrant anything. I was using the fact that he did get into Melee (as well as Y. Link) despite your reasoning.

DS has a completely seperate moveset from the original Samus. Though some are similiar they are different. At the least she will be a Luigified version of Samus but I am sure she would have a whole separate moveset altogether.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_(Fire_Emblem)

Read the article, ro at least some of it. Boom shacka. Just because they weren't released on our continent until after melee, doesn't mean they didn't exist beforehand.

EDIT: Oh, and disregard the "First game" thing. THAT would be a misguided addition.

And Uncle Kenny? provide me with ONE other piece of proof for this Roy thing and I'll admit defeat. RELIABLE proof.

Ask any hardcore FE fan and they will tell you. I am too lazy to look up links. I will say this however, the FE franchise is known for having a different lord (main character) in each game. No one game is exactly the same so Roy did appear in Melee before his own game.

As for popularity, the IC, Ness, and Mr. Game & Watch were unpopular. She was the main villian in three games. That counts for something.

Um. Look at the dates.

Smash Bros Melee came out in 2001, FE6 (Roy's game) came out in 2002(and was never even released in the states)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Emblem_6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._series#Super_Smash_Bros._Melee

Uncle Kenny gets the point

Actually Ganon, Ganondorf's true form, appeared extremely frequently before melee. Ice Climber, sure, but that was THEIR OWN AGME. Dark Samus got a bit part. the fact is Dark Samus IS just an evil Samus made of phazon energy and a Metroid. It shouldn't have priority over Ridley.

Me playing games since I was 3 u would think I would know this, yes Ganon=ganondorf, I know theyre the same guy, but ganon is like an alternate form he takes when unleashing the full power of the triforce of... power... yeah... but ganonDORF was 1ST introduced in OoT, thus only appeared in one game, I know ganon=ganondorf, but back when the 1st zelda was released, there was no such thing as ganondorf, only ganon, u could have asked ANY gamer if they know who ganonDORF is, they would all have said: dont u mean ganon?... Ganons 1st appearance in human form (ganondorf) appeared 1st and, by the time melee was released, only in OoT, thus he only appeared in one game b4 melee... thus ur logic of the hunters not havin a shot in brawl cause of ONE apperance= fails...

Also, I hate to be an UTTER know-it-all, but technically, they call him Ganondorf in Link to the Past. When you save one of the girls (it might be Zelda even) and they give you their little speech. Let me see if I can find the screenshot I took to prove this somewhere else.

 

[givequicheachance]

The problem with using Ganon/Gannondorf as an arguement is that he has (while not in that particular form) appeared in every Zelda game to date (save Adventures of Link and Link's Awakening).

And The Oracle games, Majora's Mask, and Minnish Cap. Chances are he won't be in the Phantom Hourglass either. SO even counting the oracle games as 1, and disregarding the Phantom Hourglass because it's still speculative, that's 5 Zelda games that Ganon(dorf) did not feature in.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Wario is his own character, he is far from a rip-off of Mario and he doesn't even need his own series to prove that. DS is a lot more different then Samus. Fight her in the last fight and she even looks drasically different. My point with Dr. Mario and Mario is that even though they look similiar (hell they are the same character) they still got in so saying a character looks similiar doesn't mean JACK SQUAT. They can still get in and that is what I am arguing about. DS's inclusion. So far, the only thing I got from you KidHellion was that you don't like the character which is complete and total opinion and therefor doesn't add to your argument.

 

[KidHellion]

The only reason that was all you got out of my posts is because you aren't really listening. Just because Dr. Mario got in, and Pichu got in, and Young Link got in, doesn't mean Dark Samus should get in. There's a reason each of those characters got in, as with Roy. I'll surrender about which game was his first- I've been proven wrong there. Still, they included him for a reason. Dr. Mario was in because all they really did was alter his skin and slightly alter a couple moves, and it was a good excuse to include his music. Sakurai himself admitted this. Pichu was in because, once again, he was easy to include, and he was extremeley popular in Japan. Young Link got in to reflect past Zelda games, and because, yet AGAIN, he was an easy-to-program-in CLONE. Roy? To advertise his games, apparently. I did some research, and apparent Sigurd as originally going to be the other FE character, alongside Marth.

That said, I want every single one of those characters (with the possible exception of Young Link, as they could always upgrade him to his cell-shaded version with unique moves) removed for Brawl. ESPECIALLY Dr. Mario.

Next, I never SAID Wario was a ripoff of Mario. At least, he's not anymore. I like him now. But he DID start off as the "evil twin cliche". Don't deny it- He has exxagerated versions of Mario's physical attributes, he's selfish and greedy, and his name is similar. He's evolved into a unique character, but he started off as an "evil Mario".

Now, Dark Samus has the same origins, at leats in terms of design- dark samus is an "evil twin" of Samus, having a similar appearance, providing a rival, and using similar means of attack. the difference is, DS has NOT evolved beyond this. DS has not developed a unique, separate design as Wario has. DS remains an "evil twin cliche", just an uncreative stock villain based on the main character. Not only that, but DS has never had its own series, nor has it appeared very frequently in Samus's series- 3 games total, counting its apearance as a metroid. This alone wouldn't be reason for exlcusion, but DS is also, as I stated earlier, dull, bland, cliched, and generic.

Practically EVERY Nintendo character has an 'evil twin". Should we include Dark Kirby? Boshi? Waluigi? Daisy (she's not really evil, but she's a total Peach ripoff)? No. When DS develops some unique features that set her apart from these other characters, I'll consider it.

Now, the Hunters. They appeared in ONE GAME as lame stock characters for you to fight or play as in multiplayer. They're not particularily interesting, and there's quite a few of them. Now, all of them had similar gameplay, so if one can work for a moveset, they all can. I'm not debating this. But they only appeared once in a handheld game, and they're not ALL gonna' get in. Is tehre a MAIN hunter, or are they all of similar importance? If tehre one that's actually a MAIN VILLAIN, I suppose they COULD include it. Not over Ridley, not even over DS, but I GUESS they could. If tehre isn't, well then I seriously doubt sakurai wants to choose one and alienate fans of the others. The easiest solution? Take into account their importance and don't include any. Give 'em trophies and leave it at that.

So, in summary?

DS should be a trophy and colour swap for Samus.
The Hunters should just be trophies.
Ridley kicks major ***, and should be playable.

 

[Stryks]

Ok so I can finally let this go:

Ridley chances: Very high
Dark samus: High (to make things clear: HE AINT SAMUS! Hes metroid prime!!)
A hunter (from MPH): not as high as ridley or DS, but thatnx to the succes of the game, they have a shot...
a hunter (from MP3): dont know yet, but Rundus, a ice using hunter, may have a shot, since mostly other smash candidates from the metroid series are mostly villans, havin another hero from the series may work...