Samus Basics

[Jasona]

up+b​

there are two types of up+b's: those that you start from the air (a-up+b) and those that you start from the ground (g-up+b). the g-up+b has knockback on the last strike, but the a-up+b doesn't. likewise, the a-up+b has something that the g-up+b doesn't and i was slow in seeing it as more than a trade off. the earliest FF time for the a-up+b is before the last strike, whereas the earliest FF time for the g-up+b is well after it.
there is some other important stuff about DI, facing, ending the up+b early to take advantage of the direction of each strike, invulnerability, lag canceling, blah, blah, blah... i'll do it later
screw attack thread -> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=68889

missiles (OMFG @ using missles)​

she's got smash missiles (smashing right/left on joystick + b) and homing missiles (tilting right/left + b). Plus, if she lands while firing a missile, she can cancel all of the following lag, which is refered to as missle-canceling because adding the "i" is ghey.
gotta add the DMJ, varying the height of the missile, various missle-canceling jumps, double missle, platform-canceling, combination shots, JP-canceling

grapple beam​

gotta add some stuff about the extended grapple, using it after an air dodge, FFing it, the third jump...

bombs​

something about bomb recovery, the SWD, the POF, wavebombing...



i'll work on it later

 

[D-Man]

I like this so far.
I just want to tell u something I've been working on if u dont know about it already

Triple Missle - Lay a bomb DI in one Direction then lay another bomb and Di back torward the first bomb then (this will take alot of practice I cant constently pull it off) after the first bomb explodes you will bomb jumb DI back to the second bomb but shoot a missle (its kkinda hard but not as hard as u think) then let the second bomb explode and u will bomb jump then shoot a missle but this will be a missle cancel so then u fire a missle on the ground.

Even though I wrote kinda gay. I'm not in a thinking mood right now I jus woke up but I will try to think of more techs.

 

[Matunas]

What you have so far is good. This will save on a lot of questions being asked over and over again.

Should it be broken into sections maybe?

Ex: Grapple, Bomb, Missle

Just a thought.

 

[The Cape]

Originally posted by D-Man
I like this so far.
I just want to tell u something I've been working on if u dont know about it already

Triple Missle - Lay a bomb DI in one Direction then lay another bomb and Di back torward the first bomb then (this will take alot of practice I cant constently pull it off) after the first bomb explodes you will bomb jumb DI back to the second bomb but shoot a missle (its kkinda hard but not as hard as u think) then let the second bomb explode and u will bomb jump then shoot a missle but this will be a missle cancel so then u fire a missle on the ground.

Even though I wrote kinda gay. I'm not in a thinking mood right now I jus woke up but I will try to think of more techs.

if I am thinking correctly this can be done. Pretty sure I did it once. Somewhat of a fluke.

 

[D-Man]

It can be done I've done it trust me it took me a good minute to learn what to do.
But this can be done.

 

[HugS]

Originally posted by D-Man
I like this so far.
I just want to tell u something I've been working on if u dont know about it already

Triple Missle - Lay a bomb DI in one Direction then lay another bomb and Di back torward the first bomb then (this will take alot of practice I cant constently pull it off) after the first bomb explodes you will bomb jumb DI back to the second bomb but shoot a missle (its kkinda hard but not as hard as u think) then let the second bomb explode and u will bomb jump then shoot a missle but this will be a missle cancel so then u fire a missle on the ground.

Even though I wrote kinda gay. I'm not in a thinking mood right now I jus woke up but I will try to think of more techs.

That's what joker posted on a few threads. Yes it does work. Its uses....hmmm....don't know about that one. Not many people will sit around while you lay 2 bombs and DI back and forth between them. This is very situation but i guess it can rarely be useful. Always good to see people contributing.

Well looks good Jasona....hopefully this gets stickied.

 

[Aftermath]

Have you talked to Ryoko on DC++ Jasona?

Also, i think it should be done in the sections as someone suggested before, starting with missile, then grapple, bombs (including swd), and then miscellaneous. I like how you described them, but maybe include frames for the final version. btw, what to the things set off by the ***'s mean?

I might try to do this, just for the glory that it will somehow bring to me, from the 10 people that read this forum. But yeah, once a final version is decided on, talk to Ryoko and have him sticky a thread with that in it. Also, if you're really nice, you'll let me do it because i need the gils, anyway, enough with my selfishness.

The only hard part about the sections, now that i think about it, is splitting up things that use both, like bombing once and then grappling into it, and bombs to missile cancel, the the whatever people posted.

 

[Jasona]

My first thought was just to alphabetize the terms, but if majority thinks that sections would look nicer and be better understood, then I'll change it. The ***s are for things that I'm not certain about and are questions I'd like you guys (I'm so sexist) to answer.

 

[Matunas]

The only hard part about the sections, now that i think about it, is splitting up things that use both, like bombing once and then grappling into it, and bombs to missile cancel, the the whatever people posted.

It wouldn't be to hard though. With bombing into a grapple you really aren't using the bomb to damage anyone, it is more of a grapple trick. Same with bombing into a missle, the missle is what you are really trying to use.

 

[MLRS]

i just wanna clear something up on the triple missle. you have to land after the first missle so it gets cancelled before the bomb explodes. a bomb can't hit you out of the missle animation. i did this once on accident about 5 months ago, but when i went into training mode, i couldn't do it. and it occurs to me this is why, i didn't land fast enough. so if anyone is having difficulty doing this, thats yoru problem.

yes, dual missle jump can be done with 1 homing and 1 smash, but its a good deal tougher. and you should change the entry for pillar of fire, you make it sound like it actually works worth a **** there, that would only lead to people coming in and asking for tips on how to make the pillar work, then aftermath would make fun of them till they cried, and everyone would lose except aftermath. you don't want aftermath to win, do you??

oh, and i wanna say the difference between beam jumping and beam canceling. beam jumping is using the airdodge then almost immediatly afterward use your beam and you go up higher than your screw attack can take you. beam cancelling is beam jumping where the grapple hits a wall, then when you go up high enough the top side of the grapple will hit a ceiling and you'll be broken out of the grapple, without being stunned. don't confuse this with beam jumping right next to the wall, even though you won't have a beam attached, it still gives you the airdodge stun, so this isn't very good.

 

[Eljin]

Well HugS I think you can use that triple bomb thing, when someone is recovering and you dont want to have to go out there and get them, you can have time to charge your missle and drop the bombs (note this is for ppl about to go under the stage ang up b to the ledge three missle fast and back to back is hard to dodge without dying) shoot the missles. Even if someone airdodged the should get hit by the second or third one as they're about to grab the ledge. Like I said they would try and get below the stage forcing them to time there up b just right becaus eif they overshoot and come above the ledge then they'll get a missle. For those who are knocked on more of an upward angle then spam the DMJ on them when they're coming back. Can jiggy's pound through the missles if so then they may be ok but you gotta catch them off guard. Peach's may just float over top of the DMJ or in the middle of it ( if in the middle mix it up and fire a couple till she gets close then charge shot or if she above then make sure your CS is full).

*edit* sry for it looking like crap :D

 

[TelpeFion]

About the SWD.

The way you put it, it sounds like you have to smash the stick in opposite directions during a 2-frame window. This is luckily not the case. You can hold the stick in one direction already before you hit the ground, and then smash it in the other direction when you hit the ground. This way the only hard thing is the timing... you must still have frame-perfect timing when smashing the stick. But you don't have to be lightning-fast and switch directions with one-frame intervals.

I'm no SWD master, but now I'm pretty good at doing it. I can do it maybe... 60 % of the time? Sometimes even 3 times in a row.

 

[HugS]

True eljin....but a lot of people will try to sweet spot anyways regardless if there are three missles above their head or not. I dont know...it may somehow be useful...but i just don't see it being worth the trouble or even working against most opponents. But its just me.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

oh goody, this thread's been stickied.

looks good so far. There may be some things you want to clarify on, such as the difference between beam cancleing and third jumping while next to the stage wall.

 

[MLRS]

its not ****ing third jumping, screw attack is your third jump, beam jump is when you jump with the beam, and i already said he needs to elaborate on those

 

[Jasona]

if the screw attack is your third jump, then why do you call it the screw attack? Coming out of a beam-cancel, in an unresponsive state, is still a beam-cancel.

 

[Undrdog]

The way you put it, it sounds like you have to smash the stick in opposite directions during a 2-frame window. This is luckily not the case. You can hold the stick in one direction already before you hit the ground, and then smash it in the other direction when you hit the ground. This way the only hard thing is the timing... you must still have frame-perfect timing when smashing the stick. But you don't have to be lightning-fast and switch directions with one-frame intervals.

True you can do it like this. but alot of people I know prefer to do both directions really fast. it gives you a better since of timing. I think you have a little more then 2 frames, though I'm not sure. and it really isnt that hard once you get the timing down.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

MLRS, screw you. If its so important to you, go start a cult or something. No One Cares what its called,

And Jasona we know its a beam cancel. Its just that some people may not know that you can do it two different ways.

there are some differences though. I'll use FD as an example. If you beam cancel to a responsive state, you will hit the ledge and bounce away, leaving you to bomb jump back to the stage, then sweetspot w/ the screw attack. If you beam cancel to an unreponsive state you can hug the wall and go around the edge of the stage and over the stage, then FF to the ground. Both have different advantages.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

MLRS, screw you. If its so important to you, go start a cult or something. No One Cares what its called,

And Jasona we know its a beam cancel. Its just that some people may not know that you can do it two different ways.

there are some differences though. I'll use FD as an example. If you beam cancel to a responsive state, you will hit the ledge and bounce away, leaving you to bomb jump back to the stage, then sweetspot w/ the screw attack. If you beam cancel to an unreponsive state you can hug the wall and go around the edge of the stage and over the stage, then FF to the ground. Both have different advantages.

If you do this responsively, you have now lost your grapple, and your recovery is predictable. Then, again, you obviously are in a responsive state, which is good.

doing it unresponsively means you might take your opponent by surprise and hit the ground, at worst regaining you second jump and grapple. If the hit you from where they are standing, on the edge, they will hit you into the stage and you will no longer be edgeguarded.
if they try to WD back and hit you off the edge, you'll have time for ashield or spot dodge.

but if you do this too far up the wall, you'll be way over the stage, and no matter how fast you fall, your opponent will beat the crap out of you.

beam canceling responsively while close under the edge allows you to sweet spot very easily.

So I would BC unresponsively while pretty far down, and BC responsively close to the edge.

weird, I tried to edit and got a second post.

 

[MLRS]

jasona, screw attack is the name of samus' third jump, but up b is called third jump for almost everyone (everyone who's up b actually is a jump) and chred there is never an advantage to not being able to do anything, i don't know what the **** you're talking about. if they get suprised by you falling to the ground unresponsive, they must be 4. and beam jumping against a wall is actually worse height then grappling normally and then screw attacking. the point of beam cancelling isn't to hit the ceiling, if you hit the ceiling while beam cancelling on fd, you've gone too far in. its to be able to jump and immediately attack, even after your 2nd jump is gone.

 

[Jasona]

If the screw attack should have a name that ends in jump, then it should be called the last jump. However, I do think the third jump should have a new name that doesn't contain a number and preferably doesn't contain the word jump. BRAINSTORM

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Duhh...the Rising Grapple.

 

[Undrdog]

you can also third jump down and get the same effect

 

[grayfox]

I think you should label that the extended grapple can't be done in PAL. I've had afew people ask me how to do it that are PAL gamers and i've had to explain it can't be done. Also wes' trick where he airdodges into a bomb midair (should include that) can't be done in PAL as far as i know.

 

[Undrdog]

You could go as far as to giving all non-jump / Up+B moves that allow you to go up the term Special Jump or Character Specific Jump, (CSJ). I mean Samus isnt the only one who has something like this and it would be nice to clear it up for all characters.

 

[MLRS]

what the hell? how can there be so much debate over this
look, using all your jumps is called triple jumping. with the first jump being your ground jump, your second jump being your air jump, and your third jump being your up b. thus the up b is the third jump, so you see why using third jump for anything else wouldn't work. thats why i propose the jumping by using the grapple be called a ......GRAPPLE JUMP!!!!!! can anyone find any flaw in this logic? cause i sure can't.

 

[Undrdog]

great, like that original...

J/k MLRS. sure that sounds good. and I just got donw nagging Jaosna about it. I still liek CSJ...

 

[Jasona]

I've never heard of up+b refered to as a third jump. Thats why I thought that calling this controversial tech the "third jump" would be unique. Why don't you just call the up+b, up+b? it is shorter than the third jump and its more accurate (think of ness, jigglypuff and yoshi). I don't want to keep the name, "third jump", but I haven't seen or thought of any name that I like. I'll keep at it and you guys do the same.

 

[grayfox]

This is stupid...

How about let people call it what they like? It's worked fine up till now -_-

 

[Undrdog]

well why not leave it up to MBR, CORY, M3D, and BBT? I mean they came up with the CoK. so they should be the ones to dub the name. as I said before this isnt just a Samus deal and it partakes to all of the characters with an Up-B that helps them to recover. If one of them dont see this thread then I'll ask about it in the MBR.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Just curious, Undr did you get into the BRoom by getting a premium membership?

Also for somereason it says Diamond member twice on you.

 

[Undrdog]

Actually I did donate and get Diamond Membership. and I suggest that you all do to if you can. SWF needs the love. and money

And about the double diamond thing going on, my account got corrupted or something like that. It'll be fixed eventually. sorry for the useless post.

 

[Gaiagamer]

The fact of the matter is, it can be called either way. Third Jump, up+b, screw attack, why not samus's special recovery? Does it matter? What about Peach's turnips? Should we call =_= turnips demon turnips, zombies, stitch face, what about miracles? Truth is, who cares? It's up to the individual what they want to call it. I'm not sure what the fuss about it is.

 

[Undrdog]

yeah he's right. just put in whatever you want to put in, then in the beginning of the descrption state what it is also known as.

 

[Kozzymoto]

Originally posted by Gaiagamer
The fact of the matter is, it can be called either way. Third Jump, up+b, screw attack, why not samus's special recovery? Does it matter? What about Peach's turnips? Should we call =_= turnips demon turnips, zombies, stitch face, what about miracles? Truth is, who cares? It's up to the individual what they want to call it. I'm not sure what the fuss about it is.

I agree with Gaia, whatever you call a third jump/up+b is completely irrelevent.

Anyway, Jasona you have a great guide for basic tricks that samus can pull off. Will you do another guide based on advanced tricks?

 

[Jasona]

I don't think there are enough advanced things, that aren't already in this dictionary, to make a new thread. Although, I may make a guide to help people perform them. For example, FFing whenever you missle-cancel is something you need to easily perform before you can ever think about SHFFMCing.

 

[Undrdog]

well if you dont think there are enough for a new thread then just sepereate your first post into two parts to include the advanced techs.

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

Actually, for the SWD, there is zero margin for error. You must be holding one direction on frame 41, then the opposite on frame 42. The distance you go is directly proportional to how far you tilt the stick, so even if the timing is right, if you are only tilting the stick halfway when frame 42 starts, you go half as far. Any amount of tilting is all the same on frame 41.

 

[ANTX]

hhmm... so how do you get short ones?

 

[MLRS]

Originally posted by SuperDoodleMan
. The distance you go is directly proportional to how far you tilt the stick.

GO GO GADGET READING COMPREHENSION!