Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[FlareHabanero]

The infamous "Japan Time" and the third party situation contributed to the hype.

 

[Frostwraith]

yep. the Dojo itself was a massive cause of hype and so were Snake and Sonic's inclusions.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The time I lived in Africa saved me from the crazy hype wackiness of Brawl. It was just me archiving to a notebook about all the things being announced in Dojo and discussing so much about it with my little brothers. Best times.

 

[Frostwraith]

@Horsetail: lucky you. You'd never imagine the amount of trolls on the GameFAQs boards.

the worst of it was the fact that it was like a contagious disease, because I also got caught in the middle of it.

 

[SmashChu]

Well it quite puts me off. Smash Bros would really do it's job better introducing new franchises but seeing how Sakurai has such a strict rules to determine who gets a spot or not, it goes used in a way it tends favour the already popular ones, polarising Nintendo and their other IPs even more.

Triple-Hyper: I actually wanted to say the same. Maybe it's because we all have decided to join the "lamenting".

That's a good thing though. Sakurai being particular allows for great additions and some good surprises. High quality is a must, which is why Smash is so great.

Keep your expectations low in relation to the roster. Melee had an extremely disappointing final roster, yet the game play blew everyone away. Here is an account I wrote of the pre-Melee time about when Melee's roster was leaked and finally confirmed:

There were loads and mountains of angry posts saying they would not buy Melee, and some even going as far to say they would not buy another Nintendo game ever again. People even thought the developers were purposely sabotaging their own game to have made a roster as horrible as that one. There were even topics asking people to make a roster worse than the official one, with many people flat out seriously saying "not possible". When word got out that Ganondorf was actually Captain Ganondorf, peoplef flipped out even more (Ganondorf was the most wanted newcomer after Bowser was confirmed). There was crying and meltdowns as far as the eye could see.

There were lots of people huddled around the small flame of hope that there were two more characters in the game, and that those last two characters were the characters that they wanted most. People thought that the team snuck in two nuggests of gold underneath the dung heap that was most of Melee's newcomers. However, when the North American player's guide for Melee was released, those hopes were dashed for most people (though there were still some people insisting that there were two more super secret characters in the game years after Melee's release).

However, when Melee finally released, and when people actually got their hands on the game, a very different tune was coming out amidst all the bawling about the dismal roster decisions. These people found a fighting engine that was much more satisying than Smash 64, much more and more inventive stages, loads of new items, a liiteral Nintendo museum (trophies), and the multitude of new modes the game had over Smash 64. Indeed, many people ended up falling in love with the two unknowns (Marth and Roy) and also thought lame, obscure guys like Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch were pretty inventive. The only three characters that were pretty much still whining about was Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link (and also about Ganondorf being a Captain Falcon clone).

Everyone that played Melee declared it leaps and bounds above its predescessor despite the roster not being what most people wanted. Indeed, nearly every speculator was blindsided by this (no one saw Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, and Roy coming). There were also few people expecting Marth (probably due to the fact that few people knew about Fire Emblem and also no one thought they would include Japan-only characters) and also many people did not think Falco would get in over Wolf. Indeed, the only newcomer characters that the speculators thought would get in that actually got in were Ganondorf, Mewtwo, and maybe Zelda.

Interesting.

I agree and disagree on the outcome. People will always be upset, but I don't think there will be much of an out lash this time. Your other post tells me that Melee was worse than Brawl as far as the reactions went. I figure this game will be less than Brawl. There are fewer top notch characters, so most people will be pleased.

It's interesting how things changed. There were a ton of potential newcomers for Melee, and less for Brawl. People were a lot closer with Brawl. I think every character except for Snake has a few people expecting them. The biggest difference was things like ROB, no Ridley, Pokemon Trainer and Wolf getting in over Krystal. Beyond that, we had a good idea of who was getting in. I expect the predictions will be a lot closer for this game, but may start spreading out afterward as the additions get more obscure.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wanna go to Africa to.

Anyways...

Anyone else expecting more Japan-only characters this time? So far we only had Lucas in Brawl. Think it'll be different this some whathow.

 

[Frostwraith]

well, since Sakurai left HAL, he released how many games? three? Meteos, Brawl and Uprising, the last two with lots of delays. but in the end, they end up as high quality games.

@Diddy Kong, Sakurai has voiced his opinion on that subject and was sort of a mixed bag, in the sense that he recognized the effect Marth and Roy's appearences caused in the FE franchise, but also said that he would like to avoid including many of these, so make what you will...

 

[ChronoBound]

Brawl's hype itself was pure insanity, to be honest. to this day, I've never seen a game getting so hyped like Brawl.

The hype for Smash 4 is going to be a step-down from Brawl. Mega Man is the biggest third-party character they can use, and there are very few Nintendo characters left that have the popularity that some of Brawl's higher-profile Nintendo newcomers did. Ridley and Little Mac are the only guys that were as popular during pre-Brawl that are still popular now (maybe Isaac as well, though his fanbase has basically collapsed in Japan). Mega Man is another character was popularly requested during pre-Brawl and is still popularly requested now.

K. Rool did not take off in requests until Diddy Kong was confirmed.

I don't think Shulk is as popularly requested now (in the West) as Isaac was during pre-Brawl. Palutena is the queen of female newcomers (as in by far the most wanted female newcomer), but her supporters are nowhere near the fanaticism that Krystal, Lyn, Midna, Micaiah, and Ashley got.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Smashchu: I know that. Brawl emphasized on this and it's roster was well-received.

At the moment though he's now lamenting how "Nintendo hasn't done much new franchises since Brawl" and it looks like he has to either fill in more characters to existing franchises in Smash and then do some huge overhaul to the series.

I just wish Smash Bros would do a better job introducing more series for people. Brawl didn't STILL help me get informed any better about what Fire Emblem's like.
Also no casual Nintendo-fan cares a thing about franchises represented as Assist Trophies.

Diddy: Not very positively. There's a reason why I call Lip my wildcard character and don't push for her support.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah he said that pre-Brawl, and we only got Lucas. Worse yet, we got no western release for Mother 3. :/ So that's why I asked.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Takamaru would be nice if we're talking about a Japan-only character (both figuratively and literally), I would really like to see the Murasame Castle as a stage in particular.

I always had this bit of a soft spot for Japanese culture; it's the reason why I like Ganbare Goemon and Okami.

 

[Gamingboy]

I lol'd at this post because I remembered the many people supporting Geno and Krystal like crazy with the most insane reasoning behind.

Brawl's hype itself was pure insanity, to be honest. to this day, I've never seen a game getting so hyped like Brawl.

For me, it's got to be either Brawl or Pokemon Gold/Silver. Although admittedly Brawl was online hype while GS was small-group-of-childhood-friends "I heard there's going to be a PikaBLU" hype. Different types of hype.


Also, I have no doubt that once they show a real trailer, there will be plenty of idiots arriving to tout Geno, Krystal or whoever. There will also be plenty of people who make good arguments or who support a character but are maintaining modest expectations, but sadly they will likely be lost in the scramble.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Habanero: Another Goemon-fan? High-Fives! *brofist*.

Goemon-series would be SO HOME in wacky world of Smash Bros. And coming from the series that made most of it's fame in Nintendo-consoles and would so translate to it's world... maan. (-;A; )

 

[Diddy Kong]

Micaiah was hyped? I knew Lyn was hugely hyped but even they knew they couldn't stand up to Ike's demand. Midna and Krystal are understandable though. I wanted them to at that time. Not badly, as the only characters I wanted badly where actually Diddy and Ike lolz.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I thought Lyn's support was nonexistant back in Brawl? (Because of Roy or Tellius-reps)

At least she was an Assist. Poor those who got to hear about that though (but she's a deadly assist which is a plus)-

 

[Diddy Kong]

Her support was strongest before Brawl got even revealed I remember. There where just people saying: 'yeah yeah if they make a new Smash they should totally add more Fire Emblem characters, like Lyn.' a lot, and people always agreed that Lyn would be the best choice. Then, Path of Radiance came.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Lyn had more support in the west, probably due to the fact that Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword was the first installment to be released outside of Japan. But it wasn't Ridley-tier support, more like "Yea I think Lyn would be kinda neat" type deal.

 

[ChronoBound]

Micaiah was hyped? I knew Lyn was hugely hyped but even they knew they couldn't stand up to Ike's demand. Midna and Krystal are understandable though. I wanted them to at that time. Not badly, as the only characters I wanted badly where actually Diddy and Ike lolz.

Micaiah became popularly requested once Lyn got de-confirmed. Krystal, Midna, Lyn, Ashley, and Micaiah had some very mean and fanatical supporters, and it was only Krystal that was a Top 10 character in terms of support, but the anger, vitriol, and delusions made them seem a lot bigger than they actually were.

I am really surprised this has not happened with Palutena considering she is actually far more likely than those characters were during pre-Brawl, and is general is perhaps the most likely newcomer for Smash 4. A lot of Palutena support seems to be very quiet. Palutena is the most supported female newcomer this time, yet her supporters are not aggressive or vocal like was the case with most female characters with a fanbase during pre-Brawl.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Speaking which, what will come to Assist Trophies? Will it become the whole Pokeball-like category that just gets expanded, or would Namdai actually go rehaul up the system and maybe make them summonables?


Chrono: Maybe because we just KNOW Palutena's likely that we don't really feel like adding much to it.

 

[Frostwraith]

The hype for Smash 4 is going to be a step-down from Brawl. Mega Man is the biggest third-party character they can use, and there are very few Nintendo characters left that have the popularity that some of Brawl's higher-profile Nintendo newcomers did. Ridley and Little Mac are the only guys that were as popular during pre-Brawl that are still popular now (maybe Isaac as well, though his fanbase has basically collapsed in Japan). Mega Man is another character was popularly requested during pre-Brawl and is still popularly requested now.

K. Rool did not take off in requests until Diddy Kong was confirmed.

I don't think Shulk is as popularly requested now (in the West) as Isaac was during pre-Brawl. Palutena is the queen of female newcomers (as in by far the most wanted female newcomer), but her supporters are nowhere near the fanaticism that Krystal, Lyn, Midna, Micaiah, and Ashley got.

it's already noticeable, you can't compete with big icons like Meta Knight, Diddy Kong or Wario. if these characters were already in Melee, Brawl's hype wouldn't be the same.

K. Rool is very likely to appear, now that we already got Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong. if not K. Rool, then Dixie Kong. these two are the likeliest DK newcomers.

about Shulk, I agree with you. Isaac support was more during pre-Brawl than Shulk is being as of now.

about Palutena and the female character supporters, this is true as well. I remember those supporters rubbing their support in nearly every roster discussion just for the fact of them being female.

Takamaru would be nice if we're talking about a Japan-only character (both figuratively and literally), I would really like to see the Murasame Castle as a stage in particular.

I always had this bit of a soft spot for Japanese culture; it's the reason why I like Ganbare Goemon and Okami.

Takamaru isn't a bad idea at all. his game already got some mentions in Brawl, including a song on the Mario Bros. stage.

For me, it's got to be either Brawl or Pokemon Gold/Silver. Although admittedly Brawl was online hype while GS was small-group-of-childhood-friends "I heard there's going to be a PikaBLU" hype. Different types of hype.


Also, I have no doubt that once they show a real trailer, there will be plenty of idiots arriving to tout Geno, Krystal or whoever. There will also be plenty of people who make good arguments or who support a character but are maintaining modest expectations, but sadly they will likely be lost in the scramble.

I think Brawl's hype was much more than Pokémon Gold / Silver.

on your last point, I agree completely with you. trailers always overhype people.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I am really surprised this has not happened with Palutena considering she is actually far more likely than those characters were during pre-Brawl, and is general is perhaps the most likely newcomer for Smash 4. A lot of Palutena support seems to be very quiet.

Probably because this time around we have a different set of folks flying around who are more coherent, which means less screaming. Besides, the ideas have been beaten to death along with everything else, so there is hardly anything to talk about these days.

 

[---]

A lot of Palutena support seems to be very quiet.

I have an explanation for that but I don't think anyone wants to hear it.

 

[ChronoBound]

Lyn had more support in the west, probably due to the fact that Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword was the first installment to be released outside of Japan. But it wasn't Ridley-tier support, more like "Yea I think Lyn would be kinda neat" type deal.

Lyn had less support in the West than Ike during pre-Brawl. Lyn supporters were pretty much attacking the idea of Marth and Ike saying that it would confuse players if there were two swordsman who had blue-hair. You also had the Sigurd fanbase and Lyn fanbase pushing lies about Roy and FE6. The Lyn fanbase even was arguing for Marth to be cut since he was Japan-only. Lyn, like Krystal, had most of her support based in the West.

Really, a lot of the female Nintendo character fanbases during pre-Brawl were disgusting.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Triple-Hyper: My guess's already that we're... hmm.. so expecting her to be likely that we kind laze off and can't think much anything else. She's like confirmed already on our heads?

Chrono: Lyn-fans painted themselves bad. But their nightmare actually happened. (-=A=-);;

But hey guys. Just telling you...


THIS IS STILL ALL CALM BEFORE THE STORM.

 

[ChronoBound]

I have an explanation for that but I don't think anyone wants to hear it.

I'm interested. My theory is that Palutena fans feel secure enough in Palutena being on the roster, that they don't have to resort to fanboy shrillness.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Wolf was much more deserving IMO.

Spoiler

Krystal only got support because of TEH FURRIEHZ! Just kidding!

Yeah, he was.

The Krystal fanbase was very aggressive during pre-Brawl and attacked Wolf every chance they got. The Wolf fanbase was very large and intelligent. I mean just compare the pre-Brawl Wolf support topic on this site with the Krystal one. The Krystal fanbase used every tool at their disposal to de-moralize the Wolf fanbase.

Despite all of this, Wolf was still one of the most wanted characters in the West and basically on par with Krystal. Krystal simply had one of loudest fanbases (the only other one that competed with them for loudness was Geno's).

In Japan, it was an entirely different story with Wolf being in the Top 5 most wanted newcomers.

I think I remember that, albeit barely. I guess the loudness of the Krystal fanbase was what made Wolf's support seem not so big at the time, though little did I know at the time that he had a lot more support than what I had been seeing, much to my gratefulness.

The pre-Brawl Ridley support topic on this site was full of idiots and maniacs. There was a reason why I stayed away from it despite Ridley being my most wanted character during pre-Brawl.

However, Krystal and Geno had the most obnoxious fanbases of pre-Brawl even outside this site. I think the ridiculous expectations of those characters being shoe-ins for Brawl is the reason why both of those characters deflated so much for Smash 4.

I do concur with the other posters, that everyone pretty much agreed that Sakurai made the right choice with Wolf once they actually got to play with him (and especially in light of how the only new Starfox release since Brawl was a remake/enhanced port of Starfox 64).

From what I remember, there were at least two to three different Ridley threads here during pre-Brawl because of the previous ones getting locked for various reasons. lol I recall trying to stop the last one from getting locked and for the ones responsible to not go commit account suicide and get it locked before it happened, but it was all in vain, and kinda made Ridley support along with myself look bad when it did happen. Not everyone from those threads were trolls, though.

As for Kyrstal and Geno, yup. That pretty much sums it up.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also just for clarification, but adding a female is not worth it if the character in question is very minor in the series as a whole (Minda, Ashley) or just plain loathed (Krystal). This why I'm only anticipating Palutena if we're going to this route, considering she is actually likable thanks to Kid Icarus: Uprising and is importent enough to be mentioned in the Japanese title Myth of Light: The Mirror of Palutena.

Also more Pit and Palutena because it's very adorable and funny to see them together.

Spoiler

There is also my more personal reasons too I don't want to get into.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Chrono: Pretty much. You summed it better. a_(-U<>U)

Though to be honest, I'm all up to challenge incase her chances actually seem going down. Going against the odds!

 

[---]

Triple-Hyper: My guess's already that we're... hmm.. so expecting her to be likely that we kind laze off and can't think much anything else. She's like confirmed already on our heads?

I'm interested. My theory is that Palutena fans feel secure enough in Palutena being on the roster, that they don't have to resort to fanboy shrillness.

Bah, the seriousness of these responses ruined the joke I was going for. But anyway KI isn't as mainstream, Palutena is more likeable as a character, not much competition, it's still the calm before the storm. Something along those lines.

Though I will admit I myself haven't seen much support for her as you're claiming Chrono unless it's suddenly sprung up over the summer in Japan. Maybe it's because of people keeping quite, but I would think that Dixie would be beating her in the female category.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Lyn had less support in the West than Ike during pre-Brawl. Lyn supporters were pretty much attacking the idea of Marth and Ike saying that it would confuse players if there were two swordsman who had blue-hair. You also had the Sigurd fanbase and Lyn fanbase pushing lies about Roy and FE6. The Lyn fanbase even was arguing for Marth to be cut since he was Japan-only. Lyn, like Krystal, had most of her support based in the West.

Really, a lot of the female Nintendo character fanbases during pre-Brawl were disgusting.

Luckily Dixie's support wasn't so, and will never be so.

Lyn fans where deluded badly if they thought Lyn was gonna make it before Ike. I remember that one day when someone began analysing the flags on the Castle Seige stage, at first, someone mentoined it was a Daein flag, from FE9/FE10 but later someone else found out it was actually a flag from one of the countries in Marth's universe.

Dixie's support as a female is quiet cause the true fans want nothing better than the return of King K.Rool. But most would say 2 DKC newcomers isn't pushing it too far, and I agree naturally.

 

[ChronoBound]

Though I will admit I myself haven't seen much support for her as you're claiming Chrono unless it's suddenly sprung up over the summer in Japan. Maybe it's because of people keeping quite, but I would think that Dixie would be beating her in the female category.

In Japan, the only characters I see get more requests than Palutena are Mewtwo, Roy, and Mega Man. She is very popular over there now.

In the West, Palutena is now in the Top 10.

Dixie Kong is definitely the second-most wanted female character though. I am surprised Dixie Kong never received a rabid fanbase during pre-Brawl even though unlike the other female characters, she was important to her series and was actually one of the two heroes for two major games in it. I think the primary reason for this was its much more difficult to make Dixie Kong "sexy" compared to almost every other female character. I mean Krystal and Midna had the furries behind them, Ashley had the lolis, Lyn and Micaiah were just attractive women. Dixie Kong's lack of "sexiness" made her basically go unnoticed amidst the "female craziness" of the pre-Brawl period.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm pretty sure once a trailer is released we'll all be foaming at the mouth as usual. It's easy to feel subdued when we have nothing to go off.

 

[Diddy Kong]

People knew Diddy was not to be stopped. That's why.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm pretty sure once a trailer is released we'll all be foaming at the mouth as usual. It's easy to feel subdued when we have nothing to go off.

I think there are far more cynical and intelligent people around for the Smash Bros. community now than there were during Brawl's announcement. There are also far less characters to get excited about this time among the more casual fans. I think a lot of people are mostly going to be talking about the gameplay changes Sakurai has introduced than about prospective newcomers.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Star: I can believe so. But on the other hand I can't see why. We already have an idea what character might make it and we all admitted here that the Smash Bros 4's roster will definitely be less hype-inducing than Brawl's and the hype around SSB4 overall.

So how can SSB4's trailer and anything regarding it's roster make us go hyped actually?

Ah, Chrono ninja'd me.

 

[Starphoenix]

Star: I can believe so. But on the other hand I can't see why. We already might have an idea what character might make it and we all admitted here that the Smash Bros 4's roster will definitely be less hype-inducing than Brawl's and the hype around SSB4 overall.

Look, I knew 75% of the roster was going to be what it was with Brawl, but it was still exciting to see new characters and how they played. The same is true with the next game. Even if we end up with few surprises on the roster, there is still much to look forward to.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Let's face it, we're going to get surprises anyway. Ever installment gets at least one darkhorse character out there, so don't be too disappointed.

 

[ChronoBound]

Let's face it, we're going to get surprises anyway. Ever installment gets at least one darkhorse character out there, so don't be too disappointed.

Sakurai: I hope you like Sheriff, Bayonetta, and Waddle Dee.

 

[Starphoenix]

Sakurai: I hope you like Sheriff, Bayonetta, and Waddle Dee.

Surprises:
Pacman
Waddle Dee
Balloon Fighter
Olimar Jr.

 

[ChronoBound]

I would be pleasantly surprised if Waddle Dee and Balloon Fighter ended up playable. Waddle Dee because I think Bandana Dee would be an interesting fighter, and Balloon Fighter because Balloon Fight is a very, very fun game.