-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Guide Roy's Match-Up Chart thread
- Thread starter t3h Icy
- Start date
exarch
doot doot doot
Bowser 55-45
CF 45-55
Doc 40-60, though my somewhat recent experience has made me think this might be worse.
DK 50-50
Falco 40-60
Fox 45-55
Ganon 30-70
G&W 65-35 potentially better. Maybe Roy's best matchup.
IC's 15-85 potentially worse
Jiggs 45-55 maybe better. I like this matchup more daily, though I need to play it a bit more.
Kirby 45-55 I have no idea on this matchup so I won't change it. I suspect it's in Roy's favor though.
Link 50-50 Adamant that this is even, as it might be the matchup I have most experience in.
Luigi 30-70 Yes he's as difficult as Ganon/Sheik. Counter might tip the scales back some though.
Mario 40-60
Marth 35-65 I suspect this might be significantly better as well. Roy has a HUGE amount of unexplored combos on Marth, and edgeguards him pretty brutally.
Mewtwo 50-50 M2's light enough to kill outright rather than edgeguard. I don't know off the top of my head who wins the CC battle, but whoever does probably has a small advantage.
Ness 50-50 Haven't played it in forever. Can't really edgeguard him well because you can't go far off the level. Otherwise Roy would win easy.
Peach 30-70 Maybe worse. But I'm terrible against peach with anyone.
Pichu 60-40 Sure, why not?
Pikachu 45-55
Samus 30-70 Basically equivalent to the Peach matchup.
Shiek 30-70
Yoshi 50-50 Maybe better, but pretty close.
Y. Link 55-45 Maybe even
Zelda 50-50 Until Cosmo convinces me otherwise
CF 45-55
Doc 40-60, though my somewhat recent experience has made me think this might be worse.
DK 50-50
Falco 40-60
Fox 45-55
Ganon 30-70
G&W 65-35 potentially better. Maybe Roy's best matchup.
IC's 15-85 potentially worse
Jiggs 45-55 maybe better. I like this matchup more daily, though I need to play it a bit more.
Kirby 45-55 I have no idea on this matchup so I won't change it. I suspect it's in Roy's favor though.
Link 50-50 Adamant that this is even, as it might be the matchup I have most experience in.
Luigi 30-70 Yes he's as difficult as Ganon/Sheik. Counter might tip the scales back some though.
Mario 40-60
Marth 35-65 I suspect this might be significantly better as well. Roy has a HUGE amount of unexplored combos on Marth, and edgeguards him pretty brutally.
Mewtwo 50-50 M2's light enough to kill outright rather than edgeguard. I don't know off the top of my head who wins the CC battle, but whoever does probably has a small advantage.
Ness 50-50 Haven't played it in forever. Can't really edgeguard him well because you can't go far off the level. Otherwise Roy would win easy.
Peach 30-70 Maybe worse. But I'm terrible against peach with anyone.
Pichu 60-40 Sure, why not?
Pikachu 45-55
Samus 30-70 Basically equivalent to the Peach matchup.
Shiek 30-70
Yoshi 50-50 Maybe better, but pretty close.
Y. Link 55-45 Maybe even
Zelda 50-50 Until Cosmo convinces me otherwise
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
Bowser 55-45 agree, possibly better
CF 45-55 agree, possibly worse
Doc 35-65, docs pills make approaching really hard, anyone that can camp their *** off is really good against roy
DK 50-50 agree
Falco 40-60 agree
Fox 45-55 agree, possibly worse
Ganon 30-70 agree
G&W 65-35 i think its 50/50, but really have problems with g&w for some strange reason
IC's 15-85 agree, this is by far the worst matchup of any 2 characters
Jiggs 40-60 i've slowly been improving with this matchup, however, it is still bad. a top level jiggs will kick the **** out of a similarly skilled roy.
Kirby 70-30 kirby can't get close, end of story.
Link 50-50 because links, projectiles are easily dodgable, i agree with this. link is easy to combo, and if you're smart, easy to edgeguard.
Luigi 30-70 terrible, this matchup is terrible.
Mario 40-60 agree, not nearly as bad as doc. pills>balls
Marth 45-55 i'm convinced this is a decent matchup. marth gets combo'd like a pro and gets auto edgeguarded by a powershield. the way to win this is just to not be the first person to commit. keep the marth on the ground with side b and techchases.
Mewtwo 60-40 mewtwo can camp his nuts off, you really don't have a chance to do anything until he approaches.
Ness 60-40 - same problem as kirby with slow projectiles, space well and win.
Peach 40-60 for some reason i like this matchup. or atleast more than several others. what really helps is when you can catch turnips without thinking. if you can catch a turnip and use it to your advantage, then you are doing well.
Pichu 70-30 - dtilt reverse blazer
Pikachu 55-45 camps really well, doesnt get combo'd well (at least not by roy).
Samus 30-70 bad
Shiek 30-70 bad
Yoshi 50-50 agree or slightly in roy's favor due to range and grab.
Y. Link 60-40 big sword>butter knife
Zelda 50-50 agree with this. put roy under zelda, do ****. zelda's **** is in front and behind in the air. her weakness is everytime else. her dsmash is fast with low knockback, and her fsmash is her only other good attack. approach with your shield up and get directly under her, then use a quick interrupting aerial to get her on the ground for a grab.
CF 45-55 agree, possibly worse
Doc 35-65, docs pills make approaching really hard, anyone that can camp their *** off is really good against roy
DK 50-50 agree
Falco 40-60 agree
Fox 45-55 agree, possibly worse
Ganon 30-70 agree
G&W 65-35 i think its 50/50, but really have problems with g&w for some strange reason
IC's 15-85 agree, this is by far the worst matchup of any 2 characters
Jiggs 40-60 i've slowly been improving with this matchup, however, it is still bad. a top level jiggs will kick the **** out of a similarly skilled roy.
Kirby 70-30 kirby can't get close, end of story.
Link 50-50 because links, projectiles are easily dodgable, i agree with this. link is easy to combo, and if you're smart, easy to edgeguard.
Luigi 30-70 terrible, this matchup is terrible.
Mario 40-60 agree, not nearly as bad as doc. pills>balls
Marth 45-55 i'm convinced this is a decent matchup. marth gets combo'd like a pro and gets auto edgeguarded by a powershield. the way to win this is just to not be the first person to commit. keep the marth on the ground with side b and techchases.
Mewtwo 60-40 mewtwo can camp his nuts off, you really don't have a chance to do anything until he approaches.
Ness 60-40 - same problem as kirby with slow projectiles, space well and win.
Peach 40-60 for some reason i like this matchup. or atleast more than several others. what really helps is when you can catch turnips without thinking. if you can catch a turnip and use it to your advantage, then you are doing well.
Pichu 70-30 - dtilt reverse blazer
Pikachu 55-45 camps really well, doesnt get combo'd well (at least not by roy).
Samus 30-70 bad
Shiek 30-70 bad
Yoshi 50-50 agree or slightly in roy's favor due to range and grab.
Y. Link 60-40 big sword>butter knife
Zelda 50-50 agree with this. put roy under zelda, do ****. zelda's **** is in front and behind in the air. her weakness is everytime else. her dsmash is fast with low knockback, and her fsmash is her only other good attack. approach with your shield up and get directly under her, then use a quick interrupting aerial to get her on the ground for a grab.
exarch
doot doot doot
Nah dude Jiggs is a great matchup for Roy compared to many others.
It's basically single hit DED into mixups, then fsmash at 60%.
Very similar to how fox plays her (a bunch of taps until she's at 50%, then upsmash if you can.) Except that Jiggs has to approach through your **** zone in order to hit you every time. Fsmashing her with Roy is much easier than usmashing her with Fox.
Roy falls into a bunch of combos, but it's ok because she dies at 60. It's also similar to what people say about the Ganon Jiggs matchup, that it takes "4 hits to kill her." Except it literally takes 4 hits to kill her.
One last comparison is to Jiggs vs Marth, except you can "tipper" much easier, so she isn't going to live till 140 very often.
Roy can also attempt to defend himself while recovering, though usually you're gonna get buttraped, but most of the other characters do too. He's better at defending himself while recovering than fox, and as good as Ganon.
As for personal experience, before Hbox got significantly better than me (we were about the same skill level or I was slightly better at the time) I played him in pools with Roy and split 1-1.
Raistlin (placed 9th at Genesis I believe,) is much closer to my skill level, and generally doesn't enjoy playing against my Roy.
It's basically single hit DED into mixups, then fsmash at 60%.
Very similar to how fox plays her (a bunch of taps until she's at 50%, then upsmash if you can.) Except that Jiggs has to approach through your **** zone in order to hit you every time. Fsmashing her with Roy is much easier than usmashing her with Fox.
Roy falls into a bunch of combos, but it's ok because she dies at 60. It's also similar to what people say about the Ganon Jiggs matchup, that it takes "4 hits to kill her." Except it literally takes 4 hits to kill her.
One last comparison is to Jiggs vs Marth, except you can "tipper" much easier, so she isn't going to live till 140 very often.
Roy can also attempt to defend himself while recovering, though usually you're gonna get buttraped, but most of the other characters do too. He's better at defending himself while recovering than fox, and as good as Ganon.
As for personal experience, before Hbox got significantly better than me (we were about the same skill level or I was slightly better at the time) I played him in pools with Roy and split 1-1.
Raistlin (placed 9th at Genesis I believe,) is much closer to my skill level, and generally doesn't enjoy playing against my Roy.
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,633
everything else I agree with
exarch
doot doot doot
When are you not in control of the Jiggs matchup?
If you're not getting comboed or recovering you're in control. Neutral position is Roy is in control in this matchup. She has to get inside Roy.
I only potentially see a problem if she decides to plank, but the Magus gifs involving ganon and cf could pretty easily be done by roy as well.
Also did you accidentally include Marth? cause that's unchanged.
EDIT: Also I think you failed english.
If you're not getting comboed or recovering you're in control. Neutral position is Roy is in control in this matchup. She has to get inside Roy.
I only potentially see a problem if she decides to plank, but the Magus gifs involving ganon and cf could pretty easily be done by roy as well.
Also did you accidentally include Marth? cause that's unchanged.
EDIT: Also I think you failed english.
otg
Smash Master
Exarch, not that I play Roy at all, but I'm just curious how you plan on Fsmashing jiggs at the bare minimum KO %? Is there a set up or combo setup into it?
exarch
doot doot doot
No setup, just do it like a G.
I realize fox has problems just usmashing jiggs, but it's because the usmash hitbox comes from the bottom. A lot of the time it gets stopped by a bair before it gets high enough into the air to reach her.
Marth, on the other hand, has a much easier time hitting fsmash (comparitively) than Fox's upsmash, due to the size and direction of the hitbox. Roy's fsmash is very similar, except with much larger knockback than Marth's non-tips.
Obviously she's gonna live longer during some stocks, as it's equally obvious that Roy isn't going to get rested at 30% or comboed off screen every stock. Though I think your question was more asking about any setups rather than implying I was stupid for saying you'll kill her at exactly 60% every stock, every match, ever.
I wonder how easy/difficult it would be to rest a shielded fsmash. Though you don't have to look for her to be near/on the ground to hit with a fsmash, get her out of the air!
Also it hasn't been mentioned at all yet, but reverse upb has to add at least +5 to the matchup for Roy. Even the threat of it affects the matchup.
I realize fox has problems just usmashing jiggs, but it's because the usmash hitbox comes from the bottom. A lot of the time it gets stopped by a bair before it gets high enough into the air to reach her.
Marth, on the other hand, has a much easier time hitting fsmash (comparitively) than Fox's upsmash, due to the size and direction of the hitbox. Roy's fsmash is very similar, except with much larger knockback than Marth's non-tips.
Obviously she's gonna live longer during some stocks, as it's equally obvious that Roy isn't going to get rested at 30% or comboed off screen every stock. Though I think your question was more asking about any setups rather than implying I was stupid for saying you'll kill her at exactly 60% every stock, every match, ever.
I wonder how easy/difficult it would be to rest a shielded fsmash. Though you don't have to look for her to be near/on the ground to hit with a fsmash, get her out of the air!
Also it hasn't been mentioned at all yet, but reverse upb has to add at least +5 to the matchup for Roy. Even the threat of it affects the matchup.
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,633
you are not in control when jiggs is even close to you thanks to her godly mix ups.
neutral != roy's in control
marth was an accident
the UNPOSSIBLE was on purpose
exarch
doot doot doot
What godly mixups? Bair or not bair? (slight sarcasm)
The pressure is on her to hit you, because you have greater range and a more disjointed hitbox. Roy's first hit DED is gonna beat all of her approaches, regardless of the mixup.
Marth is in control of most of his matchups because he's got such great range and speed. Fox similarly, although less with range and more with speed. Falco keeps his control because he's got that laser.
Jigglypuff has less range and is slower than Roy. Neither character has a projectile to compensate. If they are both standing on the stage (neutral position,) it is Jiggs who has to work to hit Roy, not the other way around. Roy is in control most of the time in this match.
Also I thought you were making a reference to Ralph of the Simpsons (Me fail english, that's unpossible!) hence my claim that I think you failed english.
The pressure is on her to hit you, because you have greater range and a more disjointed hitbox. Roy's first hit DED is gonna beat all of her approaches, regardless of the mixup.
Marth is in control of most of his matchups because he's got such great range and speed. Fox similarly, although less with range and more with speed. Falco keeps his control because he's got that laser.
Jigglypuff has less range and is slower than Roy. Neither character has a projectile to compensate. If they are both standing on the stage (neutral position,) it is Jiggs who has to work to hit Roy, not the other way around. Roy is in control most of the time in this match.
Also I thought you were making a reference to Ralph of the Simpsons (Me fail english, that's unpossible!) hence my claim that I think you failed english.
Niko45
Smash Master
What? Jiggs bair + aerial mobility destroys Roy's range. Slower? Bair spam's pretty solid.
Anyways like it seems most people are saying the Floaties with good CC games are the absolute worst for Roy (Samus, Peach).
Matchups with fast fallers are completely reasonable, I guess you can give them a slight adv for just being better characters or something.
I am kinda miffed as to why Ganon is considered so hard. I mean relative to most of the cast he gets combo'd and edgeguarded fairly conventionally which is what Roy wants. Please don't get grabbed by Ganon there's not much excuse for that. Roy is fairly mobile, at least mobile enough to escape Ganon's pressure traps and what not. I'd say 60-40 Ganon is more appropriate.
Oh, and Zelda ***** Roy (seriously).
Anyways like it seems most people are saying the Floaties with good CC games are the absolute worst for Roy (Samus, Peach).
Matchups with fast fallers are completely reasonable, I guess you can give them a slight adv for just being better characters or something.
I am kinda miffed as to why Ganon is considered so hard. I mean relative to most of the cast he gets combo'd and edgeguarded fairly conventionally which is what Roy wants. Please don't get grabbed by Ganon there's not much excuse for that. Roy is fairly mobile, at least mobile enough to escape Ganon's pressure traps and what not. I'd say 60-40 Ganon is more appropriate.
Oh, and Zelda ***** Roy (seriously).
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
ganon kills you in about 3 hits and can cc dtilts really hardcore. honestly most of the ganon matchup for me feels like i'm winning and then i get ****ed anyway.
also i'm convinced that most people think zelda/roy is bad because people dont know how to fight zelda. but i suppose it's really all just preference/playstyle.
Niko45
Smash Master
The only thing you can really kill her with is fsmash. This is extremely hard to land, especially since if she shields it you're going to get kicked. The most reliable way to get fsmashes in general is off tech chases, but she's too floaty and can jump or kick you out of all your throws, leaving you very little reliable ways to force her to tech.
Even if you do get free hits from underneath, you're just slowly building damage there's no real threat that you're going to kill her from that position any time soon.
I mean it's a familiar story with Roy and floaties where she just doesn't die and eventually she'll get some kicks and kill you.
On Ganon: I don't see why Ganon would even bother ccing your dtilts when he could just jump and hit you with any aerial he pleases. I can't see much use for Roy's dtilt against Ganon...
CCing in general is a bit overrated against Roy I think cause against most characters you can do stuff like late fair into shield immediately to block whatever they counterattack with or sidestep for cc grabbers. It at least is a nice initial counter to CCing that sets off some sort of mindgames to follow.
Peach is the major exception because her cc dsmash just ***** your shield. Personally I think this is Roy's worst matchup.
D
Deleted member
Guest
zelda ****s on roy horribly. the only serious way to fight zelda is to DD camp her (her biggest weakness) and do chip hits that can't be kicked. she can CC you but her CC game sucks and isn't really threatening. just pretend you're playing marth and do DD stuff mostly grabs and upthrow her @ 190%. seriously. roy can't do anything to zelda and zelda can't fight DD camping, so this match is a lame-off.
I think peach is probably roy's 3rd worst match. sheik and falcon are worse because they can't be DD camped effectively and both have deathgrabs on roy that are fairly easy to do. both also have AMAZING CC grabs on roy, which ****s his **** worse than peach's dsmash (because peach's dsmash only does like 56% or something)
I think peach is probably roy's 3rd worst match. sheik and falcon are worse because they can't be DD camped effectively and both have deathgrabs on roy that are fairly easy to do. both also have AMAZING CC grabs on roy, which ****s his **** worse than peach's dsmash (because peach's dsmash only does like 56% or something)
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
you played against IC's yet niko? that is the worst matchup.
exarch
doot doot doot
Roy's DED beats Jiggs bair (I think.) Almost no one else in the game has a move that can beat bair. And those that do usually don't have the mobility to get into a position to beat it easily.
Ganon grabs everyone. Look up videos to see him shield grabbing Peach's FC, Falco's pillar, Marths, and sheiks. Then he CGs you to death. He also can potentially edgeguard you every stock regardless of %. (I think... though I've been doing better about recovery vs ganon.) That's why it's terrible. If he doesn't do those two things, then yes it's about 60-40. (Properly spaced) dtilt is also **** against ganon lol.
Zelda is very easy to hit, and can pretty easily be taken to 170% every life to kill her if necessary. Grab and aerials allow roy to keep zelda on the ropes. Light and chip hits are the way to go. Get to 180 3% at a time; it's pretty safe vs zelda, since her shield and cc games aren't fantastic. Jab, 1st-hit-DED, dtilt, and grab. And don't fsmash her shield, Zelda's rely on that to beat bad people. Empty SH to Fsmash. Uthrow also kills her earlier than many. DI the kicks correctly and you'll live longer than most of the rest of the cast.
DD camping can be effective but Roy can do so much more than that.
Falcon is easy, first hit DED, CC the overb, DI grabs away.
Sheik can be tough but has no approach game and can be swatted away for 4 stocks.
Peach is really bad, Roy may be her best matchup.
IC's are Roy's worst.
Ganon grabs everyone. Look up videos to see him shield grabbing Peach's FC, Falco's pillar, Marths, and sheiks. Then he CGs you to death. He also can potentially edgeguard you every stock regardless of %. (I think... though I've been doing better about recovery vs ganon.) That's why it's terrible. If he doesn't do those two things, then yes it's about 60-40. (Properly spaced) dtilt is also **** against ganon lol.
Zelda is very easy to hit, and can pretty easily be taken to 170% every life to kill her if necessary. Grab and aerials allow roy to keep zelda on the ropes. Light and chip hits are the way to go. Get to 180 3% at a time; it's pretty safe vs zelda, since her shield and cc games aren't fantastic. Jab, 1st-hit-DED, dtilt, and grab. And don't fsmash her shield, Zelda's rely on that to beat bad people. Empty SH to Fsmash. Uthrow also kills her earlier than many. DI the kicks correctly and you'll live longer than most of the rest of the cast.
DD camping can be effective but Roy can do so much more than that.
Falcon is easy, first hit DED, CC the overb, DI grabs away.
Sheik can be tough but has no approach game and can be swatted away for 4 stocks.
Peach is really bad, Roy may be her best matchup.
IC's are Roy's worst.
D
Deleted member
Guest
jiggly bair beats DED cleanly.
any character with a good DD or falco's lasers beats ganon, and roy is no exception. you'll feel bad for cheesing him to death but roy should beat ganon. ganon can't use his good upair tip edge guard but he can edge hog roy and force him to land on the stage, then get up and do whatever to roy in his landing lag. so any roy doing up B should basically be dead. but roy edge guard ganon to death right back. on stage, roy's DD should win him that match. also roy's dtilt is CC grab bait for ganon.
exarch I basically disagree with your entire post. I can't stress enough how badly zelda pushes roy's **** in.
any character with a good DD or falco's lasers beats ganon, and roy is no exception. you'll feel bad for cheesing him to death but roy should beat ganon. ganon can't use his good upair tip edge guard but he can edge hog roy and force him to land on the stage, then get up and do whatever to roy in his landing lag. so any roy doing up B should basically be dead. but roy edge guard ganon to death right back. on stage, roy's DD should win him that match. also roy's dtilt is CC grab bait for ganon.
exarch I basically disagree with your entire post. I can't stress enough how badly zelda pushes roy's **** in.
Niko45
Smash Master
Actually no I haven't. That makes sense though I could see them being a total nightmare.
Exarch it's not easy to chip damage Zelda to 170+ every stock. And the thing is she really realistically lives to 170 or so every single stock because there's just no reliable way to fsmash her. Empty hop? Uh, I don't see how empty hop fsmash is a deal breaker because it invites her to shield, which she's gonna probably do anyway, and then she may just try to kick you cause the risk reward is in her favor.
Roy can't even really gay her very hard with the grab game because he doesn't force her to tech and it's not like his air game combos amazingly or something making it easy to build damage on her. I mean she's not the hardest thing in the world to hit by any means but you're asking Roy to avoid kicks for a pretty long time. I also don't know what that means about DIing them properly and living longer than most of the cast. Since every character can DI and Roy's recovery is garbage compared to most of the cast I'm going to say that's just flat out wrong.
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,633
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tukPKlYNrT0
if it weren't for my terrible DI at 2 parts this would have been a lot closer
you can easily abuse zelda, its vest really hard and scary
if it weren't for my terrible DI at 2 parts this would have been a lot closer
you can easily abuse zelda, its vest really hard and scary
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
How much experience in the zelda matchup do you have?
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,633
none.
that was me when I was at my peak aside from those DI mistakes.
I play every match up the same basically. use my weird movements and cross up grab or d-smash/f-smash
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
honestly it looked like you had about 0 MU experience in that game. although the dsmash tricks were sexy.
exarch
doot doot doot
Umbreon:
Edgeguarding ganon is not as easy as we make it out to be. With good DI he can space a downb and 2nd jump to sweetspot. Roy can't do anything about that from the stage, and jumping out with low-charged flare blade doesn't knock ganon far enough away to force him to upb until much later %.
Well spaced dtilt can be done outside of ganon's grab range.
Regardless, if dtilt is bait for ganon CC grab, then DD->DED is also fodder for ganon's CC grab. And if we're not DEDing out of DD, then we must be grabbing. Then Roy's DD->Grab beats ganon? I find that very hard to believe.
I also don't understand how you can tell me that Roy's DD camping means he should beat ganon but Roy gets crapped on by Zelda. Those two characters have very similar offensive strategies/capabilities.
But we've always had extremely different playstyles. You plan on DD camping, I try to get closer to pressure. (So what I'm saying is it makes sense you disagree.) Against zelda I can see you trying to tipper-space DED and trading a lot with toe. The safe spots are close to zelda. Aggressive well-controlled Roy is the way to go.
EDIT:Also that was a nice match Rip. Actually I think the second DED when you were recovering first stock gave him enough time to edgehog you (aka it killed you.) And yea your DI was off.
EDITEDIT:
Niko, empty hop is good because zelda expect to shield and aerial jump out and punish you in the lag. you make her think you're going to hit her shield and catch her as she jumps out. it's a great way to hit people who are trying to shield punish roy. watch that match. i was throwing it out as a means of advice for someone who is havign a hard time with the matchup.
di up and toward the stage, you should normally be able to make it back onto the edge. roy is a fast faller so he doesn't die off the top (fall speed is the largest factor for determining this.) many characters die off the top from zelda's kicks at very earlier percentages. roy's fall speed means he normally dies off the side (blast ko) before he dies off the top from kicks.
I'm not arguing roy-zelda anymore until I play quite a few matches with Cosmo.
Edgeguarding ganon is not as easy as we make it out to be. With good DI he can space a downb and 2nd jump to sweetspot. Roy can't do anything about that from the stage, and jumping out with low-charged flare blade doesn't knock ganon far enough away to force him to upb until much later %.
Well spaced dtilt can be done outside of ganon's grab range.
Regardless, if dtilt is bait for ganon CC grab, then DD->DED is also fodder for ganon's CC grab. And if we're not DEDing out of DD, then we must be grabbing. Then Roy's DD->Grab beats ganon? I find that very hard to believe.
I also don't understand how you can tell me that Roy's DD camping means he should beat ganon but Roy gets crapped on by Zelda. Those two characters have very similar offensive strategies/capabilities.
But we've always had extremely different playstyles. You plan on DD camping, I try to get closer to pressure. (So what I'm saying is it makes sense you disagree.) Against zelda I can see you trying to tipper-space DED and trading a lot with toe. The safe spots are close to zelda. Aggressive well-controlled Roy is the way to go.
EDIT:Also that was a nice match Rip. Actually I think the second DED when you were recovering first stock gave him enough time to edgehog you (aka it killed you.) And yea your DI was off.
EDITEDIT:
Niko, empty hop is good because zelda expect to shield and aerial jump out and punish you in the lag. you make her think you're going to hit her shield and catch her as she jumps out. it's a great way to hit people who are trying to shield punish roy. watch that match. i was throwing it out as a means of advice for someone who is havign a hard time with the matchup.
di up and toward the stage, you should normally be able to make it back onto the edge. roy is a fast faller so he doesn't die off the top (fall speed is the largest factor for determining this.) many characters die off the top from zelda's kicks at very earlier percentages. roy's fall speed means he normally dies off the side (blast ko) before he dies off the top from kicks.
I'm not arguing roy-zelda anymore until I play quite a few matches with Cosmo.
D
Deleted member
Guest
once roy gets ganon, ganon is in for hurt. once roy gets zelda...zelda holds away and that's pretty much it. roy's lack of an effective punishment game changes his matches drastically. roy can also DED tip ganon's aerials during their start-up since the earliest hit is unusually high and very disjointed, and adds landing lag in addition to the actual move stun for other set-ups. a high DED on zelda is just asking for his hand hurtbox to get kicked. there are many subtle differences in the match-up but yeah DD camping is effective vs both of them.
Pitzer
The Young Lion
Roy vs Fox: 45-55
Roy vs Falco: 40-60
Roy vs Jiggs: 40-60
Roy vs Sheik: 10-90
Roy vs Marth: 40-60
Roy vs Peach: 30-70
Roy vs Falcon: 45-55
Roy vs IC's: 10-90
Roy vs Doc: 45-55
Roy vs Ganon: 40-60
Roy vs Samus: 20-80
Roy vs Pika: 50-50
Roy vs Mario: 45-55
Roy vs Luigi: 45-55
Roy vs DK: 60-40
Roy vs Link: 45-55
Roy vs Young Link: 45-55
Roy vs Zelda: 45-55
Roy vs Roy: 50-50
Roy vs Mewtwo: 45-55
Roy vs Yoshi: 50-50
Roy vs G&W: 55-45
Roy vs Ness: 50-50
Roy vs Bowser: 65-35
Roy vs Kirby: 55-45
Roy vs Pichu: 55-45
Roy vs Falco: 40-60
Roy vs Jiggs: 40-60
Roy vs Sheik: 10-90
Roy vs Marth: 40-60
Roy vs Peach: 30-70
Roy vs Falcon: 45-55
Roy vs IC's: 10-90
Roy vs Doc: 45-55
Roy vs Ganon: 40-60
Roy vs Samus: 20-80
Roy vs Pika: 50-50
Roy vs Mario: 45-55
Roy vs Luigi: 45-55
Roy vs DK: 60-40
Roy vs Link: 45-55
Roy vs Young Link: 45-55
Roy vs Zelda: 45-55
Roy vs Roy: 50-50
Roy vs Mewtwo: 45-55
Roy vs Yoshi: 50-50
Roy vs G&W: 55-45
Roy vs Ness: 50-50
Roy vs Bowser: 65-35
Roy vs Kirby: 55-45
Roy vs Pichu: 55-45
camerino1
Smash Lord
So why aren't we bringing up Roy's chain grabs against the floaties? His F-throw can grab Jiggs to about 50%, which is about the time at which he can start tapping A + side-B to build up 20% so F-smash can get a kill. His reverse blazer would scare Jiggs too, so Jiggs doesn't want that.
Fast Fallers get chained by his U-throw, but Fox/ Falco have the lazer camping to help out, so I can see it in their favor. Not by a whole lot though because Roy has AMAZING combo's against both.
My best friend is a good Shiek, it's gotten to the point where I now know exactly how to space against all of her attacks
, so it wouldn't be as bad for me because of my playstyle (I tip a lot with Roy, not aim right for center blade right away.)
Ganon is a jerk with his grabs, but again with the tipping, I like to use it...
Zelda makes me angry, lots of little light attacks and wait forever to reach +150.
Samus/Peach make me want to kick things, not fun for Roy (least favorites.)
Never played an IC human before, so no desync + chain grab, so no comment.
Also, something I have never read is that if your U-smash doesn't do the last hit, it has enough hitstun to lead into a F-smash at lower %'s... just thought I would bring it up.
Fast Fallers get chained by his U-throw, but Fox/ Falco have the lazer camping to help out, so I can see it in their favor. Not by a whole lot though because Roy has AMAZING combo's against both.
My best friend is a good Shiek, it's gotten to the point where I now know exactly how to space against all of her attacks
, so it wouldn't be as bad for me because of my playstyle (I tip a lot with Roy, not aim right for center blade right away.)Ganon is a jerk with his grabs, but again with the tipping, I like to use it...
Zelda makes me angry, lots of little light attacks and wait forever to reach +150.
Samus/Peach make me want to kick things, not fun for Roy (least favorites.)
Never played an IC human before, so no desync + chain grab, so no comment.
Also, something I have never read is that if your U-smash doesn't do the last hit, it has enough hitstun to lead into a F-smash at lower %'s... just thought I would bring it up.
Pitzer
The Young Lion
We don't really have a F-throw CG on jiggs she can easily Smash di out of it.
camerino1
Smash Lord
Ohhh, she's too floaty then? I know that she is too floaty for the down one so I thought I came up with something helpful... Down works well on Kirby, and to a lesser extent Pika at 50-85 area.
N64
Smash Champion
I wanna play sethlon again. And exarch too for that matter. And ripple. Roy players are neato.
45-55 pika-roy sounds good to me. That's all I know. I could argue for 40-60 at the tippy top skill levels because as long as pika doesn't make any horrible teching errors he has to just do so much work to kill pika while pika can just rushdown lol gimp you die. 45-55 is fine thoughhhhhh.
45-55 pika-roy sounds good to me. That's all I know. I could argue for 40-60 at the tippy top skill levels because as long as pika doesn't make any horrible teching errors he has to just do so much work to kill pika while pika can just rushdown lol gimp you die. 45-55 is fine thoughhhhhh.
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
camerino1
Smash Lord
Pika is one of my favorites to fight, chain grabs work against computers really well I guess .
.
Pitzer
The Young Lion
Well you see lvl 9 di towards you all the time, level 1's smash di away and level 4 mix di's up
exarch
doot doot doot
Ok let's talk Roy vs Fox. And just Roy vs Fox for a while.
Go.
Go.
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
Ok, I'll start.
Roy vs fox is interesting. I'm fairly certain is a 6-4 for fox, but roy has some mean tricks he can do as well. Dtilt will actually straight up combo fox from 0% to around 70% to 80% i think. If they DI away, you can catch it with fast enough reaction with another dtiit, or you can wd grab or tech chase fsmash. After the dtilits, you can follow up with anything->fsmash for a stock.
Roy's DED >^> is useful here.
Fox is going to abuse the crap out of cc's here. don't get caught in DED at early percent or you'll get ***** by fox stuff.
Roy vs fox is interesting. I'm fairly certain is a 6-4 for fox, but roy has some mean tricks he can do as well. Dtilt will actually straight up combo fox from 0% to around 70% to 80% i think. If they DI away, you can catch it with fast enough reaction with another dtiit, or you can wd grab or tech chase fsmash. After the dtilits, you can follow up with anything->fsmash for a stock.
Roy's DED >^> is useful here.
Fox is going to abuse the crap out of cc's here. don't get caught in DED at early percent or you'll get ***** by fox stuff.
Paramedic
Smash Rookie
Hey whatsup guys fairly new to Smashboards but not to Melee. Really, really good stuff on this thread. It's pretty incredible how much compiled info there is on Roy's MU's. I've been known to throw Roy out against spacies once in awhile for fun. I've noticed as far as edgeguarding goes, timing counter just off the ledge during Fox's/Falco's 3rd jump tends to be an instant stock at higher %'s if you have Roy's back turned to them, especially a low bottom stages like Battlefield. If anything it's good for the lul factor, just my 2 cents anyways.
Welcome to the Roy boards Paramedic!
I'm sure I've posted this somewhere on these boards, but landing a solid dtilt on fox at low percent is a really good position. Are they DI'ing in to survive the fsmash? Dtilt them again, keep them in the same spot. Are they DI'ing out to get out of the dtilt chain? Fsmash, and their poor DI will net you an easy counter/flareblade edgeguard kill.
Sometimes I hate this matchup and sometimes I love it. Overall it seems pretty decent...but that nair really messes me up. I know wavedash -> fsmash is the textbook answer, but thats beaten by the fox if they just run a little bit further before short hopping (much faster than our wavedash back). I've been practicing pivot fsmash for the sole purpose of beating out that dumb nair. (And most of the time it still trades; fsmash just happens to actually kill, haha.)
I'm sure I've posted this somewhere on these boards, but landing a solid dtilt on fox at low percent is a really good position. Are they DI'ing in to survive the fsmash? Dtilt them again, keep them in the same spot. Are they DI'ing out to get out of the dtilt chain? Fsmash, and their poor DI will net you an easy counter/flareblade edgeguard kill.
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
What's your answer to shield pressure?
Pitzer
The Young Lion
Rolling. Yes sounds like a bad idea but vs Fox you might have to roll from shield pressure.
exarch
doot doot doot
I agree with this so much.Sethlon said:
Dtilt chains into itself until 70-80%ish (depends on how stale your dtilt is.) Check. Also can grab after any dtilt to start the cg.
DED >^> is good. Check.
A large problem I run into is that after the first hit of DED, Fox is on the ground and can shine you before you get anything else off. I commonly use that first hit of DED to stop the nairplane, but then I get shined and we reset.
Against the nair, WD back is good, but anything roy has will beat it, if you can get it out in time. DED will win, as I mentioned, as will fair. If you're attempting WD back -> fsmash, why not try the ftilt? It's faster so hopefully your success rate will increase. Of course you could try jab too.
Shield pressure I agree with rolling 100%. Alternately, you can CC grab any nair. Or you can try the jump oos and counter (not the best vs fox because his shield pressure tends to be lighter hits.)
What's the best thing to do when we get shined? As one of the few characters who can tech the shine, I'm a little curious as our possibilities of response here.
Also will throw out that getting grabbed and uthrown at 0% we can counter before fox does anything.