Sakurai: "If we Direct Smash ONLY at The Competitive Players, It Will Have No Future."

[THK]

as much as i love this mode, i do agree whith you. the random stats and getting the equipment is a pain in the butt. it could take a year or so for everyone in the smash 4 scene to get most of the equipment and balance the stats, but it's still worth testing!

I'm not ruling out the future of Smash 4. One of the biggest things Smash has going for it is various options. Imagine if we couldn't turn off items, lol.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

So many people entittled to their opinions. Welcome to the sad, ugly part of the smash community fellas, where everyone is a much better game designer than those who have dedicated their lives to it and where opinions are fact and melee is the way to go.

"Sakurai is a ******!", "Sakurai has no idea what smash is about!", "I wich they fire the man and put someone else". I am simply in awe at how childish and ******** these statements are.

Sakurai is right. Smash was never intended to be a competitive game because it was never envisioned to be such. The game has never, ever, been programed with a competitive mindset... we as gamers took it and shifted it from a party game to a more competitive one, however Sakurai is not in the wrong here... he is not the one completely warping the original vision of the game, it is us who are completelly disregarding the original design of the game.

We dont want items, we want more neutral-like stages, we want more balance, we want more speed, we want more hit-stun and shield-stun, we want more combos, we want more features, we want.... jesus christ do we want everything...

Sakurai is right. If it is a competitive game what you want, you might as well play Melee or P:M, wich IS a blalant "f. you" to Sakurai envision of the game and designing skills.

We might as well do what every other figthing game franchise does... rehashing the same stuff over and over, only amping graphics and making slight tweaks here and there, obviously, always with Melee on our minds because thats the status quo we have created for ourselves. Super smash melee apha edition, super smash melee ultra edition, super smash melee 4 wiiU edition

Bah..

Why cant we love the game for what it is?, why cant we play the game wathever way we want without having to point our fingers at each other?

Smash4 might not be as competitive as people would like it to be, but it is at least a fair game, balance-wise. There are no crazy inputs nor steep learning curves but it is still a game that holds true for all the stuff that makes a figthing game a figthing game. Zoning, footsies, reading your opponent...

You're right but what confuses me is this question, "What is Sakurai's vision?". Tbh, if Sakurai didn't want Smash to be a competitive game with complicated inputs Melee wouldn't have ever existed. He claimed in an interview that he was aware of wave dashing before he released Melee so why is he flip flopping now and saying he wants to make a casual experience? My claim is that Sakurai's vision is skewed or somewhere down the line of Smash games Sakurai's vision changed (this confuses Sakurai supporters and Smash supporters).

You can't blame the people on smashboards raging because it was shown that Sakurai is capable of making a competitive game but he chooses to make the game casual (which is an insult to competitive players). True, in terms of sales making a competitive fighter as opposed to a party game yields no merit but having the director of Smash go from Melee to Brawl only shows his disgust for the competitive scene. What I want in a Smash game is where both the competitive and casual scene are both acknowledged and even though Smash 4 doesn't necessarily do that, it's a step in the right direction.

Tweaking a game that has a highly positive reception isn't a bad thing, I don't know where that presumption came from when it's been proven that games that changes too much has a high chance of receiving negative reception (ex. Call of Duty, Sonic, and Smash; most notably Melee to Brawl).

"Why cant we love the game for what it is?, why cant we play the game wathever way we want without having to point our fingers at each other?"

I wish people acted this optimistically but I can understand why people are angry (the title of the thread doesn't help the issue either). If you don't like the game, don't support it...it's so simple yet people are aggressive towards Sakurai because they need to direct their anger onto someone to make themselves feel better.

"Smash4 might not be as competitive as people would like it to be, but it is at least a fair game, balance-wise."

Depends on your definition of fair and balanced. There are a couple characters that are considerably bad compared to the cast (most notably little mac post patch, ike, and shulk). I'm not saying that all fighters are balanced but in terms of Smash, Project M is the only game to be close to most balanced and the fact that Sakurai is going to stop patching Smash 4 worries me.

 

[RanserSSF4]

I'm not ruling out the future of Smash 4. One of the biggest things Smash has going for it is various options. Imagine if we couldn't turn off items, lol.

i know dude, but i'm just saying this mode will also help the smash 4 scene grow.

 

[<π]

Can all of triple A game designers please raise their hands?

It blows my mind that people act like Sakurai has no idea what he is talking about.

 

[KiTsuNe_23]

Such a simple request and yet impossible for so many ppl to do. Sad, isn't it?

You're right but what confuses me is this question, "What is Sakurai's vision?". Tbh, if Sakurai didn't want Smash to be a competitive game with complicated inputs Melee wouldn't have ever existed. He claimed in an interview that he was aware of wave dashing before he released Melee so why is he flip flopping now and saying he wants to make a casual experience? My claim is that Sakurai's vision is skewed or somewhere down the line of Smash games Sakurai's vision changed (this confuses Sakurai supporters and Smash supporters).

You can't blame the people on smashboards raging because it was shown that Sakurai is capable of making a competitive game but he chooses to make the game casual (which is an insult to competitive players). True, in terms of sales making a competitive fighter as opposed to a party game yields no merit but having the director of Smash go from Melee to Brawl only shows his disgust for the competitive scene. What I want in a Smash game is where both the competitive and casual scene are both acknowledged and even though Smash 4 doesn't necessarily do that, it's a step in the right direction.

Tweaking a game that has a highly positive reception isn't a bad thing, I don't know where that presumption came from when it's been proven that games that changes too much has a high chance of receiving negative reception (ex. Call of Duty, Sonic, and Smash; most notably Melee to Brawl).

"Why cant we love the game for what it is?, why cant we play the game wathever way we want without having to point our fingers at each other?"

I wish people acted this optimistically but I can understand why people are angry (the title of the thread doesn't help the issue either). If you don't like the game, don't support it...it's so simple yet people are aggressive towards Sakurai because they need to direct their anger onto someone to make themselves feel better.

"Smash4 might not be as competitive as people would like it to be, but it is at least a fair game, balance-wise."

Depends on your definition of fair and balanced. There are a couple characters that are considerably bad compared to the cast (most notably little mac post patch, ike, and shulk). I'm not saying that all fighters are balanced but in terms of Smash, Project M is the only game to be close to most balanced and the fact that Sakurai is going to stop patching Smash 4 worries me.

I've said it many times today but, since people are still not reading all the comments, that sentence was translated incorrectly. Sakurai has NO INTENTION (emphasis, not anger) in getting rid of the competitive side of Smash. ONLY that as a game designer focusing everything on only the competitive side of Smash would kill it. I.e. completely cutting out the casual side would end Smash as a whole.

 

[THK]

The thread title really needs a change. This community flies off the handle way too easily.

 

[platomaker]

I'm gonna wrap this up for this will be the last time I respond to you. You said that Brawl and Smash 4 are not rush down smash games. Your argument behind that is because of DHD being designed to be a "camper" according to you. So.... that's it? Because YOU FEEL that one character was designed to camp, because the only "effective" DHD players camped, you feel the entire game is defensive? Because that's all I got from what you said. And look, if I insulted you in anyway, I apologize. I don't mean to insult, but just because I enjoy to debate doesn't mean I have an attitude problem. That is all.

I don't think you read any of my other comments at all have you? There's a few insightful tidbits about how offensive the game can get when it gets that way, but it allows for more defensive tactics as well. The game has both and highlights both really well. As I've stated twice, You can't go in fullcocked thinking you're going to decimate with an all-offensive plan in those games because you can't.

Here's where I say, stop twisting my words around, this is the statement I'd like to claim: "To be good at Smash 4, you truly have to appreciate what you can do and what you're opponents can do".

The instance with the edgehogging not being a thing, that's a device to force players to act. Its designed to break up the "established patterns" of melee, and the defensive stalemate of brawl. DHD is a camper, that is his style, though I could be wrong, but I don't think I am on this one.
I mentioned him before since you stated that its hard to camp in this game, which it isn't. The entire game isn't campy, but that is NOT to say that some can't do so or some aren't made for it. What about Snake in brawl? Can you not see any similarities? If you ignore what your opponent is capable of doing and what he's doing wrong then how can you become a better player?

You can prove me wrong with a match if you'd like. But I don't play DHD and never stated the entire game was defensive, just that you CAN camp in the game. Look back to your original statement with this in mind.

 

[uTheJoKeR]

We need a new Director. But, because Nintendo is so oblivious with the community Iwata isn't going to realize it. All he's going to know is that it makes money and that's that. Sakurai is a ****ing ******. He says what he says, yet Melee is proof of it. Melee is still alive ONLY BECAUSE of the competitive scene. A decade later and the game is even more popular than it ever was. If he's going to downplay his game like that and the higher ups don't let it sink in then when the competitive scene disowns the newer franchise's It won't make as much money as it used to.

 

[KiTsuNe_23]

The thread title really needs a change. This community flies off the handle way too easily.

I tried Tweeting at the guy. But since he got his "big scoop" only a few day's after becoming a writer on the boards, I doubt he will do anything.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

I've said it many times today but, since people are still not reading all the comments, that sentence was translated incorrectly. Sakurai has NO INTENTION (emphasis, not anger) in getting rid of the competitive side of Smash. ONLY that as a game designer focusing everything on only the competitive side of Smash would kill it. I.e. completely cutting out the casual side would end Smash as a whole.

Where did I say that Sakurai was getting rid of the competitive side of Smash? Hell, he didn't even create the competitive side of Smash...the Smash community did.

All I'm saying is Sakurai caters more to the casual side of Smash than the competitive side instead of focusing on both equally. In my opinion, Smash 4 is 80% casual and 20% competitive and that's me being lenient.

 

[platomaker]

i know dude, but i'm just saying this mode will also help the smash 4 scene grow.

actually, what was this mode again?

 

[uTheJoKeR]

I still can't believe he said go play a different game I guess better look for something else to invest into.

He ****ed up real hard on that quote. He better redeem himself quick or else he's gunna really be the most hated piece of **** in this community. Then again, he won't care. It made the money.

 

[KiTsuNe_23]

We need a new Director. But, because Nintendo is so oblivious with the community Iwata isn't going to realize it. All he's going to know is that it makes money and that's that. Sakurai is a ****ing ******. He says what he says, yet Melee is proof of it. Melee is still alive ONLY BECAUSE of the competitive scene. A decade later and the game is even more popular than it ever was. If he's going to downplay his game like that and the higher ups don't let it sink in then when the competitive scene disowns the newer franchise's It won't make as much money as it used to.

As I posted not 5 minutes ago. The sentence that everyone is misinterpreting was mistranslated. He has no intentions of getting rid of the competitive side of Smash. He just doesn't want it to be the only side of Smash.

 

[RanserSSF4]

actually, what was this mode again?

you use smooth lander equipment (equip it to every character), go to special smash, set gravity to heavy, and play 4 stock 8 minutes. you should equip other equipment to balance the stats better!

 

[platomaker]

He ****ed up real hard on that quote. He better redeem himself quick or else he's gunna really be the most hated piece of **** in this community. Then again, he won't care. It made the money.

In reality though, this really sets this game apart from others. It may seem like he's telling you to go play other games, and you should every once in a while but you'll grow to appreciate what he and his team made more for it. There isn't many well known games like it, and to make a successful sequel of it too? He knows you'll be back one way or another.

 

[Mechageo]

Nope. I speak Japanese and read through the translated part. This is accurate.

Any chance you'll translate the rest for us?

 

[Zoa]

Just downed two cups of coffee. Now it feels like someone lit a fire under my ass. I'm good to go.

 

[TheFoolishJester]

As long as a dedicated fanbase and hackers/modders exist, I'm not worried. We can rebuild smash to be stronger, faster, and better.

 

[platomaker]

Just downed two cups of coffee. Now it feels like someone lit a fire under my ***. I'm good to go.

pepto bismal might help you in a hour. Caffeine abuse is re... holy crap i was suppose to be sleeping for my night shift.

 

[Trunks159]

I might be missing but it doesn't seem like THAT much work is put into smash, at least not enough for Sakurai to be so exausted. This game too wat like 6 years to release, which is plenty of time. I guess I'm missing something.(response to his Mewtwo comment)

Even though it may seem like he doesn't care about us, Smash 4 did pretty well imo competitively. For Glory mode, including Lv 9 cpus, the fantastic balance, patches, and Omega stages are great strides.

Basically, don't listen to a word he says and play the game.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

The comment about the competitive scene was mistranslated. Please read through the comments to find mine, and others post on this matter.

Had to search through your recent activity to find the translation; with the obvious click bait title of this thread these pages multiply by the second.

Still, what you posted makes sense and in better line with smart business practices. I can also agree that if smash focused solely on the competitive side I don't think it would be as successful. I enjoy playing the game with my son now and than so I appreciate that a 4 year old can (somewhat) manipulate a character to at least fight back with earnest.

 

[Cloudy]

Wow did people forget this is HIS game and he can do whatever he wants to it? His ideas was to make a fighting party game that ANYONE can play, not only pros.
Now we have people saying they should fire him? Excuse me? Its his freaking franchise and, since Nintendo likes how he makes the game, if he ever gets replaced the game will still not be a competitive one, because that's what Sakurai and NINTENDO wants.

Stop trying to force this game to be what you want it to be and stop getting angry at his creator for not being what you want it to be. You sound like spoiled little kids.

I'm not saying we should worship Sakurai, but at have respect for the mand and be thankful for what he has given us.

If he wants HIS game to be a party/fighting game for everyone to enjoy, then let him make his game the way he wants it to be.

 

[Zoa]

Well, back to edgehog thing. The new feature seems more like a loss than a gain. If someone goes deep, grabs the ledge, and the opponent grabs it after you, then you're open for punishment. I've had this happen numerous times until someone mentioned I should stall in the air, then grab the ledge after them. That seems counterproductive to what edgehogging should be.

 

[Deleted member]

I genuinely think he's right.

 

[Zoa]

Wow did people forget this is HIS game and he can do whatever he wants to it? His ideas was to make a fighting party game that ANYONE can play, not only pros.
Now we have people saying they should fire him? Excuse me? Its his freaking franchise and, since Nintendo likes how he makes the game, if he ever gets replaced the game will still not be a competitive one, because that's what Sakurai and NINTENDO wants.

Stop trying to force this game to be what you want it to be and stop getting angry at his creator for not being what you want it to be. You sound like spoiled little kids.

I'm not saying we should worship Sakurai, but at have respect for the mand and be thankful for what he has given us.

If he wants HIS game to be a party/fighting game for everyone to enjoy, then let him make his game the way he wants it to be.

Then that's kind of the exact opposite of how he tells us we should play how we want.

 

[D.A. RAFA]

Other movement options such as dash dancing, techniques that speed up the game (l and z cancelling), both of which are present in the first two games. Another thing that I personally miss is the ability to play how I want to play without being at a disadvantage from the start. I'm a very aggressive player, so I don't do too well in the defense-oriented environments of Brawl or Smash 4. In Melee and 64, you can play your character however you want (in most match ups) and still do well if you know what you're doing.

Oh I SEE what went wrong here. This was the original post that I disagreed with and because it was you that quoted me responding w/ DHD, I immediately thought this was the same person I quoted and disagreed with w/o going back and checking to see if you are the same person. MY mistake. My beef isn't w/ you. I agree w/ a lot of what you were saying actually. It was this guy's statement of "I'm a very aggressive player, so I don't do too well in the defense-oriented environments of Brawl or Smash 4." My Bad Dude. I take full responsibility for being an idiot this time. lol.

 

[GunBuster]

Crazy man that is out of touch with reality. Why do people like Sakurai and praise him as some god of all game developers again?

Last I checked, Melee was a perfectly fine casual game and it was also great competitively. That's why it was so good. Making the game better competitively and not a defense campfest doesn't magically filter out casuals from playing it.

all competitive games are about getting good. It doesn't matter if we're talking about super turbo or smash bros or f-zero or a kart racing game.

This applies to casuals too. If you're a casual, you still inherently want to beat your opponent. You can't just scream "smash is a party game!" and somehow the competitive aspect is absent.

The only difference between casuals and tourneyfags is how far they are willing to go to get good. But the ideology is still the same. Nobody, not even casuals, likes it when competitive games aren't about who played the best. People ***** about blue shells and whatever bull**** mechanics happen in mario party games, even.

this basically boils down to "Smash has no competitive future because I am unwilling to give it one!"

I'm at a complete loss. Do casuals and sakurai think tourneyfags play smash for the sake of competition and competition alone? Did it never hit anyone to think "man maybe these [insert buzzword]s are having fun playing it like this"?

goddamn. I see why you rosterguys are calling him a hack. It's one thing when some internet ****** is under some impression that we play for **** waving purposes only but christ the creator itself thinks this. How ****ing blind can one man be? tourneyfags LOVE HIS GAME but "shut up you're loving it wrong".

Yes, I'm mad. This **** is absolutely asinine.

I hope someone who's not Sakurai directs the next Smash.

 

[Shell]

Someone asked me on Reddit why I was offended by this whole mess... here is my response, reposted for convenience.

-----

Why am I offended?

Let's take a look back at the marketing for Smash 4 for a moment, specifically the Smash Bros. Invitational. Nintendo aimed this directly at the dedicated, competitive audience. They invited some of the top players from around the world, and went so far as to carefully appropriate Smash fan lingo such as "get hype" and "no johns". Sakurai himself flew out to watch over it.

In many ways the Invitational itself ended up being something of a joke to competitive players, with free-for-all item-on fights and commentators clearly struggling to find anything legitimately hype enough to get excited for. However, this was still a landmark achievement -- competitive, tournament-style smash, which had grown up for years as a grass roots effort without Nintendo, and sometimes even in spite of Nintendo (see close calls for C&Ds on streaming Melee), was now being officially acknowledged by Nintendo. This was a massive sea change that suggested a future where Nintendo might support competitive players! "Give us your feedback! We're listening!" the Smash 4 booth managers cried. The whole community was electrified with the hope that Smash, long the black sheep in the eyes of Nintendo & the fighting game community, could finally become Legit.

Where are we now?

We've gotten one balance patch.. though Diddy is already looming on the horizon as a potentially overcentralizing threat. Emergent advanced techniques are being actively trimmed from the game. Omega Mode, though a nice gesture, is fundamentally flawed because it strips every stage of platforms. Nintendo is apparently supporting Apex financially, though who can really say how long into the future that support will last.

That electric hope that spread through the competitive community after the announcement of the Invitational is wavering. We hoped that even if Nintendo wouldn't budge on certain game mechanics it would at least open up a direct, two way channel of communication with the community a la Capcom. But that hasn't happened. Instead, at this critical point we get a statement from the game's director that essentially admits that, sure, we can play it tourney-style if we reeaally want and that's just fine but that it'll never be truly competitive, and that we're better off just leaving to play other games.

When you consider Smash 4's marketing approach of wooing competitive players with hints of support and communication, reading a statement like that just really takes the wind out of your sails. You realize how empty all the marketing was, how the community was used to drive sales. In my opinion anyone who isn't at least a little offended by this hasn't been paying close enough attention.

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

We need a new Director. But, because Nintendo is so oblivious with the community Iwata isn't going to realize it. All he's going to know is that it makes money and that's that. Sakurai is a ****ing ******. He says what he says, yet Melee is proof of it. Melee is still alive ONLY BECAUSE of the competitive scene. A decade later and the game is even more popular than it ever was. If he's going to downplay his game like that and the higher ups don't let it sink in then when the competitive scene disowns the newer franchise's It won't make as much money as it used to.

How about you reread what he said before you call him out of his name. Melee is not the same competitive as a game like street fighter, anyone can pick up Smash and just play it. Smash has more casual players than competitive players. Like Sakurai said if you looking for smash to only a competitive game go play another fighting game. Smash was made for casual play inmind you guys just made it competitive.

 

[gridatttack]

This game too wat like 6 years to release

Development actually started when kid icarus uprising was finished.
So they had like 3~ years of development.

 

[platomaker]

Well, back to edgehog thing. The new feature seems more like a loss than a gain. If someone goes deep, grabs the ledge, and the opponent grabs it after you, then you're open for punishment. I've had this happen numerous times until someone mentioned I should stall in the air, then grab the ledge after them. That seems counterproductive to what edgehogging should be.

From that choose stages that don't have tapered ledges, megaman's stage, Duck Hunt's stage, Wii Fit's stage, any stage that has walls running down will help prevent that auto latch from happening- its a problem for me too. If you're not sure then just wait for them to grab the ledge to keep em out or use projectiles.

 

[JagoTheTiger]

I think he meant he will not make any games focused on the competitive scene. like how capcom did with Street Fighter.

 

[Cloudy]

Then that's kind of the exact opposite of how he tells us we should play how we want.

You can play this game however you want it to, but remember it wasn't made to be a pro fighting game, so if you wanna play it like that, then do so, but don't get mad when it has some flaws playing it like that.

 

[NiderQueen]

Has no future as a competitive game?

Well then, I suggest removing For Fun and For Glory and adding these new modes.View attachment 34379

For Ike For Ike

 

[Reader]

This game is good and playable; it will be played as a competitive game and it will have future whether Sakurai likes it or not.

 

[KiTsuNe_23]

Where did I say that Sakurai was getting rid of the competitive side of Smash? Hell, he didn't even create the competitive side of Smash...the Smash community did.

All I'm saying is Sakurai caters more to the casual side of Smash than the competitive side instead of focusing on both equally. In my opinion, Smash 4 is 80% casual and 20% competitive and that's me being lenient.

All of what you are saying is probably true. My one and only point is that there is nothing in the interview (which I have read all of) that proves your point.

I'm not disagreeing with you just saying that the article doesn't prove any of it.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

I might be missing but it doesn't seem like THAT much work is put into smash, at least not enough for Sakurai to be so exausted. This game too wat like 6 years to release, which is plenty of time. I guess I'm missing something.(response to his Mewtwo comment)

Even though it may seem like he doesn't care about us, Smash 4 did pretty well imo competitively. For Glory mode, including Lv 9 cpus, the fantastic balance, patches, and Omega stages are great strides.

Basically, don't listen to a word he says and play the game.

I'm not a game developer so don't quote me on this but most games generally take a year or two in development before being released. Smash 4 was confirmed to be in development since April 2012 so being finished in 2014 was expected. In the Brawl days, Sakurai put it upon himself to do majority of the work when he had a team to support him so him being exhausted was explainable. This time he worked alongside his team and Namco Bandai to have a finished product but he was put into a rushed scenario most likely due to the Wii U's dismal sales so him being exhausted is also understandable and since we don't know what Sakurai or his team does for the game we can only speculate on how much effort he puts in it.

I think people assume that Smash 4 is doing well competitively because they are comparing it to Brawl which was the lowest of the low. For Glory was a nice touch, lvl 9 cpus always existed, the game isn't perfectly balanced but it's a step up from Melee and Brawl, and I really enjoy the option of Omega stages. Sakurai didn't flat out ignore competitive players, but the competitive scene doesn't care for additional game options, what they mostly care about is gameplay and some feel that Smash 4 doesn't give them what they desire.

 

[Chez G.]

Wow...if you think about it, Sakurai makes a whole lot of sense. As much as I love playing Project M competitively, sometimes I get this feeling that I'm only on the bottom of the totem pole. It doesn't stop me from playing it though, but it concerns me from time to time.

With Smash 4, I actually appreciate that it's pretty easy to pick up and still kick some tail. Although, I'm probably saying that because I've played Smash Bros for years...

Either way, I like Project M and Smash 4, with PM being slightly more preferable. They both feel good in their own way. I can't really say the same with Brawl. It's somewhat hard to go back to it from PM and even SSB4.

The only thing that I disliked about what Sakurai said is that Sm4sh is competitively doomed and people should seek other fighting games. Smash 4 still has a lot more going for it than Brawl had. Besides, seeing your favorite character putting in work in a competitive fashion is something unrivaled in traditional fighting games, not to mention the amount of freedom.

In most fighting games, you can only jump once, crouch and move left or right. Also when jumping, you are committed to one direction and one aerial attack. In Smash, you can jump two or more times (depending on the character), move left and right (in the air and on the ground), crouch, and perform at least two or more aerials.

These are probably the only things Sakurai overlooked about competitive Smash: its diverse and iconic roster and more freedom when compared to traditional fighting games.

Ugh, a pretty long post, I know.

 

[Jucchan]

Really though, why hasn't this article been taken down yet? It clearly works in the negative in regards to generating useful discussions because of the mistranslation that makes up the click-bait title. Is there any way to contact the writer of this article?

 

[MrGameandBalls]

Sakurai is ********, a game doesn't need a **** load of inputs to be hardcore or competitive. Melee isn't designed to have a lot of inputs either and guess what? It's a great competitive game. Instead of removing every tech he could have made them easier or something if he's that concerned about new players.

Retarted, yet I'm prettyy sure he can make a game better than you.