Sakurai: "If we Direct Smash ONLY at The Competitive Players, It Will Have No Future."

[Smashbro596]

kinda with sakurai here. i play smash for fun, if it were made more competitive, i wouldnt play it. sakurai pours his heart and soul into these games. and even if not as competitive as melee, smash itself is still an enjoyable game to play. and we will all eat it up >.<

 

[platomaker]

Oh I SEE what went wrong here. This was the original post that I disagreed with and because it was you that quoted me responding w/ DHD, I immediately thought this was the same person I quoted and disagreed with w/o going back and checking to see if you are the same person. MY mistake. My beef isn't w/ you. I agree w/ a lot of what you were saying actually. It was this guy's statement of "I'm a very aggressive player, so I don't do too well in the defense-oriented environments of Brawl or Smash 4." My Bad Dude. I take full responsibility for being an idiot this time. lol.

me?

 

[BobVance_]

Riiiight. Bad design choice. Tripping. Alright. Nice. Everyone hated it. Now tell me what else besides that and L canceling.

Slow and boring? Chaingrabs? Meta knight? Fun party game, but in no way was it competitive worthy...at all.

 

[Zoa]

From that choose stages that don't have tapered ledges, megaman's stage, Duck Hunt's stage, Wii Fit's stage, any stage that has walls running down will help prevent that auto latch from happening- its a problem for me too. If you're not sure then just wait for them to grab the ledge to keep em out or use projectiles.

It's not so much the auto snap. It's the entire point of how edgehogging was just wiped out. I can edgeguard fairly well most of the time, but why should the one recovering get that much leniency trying to recover?

Edit: Sorry. Going off on a tangent here. I do various things when I edgeguard. I punish options recovering high and low. I appreciate the advice though.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

On the subject of "if he really dislikes/hates competitive players, why did he include For Glory?":

The way I've interpreted his many strange statements across time is that he is a man on a mission. He speaks as though creating Smash Bros games is his duty and no other (wo)man could.

I feel this is no different. I personally doubt his "catering" to the competitive fanbase is because he wants to, per se, but rather he feels obligated to do so. If his vision is to truly make Smash Bros a series for everyone to enjoy, then he needs to expand its demographic as far as possible. Or you know, maybe someone of influence forced him to "cater" to us.

I still believe that For Glory being Final Destination-only shows a very poor understanding of competitive play(ers) and that it was either done as a cop-out to say "I tried" or not to cater to competitive players at all but rather the "casual-competitive" (ie. players who don't attend tournaments, but enjoy playing the game with tournament-styled rulesets) players I've been hearing so much about lately.

The real reason we should be ranting is because of this quote:

"So you mean there were a few more characters in the original plans than made it into the final roster?

Sakurai: Yes... but I am not going to tell you who it was."

Classic Sakurai.

 

[Zoa]

You can play this game however you want it to, but remember it wasn't made to be a pro fighting game, so if you wanna play it like that, then do so, but don't get mad when it has some flaws playing it like that.

Getting mad over something like that is juvenile, but I am thoroughly disappointed because my options are taken away. By doing that, Sakurai is clearly telling me how I should play.

 

[KiTsuNe_23]

Really though, why hasn't this article been taken down yet? It clearly works in the negative in regards to generating useful discussions because of the mistranslation that makes up the click-bait title. Is there any way to contact the writer of this article?

I've tried. No success yet.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You are just spewing mindless garbage right now.
What about the spacies design makes it horrible? (Please separate fact from opinion, please.) And support your argument properly. Don't just SAY THINGS and expect ppl to take them as you say them. That's not how it works.

Can't grab the ledge backwards. Ummm...YES YOU CAN! The first and last few frames of an UP B can grab backwards.

Battlefield's awful ledges? What makes them awful. EXPLAIN YOURSELF.

Character Diversity in terms of design.....Wow. Just Wow. WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT??! LMAO!

Jack of all trades and master of a few of those with weaknesses that really don't even come close to offsetting their strengths of everything. They are toxic and made PM's characters in resign awful.

You really can't on a lot of situations, you miss grabbing backwards and they keep the jank in PM for no good reason.

Battlefields ledges don't match up well with how they should be fir ledge detection and get people killed a lot.

Melee design diversity is very limited, characters very easily overlap where as in brawl and Smash 4 they have more identity.

Nice insults though, you should try real arguments over mud slinging though.

 

[platomaker]

It's not so much the auto snap. It's the entire point of how edgehogging was just wiped out. I can edgeguard fairly well most of the time, but why should the one recovering get that much leniency trying to recover?

There is a lot of leniency true, and most spikes have been neutered also true. But those who still have good spikes are usually known for it, like its apart of their identity in this game (usually).
And autosnap doesn't favor all characters, I've literally lost a tournament match for not grabbing the ledge from my recovery even though I've been closer and fell closer than most characters autograb from.

Oh yeah, something interesting I've seen with amiibos and pulled off a few times. The autosnap isn't always safe either, with proper timing you can down smash or attack someone about to grab the ledge.

 

[EnigmaticKnight]

 

[Zoa]

There is a lot of leniency true, and most spikes have been neutered also true. But those who still have good spikes are usually known for it, like its apart of their identity in this game (usually).
And autosnap doesn't favor all characters, I've literally lost a tournament match for not grabbing the ledge from my recovery even though I've been closer and fell closer than most characters autograb from.

Oh yeah, something interesting I've seen with amiibos and pulled off a few times. The autosnap isn't always safe either, with proper timing you can down smash or attack someone about to grab the ledge.

Yeah. I do that if the opponent is recovering low or parallel to the stage. Usually something like Aura Sphere or a disjointed dtilt to punish them.

 

[Dr.Megaman]

The is strong in this comment section

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Smash 4 is a competitive game in a series that will never accidentally allow wave dashing in the game again. Get over it, melee fanboys. And not only is it competitive, all but one or two characters in the game are well balanced, ie there is parity between the characters. And that is really what competition is supposed to be about, which is why I look at you melee ******** with such disgust, because you don't care about balance at all, you just want wave dashing.

 

[Tino]

All because of one little sentence Sakurai said and then the whole Smash community begins throwing insults at one another about it way too easily.

 

[BobVance_]

Smash 4 is a competitive game in a series that will never accidentally allow wave dashing in the game again. Get over it, melee fanboys. And not only is it competitive, all but one or two characters in the game are well balanced, ie there is parity between the characters. And that is really what competition is supposed to be about, which is why I look at you melee *******s with such disgust, because you don't care about balance at all, you just want wave dashing.

Yes, I know, you played a few scrubs on for glory and won and feel high and mighty about it. Smash 4 is not designed for competitive play no matter how hard you want it to be. Sorry.

 

[Chez G.]

Smash 64: Small crowd but still going happening. (Also Isai)
Melee: HELLO? 13 YEARS AND STILL COUNTING!
Brawl: Nope, that's dead. (or dying slowly... I don't know.)
Project M(inb4 "not a real Smash game"): Nintendo WANTS it to die. (but it hopefully won't)
Smash 4: Most likely to end up like Brawl. (Well, at least I HOPE.)

Overall, I hate it when I see developer doubt his own product. I understand that he would be concerned about some aspects of the game but... to say it has no future as a competitive game? I don't even know how to comprehend that statement.

I know, right? Sakurai talking down to his own fanbase that love Smash to death and play it competitively is a slap to the face. I would say the same thing if Sakurai said something along the lines of "Smash is strictly a competitive fighting game and there are other party games other than Smash for casual players to play."

It's like Junichi Masuda saying that Pokemon is only for kids, when in reality, many adults like Pokemon too.

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

Yes, I know, you played a few scrubs on for glory and won and feel high and mighty about it. Smash 4 is not designed for competitive play no matter how hard you want it to be. Sorry.

The same thing can be said for melee or any smash. All of them are made to be party games

 

[Zoa]

Smash 4 is a competitive game in a series that will never accidentally allow wave dashing in the game again. Get over it, melee fanboys. And not only is it competitive, all but one or two characters in the game are well balanced, ie there is parity between the characters. And that is really what competition is supposed to be about, which is why I look at you melee *******s with such disgust, because you don't care about balance at all, you just want wave dashing.

ITT: completely unnecessary flaming and opinionated statements with absolutely no factual backing

Some mod mark this guy please.

 

[majorasmaskfan]

People need to realize that Nintendo is a family-friendly focused company, and as a company they want to get the more people as possible to play and enjoy their games. Sakurai is not dumb or anything for thinking that way, even though I would prefer *MYSELF* a more competitive focused game, I can understand his point of view.

And also remember that Melee wasn't also intended to be the way it is right now.

The community that enjoy playing the game competitively is the one that has driven this scene where it is right now, and we will continue to do so with or without developer support.

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...lains-nintendos-renewed-passion-for-the-core/ Hopefully the next smash becomes more competitive as core gamer become Nintendo's focus agian.

 

[platomaker]

You can read his statement anyway you like, he can objectively even say that afterwards. Few understand he's talking about the franchise as a whole, but consider this- even if he wasn't, even if he did mean melee, brawl, or smash 4: then he was proven wrong and can still be with your support. Think about it, was Melee designed to be competitive? With that mind set, I think melee came from the same place all the other games in the franchise came from. Chill, we all know he was talking about the franchise and future entries.

If its any indication, if he meant what everyone fears he does, he also said he wasn't making another smash game after brawl and here he ended up making two!

 

[LiteralGrill]

Hey guys, I have been thinking about this article all day and the translation and realized it was my responsibility as a writer to change it to be more accurate. I know that wont make up for some of the damage already caused, but at the time of writing the article that's the translation I had and I knew people would want to read about this either way. Hopefully you guys can forgive me on that.

 

[platomaker]

You can read his statement anyway you like, he can objectively even say that afterwards. Few understand he's talking about the franchise as a whole, but consider this- even if he wasn't, even if he did mean melee, brawl, or smash 4: then he was proven wrong and can still be with your support. Think about it, was Melee designed to be competitive? With that mind set, I think melee came from the same place all the other games in the franchise came from. Chill, we all know he was talking about the franchise and future entries.

If its any indication, if he meant what everyone fears he does, he also said he wasn't making another smash game after brawl and here he ended up making two!

6 hours and 500 comments later. I'm done for today.

 

[PyroTakun]

For Ike For Ike

I'll get the petition started.

 

[Zoa]

6 hours and 500 comments later. I'm done for today.

Well, I enjoyed discussing with you. Hit me on PM if you want to talk again in the future.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Not that I ever cared about Sakurai's opinion, but this is just one more reason I do not care what a game's creator thinks.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Smash 4 is a competitive game in a series that will never accidentally allow wave dashing in the game again. Get over it, melee fanboys. And not only is it competitive, all but one or two characters in the game are well balanced, ie there is parity between the characters. And that is really what competition is supposed to be about, which is why I look at you melee *******s with such disgust, because you don't care about balance at all, you just want wave dashing.

lol wtf, wavedashing doesnt break game balance, it adds more depth, honestly casuals should gtfo if they try to argue about things they dont know anything about and hate because they cant do it. I love all smash's and play them comp btw, so im no melee "fanboy" but mudslinging either game is just stupid.

as for this, Anything can be made competitive it doesn't matter what ANYONE says, end of salt thread.

also @Zink Imp dont be stupid, there is literally no skill in predicting that a bomb would pop right over your head while attacking and you set it off gtfo with that. also, you gave me an opportunity to post my favorite video.

People can choose what they want, dont bash the competitive community for what they choose, we dont care if we're "ignoring" the rest of the game (lol we unlock everything first before we set tourney's up so....) we find items to be boring, chaotic, and unbalanced, we tried that in early melee, didn't work, so tough cookies. We don't tell you how to play, dont tell us how to play.

 

[Syrek]

I am honestly disgusted by the comments I have been seeing. Many of you should be ashamed of yourselves for the way you've been behaving amongst each other, not to mention the disrespectful attitude and behaviour towards Sakurai. As a fellow Smashboards member, I'm greatly upset with how many individuals have overreacted to Sakurai's comments and took them out of context or not read the article properly and then fight with other members of Smashboards or say slanderous things towards Sakurai. Why should we be taken seriously as a community when so many of us are acting incredibly childish? It's upsetting to say the least.

Today is a sad day indeed, for many have lost my respect due to they're asinine comments and hurtful remarks. I have nothing else to say on the matter besides the fact that I'm filled with disappointment.

 

[BobVance_]

Also, I really don't understand this whole catering to casual players...If they're casual, they won't give a crap if they win or lose they'll just have fun messing around in the game. The ones who care will play longer and get better. The people who hang around here saying "i'm not good enough so i appreciate his sentiments" sound salty to me. Clearly you're "hardcore" enough to make an account on this website and post daily. If you can't get better that's your fault, don't complain that it's too hard...lol

 

[TOCK]

"If we downgraded* the game to make it more spectator friendly, that would be a bad thing."

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

lol wtf, wavedashing doesnt break game balance, it adds more depth, honestly casuals should gtfo if they try to argue about things they dont know anything about and hate because they cant do it. I love all smash's and play them comp btw, so im no melee "fanboy" but mudslinging either game is just stupid.

as for this, Anything can be made competitive it doesn't matter what ANYONE says, end of salt thread.

also @Zink Imp dont be stupid, there is literally no skill in predicting that a bomb would pop right over your head while attacking and you set it off gtfo with that. also, you gave me an opportunity to post my favorite video.

People can choose what they want, dont bash the competitive community for what they choose, we dont care if we're "ignoring" the rest of the game (lol we unlock everything first before we set tourney's up so....) we find items to be boring, chaotic, and unbalanced, we tried that in early melee, didn't work, so tough cookies. We don't tell you how to play, dont tell us how to play.

Actually it does in a way.

The characters weren't designed and intended to Wavedash like they do.

It's the same with DACUS in future titles.

It adds depth sure, but then you added power that may or may have not needed it and got too powerful as a result. Or characters who really could have used it, but then got nothing.

Wavedashing is cool but I wouldn't say it didn't skew balance.

 

[Trunks159]

I am honestly disgusted by the comments I have been seeing. Many of you should be ashamed of yourselves for the way you've been behaving amongst each other, not to mention the disrespectful attitude and behaviour towards Sakurai. As a fellow Smashboards member, I'm greatly upset with how many individuals have overreacted to Sakurai's comments and took them out of context or not read the article properly and then fight with other members of Smashboards or say slanderous things towards Sakurai. Why should we be taken seriously as a community when so many of us are acting incredibly childish? It's upsetting to say the least.

Today is a sad day indeed, for many have lost my respect due to they're asinine comments and hurtful remarks. I have nothing else to say on the matter besides the fact that I'm filled with disappointment.

That means so much to us. Thanks for the imput...

 

[Joe73191]

I think people when say smash 4 is in between melee and brawl don't really understand melee. PM is in between Melee and brawl. Smash 4 is FAR more like brawl than melee.

Sakurai sounds like some kid who went to a melee tournament and lost first round then lost again in losers and rather than trying to get better he just decided to quit and forever hate on competitive play.

I doubt there will be another smash, but if there is I hope someone else is in charge of it.

Honestly the best thing that can happen to the smash community for me would be for a competitive edition (or a "melee" edition) to be released for smash 4. That way Nintendo can release their own version of a Project M. This would be a great PR stunt to show that a group of talented modders can't 1-up them, because honestly PM doesn't just 1-up sm4sh it 5-ups it. Plus it would show support for the competitive community and create a new way to play smash 4 that a lot of people would love. Then people who want to play vanilla smash 4 would have that and people who prefer a more "melee" style of play with smash 4 characters would have that as well. Everyone wins. And we all know how much sakurai is in favor of everyone winning.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

The characters weren't designed and intended to Wavedash like they do.

But Sakurai confirmed that wavedashing was intentional in development (which I call bs but you reap what you sow).

Nintendo Power: This is one that a lot of hardcore Smash Bros. fans have long wondered about. Was the ablility to "Wavedash" in Melee intentional or a glitch?

Sakurai: Of course, we noticed that you could do that during the development period. With Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it wasn't a matter of, "OK, do we leave it in or do we take it out?" We really just wanted this game, again, to appeal to and be played by gamers of all different levels. We felt that there was a growing gap between beginners and advanced players, and taking that out helps to level the playing field. It wasn't a big priority or anything, but when we were building the game around the idea of making it fair for everybody, it just made sense to take it out. And it also goes back to wanting to make something different from Melee and giving players the opportunity to find new things to enjoy.

Source: http://smashboards.com/threads/disp...-intervew-wavedashing-was-intentional.162416/

 

[Trunks159]

Also, I really don't understand this whole catering to casual players...If they're casual, they won't give a crap if they win or lose they'll just have fun messing around in the game. The ones who care will play longer and get better. The people who hang around here saying "i'm not good enough so i appreciate his sentiments" sound salty to me. Clearly you're "hardcore" enough to make an account on this website and post daily. If you can't get better that's your fault, don't complain that it's too hard...lol

Exactly. Casuals played Melee. They would suck compared to a pro, but it was fun.

I feel like most people were satisfied with the competitiveness of Smash, and now the people are argueing with themselves.

Once again, don't listen to a word he says and you'll be happy.

 

[RanserSSF4]

I think people when say smash 4 is in between melee and brawl don't really understand melee. PM is in between Melee and brawl. Smash 4 is FAR more like brawl than melee.

Sakurai sounds like some kid who went to a melee tournament and lost first round then lost again in losers and rather than trying to get better he just decided to quit and forever hate on competitive play.

I doubt there will be another smash, but if there is I hope someone else is in charge of it.

Honestly the best thing that can happen to the smash community for me would be for a competitive edition (or a "melee" edition) to be released for smash 4. That way Nintendo can release their own version of a Project M. This would be a great PR stunt to show that a group of talented modders can't 1-up them, because honestly PM doesn't just 1-up sm4sh it 5-ups it. Plus it would show support for the competitive community and create a new way to play smash 4 that a lot of people would love. Then people who want to play vanilla smash 4 would have that and people who prefer a more "melee" style of play with smash 4 characters would have that as well. Everyone wins. And we all know how much sakurai is in favor of everyone winning.

We already have a mode in Smash 4 that pretty much makes the game as fast as Melee. that's Smooth Lander Heavy Gravity! Not going, some of your statements make you sound like a Melee Elitist. Not saying you are, it's just the way you commented your points makes you sound like one!

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Actually it does in a way.

The characters weren't designed and intended to Wavedash like they do.

It's the same with DACUS in future titles.

It adds depth sure, but then you added power that may or may have not needed it and got too powerful as a result. Or characters who really could have used it, but then got nothing.

Wavedashing is cool but I wouldn't say it didn't skew balance.

I know what your saying, but he's saying wavedashing=broken game.

While PM has done just fine, if sakurai wanted it in the game, i'm sure things could have turned out better than the current melee tier list.

 

[Trunks159]

I doubt there will be another smash, but if there is I hope someone else is in charge of it.

Why do you doubt it? It makes money, it is essensial to Nintendo at this point. Only way Smash doesn't come out is if the console after the Wii U completely flops. Even then itll be on the new DS.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

But Sakurai confirmed that wavedashing was intentional in development (which I call bs but you reap what you sow).
Nintendo Power: This is one that a lot of hardcore Smash Bros. fans have long wondered about. Was the ablility to "Wavedash" in Melee intentional or a glitch?

Sakurai: Of course, we noticed that you could do that during the development period. With Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it wasn't a matter of, "OK, do we leave it in or do we take it out?" We really just wanted this game, again, to appeal to and be played by gamers of all different levels. We felt that there was a growing gap between beginners and advanced players, and taking that out helps to level the playing field. It wasn't a big priority or anything, but when we were building the game around the idea of making it fair for everybody, it just made sense to take it out. And it also goes back to wanting to make something different from Melee and giving players the opportunity to find new things to enjoy.

Source: http://smashboards.com/threads/disp...-intervew-wavedashing-was-intentional.162416/

No no, read it again.

They knew it was there, but it doesn't say how that affected balance and other issue if that ever came up.

It was intended as a side effect but I doubt they knew the full affect it would have on Melee.

 

[NeoVX]

Just wait to someone hack it and do Smash project 3ds and wii u

 

[neohopeSTF]

Have you ever made a game.