Sakurai and his own Kirby bias

[Boo_Destroyer]

Spirits- While there are a few modern Kirby spirits, many of them don't even have a spirit battle and must be unceremoniously bought at a shop.

You're joking, right?

 

[Acemania]

You're joking, right?

MODERN spirits. I don't mean any spirit!

 

[Boo_Destroyer]

No, the newer ones do have good spirit battles. The other part of them are summonable. That's anything but unceremonious.

 

[Acemania]

No, the newer ones do have good spirit battles. The other part of them are summonable. That's anything but unceremonious.

Even then, most off them aren't even useful. There are no legend class modern spirits (unless you count Dark Daroach), none of theme have truly useful abilities (some just don't have any abilities), and they pretty much pale in comparison to the classic ones.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Most of the Kirby spirits are the timeless ones anyway. Post-2011 one are:
Robobot Armor
Magolor
Landia
Queen Sectonia
Bandana Waddle Dee (Let's face it HAL never truly used his full potential until RtDL)
Ultra Sword
Robobot Armor
Elline
The Three Mage Sisters

(I use 2011 with RtDL since that was when Kirby made it's big comeback that's still going on today. No disrespect toward Epic Yarn, although it only has 1 spirit, Prince Fluff).

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I think there are some timeless spirits missing.

-Adeleine & Ribbon
-Nova (despite Sakurai's Bias®)

and there are probably more... heck, why did they exclude Taranza and Adeleine, the representation of the characters is ALMOST complete but they removed those two characters just to make the fans salty... we even have Gryll and the KDL3 animal friends, it's not a matter of being important or not, it's a matter of excluding them for the sake of it.

 

[Luigifan18]

Queen Sectonia's Spirit should have been enhanceable into her Dreamstalk fusion form.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Queen Sectonia's Spirit should have been enhanceable into her Dreamstalk fusion form.

I was mega disappointed when I summoned it then realized you couldn't evolve it.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I think there are some timeless spirits missing.

-Adeleine & Ribbon
-Nova (despite Sakurai's Bias®)

and there are probably more... heck, why did they exclude Taranza and Adeleine, the representation of the characters is ALMOST complete but they removed those two characters just to make the fans salty... we even have Gryll and the KDL3 animal friends, it's not a matter of being important or not, it's a matter of excluding them for the sake of it.

Why yes. The Tyrant Sakurai looked down from his iron throne, saw the common people like you and said "I'm gonna make this guy's life miserable".

Grow up, man. You are too old for that petty ****.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Why yes. The Tyrant Sakurai looked down from his iron throne, saw the common people like you and said "I'm gonna make this guy's life miserable".

Grow up, man. You are too old for that petty ****.

So what's the point of this post?

I don't get your point, aside of the free personal attack.
You do not have the rights to tell me what I must or must not do, and you do not have the rights to judge me based on the data in my profile and some assumptions.

You don't know me in real life and you don't know anything of me, so, if there's someone who should stop that's you.

Especially this part:
"I'm gonna make this guy's life miserable"
How do you know I feel miserable for that? I'm just annoyed, and I have all the rights of being so.

If you think that what I have said is wrong, then contribute to the discussion by explaining why those spirits have been skipped. Instead of attacking people based on their age.
So far, there's no logical explanation on why those spirits have been skipped, so even if you do this, that would be your opinion and not a fact; attacking other people's opinions without any evidence supporting your claims is more childish than having one; you have no idea of how the development of Smash happend and how the decisions were taken (neither me, we can just guess).

About the "Grow Up" part, just look at my activity recently. I visit the forums rarely, because I have other stuff to do in real life and I don't care much of this place; Smash/Kirby/wathever videogame I'm talking about on a dedicated board is not my life. Just for your consideration.

Thank you for making me seriously angry.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

Just dropping to state my simple opinions. Bandana Dee is becoming iconic, partly because of his actual in-game appearances, partly because pf the fanbase doing weird fanbase stuff (random small details often become iconic parts of a franchise to a fanbase), but he's not even as important or iconic as Toad, and I *super* don't think either one of them have enough going for them to be really interesting characters that add much to the game. Yeah, a moveset cam be made for basically anything. I could make a moveset for a honking *ball* if I had to, but like.... does that mean the ball deserves to be in? A poor analogy, but still. Anyways, these are all my own opinions, attack away. No hard feelings. I'm probably not going to respond after this, soooooo, sorry.

 

[Team Orchid]

but he's not even as important or iconic as Toad.

I don't think this is a fair comparison. Toad is from games that are chock full of iconic characters with easy transitions into smash as we can clearly see. He's got a metric ton of competition. Bandana Dee doesn't have this problem.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I don't think this is a fair comparison. Toad is from games that are chock full of iconic characters with easy transitions into smash as we can clearly see. He's got a metric ton of competition. Bandana Dee doesn't have this problem.

I'd say otherwise. Bandana Dee has the relevance, but since Star Allies he's got way more competition than before. If not for the oddball choices Smash makes, they both would have had a different shot at getting in. Both are not my first pick, but are also perfectly understandable choices.
I don't understand why the comparison isn't more apt.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

So what's the point of this post?

I don't get your point, aside of the free personal attack.
You do not have the rights to tell me what I must or must not do, and you do not have the rights to judge me based on the data in my profile and some assumptions.

You don't know me in real life and you don't know anything of me, so, if there's someone who should stop that's you.

Especially this part:
"I'm gonna make this guy's life miserable"
How do you know I feel miserable for that? I'm just annoyed, and I have all the rights of being so.

If you think that what I have said is wrong, then contribute to the discussion by explaining why those spirits have been skipped. Instead of attacking people based on their age.
So far, there's no logical explanation on why those spirits have been skipped, so even if you do this, that would be your opinion and not a fact; attacking other people's opinions without any evidence supporting your claims is more childish than having one; you have no idea of how the development of Smash happend and how the decisions were taken (neither me, we can just guess).

About the "Grow Up" part, just look at my activity recently. I visit the forums rarely, because I have other stuff to do in real life and I don't care much of this place; Smash/Kirby/wathever videogame I'm talking about on a dedicated board is not my life. Just for your consideration.

Thank you for making me seriously angry.

You posted on a public forum and that exposes you to having your view contested. That's what gives me the right. Truth is that people aren't entitled to their opinion; they are entitled to what they can argue for it.

My point wasn't meant to explain the reason for the inclusion of certain Spirits, because I know nothing about that. I responded because I have a HUGE disdain for self victimization in this fanbase. And that sentence I bolded from your post strongly implies that. And that is not ok. The dev team don't do stuff in the game for the sake of annoying people. If you don't know much of how the development in Smash happened then more reason to not jump to conclusions. I also don't know what happened either about the decision making, but I understand more than most people will ever bother paying attention to.

 

[DuckMeat]

I'd say otherwise. Bandana Dee has the relevance, but since Star Allies he's got way more competition than before. If not for the oddball choices Smash makes, they both would have had a different shot at getting in. Both are not my first pick, but are also perfectly understandable choices.
I don't understand why the comparison isn't more apt.

I think it's fair to say pretty much every Dream Friend not already playable got a major popularity boost with respect to playability in Smash. Maybe it's because I joined the community rather late, but I never recalled Marx and Ado having nearly as much support as they did in Ultimate's hype cycle.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Ryu Myuutsu Being on a public board does not allow you to call me out of my age because that's called personal attack.
Your post was rude and not constructive, you just attacked me for no reason, and what disgusts me is that people liked that post.
I don't tolerate this behavior but you know, Internet is like that, as long as one is passive-aggressive, one can insult other people without breaking the rules, that's allowed...

And my post wasn't even that serious.
Sure, with the years, I developed a deep dislike for Sakurai's game design philosophies; while I liked Sakurai's games when I was younger, later I realized how stupid most of his elements are... the overall quantity over quality logic, the horrible and confusing menues, the gambling elements, the ridicolous achievements that require you to repeat the same mode hundreds of times in order to complete the game, the relying on random to complete most of the challenges, the gameplay priorities (for example, characters still jump at fixed heights and the launch trajectories are still fixed depending on the move/hitboxes; the gameplay is still stuck at the innovations introduced by Melee, the new development goes wasted in some single player mode that nobody asked for and people will forget about in a matter of weeks), etc etc. And my dislike for Sakurai's philosophies start from the beginning, since Kirby Superstar; it's not something that I just say about his recent games.

I haven't bought this Smash game, not because Adeleine is not in, or because Kirby is not well represented, but because grew up to dislike Sakurai's way of making games. Time ago I skipped Kid Icarus Uprising for the same reasons, the only thing that kept me stick to the Smash series was my love for most of the characters and franchises in the roster, but since none of the characters and franchises added in this new Smash game interests me, I can just stay with Smash 4 and Melee (well, Piranha Plant is the only character that I kinda like, but that's not enough).
I'm pretty much here only because of the 4 DLC characters; if none of them interests me, then I'll just skip this game, and I'm not forcing myself to boycot the game for some childish reason; I'm just not interested in it because none of the new content interest me enough to justify the cost of the game, I can just stay with the old versions (especially Melee).

So, before jumping to conclusions, first try to start a discussion and eventually talk about what you agree and disagree to.

but I understand more than most people will ever bother paying attention to.

And that last sentence is just arrogant, please stop.

Back on the subject,
I'm convinced that those spirits have been excluded for stupid reasons, very stupid, that could be one of these:

-Ignorance: HAL sure knows their series, they put many references to all the history of Kirby in their most recent games, and they know how to please their fans. The Smash team though, maybe don't know what are the core elements of the history of the Kirby series, so the balance in the series' representation is all messed up because they don't really know/care. That's obviously very disappointing, they could have asked HAL and payed more attention to this.

-Sakurai: Yes, on that iron throne... he always tries to push his vision into the projects he works on as far as he can, even if they're not his IPs. I've read an interview where he has said that he didn't want to change Villager's neck but he had to, he complained that they forced him to change Wii Fit Trainer's face, during a Nintendo Direct (I know that's not him directly working on the model, I'm not stupid, but he still complained about the decision). And he "fought" with Miyamoto about Kirby's color, so much that they had to make him white on the cover of the first game because they still had no idea of what color to choose between Miyamoto's yellow and Sakurai's pink. So, this is just a supposition, but it's possible that he dislikes some of the Kirby games because they go against his original vision of the franchise, and he does everything in his power to exclude content from those games into his works. (after all, he's the one who made that "no human characters" rule when the Kirby anime was in development, that's probably the reason why Adeleine didn't appear in the anime). But against this there is the fact that Kirby's Dream Land 3 has all its character in the game, and I'm sure that if Kirby 64 is disliked by Sakurai, Kirby's Dream Land 3 should be as well, since the two games are pretty similar.

-Because of more recent characters: Maybe Sakurai (or whoever in the team was in charge of selecting the spirits) tought that having both Adeleine/Ribbon and Elline would be redundant because they're similar, and choose to put Elline because she's more recent (completely ignoring the fact that Adeleine and Ribbon are classic characters and they have more fans)... though this does not explain why Taranza is not in and there's just Queen Sectonia instead. Maybe they had to cut some spirits and they decided to keep Queen Sectonia instead of Taranza because she looked cooler than him?

-Because they simply forgot: This would be very stupid, but who knows... I think this could be the case of Nova. I can't see them excluding Nova from the spirits if not because they forgot/didn't think about it. Though it's a bit unlikely to forget about Kirby 64 as a whole (no Adeleine, no Ribbon, no 0^2, no K64 artworks for the common characters, just nothing, as if the game doesn't even exist, despite being an important game in the series).

If not one of these stupid reasons, then I hope it's this last one instead:

-Because they are planning something for them: Maybe Adeleine is a DLC newcomer for real? Or maybe they are planning a Kirby event where many Kirby-themed spirits will be released for a limited time like they did with Mario Party? Maybe they excluded those spirits in order to add them later this way.

This is the only reason that would make sense and I seriously hope this is the case, because the former cases all feature some grade of unprofessionality or simply a demonstration of not caring about their work and not doing research.

 

[Team Orchid]

Okay, Iko, I generally agree with your points, but calling Adeleine and Ribbon classic just furthers my belief in that classic (when not used to describe the game mode) just means "old thing that I like but I can't think of a word to actually complement them so I'll use a word that means old but sounds better."

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Okay, Iko, I generally agree with your points, but calling Adeleine and Ribbon classic just furthers my belief in that classic (when not used to describe the game mode) just means "old thing that I like but I can't think of a word to actually complement them so I'll use a word that means old but sounds better."

Classic means that the character is tied with the origins of the series (the first polygonal game), and it's important because its design influenced the series in the subsequent games.
It also means that despite being old, fans never stopped to like the character, and just like what happend on Twitter during the announcement of the Dream Friends, people asked for said character so loudly that someone even created a parody video of the event.
Classic also means that comes from a classic game, in fact if you get the Dream Collection, a collection of classics from the Kirby series, you get 6 games, and one of those is Kirby 64, with Adeleine and Ribbon on the boxart.

About influencing subsequent games, why do you think Susie, Francisca and the other mages, Claycia and Elline even exist? Those humanoid characters with magical skills and occasionally a name that resembles a real person name, Adeleine started the trend, they are all indirectly influenced by her.
People of the Sky (from Triple Deluxe) and Elline are also influenced by Ribbon and the other fairies, and specifically Elline is like a fusion of Ribbon and Adeleine into a single character.

The point is, Elline is a one time character, I doubt she will evere return unless it's a Rainbow Curse remake/porting or direct sequel (unlikely); Adeleine instead appeared in multiple games, and despite all those years of inactivity, she came back in Star Allies (along with Ribbon) as a commemorative character, representing Kirby 64, in a selection of characters that are all important to the history of Kirby (Elline is not in the group, being a spin-off character).

That's what I mean with classic.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Classic is subjective, like most terms thrown around on this forum.

There. I said it.

In all honesty Adeline probably did influence some of the Kirby characters a lot. Susie has an almost matching personality, for example. And I'd say the total reusing of the characters in Star Allies is a great status quo for at least some recognition in Smash, considering how it looked like a lot of Kirby assets were liquidated after 2011.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

It's been a while since I had to dissect a post here. I feel I must do it because oh boy, there is plenty of wrong with all the stuff you are saying. But I have some free time right now and I will have some fun while doing it at the very least.

And my post wasn't even that serious.

Oh, so you were just "pretending"? Ha ha. I guess it's my fault for not treating written language like spoken language.

In all seriousness though, don't be that guy. You said what you said. Poe's law applies here: without the author's clear intent of an exaggeration, it is impossible for the reader to not mistake it for a sincere expression. Learn to take ownership for what you write.

Sure, with the years, I developed a deep dislike for Sakurai's game design philosophies; while I liked Sakurai's games when I was younger, later I realized how stupid most of his elements are...

Look, the man isn't perfect. He makes mistakes but credit goes where credit is due. But let me see what you find so stupid about his design philosophies...

the overall quantity over quality logic,

How so? Are you talking about his other games aside from Smash? Because I can't think of any examples that fit the bill.
Or are you saying that because of "Everyone is here"?

the horrible and confusing menues

In what way?
Those menus are designed to stand out while being functional and easy enough to navigate. They are very user friendly and also help provide personality to the game. The only menu I can think of that drew some criticism was Smash 4's because they were difficult to navigate and contained modes in confusing spots, but that is the exception to the rule.

They are designed by Michiko Sakurai by the way, and I think that she has done a good job. She designed the UI interface for Kirby 64, Kid Icarus, and all Smash games. That includes the character select and stage select screens. This has never been a Sakurai philosophy that people have had serious issues with. Did you find them confusing? If so, when did you decided to start thinking that they were horrible? The menus on Melee, Brawl and Kid Icarus Uprising are properly categorized so you can know where you are going. I think you are either being a contrarian or have short attention span.

I'll elaborate by giving you a breakdown of why the UI from SSB Ultimate's works.
After the title, you are introduced to a screen where all the game's options are assigned by colors. The Switch is a hybrid console, so there are a lot of people who will play the game in handheld mode. The top menu has all the choices seamlessly integrated so the player can clearly see where they can go. The screen looks static at first but when you choose a mode, the menu dynamically opens up into other options. It also has the detail to represent ideas by color (examples: Smash is red, Games and More is blue, Vault is pink) while looking very clean. Almost every option you highlight is associated with a portrait as well.

Games & More is no longer a small button as it was in Smash 4, and you can clearly see Classic Mode upfront when you open it up. Training mode is clearly visible and not as hidden as it was in the previous game.

Spoiler: Games & More

Smash or VS mode, is categorized with the main option being at the top with Squad Strike, Tourney and Special Smash being just below.

Spoiler: Smash Menu

When going into Smash, you can create a rule-set first, then you go into the stage selection screen before the character select screen. This makes sense, as some characters handle themselves better on certain terrains.
The stage selection is arranged by the order they appeared in the series, and show you a preview when you hover your cursor over it. They allow you to choose the music and you can even play it to make sure before making your choice. And if you choose a stage by accident, the game gives you a small window of time to cancel your selection. This is also where the selection order helps as well.
The character selection screen is also arranged by order of appearance. 8 players smash is no longer a separate mode because you can keep adding players on that very same screen until all 8 of them are there. It also remembers your name. And during gameplay, we now have a proper pause menu.

At the right side, you also have a mini menu assigned to the ZR button. Important to note that this menu now grants easy access to options, wireless play and help.
Overall, the UI looks pretty, is very user friendly and is crystal clear in its options; it's one of the best ones they have come up to date. So let me ask again: in what way are those menus horrible and confusing? Even a child wouldn't have trouble finding their way around it. You'd have to come up with some serious mental gymnastics to insist that this is a stupid design element.

the gambling elements

What gambling elements? Are we talking Pokemon Game Corner-esque stuff? Like Final Fantasy VII's gambling? The poker game in FFXIII? I have no idea what gambling elements you refer to.
Is it the coin launcher and lottery mini games? Because those are merely one of several ways to obtain trophies. I don't see how can this become obstructive to the gameplay in any way.
Some games have gambling features that I don't bother touching, like the Game Corner, and the games Sakurai has designed feature none of them.

the ridicolous achievements that require you to repeat the same mode hundreds of times in order to complete the game,

Are you referring to the milestones and notices? Do you realize that is merely the games' way of keeping a record of your playtime, do you?
Smash will tell you when you've played 10000 battles, so what? This doesn't impact gameplay in a negative matter. It is entirely optional and is not a Sakurai specific design, as other games contain similar stuff.
I'm sorry but I think this complaint is extremely dumb, unless you are going to tell me that you "playing" pretend again. If you play the game for the sake of getting that 10000 battles milestone, then that's on you for being a masochist.

the relying on random to complete most of the challenges

I completed all the challenges in Ultimate during the first two weeks, and almost all of the Kid Icarus ones. All of them have very specific conditions that you need to fulfill to complete that challenge. I don't know what randomness you are referring to but I think your memory needs a refresher in this regard.

the gameplay priorities (for example, characters still jump at fixed heights and the launch trajectories are still fixed depending on the move/hitboxes;

Ah yes, the fixed jump heights and the trajectories are a real pro... wait, what? Seriously, what are you talking about? What gameplay priorities?

Buddy, you lost me there. Are you implying that character jump heights should be fluctuating on each button press and that trajectories should always be changing? So what about consistency?
And this isn't even a Sakurai thing. Other fighting games, platformers, adventures games, etc. work like that; most characters jump at a fixed height depending on a button press. You see this in Mario games, Sonic games, Megaman games and Kirby games. You'll have to explain yourself better because that is the most nonsensical thing you've said so far.

the new development goes wasted in some single player mode that nobody asked for and people will forget about in a matter of weeks

This is the part where you rightfully deserve to be called whiny and self entitled. How dare Sakurai and crew work on something that wasn't of your liking? Didn't they understand that they had to appease you, and only YOU?

See, just because you don't care about it, doesn't mean that others don't. I like World of Light, it's my favorite Smash single player campaign for several reasons, and there others who share that opinion as well. I won't forget that mode because of the plethora of video game references it contains. Other people may not feel that way, but do not dare to speak for everyone.

. And my dislike for Sakurai's philosophies start from the beginning, since Kirby Superstar; it's not something that I just say about his recent games.

I sure hated Kirby Super Star's focus on quantity over quality alongside it's gambling elements. I also remember disliking the fact that Kirby jumped at fixed heights and unlocking achievements in that game required me to play certain modes hundreds of times, thus preventing me from enjoying the gameplay. Those challenges relied too much on randomness. The menu was a hot mess to navigate in.
Thank goodness that modern Kirby games never EVER derived anything from that disappointment.
/sarcasm

I haven't bought this Smash game, not because Adeleine is not in, or because Kirby is not well represented, but because grew up to dislike Sakurai's way of making games. Time ago I skipped Kid Icarus Uprising for the same reasons,

So you use that contrived list of embarrassingly ignorant and inaccurate reasons as your guideline to decide whether you skip a game or not? Seems arbitrary. I suppose every platformer is blacklisted because of the "fixed jumping".

I'm pretty much here only because of the 4 DLC characters; if none of them interests me, then I'll just skip this game, and I'm not forcing myself to boycot the game for some childish reason; I'm just not interested in it because none of the new content interest me enough to justify the cost of the game, I can just stay with the old versions (especially Melee).

This is sadly the only sensible thing you said in your post.

And that last sentence is just arrogant, please stop.

Its not arrogance when it's true, friend. A lot of misconceptions float around this fanbase, like the one where people think that a clone character takes the place of their favorite pick. Worst of all is that people care less about having an informed opinion and more about being part of the outrage machine. I hunt down every bit of info I can about the development cycle of these games because I want to eliminate misinformation. A lot of your gripes also come from a lack of proper information. Like you are about to do in the following paragraph.

Back on the subject,
I'm convinced that those spirits have been excluded for stupid reasons, very stupid, that could be one of these:

-Ignorance: HAL sure knows their series, they put many references to all the history of Kirby in their most recent games, and they know how to please their fans. The Smash team though, maybe don't know what are the core elements of the history of the Kirby series, so the balance in the series' representation is all messed up because they don't really know/care. That's obviously very disappointing, they could have asked HAL and payed more attention to this.

You've been convinced yourself without having the means to back that belief, not a good move. The core of the Kirby series are Kirby himself, Meta Knight and Dedede which are the three most recurring characters. I don't know why you somehow think that lacking Nova or Adeline is the Smash team being ignorant of Kirby. It also seems trivial to scrutinize the devs for "missing" a couple of Spirits when they included a great majority of them.

-Sakurai: Yes, on that iron throne... he always tries to push his vision into the projects he works on as far as he can, even if they're not his IPs

You realize that that is the job they hired him for, do you? Do you know what being a director is? Nintendo clearly hired Sakurai because they wanted him to lead a group of people and pour his vision on the project they were working on. What is wrong about that? This is yet another ridiculous gripe you seem to have.

I've read an interview where he has said that he didn't want to change Villager's neck but he had to,

*audible gasp*

...And? He was initially reluctant to change Villager's neck but did it anyway. What are you trying to imply here?

he complained that they forced him to change Wii Fit Trainer's face, during a Nintendo Direct (I know that's not him directly working on the model, I'm not stupid, but he still complained about the decision).

*sigh*

He said that he changed Wii Fit Trainer's face due to a request from the Wii Fit team. How in the hell is that complaining? Did you watch the same direct we all did? You are just making up stuff now.
Perhaps you do have short attention span after all.

And he "fought" with Miyamoto about Kirby's color, so much that they had to make him white on the cover of the first game because they still had no idea of what color to choose between Miyamoto's yellow and Sakurai's pink.

He created Kirby. He wanted him to be pink. He rightfully stood up his ground against Miyamoto for his creative vision. Exactly what did he do wrong here? Wouldn't you do the same if you were in his shoes?

So, this is just a supposition

Let's call it an asspull. Much more fitting.

but it's possible that he dislikes some of the Kirby games because they go against his original vision of the franchise, and he does everything in his power to exclude content from those games into his works.

Current Kirby games are very close to Sakurai's vision. Most of them resemble Kirby Super Star in many ways. I doubt he has place in his world to be that petty.

(after all, he's the one who made that "no human characters" rule when the Kirby anime was in development, that's probably the reason why Adeleine didn't appear in the anime).

So is this what this is about? Sakurai excluded your favorite waifu from the anime and you had a hate boner for him since then?
This is such a petty thing to torch him for. Again, Sakurai was involved in the creation of the anime and he is the creator of Kirby. There is nothing wrong with him not wanting humans in it at the time. If that's his vision then it has to be respected. And I can see where he was coming from, humans in a Kirby game come a little bit off to me which is why me nor my brother ever cared much about Adeline. I vastly prefer the other characters.

-Because of more recent characters: Maybe Sakurai (or whoever in the team was in charge of selecting the spirits) tought that having both Adeleine/Ribbon and Elline would be redundant because they're similar, and choose to put Elline because she's more recent (completely ignoring the fact that Adeleine and Ribbon are classic characters and they have more fans)... though this does not explain why Taranza is not in and there's just Queen Sectonia instead. Maybe they had to cut some spirits and they decided to keep Queen Sectonia instead of Taranza because she looked cooler than him?

Here are several other thoughts:
-maybe they never planned to have them from the beginning.
-maybe they did plan to have them, but time, resources, etc. Making a game can be a convoluted process and sometimes things don't leave their beta stage.
-I don't know why you think you are owed an explanation (You are not even buying the game anyways). It's not their obligation to add those spirits just because you think they do.

-Because they simply forgot: This would be very stupid, but who knows... I think this could be the case of Nova. I can't see them excluding Nova from the spirits if not because they forgot/didn't think about it. Though it's a bit unlikely to forget about Kirby 64 as a whole (no Adeleine, no Ribbon, no 0^2, no K64 artworks for the common characters, just nothing, as if the game doesn't even exist, despite being an important game in the series).

Or because they weren't obligated to do it.

-Because they are planning something for them: Maybe Adeleine is a DLC newcomer for real? Or maybe they are planning a Kirby event where many Kirby-themed spirits will be released for a limited time like they did with Mario Party? Maybe they excluded those spirits in order to add them later this way.

This is the only reason that would make sense and I seriously hope this is the case, because the former cases all feature some grade of unprofessionality or simply a demonstration of not caring about their work and not doing research.

Confusing the fact that attending to your personal whims is having some degree of professionalism.


For the record Iko, I don't take back what I said in my previous posts. In fact, let's add more stuff to that list, shall we:
Based on this post alone, your gripes regarding Sakurai's design philosophies seem utterly trivial. You discuss about gambling elements that have little to no presence in his games, the randomness of the challenges which is just false and exaggerate the influence of milestones on the game's experience. The only gameplay aspect you talked about makes no sense whatsoever and is an aspect that is present in almost every action game, so you'll need to clarify that one for us.
You also appear to have this idea that his job is to bend to your personal whims rather than following a vision of his own, like his job description would suggest. For some reason, you have a problem with him being firm on creative decisions like Kirby's color scheme (Which I figure we were supposed to take it as proof of his lack of worth as a game dev, somehow). You embraced the iron throne metaphor too much and that shows me that you simply see yourself as a self made victim here.
Your remarks were self centered as well. It's ok if you like Adeline, but you seem to be under the impression that they somehow have to put her in and have to provide you explanations on what they don't include. I didn't take kindly to your comment about "wasting" development on the single player campaign because that shows a degree of self entitlement. That's why I think you deserve no sympathy whatsoever.
The over emotional responses don't help you either.
Don't expect anything from the DLC. You are close minded and set already to dislike this game for having Sakurai's name on it.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

It's been a while since I had to dissect a post here. I feel I must do it because oh boy, there is plenty of wrong with all the stuff you are saying. But I have some free time right now and I will have some fun while doing it at the very least.



Oh, so you were just "pretending"? Ha ha. I guess it's my fault for not treating written language like spoken language.

In all seriousness though, don't be that guy. You said what you said. Poe's law applies here: without the author's clear intent of an exaggeration, it is impossible for the reader to not mistake it for a sincere expression. Learn to take ownership for what you write.



Look, the man isn't perfect. He makes mistakes but credit goes where credit is due. But let me see what you find so stupid about his design philosophies...



How so? Are you talking about his other games aside from Smash? Because I can't think of any examples that fit the bill.
Or are you saying that because of "Everyone is here"?



In what way?
Those menus are designed to stand out while being functional and easy enough to navigate. They are very user friendly and also help provide personality to the game. The only menu I can think of that drew some criticism was Smash 4's because they were difficult to navigate and contained modes in confusing spots, but that is the exception to the rule.

They are designed by Michiko Sakurai by the way, and I think that she has done a good job. She designed the UI interface for Kirby 64, Kid Icarus, and all Smash games. That includes the character select and stage select screens. This has never been a Sakurai philosophy that people have had serious issues with. Did you find them confusing? If so, when did you decided to start thinking that they were horrible? The menus on Melee, Brawl and Kid Icarus Uprising are properly categorized so you can know where you are going. I think you are either being a contrarian or have short attention span.

I'll elaborate by giving you a breakdown of why the UI from SSB Ultimate's works.
After the title, you are introduced to a screen where all the game's options are assigned by colors. The Switch is a hybrid console, so there are a lot of people who will play the game in handheld mode. The top menu has all the choices seamlessly integrated so the player can clearly see where they can go. The screen looks static at first but when you choose a mode, the menu dynamically opens up into other options. It also has the detail to represent ideas by color (examples: Smash is red, Games and More is blue, Vault is pink) while looking very clean. Almost every option you highlight is associated with a portrait as well.

Games & More is no longer a small button as it was in Smash 4, and you can clearly see Classic Mode upfront when you open it up. Training mode is clearly visible and not as hidden as it was in the previous game.

Spoiler: Games & More

Smash or VS mode, is categorized with the main option being at the top with Squad Strike, Tourney and Special Smash being just below.

Spoiler: Smash Menu

When going into Smash, you can create a rule-set first, then you go into the stage selection screen before the character select screen. This makes sense, as some characters handle themselves better on certain terrains.
The stage selection is arranged by the order they appeared in the series, and show you a preview when you hover your cursor over it. They allow you to choose the music and you can even play it to make sure before making your choice. And if you choose a stage by accident, the game gives you a small window of time to cancel your selection. This is also where the selection order helps as well.
The character selection screen is also arranged by order of appearance. 8 players smash is no longer a separate mode because you can keep adding players on that very same screen until all 8 of them are there. It also remembers your name. And during gameplay, we now have a proper pause menu.

At the right side, you also have a mini menu assigned to the ZR button. Important to note that this menu now grants easy access to options, wireless play and help.
Overall, the UI looks pretty, is very user friendly and is crystal clear in its options; it's one of the best ones they have come up to date. So let me ask again: in what way are those menus horrible and confusing? Even a child wouldn't have trouble finding their way around it. You'd have to come up with some serious mental gymnastics to insist that this is a stupid design element.



What gambling elements? Are we talking Pokemon Game Corner-esque stuff? Like Final Fantasy VII's gambling? The poker game in FFXIII? I have no idea what gambling elements you refer to.
Is it the coin launcher and lottery mini games? Because those are merely one of several ways to obtain trophies. I don't see how can this become obstructive to the gameplay in any way.
Some games have gambling features that I don't bother touching, like the Game Corner, and the games Sakurai has designed feature none of them.



Are you referring to the milestones and notices? Do you realize that is merely the games' way of keeping a record of your playtime, do you?
Smash will tell you when you've played 10000 battles, so what? This doesn't impact gameplay in a negative matter. It is entirely optional and is not a Sakurai specific design, as other games contain similar stuff.
I'm sorry but I think this complaint is extremely dumb, unless you are going to tell me that you "playing" pretend again. If you play the game for the sake of getting that 10000 battles milestone, then that's on you for being a masochist.



I completed all the challenges in Ultimate during the first two weeks, and almost all of the Kid Icarus ones. All of them have very specific conditions that you need to fulfill to complete that challenge. I don't know what randomness you are referring to but I think your memory needs a refresher in this regard.



Ah yes, the fixed jump heights and the trajectories are a real pro... wait, what? Seriously, what are you talking about? What gameplay priorities?

Buddy, you lost me there. Are you implying that character jump heights should be fluctuating on each button press and that trajectories should always be changing? So what about consistency?
And this isn't even a Sakurai thing. Other fighting games, platformers, adventures games, etc. work like that; most characters jump at a fixed height depending on a button press. You see this in Mario games, Sonic games, Megaman games and Kirby games. You'll have to explain yourself better because that is the most nonsensical thing you've said so far.




This is the part where you rightfully deserve to be called whiny and self entitled. How dare Sakurai and crew work on something that wasn't of your liking? Didn't they understand that they had to appease you, and only YOU?

See, just because you don't care about it, doesn't mean that others don't. I like World of Light, it's my favorite Smash single player campaign for several reasons, and there others who share that opinion as well. I won't forget that mode because of the plethora of video game references it contains. Other people may not feel that way, but do not dare to speak for everyone.



I sure hated Kirby Super Star's focus on quantity over quality alongside it's gambling elements. I also remember disliking the fact that Kirby jumped at fixed heights and unlocking achievements in that game required me to play certain modes hundreds of times, thus preventing me from enjoying the gameplay. Those challenges relied too much on randomness. The menu was a hot mess to navigate in.
/sarcasm





So you use that contrived list of embarrassingly ignorant and inaccurate reasons as your guideline to decide whether you skip a game or not? Seems arbitrary. I suppose every platformer is blacklisted because of the "fixed jumping".



This is sadly the only sensible thing you said in your post.



Its not arrogance when it's true, friend. A lot of misconceptions float around this fanbase, like the one where people think that a clone character takes the place of their favorite pick. Worst of all is that people care less about having an informed opinion and more about being part of the outrage machine. I hunt down every bit of info I can about the development cycle of these games because I want to eliminate misinformation. A lot of your gripes also come from a lack of proper information. Like you are about to do in the following paragraph.



You've been convinced yourself without having the means to back that belief, not a good move. The core of the Kirby series are Kirby himself, Meta Knight and Dedede which are the three most recurring characters. I don't know why you somehow think that lacking Nova or Adeline is the Smash team being ignorant of Kirby. It also seems trivial to scrutinize the devs for "missing" a couple of Spirits when they included a great majority of them.



You realize that that is the job they hired him for, do you? Do you know what being a director is? Nintendo clearly hired Sakurai because they wanted him to lead a group of people and pour his vision on the project they were working on. What is wrong about that? This is yet another ridiculous gripe you seem to have.



*audible gasp*

...And? He was initially reluctant to change Villager's neck but did it anyway. What are you trying to imply here?



*sigh*

He said that he changed Wii Fit Trainer's face due to a request from the Wii Fit team. How in the hell is that complaining? Did you watch the same direct we all did? You are just making up stuff now.
Perhaps you do have short attention span after all.



He created Kirby. He wanted him to be pink. He rightfully stood up his ground against Miyamoto for his creative vision. Exactly what did he do wrong here? Wouldn't you do the same if you were in his shoes?




Let's call it an asspull. Much more fitting.



Current Kirby games are very close to Sakurai's vision. Most of them resemble Kirby Super Star in many ways. I doubt he has place in his world to be that petty.



So is this what this is about? Sakurai excluded your favorite waifu from the anime and you had a hate boner for him since then?
This is such a petty thing to torch him for. Again, Sakurai was involved in the creation of the anime and he is the creator of Kirby. There is nothing wrong with him not wanting humans in it at the time. If that's his vision then it has to be respected. And I can see where he was coming from, humans in a Kirby game come a little bit off to me which is why me nor my brother ever cared much about Adeline. I vastly prefer the other characters.



Here are several other thoughts:
-maybe they never planned to have them from the beginning.
-maybe they did plan to have them, but time, resources, etc. Making a game can be a convoluted process and sometimes things don't leave their beta stage.
-I don't know why you think you are owed an explanation (You are not even buying the game anyways). It's not their obligation to add those spirits just because you think they do.



Or because they weren't obligated to do it.



Confusing the fact that attending to your personal whims is having some degree of professionalism.


For the record Iko, I don't take back what I said in my previous posts. In fact, let's add more stuff to that list, shall we:
Based on this post alone, your gripes regarding Sakurai's design philosophies seem utterly trivial. You discuss about gambling elements that have little to no presence in his games, the randomness of the challenges which is just false and exaggerate the influence of milestones on the game's experience. The only gameplay aspect you talked about makes no sense whatsoever and is an aspect that is present in almost every action game, so you'll need to clarify that one for us.
You also appear to have this idea that his job is to bend to your personal whims rather than following a vision of his own, like his job description would suggest. For some reason, you have a problem with him being firm on creative decisions like Kirby's color scheme (Which I figure we were supposed to take it as proof of his lack of worth as a game dev, somehow). You embraced the iron throne metaphor too much and that shows me that you simply see yourself as a self made victim here.
Your remarks were self centered as well. It's ok if you like Adeline, but you seem to be under the impression that they somehow have to put her in and have to provide you explanations on what they don't include. I didn't take kindly to your comment about "wasting" development on the single player campaign because that shows a degree of self entitlement. That's why I think you deserve no sympathy whatsoever.
The over emotional responses don't help you either.
Don't expect anything from the DLC. You are close minded and set already to dislike this game for having Sakurai's name on it.

I REALLY don't want to interrupt... but are you even concerned for the way Kirby is handled in Smash? IIRC you have done nothing but respond with accusations of pettiness. If you have something resourceful to say about the matter please do. It's alright if you disagree with the topic, but not with unfounded entitlement.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The one thing that seems quite clear is that Sakurai prefers to use his own creations over the ones that he had no involvement in making. This is pretty much why Kirby, Dedede, and Meta Knight are the only playables from the Kirby series, while Marx gets the boss treatment. Everything else was, well, limited to being mere Spirits.

 

[Captain Shades]

The one thing that seems quite clear is that Sakurai prefers to use his own creations over the ones that he had no involvement in making. This is pretty much why Kirby, Dedede, and Meta Knight are the only playables from the Kirby series, while Marx gets the boss treatment. Everything else was, well, limited to being mere Spirits.

I can respect that...

I may want Bandana Dee and consider him a main character, but this is Sakurai’s game and he has done well with the Kirby cast, I just want more of a touch of new content. Honestly, my main issue is really the Smash 4 stages, I wish they were modern or, if we had to stay in the 3 games, more timely with something like Dedede’s Castle as it feels like it represents Kirby as a whole. (I like Halberd for this reason).

Other than that Sakurai has done a great job with Smash with Brawl and Ultimate truly being his best work, and I cannot wait for the crazy DLC that will come. My fingers are crossed for Steve as Sakurai seems to enjoy Minecraft and he could be a fun character.


Ryu Myuutsu , well said. Honestly, I completely agree with you even if I don’t exactly agree with the ways Sakurai treats Kirby. You handled your points very well and were respectful with a hint of sarcasm. I hope to see you stick around on this thread.

-Also, you could have mentioned that HAL may not have had any proper images of Adeline for the spirit, may be a stretch, but it is possible that image hunting for some characters proved fruitless. Plus other big names didn’t get spirits...ahem...ahem...Porky!

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I REALLY don't want to interrupt... but are you even concerned for the way Kirby is handled in Smash? IIRC you have done nothing but respond with accusations of pettiness. If you have something resourceful to say about the matter please do. It's alright if you disagree with the topic, but not with unfounded entitlement.

I actually spoke my piece very early into this thread so I don't have a lot else to say about the subject matter, so as you say I have nothing resourceful to add, I'm sticking around because the discussion veered into a fun direction.

I will say though that I don't have an issue with the handling of the Kirby franchise in Smash and we may never know the real reason behind why Sakurai is less prone to use content from modern titles. I doubt is some kind of beef between him and the team at HAL as our friend over there implied, because he left the company in good terms and mentioned something about leaving the Kirby series in good hands and HAL loves to refer Smash material into their games. If I have to make some kind of guess, I would think that they probably see Sakurai as a senior figure and out of respect prefer to stick with the OG Kirby stuff he worked on. That would be a very Japanese thing if true; in a working environment, others tend to act in a more submissive manner towards older people in higher positions.

Something that was brought to my attention in a recent did you know gaming video that was released two days ago was that Sakurai explains that they just can't do anything they want; they have to get approval from the original creators and reflect their feedback.

 

[Buuhan]

Sakurai also said that Ridley would not be in Smash Bros, that Smash Bros. would not feature real guns, that he would not include fighters from other fighting games, etc. I take anything he says with a grain of salt.

Kirby is simple but Cloud is even simpler and Cloud could have survived by juggling the beams with his Uair so Cloud would have been a better pick.

I think that Kirby fits better to the story. And, cloud is much less simple then Kirby imo.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

well said. Honestly, I completely agree with you even if I don’t exactly agree with the ways Sakurai treats Kirby. You handled your points very well and were respectful with a hint of sarcasm. I hope to see you stick around on this thread.

no, he wasn't. Especially when he used the word "waifu". I don't care if I will get in trouble for saying this, but a person who says this about me goes instantly in my ignore list, no matter if he was sarcastic or serious. I have no respect for him.

-Also, you could have mentioned that HAL may not have had any proper images of Adeline for the spirit, may be a stretch, but it is possible that image hunting for some characters proved fruitless. Plus other big names didn’t get spirits...ahem...ahem...Porky!

Yeah that's possible too... but they had a pucture of her in Kirby Planet Robobot... they could have used it. Maybe it was too low resolution or something...?
Anyway, let's not forget that Taranza is in the same situation as Adeleine, and they had an artwork for him. Nah, I think this is not possible.

And it's not just Adeleine the problem, as I said before, it's Kirby 64 in general that's missing... Triple Deluxe is represented by Queen Sectonia, even without Taranza; Kirby 64 instead is completely missing from the spirits; that's very strange.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

OK
Can we all calm down here
We need to remember that this entire thread is purely speculation and that we can't actually prove anything.

The noticeable pattern is that the vast majority of Kirby content in Smash are from the games that Sakurai designed. I'll admit that it's strange that Kirby 64 lacks any spirits and that both Taranza and Adeline are absent, but let's be sensible instead of throwing around terms like "waifu" and making posts a mile long attacking each other.

Can we all just take a minute to breathe and continue the discussion this thread was meant to be?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

no, he wasn't. Especially when he used the word "waifu". I don't care if I will get in trouble for saying this, but a person who says this about me goes instantly in my ignore list, no matter if he was sarcastic or serious. I have no respect for him.
.

It's mutual man. Mine was plummeting while I was reading those silly contrived points you came up with . Like, did you write all of that with a straight face?

But I guess the world will never know what you meant by "fixed heights". It will always crack me up though.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

The possibility that new Kirby spirits will be introduced via a spirit event and then be available through the shop is very likely. I'd bet that "missing" spirits were simply sidelined so we could get them later. Let's not jump to conclusions yet.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

We need to remember that this entire thread is purely speculation and that we can't actually prove anything.

Exactly, as I have already stated in one of my previous post.

The possibility that new Kirby spirits will be introduced via a spirit event and then be available through the shop is very likely. I'd bet that "missing" spirits were simply sidelined so we could get them later. Let's not jump to conclusions yet.

And I covered this too.
That's a possibility as well, and the possibility that I hope will be the real one.

Though, I think that a new Kirby game needs to be announced if we are going to get those spirits as a promotional event (wasn't the Mario Party event promoting Super Mario Party as well?). So... even if it's a bit unlikely and the annoyance of the missing spirits is bigger than the hope of getting them later, this makes me hopeful that we'll get a mainline Kirby game that's big enough to deserve a promotional event in Smash (and hopefully those two characters will be implemented in the game in some way).

I'm still convinced that Sylux is missing too because they were planning to make a promotional event for MP4 and Sylux would have been added in that occasion (if not as a DLC newcomer). Because of the delay, we'll probably have to wait a lot more.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

It's kind of sad how as a result of (presumably) Sakurai bias Kirby representation in Smash is nothing more than a watered-down shell of what Kirby games actually are. It's ridiculous how we haven't had a Kirby newcomer in over a decade.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

What's really funny about this discussion is that Sakurai himself has said before that he specifically doesn't put in a ton of Kirby content because he doesn't want to seem like he's playing favorites with his own creation, yet some people accuse him of being biased towards the older side of the series when he doesn't cram a bunch of Kirby into the game. I love Kirby games too, but like... Smash has the right amount in my opinion. Marx is even the coolest regular boss fight in this game, which is great.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

This is an interesting topic I only just found now.

I don't think that Sakurai is intentionally going out of his way to exclude modern Kirby representation. I can understand why the stages are all from older Kirby games. A lot of the time, like it or not, and you can see this with lots of different media, old versions of things are usually considered classics, the most famous, and are generally the most popular. Look at Star Wars, the original trilogy will always be the most famous/popular. Same with the original Pac-Man arcade game, the first two Banjo-Kazooie games, the list goes on. The Kirby stages in Ultimate are iconic, well known to lots of folks and beloved as classics. So if Sakurai is only adding Kirby stages based on the most iconic locations, I can definitely see why there are no modern Kirby stages. HOWEVER, do I think it's the right way to go about it? Yes, but let me explain.

Not trying to burst any bubbles here, but Zelda and Mario are definitely more popular than Kirby. Most of the hard work put in for stages was bringing back old ones, there's very few new ones so it makes sense that the most popular franchises would be the ones with new stages. If it was any other Smash game and not Ultimate, then I'd be complaining as well. But it's not like Kirby is the odd one out here because 90% of the franchises represented didn't get a new stage in this game. Ultimate is not your typical Smash game. Because they included tons and tons and tons of content, of course some franchises will be more represented than others. But in Smash 6 once they go back to the regular style of Smash, I'm sure we'll get a new Kirby stage because then there won't be a hassle trying to juggle making new stages and recreating old ones.

As for a modern Kirby rep, I say why the hell is there not one? Just because and are the main characters of the franchise doesn't mean Kirby characters must be excluded to only them. There's lots of Kirby characters worthy of becoming a fighter in Smash, so I don't really understand this. I think what Sakurai isn't realizing is that while he doesn't want to make it seem like he's favoring his own creation, he's only disservicing Kirby fans. He's gotta get over himself and realize that he hasn't been in charge of Kirby for years, so including modern Kirby characters wouldn't make it seem like he's full of himself. By excluding modern Kirby characters, he's doing the exact opposite of what he intended making himself look like he's full of himself! If people didn't think that, this thread wouldn't exist or have reached 7 pages.

At the end of the day, Kirby in Smash has become this really odd gray area and it's just a shame. Kirby is one of the most popular Nintendo franchises. I'm not talking about popular like Star Fox and Metroid (not to downplay their popularity), I'm talking about right below the likes of Mario and Zelda. So Kirby fans shouldn't be put in a position where they have to speculate if they'll get a new stage or character, because with Mario and Zelda, one of those are a given for each Smash game. I don't know, just my two cents. We need some more Kirby representation out there, more modern Kirby. Just give me Bandana Dee and we'll be square, Sakurai.

 

[Boo_Destroyer]

Iko MattOrr Ryu Myuutsu wasn't actually being rude. He was calling you out for making such a ridiculous statement back there. When one posts a noticeable fallacy of logic, people around won't hesitate to break down on it. Just the way things operate.

What's really funny about this discussion is that Sakurai himself has said before that he specifically doesn't put in a ton of Kirby content because he doesn't want to seem like he's playing favorites with his own creation

Where was this ever said?

He doesn't even own the Kirby franchise/characters, and it's annoying as hell how he still acts like he does. It all still belongs to HAL. Lots of other people have worked on the franchise too, and their input is important. The current guy leading the new Kirby games, Shinya Kumazaki, is still not visible enough for this reason, and that's really discouraging and insulting.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

Iko MattOrr Ryu Myuutsu wasn't actually being rude. He was calling you out for making such a ridiculous statement back there. When one posts a noticeable fallacy of logic, people around won't hesitate to break down on it. Just the way things operate.


Where was this ever said?

He doesn't even own the Kirby franchise/characters, and it's annoying as hell how he still acts like he does. It all still belongs to HAL. Lots of other people have worked on the franchise too, and their input is important. The current guy leading the new Kirby games, Shinya Kumazaki, is still not visible enough for this reason, and that's really discouraging and insulting.

I'm probably not going to dig around for it, but he said it in an old interview about aome of the struggles of choosing characters. Anyways, on your other point, he doesn't run the Kirby franchise anymore, but he *does* direct Smash, and he chooses not to put in more Kirby because he doesn't feel like he needs to, or that it would bring enough to the table, or whatever other reasons he has. If you think about it in the way that we wouldn't have even half the characters we do now without his and his team's creativity and choices, then I can handle taking a small hit in my favorite franchises. Yeah, it'd be dope to play as Amaterasu, or Terra, or Sol Badguy, but at the same time, I never ever EVER would have asked for Solid Snake, literally any Fire Emblem character, or even Sheik, but I have an amazing time with those characters and I'm very thankful to have been introduced to them or otherwise shown how fun they could be. Plus, I really don't think the director of games this important really has time to be petty about junk like not wanting to use new characters from his old franchise just because it wasn't his idea. I'm sure he isn't perfect, but I'm also sure he isn't a child, so I doubt he intentionally leaves stuff out just to be a d***.

#opinions

P.S. of course at the end of the day I still want more characters that I personally feel attached to, but like....

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Iko MattOrr Ryu Myuutsu wasn't actually being rude. He was calling you out for making such a ridiculous statement back there. When one posts a noticeable fallacy of logic, people around won't hesitate to break down on it. Just the way things operate.

Can we stop talking about this?
He has been rude, putting personal attacks in his posts, and his huge wall of text that I haven't even read completely, has many of my statements took out of context and and he altered the meaning of my sentences to make them look wrong (like the part about Kirby's color, completely different than what I originally meant).
My statement was no way ridicolous, I still believe in what I said, and I won't take that back because a jerk who considers himself superior to everyone and spends his life calling others petty and entitled doesn't like what I said.
This is a community board of a video game series, I'm not forced to write each post like an essay, I can make a post with some exagerated statements such as "to make the fans salty" just for the sake of making it more funny to read.
Because that's the "ridicolous statement".

Anyway he blamed me to be misinformed and to spread misinformation, while in the same post he demonstrated to be misinformed as well; in Smash and Kirby Superstar the jump height can't be adjusted with the pression of the button, you are forced to jump the same height every single jump. Smash has 2 heights, there's that short jump option, but it's still another fixed jump, no way to alter it. This, along with many other elements such as the input lag and move buffer, make the platforming sections of smash very annoying and frustrating. It's not much of a problem since they solved by removed most of the platforming sections from Smash... In Kirby Superstar luckily there's no input lag, but the jump mechanics still make the platforming annoying, and that's the reason why the level design is very bland and the game focuses mainly on miniboss rooms and horde rooms, or occasionally puzzles (mainly in Great Cave Offensive). No, the modern Kirby games are not like that, they are much better, both controls wise and level-design wise.
I have mentioned those gameplay elements as an example that the physics engine of Smash didn't evolve and it's still very basic; the fact that most of the action platformers do have features that the Smash engine still doesn't is the proof of this, but there are many more elements that I purposely didn't mention because they are off-topic and too long to talk about here. I have a very long review of Kirby Superstar that I posted on Reddit some years ago, and I could post that if someone is interested in why I don't like that game, but this is not the right place to talk about that.

Also he assumed a lot of stuff on me, such as that I dislike games because of Sakurai's name, when Kirby's Adventure (a game that has Sakurai's name written on it) is still one of my favorite Kirby, and so is Super Smash Bros Melee. It's not Sakurai the problem, but when he applies some of his game design concepts to games. Collecting those Mii hats in Smash 4 still hurts me.

And I wish this will be the last time I have to talk about this argument, please let's talk about the topic of the thread, not about my comments and my opinions.

 

[Boo_Destroyer]

Okay, my bad.

Also, hardly anyone knew who Sakurai was before Brawl was announced. He was more publicly known after that.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

My statement was no way ridicolous, I still believe in what I said,

Ohohohohohohohoho!!

People, forgive me for this moment of childlike behavior.

The lack of self awareness here is so strong that you can't even see the irony in your words. I'll just put a list of ridiculous statements you said that caught my eye:

And my post wasn't even that serious.

the overall quantity over quality logic

the horrible and confusing menues

the gambling elements,

the ridicolous achievements that require you to repeat the same mode hundreds of times in order to complete the game

the relying on random to complete most of the challenges, the gameplay priorities

I'm convinced that those spirits have been excluded for stupid reasons

Sakurai: Yes, on that iron throne... he always tries to push his vision into the projects he works on as far as he can, even if they're not his IPs

he complained that they forced him to change Wii Fit Trainer's face

And he "fought" with Miyamoto about Kirby's color

Because they are planning something for them: Maybe Adeleine is a DLC newcomer for real? Or maybe they are planning a Kirby event where many Kirby-themed spirits will be released for a limited time like they did with Mario Party? Maybe they excluded those spirits in order to add them later this way.

This is the only reason that would make sense and I seriously hope this is the case, because the former cases all feature some grade of unprofessionality or simply a demonstration of not caring about their work and not doing research.

It's no secret that I think that people aren't really entitled to their own opinions but rather their right to what they can argue for it. People need to know how to construct and defend an argument, and know when a belief becomes indefensible.
And you know, the fact that you blindly believe in everything you said so far is what is most concerning. Some might even say arrogant. It's like you think you can do no wrong or at least shouldn't use facts at all.
I didn't take anything you said out of context. But the fact that me and also others here see the blatantly silly statements is telling on perhaps how little you elaborated.

Anyway he blamed me to be misinformed and to spread misinformation, while in the same post he demonstrated to be misinformed as well; in Smash and Kirby Superstar the jump height can't be adjusted with the pression of the button, you are forced to jump the same height every single jump. Smash has 2 heights, there's that short jump option, but it's still another fixed jump, no way to alter it. This, along with many other elements such as the input lag and move buffer, make the platforming sections of smash very annoying and frustrating. It's not much of a problem since they solved by removed most of the platforming sections from Smash... In Kirby Superstar luckily there's no input lag, but the jump mechanics still make the platforming annoying, and that's the reason why the level design is very bland and the game focuses mainly on miniboss rooms and horde rooms, or occasionally puzzles (mainly in Great Cave Offensive). No, the modern Kirby games are not like that, they are much better, both controls wise and level-design wise.

Buddy, what misinformation did I say?
I am well aware of the fixed jump height in Kirby Super Star and Smash. I wasn't arguing against that. I was arguing against the silliness of the complaint towards the concept when that is a standard in several platform games and almost every fighting game, and is not a Sakurai-patented philosophy.
What I find sillier is why you would want to meticulously alter the jump height in a fighting game when it could become counterintuitive to gameplay. Smash has stuck with a short hop and a full hop until for a very good reason. Explain to me why in blazes you think that is such a good idea (I mean, I know you won't bother because it's a very flawed argument but its worth the try, right?)

This is a community board of a video game series, I'm not forced to write each post like an essay, I can make a post with some exagerated statements such as "to make the fans salty" just for the sake of making it more funny to read.
Because that's the "ridicolous statement".

Let me tell you a little something. When you make a claim, any claim where your readership might interpret it as you intending to share a true fact, you owe them an explanation of why you reached that conclusion. Sure, you can just quietly disappear and pretend like nothing ever happened. You can certainly do that but it doesn't mean you should. It's what I said earlier, take ownership for what you write.
I write for an online magazine every week. I am responsible for sharing information to people, so I need to make sure my sources are accurate and make sure everything I write is true. If I ever, willingly or not, spread misinformation then you can damn know for sure that I'll take the responsibility for that.

I'm not perfect. Neither are you. If I am wrong, I rather get called on it and take input from others to right that knowledge rather than fooling myself for the rest of my life. But hey, you keep lying to yourself if that's what you want, Iko.

 

[Boo_Destroyer]

Alright, to get back on track here...

I'm probably not going to dig around for it, but he said it in an old interview about aome of the struggles of choosing characters. Anyways, on your other point, he doesn't run the Kirby franchise anymore, but he *does* direct Smash, and he chooses not to put in more Kirby because he doesn't feel like he needs to, or that it would bring enough to the table, or whatever other reasons he has. If you think about it in the way that we wouldn't have even half the characters we do now without his and his team's creativity and choices, then I can handle taking a small hit in my favorite franchises. Yeah, it'd be dope to play as Amaterasu, or Terra, or Sol Badguy, but at the same time, I never ever EVER would have asked for Solid Snake, literally any Fire Emblem character, or even Sheik, but I have an amazing time with those characters and I'm very thankful to have been introduced to them or otherwise shown how fun they could be. Plus, I really don't think the director of games this important really has time to be petty about junk like not wanting to use new characters from his old franchise just because it wasn't his idea. I'm sure he isn't perfect, but I'm also sure he isn't a child, so I doubt he intentionally leaves stuff out just to be a d***.

#opinions

P.S. of course at the end of the day I still want more characters that I personally feel attached to, but like....

Yeah, there hasn’t really been any favoring towards Kirby in Smash so far. In fact, Kirby has it just average as far as I can see, just like most other franchises in the game.

Sure, Meta Knight was OP in Brawl, but that was likely unintentional and thus rectified in Smash 4.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

Alright, to get back on track here...


Yeah, there hasn’t really been any favoring towards Kirby in Smash so far. In fact, Kirby has it just average as far as I can see, just like most other franchises in the game.

Sure, Meta Knight was OP in Brawl, but that was likely unintentional and thus rectified in Smash 4.

Yeah, I think it's been pretty fair to every franchise that can afford the characters. Fire Emblem and Pokemon are special cases for various reasons. If anything, I'd love to see more obscure franchises represented, but that's another topic.