Sakurai: "If we Direct Smash ONLY at The Competitive Players, It Will Have No Future."

[JayTheUnseen]

Have you ever made a game.

Sakurai to most of these people:
Have you ever made a game?

 

[neohopeSTF]

I feel like to all those people saying a new director would pander to fans of Melee, a new director would try to emulate whatever Sakurai did with his work.

 

[Joe73191]

We already have a mode in Smash 4 that pretty much makes the game as fast as Melee. that's Smooth Lander Heavy Gravity! Not going, some of your statements make you sound like a Melee Elitist. Not saying you are, it's just the way you commented your points makes you sound like one!

People like to throw that term "meleelitist" around as a pejorative, I don't really know what people think of when they use it, but if it is someone who feels that melee is by and large the best smash game and that going away from that hurts the game rather than helps it. I would where that moniker proudly. Too often people don't want to be pegged as something that others see as a bad thing. Everyone is scared of offending someone. You sound like you want to call me it but are afraid to offend me. I will say gladly and proudly without tip-toeing or beating around the bush. Melee is the way I love playing the game and the way I love seeing the game being played. (To paraphrase Prog in the documentary) I am not ashamed to admit. Being described as a "melee elitist" I take it as a compliment to be proud of.

 

[RanserSSF4]

People like to throw that term "meleelitist" around as a pejorative, I don't really know what people think of when they use it, but if it is someone who feels that melee is by and large the best smash game and that going away from that hurts the game rather than helps it. I would where that moniker proudly. Too often people don't want to be pegged as something that others see as a bad thing. Everyone is scared of offending someone. You sound like you want to call me it but are afraid to offend me. I will say gladly and proudly without tip-toeing or beating around the bush. Melee is the way I love playing the game and the way I love seeing the game being played. (To paraphrase Prog in the documentary) I am not ashamed to admit. Being described as a "melee elitist" I take it as a compliment to be proud of.

How am I afraid to call you a Melee elitist and how am I calling you a Melee Elitist? All I said was that the way you commented MAKES you sound like a Melee Elitist, not making you a Melee Elitist! In fact, I HATE calling people elitists, unless they deserve it!

 

[B!squick]

You're a BUM, Sakurai! Get your head examined so we can find out what the **** is wrong with you.

 

[THK]

I think he meant he will not make any games focused on the competitive scene. like how capcom did with Street Fighter.

DING DING DING DING DING

This is exactly that. He has no problem with it being competitive, the option is there to do so. He just doesn't believe going all in on the competitive side of things like traditional fighters do.

It's a miscommunication really. What he assumes is that he should shun all the casual stuff in favor of the competitive stuff. And in that regard, he's right, Smash wouldn't have any COMMERCIAL SALES MAKING future.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Melee is an imbalanced game and everyone knows it, yet melee fanboys don't ever want that to be the main issue. If wave dashing is allowed in smash games it makes a mockery of other aspects of the game which all of you know all too well. If you want spacing you walk, run, or roll. All of these things largely become obsolete, especially rolling, with wave dashing. And look, I'm someone who has fought one of the best in melee, darkrain, and beat him in a match with my ganondorf (just once). Melee was a good game but it's time for you wannabe alphas to move on. Have fun with your "project m" while the rest of us play a balanced game in sm4sh.

 

[ShrekItRalph]

I get why Sakurai would want to dumb down Smash, because after reading the replies on this, it is clear that the Smash community consists mostly of children.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hey guys, I have been thinking about this article all day and the translation and realized it was my responsibility as a writer to change it to be more accurate. I know that wont make up for some of the damage already caused, but at the time of writing the article that's the translation I had and I knew people would want to read about this either way. Hopefully you guys can forgive me on that.

I'm glad you owned up to it.

Major props dude.

 

[MasterExocuter]

Soul Calibur II Link is sooper broken.

Last time I checked, link was rock bottom

 

[DaRkJaWs]

I get why Sakurai would want to dumb down Smash, because after reading the replies on this, it is clear that the Smash community consists mostly of children.

So you think sm4sh is dumbed down huh? Silly.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Glad the title changed. Maybe now everything could go calmly

 

[ZeruSlayer]

No no, read it again.

They knew it was there, but it doesn't say how that affected balance and other issue if that ever came up.

It was intended as a side effect but I doubt they knew the full affect it would have on Melee.

If the lead developer was aware of a mechanic then I would think that the testers would be having a field day with it or development would attempt to remove it if it was never intended in the final product. It was even stated in the article that Sakurai considered leaving it or removing it. If this wasn't in his "vision" of the final product then the common sense thing to do was to remove wavedashing before releasing Melee then this whole community would be completely different yet, he kept the mechanic in anyways because he wanted wavedashing to be in.

What you're saying makes the testers for Melee look incompetent as well as Sakurai for knowing something existed yet not exploring it and just throwing it in the game because they didn't think it would've mattered or affect gameplay.

The fact that nothing was properly explained is why I called bs on Sakurai saying he was aware of wavedashing. The Sakurai who made Melee and the current Sakurai are completely different people vision-wise so that's why I can't take him seriously since he keeps contradicting himself.

 

[Cloudy]

I think people when say smash 4 is in between melee and brawl don't really understand melee. PM is in between Melee and brawl. Smash 4 is FAR more like brawl than melee.

Sakurai sounds like some kid who went to a melee tournament and lost first round then lost again in losers and rather than trying to get better he just decided to quit and forever hate on competitive play.

I doubt there will be another smash, but if there is I hope someone else is in charge of it.

Honestly the best thing that can happen to the smash community for me would be for a competitive edition (or a "melee" edition) to be released for smash 4. That way Nintendo can release their own version of a Project M. This would be a great PR stunt to show that a group of talented modders can't 1-up them, because honestly PM doesn't just 1-up sm4sh it 5-ups it. Plus it would show support for the competitive community and create a new way to play smash 4 that a lot of people would love. Then people who want to play vanilla smash 4 would have that and people who prefer a more "melee" style of play with smash 4 characters would have that as well. Everyone wins. And we all know how much sakurai is in favor of everyone winning.

1. The competitive smash community, not everyone would want a "melee" edition.
2. It doesn't make sense to sell a new game which is the same thing only with different mechanics, even more to the small group the competitive smash community is compared to the whole audience it has.
3."PM 5-ups Sm4sh" Yeah say it as an opinion, not a fact.
4. A new person in charge will still make the game the same way because its Nintendo who wants smash to be friendly to everyone. This isn't some indepentent project Sakurai make all alone.

 

[neohopeSTF]

If the lead developer was aware of a mechanic then I would think that the testers would be having a field day with it or development would attempt to remove it if it was never intended in the final product. It was even stated in the article that Sakurai considered leaving it or removing it. If this wasn't in his "vision" of the final product then the common sense thing to do was to remove wavedashing before releasing Melee then this whole community would be completely different yet, he kept the mechanic in anyways because he wanted wavedashing to be in.

What you're saying makes the testers for Melee look incompetent as well as Sakurai for knowing something existed yet not exploring it and just throwing it in the game because they didn't think it would've mattered or affect gameplay.

The fact that nothing was properly explained is why I called bs on Sakurai saying he was aware of wavedashing. The Sakurai who made Melee and the current Sakurai are completely different people vision-wise so that's why I can't take him seriously since he keeps contradicting himself.

Of course he is different, not only is he older he is working under drastically different conditions than he was when he worked on Melee, he has a bigger team and he has to make sure both sides of the fanbase enjoy the game.

 

[Chukkaque]

I liked this article.

 

[Comet7]

Melee is an imbalanced game and everyone knows it, yet melee fanboys don't ever want that to be the main issue. If wave dashing is allowed in smash games it makes a mockery of other aspects of the game which all of you know all too well. If you want spacing you walk, run, or roll. All of these things largely become obsolete, especially rolling, with wave dashing. And look, I'm someone who has fought one of the best in melee, darkrain, and beat him in a match with my ganondorf (just once). Melee was a good game but it's time for you wannabe alphas to move on. Have fun with your "project m" while the rest of us play a balanced game in sm4sh.

rolling was never a good way to move around, and wavedashing is/was never the end all and be all of movement. all it did was help, which is something you should know if you beat darkrain. btw, let's not call melee fans "wannabe alphas" for the sake of r-e-s-p-e-c-t for others.

 

[Zoa]

Melee is an imbalanced game and everyone knows it, yet melee fanboys don't ever want that to be the main issue. If wave dashing is allowed in smash games it makes a mockery of other aspects of the game which all of you know all too well. If you want spacing you walk, run, or roll. All of these things largely become obsolete, especially rolling, with wave dashing. And look, I'm someone who has fought one of the best in melee, darkrain, and beat him in a match with my ganondorf (just once). Melee was a good game but it's time for you wannabe alphas to move on. Have fun with your "project m" while the rest of us play a balanced game in sm4sh.

Seriously mods. Why hasn't this guy been marked yet?

 

[Jebus244]

We already have a mode in Smash 4 that pretty much makes the game as fast as Melee. that's Smooth Lander Heavy Gravity! Not going, some of your statements make you sound like a Melee Elitist. Not saying you are, it's just the way you commented your points makes you sound like one!

Competitive players don't want a "custom item" easy button. Wavedashing took skill to do well. The disparity between competitive players and casuals is what makes some players pros and others scrubs... and others just ok. This is essential to competitive play.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Seriously mods. Why hasn't this guy been marked yet?

What for?

 

[Auramaniji]

Sakurai made the game that caters to both crowds so players that are entering smash for the first time are welcomed to play, and rewards those whom go the extra mile to master smash bros.

However without these new players, competitive smash would get stale as the years would go by. Shrinking more and more until the competitive smash scene would be smaller than what it once started from.

 

[neohopeSTF]

Sakurai made the game that caters to both crowds so players that are entering smash for the first time are welcomed to play, and rewards those whom go the extra mile to master smash bros.

However without these new players, competitive smash would get stale as the years would go by. Shrinking more and more until the competitive smash scene would be smaller than what it once started from.

This. The Melee scene will only last for so long before people leave because of life/age or just get bored of the game.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If the lead developer was aware of a mechanic then I would think that the testers would be having a field day with it or development would attempt to remove it if it was never intended in the final product. It was even stated in the article that Sakurai considered leaving it or removing it. If this wasn't in his "vision" of the final product then the common sense thing to do was to remove wavedashing before releasing Melee then this whole community would be completely different yet, he kept the mechanic in anyways because he wanted wavedashing to be in.

What you're saying makes the testers for Melee look incompetent as well as Sakurai for knowing something existed yet not exploring it and just throwing it in the game because they didn't think it would've mattered or affect gameplay.

The fact that nothing was properly explained is why I called bs on Sakurai saying he was aware of wavedashing. The Sakurai who made Melee and the current Sakurai are completely different people vision-wise so that's why I can't take him seriously since he keeps contradicting himself.

He didn't have the same team and wasn't working under the same conditions.

Like they might have tinkered with it, but I doubt they fully explored it given how I heard Melee was rushed.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Competitive players don't want a "custom item" easy button. Wavedashing took skill to do well. The disparity between competitive players and casuals is what makes some players pros and others scrubs... and others just ok. This is essential to competitive play.

Right, being able to wave dash and do it consistently took some getting used to, especially with the crappy r and l gamecube buttons, which is exactly why there was such a large disparity between casuals and pros. But also exactly why it needed to be removed from the game. You can still play competitively in any sport or game as long as there is care towards balance, and that is largely why your complaints largely fall on deaf ears, although I'll agree that brawl took out a little too much. But melee was also too fast, another factor contributing to imbalance between characters.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

What for?

For making a mockery of his point of view and raison d'être

 

[Zoa]

For making a mockery of his point of view and raison d'être

No. For unnecessary flaming. Shall I quote them?

 

[ZeruSlayer]

He didn't have the same team and wasn't working under the same conditions.

Like they might have tinkered with it, but I doubt they fully explored it given how I heard Melee was rushed.

Fair point, Smash 4 was also rushed but not at the same extent as Melee so I can understand how they wouldn't have explored wave dashing before release

 

[RanserSSF4]

Competitive players don't want a "custom item" easy button. Wavedashing took skill to do well. The disparity between competitive players and casuals is what makes some players pros and others scrubs... and others just ok. This is essential to competitive play.

I agree when it comes to wavedashing taking skill to master, but how do you know competitive players don't want this mode? D1, VGBootCamp, Papapainvids, TKBreezy, and many others like it and think it should be tested. Just saying "competitive players don't want a "custom item" easy button" that doesn't prove your point at all. this mode pretty much targets more to not only most of the Melee players, but also players who like fast-paced, aggressive type gameplay. I will admit, this mode ruins the balance a little, but I don't think that's a bad thing!

 

[MudkipUniverse]

corrected version; "If we direct smash only at the casual players, It will have no future."

which is what they already did

 

[Xeno Josh]

Any game can be played competitively. Halo is competitive, Street Fighter is competitive. And they're still in the competitive scene to this day.

 

[chipndip]

Just because the 10k people doesn't make up their sales doesn't mean that those other customers can't enjoy those competitive features. I'm sure that only 10k people are not the only people who play with items off.

You're still thinking of it the wrong way:

Look, the competitive community of Smash doesn't carry the series on its back. The series carries the competitive community on ITS back. Forming a mob and biting the hand that feeds you isn't the answer. I can personally account for the many times I'm left in a room devoid of any excitement, hype, or fun because it's me, one other guy, and a very skewed w/l record in my favor. For some people, just playing good players and dishing/eating salt is enough to have fun (like me). For many others, that's not the case. Competitive players need to SERIOUSLY get the hell off their high-horse, come out of their bubble, and look at things from different perspectives, no offense. If it isn't obvious what he's trying to get across, there isn't a much simpler way to explain it.

 

[Undrdog]

He seems well aware that competitive play exists. Why not at least port Melee to Wii U as a sign of good faith? (and record sales btw)

 

[Awstintacious]

Well after reading the whole interview, I'm pretty convinced that Sakurai feels like he'd be personnally responsible for bad feelings if he made the games competitive. He wants everyone to have a good time playing a game together instead of providing an amazing way to engage in a battle of wits and skill. That's probably a key reason that he creates games and feels like there should be no lows, but without the lows, how can you feel any highs?

 

[DaRkJaWs]

No. For unnecessary flaming. Shall I quote them?

Maybe you should re-read the many dumb comments made towards sakurai here and then perhaps re-evaluate my comments in response.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Well after reading the whole interview, I'm pretty convinced that Sakurai feels like he'd be personnally responsible for bad feelings if he made the games competitive. He wants everyone to have a good time playing a game together instead of providing an amazing way to engage in a battle of wits and skill. That's probably a key reason that he creates games and feels like there should be no lows, but without the lows, how can you feel any highs?

There are no highs to experience in competitive melee unless you are one of the top players.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Even after the correction, people are still ranting? I was hopping the correction would bring peace..

 

[Zoa]

Maybe you should re-read the many dumb comments made towards sakurai here and then perhaps re-evaluate my comments in response.

Maybe you stop deflecting the subject matter I present to you.

 

[EgeDal]

I just want to say that i didn't play Melee competitively when i was young, i had so much fun with many characters i like. There were no tiers, no tourneys, just me, my brother and classic mode.

Now i'm 18 years old, i'm into competitive Smash, and i'm still having so much fun. Me, my brother and online friends.

There's nothing wrong with Smash, it's a great game. Every Smash game is great.

 

[LancerStaff]

corrected version; "If we direct smash only at the casual players, It will have no future."

which is what they already did

Lol, it sold well enough for a sequel. A hardcore only Smash would not, being that the hardcore community amounts to less then 1% of sales. Popular games have a future, dude.

 

[uTheJoKeR]

As I posted not 5 minutes ago. The sentence that everyone is misinterpreting was mistranslated. He has no intentions of getting rid of the competitive side of Smash. He just doesn't want it to be the only side of Smash.

That's fine. I just hope it wasn't said in the way we all see it.