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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

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Gamingboy

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I think Brawl's hype was much more than Pokémon Gold / Silver.

on your last point, I agree completely with you. trailers always overhype people.
Well, as I said, it was a different kind of hype (schoolyard hype, kids-slacking-off-when-they-should-have-been-doing-homework hype), and a different time. Not as many people had internet, and the turn-of-the-century game communities were kind of like the wild west, and pretty disorganized.
 

Frostwraith

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Let's face it, we're going to get surprises anyway. Ever installment gets at least one darkhorse character out there, so don't be too disappointed.
Sakurai: I hope you like Sheriff, Bayonetta, and Waddle Dee. :troll:
Nawww... it'll be Dark Samus, Dark Pit and Raichu. :troll:

Well, as I said, it was a different kind of hype (schoolyard hype, kids-slacking-off-when-they-should-have-been-doing-homework hype), and a different time. Not as many people had internet, and the turn-of-the-century game communities were kind of like the wild west, and pretty disorganized.
good point. things have changed in the last decade, so you can't compare.
 

yani

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MS was recently denied KI? Whose gonna be able to get the copyrights for it at some point then I wonder?
FOX has the right to it because there's a TV show called Killer Instinct (which was a failure if I'm not mistaken). Microsoft currently has 6 months to try and reverse the claim, so we'll see what happens.

edit- I think Bayonetta would be a pretty nice inclusion. Would not mind her at all. Although Sonic has my SEGA character pick, naturally :p
 

Frostwraith

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FOX has the right to it because there's a TV show called Killer Instinct (which was a failure if I'm not mistaken). Microsoft currently has 6 months to try and reverse the claim, so we'll see what happens.

edit- I think Bayonetta would be a pretty nice inclusion. Would not mind her at all. Although Sonic has my SEGA character pick, naturally :p
:o copyright mess incoming, huh?

and I don't think Bayonetta will appear in the game, her chances are very low. but, hey, Snake made it into Brawl, so it's not out of possibility.
 

Opossum

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Today seems like a flashback to the old thread as far as discussion. Everyone coming here to discuss and all. It's nice.

In a few years, we'll probably be pleasantly surprised.
 
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I have two points based on what I was reading.

1. Don't count less popular characters down for the count (such as Saki). Sakurai has stated that he doesn't like to just add the popular ones back on the old Dojo.

2. In relation to characters like Black Shadow, K. Rool, and Dixie, them not being in recent titles of the series or the series not having recent titles doesn't really affect them.
Let's take a look back at some games inbetween 64 and Melee.
Zelda: Majora's Mask, Oracle of Seasons & Ages. Sheik and Ganondorf were not in any of these games (aside from pig Ganon in the linked Oracle titles), yet were in Melee.
StarFox: Nothing. Yet Falco was still in Melee.
Fire Emblem: Thracia 776. No Marth, who hasn't been around since 1994. Yet he was still in Melee.
 

SmashChu

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Sakurai: I hope you like Sheriff, Bayonetta, and Waddle Dee. :troll:
Surprises:
Pacman
Waddle Dee
Balloon Fighter
Olimar Jr. ♂♀
I've been thinking Karate Joe would fill that roll, but maybe I'm just crazy.

I would be pleasantly surprised if Waddle Dee and Balloon Fighter ended up playable. Waddle Dee because I think Bandana Dee would be an interesting fighter, and Balloon Fighter because Balloon Fight is a very, very fun game.
I wanted Bandana Dee after playing Kirby Retrun to Dreamland. Still skeptical.
 

Frostwraith

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Today seems like a flashback to the old thread as far as discussion. Everyone coming here to discuss and all. It's nice.

In a few years, we'll probably be pleasantly surprised.
yep, it is really good! =D

Also just for clarification, but adding a female is not worth it if the character in question is very minor in the series as a whole (Minda, Ashley) or just plain loathed (Krystal). This why I'm only anticipating Palutena if we're going to this route, considering she is actually likable thanks to Kid Icarus: Uprising and is importent enough to be mentioned in the Japanese title Myth of Light: The Mirror of Palutena.

Also more Pit and Palutena because it's very adorable and funny to see them together.

There is also my more personal reasons too I don't want to get into.
summed up my point of view. would really like if Sakurai added a conversations easter egg to them like those of the Star Fox characters and Snake.

would really like to see more fourth wall breaking done by the trio of Palutena, Viridi and Hades.

I also want, at least, a Dark Pit set of colors (with voice swap) for Pit. the conversations would be different as well... but I doubt this will happen.

I have two points based on what I was reading.

1. Don't count less popular characters down for the count (such as Saki). Sakurai has stated that he doesn't like to just add the popular ones back on the old Dojo.

2. In relation to characters like Black Shadow, K. Rool, and Dixie, them not being in recent titles of the series or the series not having recent titles doesn't really affect them.
Let's take a look back at some games inbetween 64 and Melee.
Zelda: Majora's Mask, Oracle of Seasons & Ages. Sheik and Ganondorf were not in any of these games (aside from pig Ganon in the linked Oracle titles), yet were in Melee.
StarFox: Nothing. Yet Falco was still in Melee.
Fire Emblem: Thracia 776. No Marth, who hasn't been around since 1994. Yet he was still in Melee.
this guy knows what he's talking about! =D
 

Second Power

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I wanted Bandana Dee after playing Kirby Retrun to Dreamland. Still skeptical.
Bandana Dee getting into Sm4sh wouldn't be the oddest thing in the world. He has support, he has a unique fighting style, and he represents Kirby getting back to its roots after so many years. He may not be definite, but he's still in the running. And I agree, it would be nice to see him included. He's certainly one of my favorite candidates.
 

Aipom

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Honestly, I like seeing new series get some notice. Wario, Pikmin, ROB and Kid Icarus were all great addition. Not a fan of third-party characters, but that's irrelevant.... Even Brawl's usage of stages for Electroplankton and Animal Crossing were nice additions in my opinion.

A couple will get playable characters, more will be assist trophies, and some will get stages (I'm not including trophies/stickers or songs).
 

Ridley_Prime

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FOX has the right to it because there's a TV show called Killer Instinct (which was a failure if I'm not mistaken). Microsoft currently has 6 months to try and reverse the claim, so we'll see what happens.

edit- I think Bayonetta would be a pretty nice inclusion. Would not mind her at all. Although Sonic has my SEGA character pick, naturally :p
lol, I think I remember that show, and it was a failure from what I remember. Kinda silly that FOX has the rights to it just because of the name though, as the show had basically nothing to do with the fighting game. Then again, I don't really care who gets the rights to KI at this point as long as someone actually does something with the series again.
 

SmashChu

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This has been a pretty good night for Smash discussion.

As far as hype, news for this game is late. It's been in development for at least 9-10 months and we saw every game much earlier. It may not be until E3 where we see it again, and we will see it in a much more complete form (unlike Brawl). I think the hard part is this wait. After the Nintendo World video, it wasn't until about 7 months or so that we saw something else-the Dojo. This time, information will be much closer together.
 

Frostwraith

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This has been a pretty good night for Smash discussion.

As far as hype, news for this game is late. It's been in development for at least 9-10 months and we saw every game much earlier. It may not be until E3 where we see it again, and we will see it in a much more complete form (unlike Brawl). I think the hard part is this wait. After the Nintendo World video, it wasn't until about 7 months or so that we saw something else-the Dojo. This time, information will be much closer together.
Namco Bandai surely is helping to speed up the process without deteriorating the quality of the game. besides Namco, we also have Sakurai's own Sora Ltd. working on it.

I still think that Smash Bros. is in good hands, I mean, Namco is known for two major fighting game series, SoulCalibur and Tekken. plus, they also have people from the Tales series working, which has also a dose of fighting since these are action RPGs (I think, I never played a Tales game, so I can't say much on this regard).

if Nintendo keeps their usual schedule of doing Nintendo Directs about every 2 months, some details might be revealed earlier, who knows... but, I'd count with a trailer at the next E3. rumors also tell of a possible playable demo, but I wouldn't be sure about it...

just thinking about the next E3 makes me a little hyped, I must admit...
 

Frostwraith

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Here are two topics I made on GameFAQs

On Japanese Smash Bros. fanbase observations:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/64873505

An account of pre-Melee speculation:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/64873159
...it was you! O_O
mind = blown

I knew that these texts were familiar...

you see, I was just lurking in the GameFAQs boards (an authentic trollfest everyday there) right now and saw these posts and recognized them as what you posted here as well.

Knowing GameFAQs, it's going to be clogged with a huge amount of stupidity...
couldn't agree more! that place is full of trolls and stupid people. where are the mods on that site? they're almost inexistent!
 

FlareHabanero

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From experience, everyone there is full of whiners and idiots.

I was one of those people, and it was the dark age for me.
 

Croph

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So, has Sakurai shown any interest in bringing back Melee cuts, preferably Mewtwo and Roy? Although the newcomers that I'd love to see are, I guess, realistic in terms of being added to the roster, Mewtwo and Roy come before them, for me. My expectations for the roster are low; it never is when it comes to these kinds of things. But I am staying optimistic deep down for the return of Mewtwo and Roy...Wait, having low expectations yet being optimistic at the same time, does that make any sense? Dunno.

Also, how's Roy's popularity when it comes to the West compared to Japan? I'm sorry, I've been living under a rock up until now. :p ... :S

Here are two topics I made on GameFAQs

On Japanese Smash Bros. fanbase observations:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/64873505

An account of pre-Melee speculation:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/64873159
Oh wow. The observations are interesting. Thanks. For a Third-party I'd love to see Megaman. I was always bad at the games, but I still like that little guy XD
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Yeah, I never really got how we got the Ice Climbers before Pit but oh well >.>

I'd really love for Takamaru to get in and end up getting an awesome mature action game as a result.
Considering that Hideki Kamiya mentioned on his Twitter that he'd be interested in making a reboot for Nazo no Muresame-jo than just Star Fox, it could happen sooner or later.
 

FlareHabanero

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I would love to see Hideki Kamiya and Masahiro Sakurai together to work on a The Mysterious Murasame Castle reboot. Especially considering that Kamiya was the director for Okami.
 

Frostwraith

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Considering that Hideki Kamiya mentioned on his Twitter that he'd be interested in making a reboot for Nazo no Muresame-jo than just Star Fox, it could happen sooner or later.
you mean the same Hideki Kamiya of Platinum Games?

well, a hack-and-slash Nazo no Murasamejo game would look nice to have... I don't remember a Nintendo IP having a hack-and-slash game, so it would be a nice revival of the series. and considering Takamaru's guest appearence in Samurai Warriors 3 for Wii and being represented in Nintendo Land, the series might be seeing a future...

@Habanero: with Sakurai?! O_O now Sakurai is what, Smash Bros. creator and retro series reviver? not that it's a bad thing, you know!
 

ChronoBound

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Also, how's Roy's popularity when it comes to the West compared to Japan? I'm sorry, I've been living under a rock up until now. :p ... :S
Roy is within the Top 10 most wanted characters in the West, and overall the most wanted Fire Emblem character in the West. Most of his supporters are rather quiet in the West though.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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you mean the same Hideki Kamiya of Platinum Games?

well, a hack-and-slash Nazo no Murasamejo game would look nice to have... I don't remember a Nintendo IP having a hack-and-slash game, so it would be a nice revival of the series. and considering Takamaru's guest appearence in Samurai Warriors 3 for Wii and being represented in Nintendo Land, the series might be seeing a future...

@Habanero, with Sakurai?! O_O now Sakurai is what, Smash Bros. creator and retro series reviver? not that it's a bad thing, you know!
Yes, the one and only. I've been following him for quite some time. ;)
 

Starphoenix

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I've been thinking Karate Joe would fill that roll, but maybe I'm just crazy.
No, that seems like the kind of left-of-field character Sakurai could go for. Definitely not that far fetched. :083:

I wanted Bandana Dee after playing Kirby Retrun to Dreamland. Still skeptical.
He's my dark horse candidate for SSB4.
 

FlareHabanero

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@Habanero: with Sakurai?! O_O now Sakurai is what, Smash Bros. creator and retro series reviver? not that it's a bad thing, you know!
Of course that's not a bad thing, in fact it's kinda a good thing.

Also I do think that The Mysterious Murasame Castle will become a spiritual successor of Kid Icarus sometime in the future. The Mysterious Murasame Castle is even related to The Legend of Zelda in a vein similar to Kid Icarus being related to Metroid.
 

Starphoenix

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Mystery solved.

I guess it makes more sense seeing as he's more popular than i thought, but can you tell me why you think he'll get in.
As most of us have already discussed, Sakurai does not have many characters to choose from left. While some people like to think that Sakurai is the type who is going to cut half of the roster just so he can add more characters, the truth is he likes adding more variety. There is enough evidence out there to show us that King DDD was cut in Melee for the sake of having more characters (Ganondorf, Young Link, Roy, Pichu, Dr. Mario, Falco). Waddle Dee is a safe gamble for Sakurai that has more upside then down. Think about it, very few people I've met actually dislike him as a character, the only real complaint is that he is a generic enemy. or that Kirby as a series is finished. Still, most people seem to think he can translate to Super Smash Bros well; and he can. Sakurai cares as much about variety in playstyle as much as he does the individual character itself. Waddle Dee has that. Heck, Kirby's Return to Dreamland already gives Sakurai a lot to work with, especially when you consider that a majority of the attacks for Metaknight and King DDD in that game came from Brawl. There is already a starting point for Sakurai to work with.

Yes, popularity could be a factor, but at this point it is not as though adding Waddle Dee is going to prevent someone important. The only thing that might hinder a Waddle Dee appearance is Sakurai fearing showing favoritism, but since he hasn't handled the Kirby series in a while, I think his (and his team) focus will be on the Kid Icarus content, where as HAL will probably spear head (no pun intended) much of the Kirby content from Epic Yarn/Return to Dreamland.

tl;dr version: Sakurai likes to gamble, and Waddle Dee is the safest gamble with the best upside. Brings a fresh moveset, from a popular series, from a recent game that outperformed Skyward Sword in Japan, and is a likeable character. My gut tells me Sakurai will make this move.
 

BKupa666

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I think Sakurai will still be able to generate hype for SSB4's newcomers, though he may have to do so differently than he did with Brawl's newcomers. He can put Meta Knight and Wario in an E3 trailer for instant hype, since people already know and adore the characters. With some of SSB4's lesser-known ones, he'll have to create an identity for them to get the same level of hype...showing Ridley tearing his opposition to shreds so those unfamiliar with him automatically become fans, for example. Reaching Brawl levels of hype possible, though it will take more planning than before, and is unlikely to match or surpass it immediately.
 
D

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I think Sakurai will still be able to generate hype for SSB4's newcomers, though he may have to do so differently than he did with Brawl's newcomers. He can put Meta Knight and Wario in an E3 trailer for instant hype, since people already know and adore the characters. With some of SSB4's lesser-known ones, he'll have to create an identity for them to get the same level of hype...showing Ridley tearing his opposition to shreds so those unfamiliar with him automatically become fans, for example. Reaching Brawl levels of hype possible, though it will take more planning than before, and is unlikely to match or surpass it immediately.
Come to think of it, this sounds like a logical reason why nothing has been shown off as of yet. More planning is needed to reach Brawl hype levels.
 

FlareHabanero

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I do like the idea of a more expressive reveal for characters, it adds more cosmetic flare. Of course each one would have to reflect the character in question.
 

Croph

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Roy is within the Top 10 most wanted characters in the West, and overall the most wanted Fire Emblem character in the West. Most of his supporters are rather quiet in the West though.
Wow, that's nice to hear.

As most of us have already discussed, Sakurai does not have many characters to choose from left. While some people like to think that Sakurai is the type who is going to cut half of the roster just so he can add more characters, the truth is he likes adding more variety.
Nuuu Sakurai, please don't cut half the the roster. I'd refuse to buy Smash 4 if that happened. Or is this unlikely to happen?
 
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Well today certainly has been interesting. Too much to comment on due to having to finish a psychology paper.

One thing I will say is this; I understand the pessimism entirely in regards to the roster, but I'd rather not go down this route myself. The thing is, disappointment is inevitable in life and can easily happen with at least one area in SSB4. Whenever it's gameplay changes, character roster, stage selection, etc, even expectations that seems too easy to meet may not get there.

I'm not expecting 60+ characters, but I have no intentions to hide from potential disappointment.
 

ChronoBound

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I think the reason why there was so much discussion today is that somewhat fresh topics were opened up today, namely about Smash 4's pool of newcomers, and how so few characters from Nintendo's veteran franchises (aside from Mario) that are not yet playable had a major appearance in a game since Brawl's release.
 
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One thing that's interesting about the pool of newcomers is that it's both the easiest and hardest game to speculate on. Deciding on which newcomers have a fair shot seems to be generally agreed on, yet deciding on which one will actually get in is hard to say.

As for recent appearance, I don't put much stock into them, especially for franchises with recurring characters. The only franchise where I feel an argument could be made for recentness is the Fire Emblem franchise but even then other more important factors played a bigger role in inclusion (one reason why Roy was made playable was because he stood out more than Leaf-clone and Ike had to meet Sakurai's four criteria in order to get in).

The reason why Marth made it in Melee and retro characters were made playable is not because they appeared in a new game, but because of popularity, importance to franchise, and being unique.
 
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