Samus Basics

[Silver Sytos]

Nice, but I when i launch a missle and hit the ground, the missle doesn't come out! Unless you mean an unsmashed missle...?

 

[Fleeced]

ok, i think i understand this. What is happening is that you are hitting the ground and canceling the animation before the missile actually comes out. The missile comes out on like frame 19 or something in the air for a smash and like 26 for a nonsmash in the air. This means that for each you need to adjust your height accordingly.

Was that right?

 

[Jasona]

yes, whenever you try to missle-cancel and a missle doesn't fire, it is usually because you didn't start to fire early enough. Sometimes, it is because you don't see the missle, but thats a story for another day.

 

[Silver Sytos]

Originally posted by Jasona
yes, whenever you try to missle-cancel and a missle doesn't fire, it is usually because you didn't start to fire early enough. Sometimes, it is because you don't see the missle, but thats a story for another day.

Ohkay.. Also, where are the sweet spots of maximum damage for fair, uair, and Upsmash? I can never seem to find them, as it does like 3% and then they break through and hit me. XD Also, when are the best times to use them and such?

 

[Aftermath]

fair has no sweetspot

uair's is the last hit, because it sends them away

usmash's is also the last hit, again, because it sends them away

but that's more "sweethit", not spot, since it doesn't matter where they are for it, as long as they are still in the hitbox. unless you mean where they hit.

Fair hits in front of you, somewhere around where the flames are, not quite sure, but most likely there.

Uair hits above you mostly, kinda where your feet are spinning and where the oppponent is combo'd from.

Usmash is also tricky like the fair, there are flames, so it should hit there, and it does.

 

[Silver Sytos]

What does the superwavedash look like? In battlefield I tried it, I laid a bomb, moved left, laid another bomb, then moved right, on top of the first bomb, then immediately tapped left, and I ZOOMED to the left, it was so fast… I couldn’t do it again though… Is that what the superwavedash is supposed to look like?

 

[grayfox]

I'm not sure what you are doing but SWD involves 1 bomb. Drop a bomb, hold left (if you want to go right) and then hit right when you hit the ground and you go zooming. It should look like you are just standing still but moving as fast as say the cars in onnet or something like that. Faster than Falcon anyway.

 

[Gekigarion]

Yes, you did the SWD correctly. If you literally zoom across, you did it perfectly, in fact. Most times I fail at it because I activate it but I hold the button too long.

I accidentally changed directions once by tapping the opposite direction in the middle of a SWD. Does anyone know how long you can continue to change directions in SWD form before it runs out? (Kinda like a Really scary Dash Dance)

 

[Silver Sytos]

Originally posted by Gekigarion
Yes, you did the SWD correctly. If you literally zoom across, you did it perfectly, in fact. Most times I fail at it because I activate it but I hold the button too long.

I accidentally changed directions once by tapping the opposite direction in the middle of a SWD. Does anyone know how long you can continue to change directions in SWD form before it runs out? (Kinda like a Really scary Dash Dance)

ok, i'm assuming you can do SWD with any amount of bombs then. I couldn't do the double one consistently, I htink the one time i did do it right was fluke... I'll try it with 1 bomb though.

 

[co_and_me]

why does it matter twhat the move is called the important thing is killing your opponent!!!

 

[FalseFalco]

Originally posted by Gekigarion
Yes, you did the SWD correctly. If you literally zoom across, you did it perfectly, in fact. Most times I fail at it because I activate it but I hold the button too long.

I accidentally changed directions once by tapping the opposite direction in the middle of a SWD. Does anyone know how long you can continue to change directions in SWD form before it runs out? (Kinda like a Really scary Dash Dance)

Haha! i like that, but the scariest thing possible that ive done was either a SWD through someone then a dash attack to their behind, or a SWD grab. both of which were incredibly 1337 and i have yet to execute consistantly. pivoting with a SWD, hmm since you cant actually "dash" and you need to pivot then first you'd need nerves of steel not to get over excited and dash then after that id have to say 3 pivots on fd?

 

[AlexanderTriad]

SWD

During the SWD... What does it mean when it looks as if ur about to do the move... but u stop very short?

 

[Jasona]

As soon as I grasp SHFFMCing a little better, I'll move onto FFing the dual missle jump. After that, I plan on making a vid about all the cool stuff you can do with missles. I'm hoping to find a way to split the screen and show FFing the dual missle jump next to the normal dual missle jump and SHFFMCing next to the other kinds of MCing. In addition to a vid about missle techs, I wanted to make a vid about aerial mobility.

One thing really bugs me. I KNOW that FFing with the grapple is ALOT faster that normal FFing. I know its useful when combined with a bomb jump (A few moments after I thought of it and asked myself, "will it work?", I looked up at "HugS vs Husband 1" and got my answer). Can it ever be used casually (meaning, as often as you'd use the up+b)? or is the landing lag just too much?

 

[HugS]

Thats clever jasona, i never thought about using it casually as a form of fast falling. It seems risky, but perhaps it can be slightly situational in its uses when done a certain way. I am sure the lag is tremendous so this by no means should be a way to continue combos, but perhaps it can be used to regain ground quickly after hitting someone off the edge to begin edgeguarding. Who knows, great thinking there jasona.

 

[Jasona]

I have two ideas:
1.) use it whenever you hit someone off the edge and they hit you up.
2.) since the grapple will eventually retract, you could use it as a method of FFing into an edgegrab. Although, I think the FF ends after the grapple retracts, so you'd have to do it within some range of hieghts. I'll work on it, whenever it seems important.

EDIT: I do have another use. After you airdodge, you can grapple and FF imediately and if you do it right (timing and maximum height), you'll FF into the ground and you won't even see the grapple (still has lag though, you'll just have to decide if its more or less than the lag from waiting for the dodge to end and carry you to the ground)

 

[Patooty]

During the SWD... What does it mean when it looks as if ur about to do the move... but u stop very short?

The answer's in the thread somewhere, look for it.

I accidentally changed directions once by tapping the opposite direction in the middle of a SWD. Does anyone know how long you can continue to change directions in SWD form before it runs out? (Kinda like a Really scary Dash Dance)

...
I've never seen this before, and I'm quite skeptical of the move. Are you saying that you changed directions in the middle of a SWD? Like, you slid half way across FD and then started sliding the other way? When you switched directions did you have the full speed/distance of a full SWD or just half the speed/distance.
As I said, I'm very skeptical that this exists. Can anyone confirm this? I'll try the thing out for myself if not, but you didn't give any specifics on how to do it, except saying you tapped the opposite direction in the middle of a SWD which shouldn't have you changing directions while keeping momentum of a SWD.

 

[Jasona]

I'm hoping that this will be similar to the time I asked if anyone else experienced the pseudo-dodge of the bomb. So far, I've done this twice today and it was purely accidental. I'm not even sure what the circumstances were when I did it.

I bombed off of peach, but instead of moving up (in ball form) I moved to the side. It seemed exactly the same as every other time I'd bombed off of someone, except for the weird bounce. I was a ball that didn't seem to travel up... I just DIed to the left of peach and changed back into samus.

I was trying to wavebomb and I was screwing up the dodge. It seemed like all I did was use DI at some early stage of bombing. The second time, I chase a missle and bombed off when the missle hit peach. It may be nothing more than my imagination, but I thought that I should ask around.

Does anyone think they know what I'm talking about?

 

[Gekigarion]

Originally posted by Patooty
The answer's in the thread somewhere, look for it.





...
I've never seen this before, and I'm quite skeptical of the move. Are you saying that you changed directions in the middle of a SWD? Like, you slid half way across FD and then started sliding the other way? When you switched directions did you have the full speed/distance of a full SWD or just half the speed/distance.
As I said, I'm very skeptical that this exists. Can anyone confirm this? I'll try the thing out for myself if not, but you didn't give any specifics on how to do it, except saying you tapped the opposite direction in the middle of a SWD which shouldn't have you changing directions while keeping momentum of a SWD.

I didn't exactly go halfway, I changed directions about 1 Samus away from my starting point of the SWD. (In other words, I laid a bomb, DI'd backwards, zoomed a little past the bomb and then accidentally started moving the opposite direction suddenly.)

This actually came out from a bad habit I have in the SWD, which is smacking the control stick and then quickly letting it go to avoid holding onto it too long. What actually happens is since I just let it go, when the control stick travels back to the center position, it has too much momentum and ends up hitting a little in the opposite direction of where I originally intended to go with the SWD.

I don't know if it's full speed or not, because the SWD moves so fast I can't tell if it's full or not by the speed alone; I can only tell if I succeeded according to the distance I travelled.

 

[Patooty]

Oh! I recognize what you're talking about. I can't do it at will, but I also just did it by accident quite a few times when I was a bit newer to the SWD. I can't say that my answer is concrete, but here's my explanation behind it.

SWD happens when you hold the control stick in one direction, and the change it to the opposite direction in the next frame, I think it was frames 42-43. Well anyway. I think this happens if you pull off the SWD normally, but since you flick the control stick too hard(or fast) then when you let go of it right away, it rebounds to the other direction on it's own. All this happening within the 2-frame time limit, so this makes you go in one direction briefly, and then SWD in the other direction.

I dunno if that made sense to everyone so a brief recap using an example. You SWD by holding the control stick left, and then flicking it to the right and letting go right away. When you let go, the control stick flies back to a bit left of the neutral position, all within the 2-frame time. So you SWD to the right, and then quickly to the left. More of a theory though, not a concrete answer

 

[Fleur de Lis]

Missiles...

I've just seriously picked up Samus lately, so I've been downloading vids like crazy and trying to get down some of the techniques. I can do a lot of the things listed on this guide, but for some reason I'm having trouble firing two missiles in one jump. I'm thinking of HugS' vid vs. Wolf (as Peach) and I know that missiles are basically one of the most useful things for knocking down a float-happy Peach.
Anyway, I was wondering if someone on this thread could tell me how to spam missiles quickly like HugS does in that vid?
Thanks all.

P.S.. HugS, that music is crazy in that vid, where did you find it?

 

[grayfox]

Double missile/missile canceling. Check out the start of this thread.

 

[Fleur de Lis]

It's the firing two missiles in one jump that I have trouble with. I can't get Samus to do it, I end up firing one missile, and she lands before I can fire the second. The missile cancelling is no big deal...just short hop, fire a missile, then fire one on the ground.

 

[grayfox]

Yeah that's double missile. It is quite hard and i personally have little use for it. It looks really useful but it has alot of drawbacks too.

It must be a full jump. Shoot the first missile asap and then the second missile will fire just when you land, then repeat. Theres afew ways to do it easier. The way i do it is i put the middle of my thumb across the A button and use it as a pivot between the Y button and the B button. You can just slide your thumb from the Y and B button and do it quickly.

 

[Fleur de Lis]

Thanks. I was hoping it was just some trick I hadn't picked up on, but I guess it's just one of those hard-as-hell precision things. I really think Samus is the hardest upper-tier character to master...a lot of people talk about Fox, but I feel like Samus-playing is verging on being an art form.
By the way, on the topic of all these SWD posts lately, has anyone seen the team battle of Isai and Ken vs. Wes and Azen? It's possibly the best team battle I've ever seen, and Wes SWD like 6 times throughout the match, and makes use of it in a pretty slick way. He also spikes someone off of the screen, which was pretty **** cool.

 

[Jasona]

just to keep things clear:

Originally posted by Jasona
double-missle --- after missle-canceling, fire a missle. This reduces the time between missles, a temporary increase in her rate of fire.
dual missle jump --- firing two missles in one jump.

pretty soon I'm going to add "FF dual missle jump"... meaning you FF the second missle. It may seem absurd, but if you fire the first missle early enough, then you will regain control at about the same height at a SH. From that point its as simple as a SHFFMC.

 

[HugS]

Fleur, there is a trick to it. Once you know it, then there is the task of knowing when to use it, and who to use it against. PM me.

 

[co_and_me]

on the dual missle jump U use both jumps right? Cause if your just using the first one i obviously missed the point. I mean didnt think it was possible to shoot 2 missles off the first jump but if so maybe there is more use to it.

 

[HugS]

Co + Me, we are talking about shooting 2 missles in the air, in 1 jump.

Doing 2 missles in 2 jumps isn't even worth mentioning.

 

[The_Krumber]

jasona, your techs are becoming more impossible by the second. If you can show me a vid of doing the Jasona-dual-missle-jump-fastfall-missle cancle thingy, i will be amazed.

seriously, samus doesn't need THAT many techs to be played well.

wavedash-ftilt
wavedash-fsmash
bomb recovery
VERY occasional beam cancle
VERY occasional super wavedash
missle cancling
occasional double missle if you want it
wavedash-off-of-platform-then-missle-cancle

actually, that is quite a lot, but only ones that are absolutely needed to play a great samus are the wavedashing techs and the missle cancling techs

 

[Jasona]

Almost every character, with a projectile, can cancel it. Every character can WD into tilts and smashes.
IMO--->
MCing is slow due to the height of her SH and the speed of her FF (not neccessarily refering to the SHFFMC). DMJing has a big hole between the missles and the first missle is shot high. Bomb recovery is definitely a slow process. SWD has a slow start-up. All-in-all, samus could really use some faster moves.

Don't worry too much about FFDMJing, it only works if you can SHFFMC the second missle, which only works if you can fire the first missle early enough to regain control at the same height as a SH. SHFFMCing is something I can only do 50 percent of the time, the rest of the time I get SH bombs. FFDMJing is something I've only done 4 times.

However, there is one thing I think you can help me with and thats wavebombing. I'd practice it, but I'm working on my sheilding and l-canceling reflexes. The idea is to drop a bomb so that it explodes as soon as it exists, WD as soon as the explosion pushes you, and repeat. It's similar to the pillar of fire and absolutely possible, but unless you have awsome timing skills, it is slow. To help you get these awsome timing skills, practice WBing on the pillars of brinstar (or are the pillars in the depths... I have no idea what name goes to which level).

 

[grayfox]

Speed doesn't=instant win. Your techniques give speed to missile canceling but they are also:

Hard to do
Predictible
Easy to avoid

Every character can WD and cancel projectiles, thats true. So i guess we should be seeing lots of Ness' taking tourneys by WDing off of the edge and canceling the fwd b off of the edge then. Other characters can do them but that doesn't stop it being the basis (and thus most important part) of Samus' game.

 

[SabreAnt]

Dont wreck this thread with pointless sarcasm. Samus' primary weakness is friccin speed. Why do you think her worst mathcups are Fox, Falcon and other speed freaks? Because she's slower. Top 10 ranking player list on the world would see more speedy characters, and probably no Samus players. While its true that mind games and other assorted factors are very important to win, being at the helm of a fast character already gives your opponent a one-up on you, if you are both relatively equal.

My friends Fox is trouble when he's in close. Why? Because he's fast. Well duh you might say. But thats the point. Speed = problems. And if you think those tactics are hard to do, predictable and easy to avoid, then fine, but dont poopoo other people suggestion and then present nothing better yourself. I play PAL smash, so I cant do 100% of things listed here, but I dont find anything thats possible to accomplish too hard to do. Samus is a user friendly character, and I have no trouble doing this stuff. Sure some of it is situational, but then again, smash is a very situational game.

Just to add something to the thread, Samus has a small selection of speedy moves, which we all know, but some of us might not use them all. They are:

Up-B
Neutral air
Wimpy jab
Down smash
Up air
Back air
Forward tilt

7 fast moves to fight speed with speed. These are all fast execution and can get in before the enemy does. Most useful time for Up-B imo is when Fox and Falco are trying to heap pressure on you with drills and reflector combo attempts. Up-B out of sheild disrupts them and can make them hesitant, thus changing the pace of the match, which is where Samus gains ground. If you control the pace, or at least influence it in your favour, you have a good advantage.

Jab best used in conjunction with Down smash since both are speedy, but on its own its still good. Interruption is really all you need.

The others are kinda self explanatory, but I find that a lot of Samus dont use Uair. I find lots of uses for it, perhaps for the simple fact that most people dont expect to see it. Honestly though, muuuch more useful if that last knockaway part hits.

*edit* On further inspection I'll say this in your defense grayfox, you clearly like Naruto, so you're cool anyway lol

 

[grayfox]

Originally posted by SabreAnt
Dont wreck this thread with pointless sarcasm. Samus' primary weakness is friccin speed. Why do you think her worst mathcups are Fox, Falcon and other speed freaks? Because she's slower. Top 10 ranking player list on the world would see more speedy characters, and probably no Samus players. While its true that mind games and other assorted factors are very important to win, being at the helm of a fast character already gives your opponent a one-up on you, if you are both relatively equal.

My friends Fox is trouble when he's in close. Why? Because he's fast. Well duh you might say. But thats the point. Speed = problems. And if you think those tactics are hard to do, predictable and easy to avoid, then fine, but dont poopoo other people suggestion and then present nothing better yourself. I play PAL smash, so I cant do 100% of things listed here, but I dont find anything thats possible to accomplish too hard to do. Samus is a user friendly character, and I have no trouble doing this stuff. Sure some of it is situational, but then again, smash is a very situational game.

Just to add something to the thread, Samus has a small selection of speedy moves, which we all know, but some of us might not use them all. They are:

Up-B
Neutral air
Wimpy jab
Down smash
Up air
Back air
Forward tilt

7 fast moves to fight speed with speed. These are all fast execution and can get in before the enemy does. Most useful time for Up-B imo is when Fox and Falco are trying to heap pressure on you with drills and reflector combo attempts. Up-B out of sheild disrupts them and can make them hesitant, thus changing the pace of the match, which is where Samus gains ground. If you control the pace, or at least influence it in your favour, you have a good advantage.

Jab best used in conjunction with Down smash since both are speedy, but on its own its still good. Interruption is really all you need.

The others are kinda self explanatory, but I find that a lot of Samus dont use Uair. I find lots of uses for it, perhaps for the simple fact that most people dont expect to see it. Honestly though, muuuch more useful if that last knockaway part hits.

*edit* On further inspection I'll say this in your defense grayfox, you clearly like Naruto, so you're cool anyway lol

You missed my point. It wasn't just pointless sarcasm it was a point made with the Ness thing. Don't get me wrong, of course speed is important. But this game has far far more too it than just speed. There are plenty of factors that come into it. Thats my point. For my points stated above thats why it's not useful, if they weren't factors then it would be a great technique. SHFFMC does provide good speed but is made redundant by the points in my last post. My point wasn't "speed isn't needed you just need to be smart" it was "speed is important but not important enough to leave yourself open".

Away from that i would like to say that Fox isn't one of the main Samus counters. Samus can destroy him just as bad as Fox destroys Samus. It's an even match up.

I also use PAL, infact i'm so far seen as the best Samus in Europe. Unless you would like too prove me wrong, you can come to RoS2 in Sweeden, everyones coming, even Oro. Unless your'e a Aussie then whatever lol. Smash isn't a very situational game and all moves aren't very situational. That's why you see Peach players doing down smash more than doing their counter. SWD ect is so situational its not worthy of being mentioned in every **** thread on this board. It's not that important!

"And if you think those tactics are hard to do, predictable and easy to avoid, then fine, but dont poopoo other people suggestion and then present nothing better yourself."

Me giving my opinion on its usability is something in itself. You wouldn't have provided anything either until you clearly tried to not be a hypocrite by giving some pointless and obvious info at the end of your post.

Onto your list of fast moves. Yes they are all fast but Samus' moves do not lack speed it is herself that is slow. All her moves are actually quite fast aside from afew, say up tilt.

And yeah Narutos awesome = D

 

[TelpeFion]

Also, I would like to mention that Samus' dtilt is just as fast as her dsmash. The dtilt also has more range. Doesn't make it a better attack though...

 

[SabreAnt]

Lol ok. I can see what you were trying to say. I'm in Australia, so... yeah. =p It wasnt really pointless info, after all.. this is "Samus Basics" I know Samus can do some nasty stuff to Fox, but after its all said and done, who's on top of the tier list?? =o

I actually think Yoshi is a very challenging fight for Samus, since Yoshi lives forever, (not in NTSC) and can actually kill Samus at reasonable % unlike a lot of people.

"speed is important but not important enough to leave yourself open".

That makes some more sense, I didn't really get that message earlier. But then, I would agree with you anyway. I also think that SWD is pretty good. People dont see it often, and its not easy, so you kinda get a bit of mental leverage sometimes over some people. You know.. doing the fancy stuff. Its not a lot, and some people wouldnt be affected. But theres at least room for 1 in every match. Even if only to keep up a reputation for looking **** good ^_~

Oh, and I wouldnt say Down Tilt is worthless, but the lag after its over kinda rules it out of the 'fast move' category. If you miss, then its: "What's that Samus? YOU WANT ME TO UP SMASH YOU??! Ok!" Or something similar.

 

[BUHO]

Sounds good I didn't know ALL of Samus' best techniques up to this point. Trying to get her to be a good backup character.

One simple suggested tactic (maybe this was mentioned but I was too lazy to read all the posts on this thread): to mix up your mindgames, rather than perhaps shorthopping a neutral aerial, drop a bomb, let that explode and then attack with a neutral aerial. It tends to catch players off guard from my experience.

 

[T_MontanaSSBM]

The triple missle is a very good idea

 

[Joker]

Sorry Montana im not trying to bust your balls , its just that you were last to post in some of the threads i look at.....but to clear that up and you can ask any good samus (i.e. hugs, Jasona) that the Tripple missle is a load of **** to put it simply. It's probly the Thee most situational technique in the game itself so yeah its not useful, i wish it was but its not- SYKO

OH!!!! and another thing,....anybody that wants to talk **** on the SWD....come holla at me the SWD King, its a new title but it was given to me by a couple of ppl from the boards once they saw me play at GS2, and dont go looking for my placing to see if im anygood cause i didnt enter just say something and we can talk, I'll show you *******s how un-situational that move is, its a normal thing for me-SYKO

 

[BIG. G]

lol this ***** joker is funny

 

[T_MontanaSSBM]

ok i get i make sure everthing i say is worth writting dont get soo mad