Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Ninka_Kiwi: Well, like I said before, Smash Bros feels a lot like "a popularity contest" at times when it comes to the characters being included.

But man... We all wish it could be more diverse in means of franchises but I dunno will it ever happen. And to put more salt on the wound the ones obscure get "powered up" to be featured everywhere now in Nintendo and actually be thought now being "BEST GAMES EVER" or "MOST BELOVED SERIES EVER".
(Kid Icarus must be the best game ever man I mean look at it being in 3DS Eshop as "Game Hall Of Fame"-section." OMG)

It's bit off-putting at least. Smash Bros isn't using itself to it's best potential and it comes out as generalising Nintendo and people eating it up and thinking the series in Smash are most best and beloved of Nintendo. I mean, Ice Climbers must be a masterpiece!

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

Yeah, I never really got how we got the Ice Climbers before Pit but oh well >.>

I'd really love for Takamaru to get in and end up getting an awesome mature action game as a result.

 

[---]

Meh, popularity isn't everything (it is only 1 of the 4 criteria after all) (neither is sales). What Saki doesn't have in popularity, he makes up for in the other 3 in huge amounts, throw in Sakurai support and he's still a good bet.

Man, we haven't had a discussion like this in a long time. Feels just like the old thread in here.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well it quite puts me off. Smash Bros would really do it's job better introducing new franchises but seeing how Sakurai has such a strict rules to determine who gets a spot or not, it goes used in a way it tends favour the already popular ones, polarising Nintendo and their other IPs even more.

Triple-Hyper: I actually wanted to say the same. Maybe it's because we all have decided to join the "lamenting".

 

[ChronoBound]

Keep your expectations low in relation to the roster. Melee had an extremely disappointing final roster, yet the game play blew everyone away. Here is an account I wrote of the pre-Melee time about when Melee's roster was leaked and finally confirmed:

There were loads and mountains of angry posts saying they would not buy Melee, and some even going as far to say they would not buy another Nintendo game ever again. People even thought the developers were purposely sabotaging their own game to have made a roster as horrible as that one. There were even topics asking people to make a roster worse than the official one, with many people flat out seriously saying "not possible". When word got out that Ganondorf was actually Captain Ganondorf, peoplef flipped out even more (Ganondorf was the most wanted newcomer after Bowser was confirmed). There was crying and meltdowns as far as the eye could see.

There were lots of people huddled around the small flame of hope that there were two more characters in the game, and that those last two characters were the characters that they wanted most. People thought that the team snuck in two nuggests of gold underneath the dung heap that was most of Melee's newcomers. However, when the North American player's guide for Melee was released, those hopes were dashed for most people (though there were still some people insisting that there were two more super secret characters in the game years after Melee's release).

However, when Melee finally released, and when people actually got their hands on the game, a very different tune was coming out amidst all the bawling about the dismal roster decisions. These people found a fighting engine that was much more satisying than Smash 64, much more and more inventive stages, loads of new items, a liiteral Nintendo museum (trophies), and the multitude of new modes the game had over Smash 64. Indeed, many people ended up falling in love with the two unknowns (Marth and Roy) and also thought lame, obscure guys like Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch were pretty inventive. The only three characters that were pretty much still whining about was Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link (and also about Ganondorf being a Captain Falcon clone).

Everyone that played Melee declared it leaps and bounds above its predescessor despite the roster not being what most people wanted. Indeed, nearly every speculator was blindsided by this (no one saw Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, and Roy coming). There were also few people expecting Marth (probably due to the fact that few people knew about Fire Emblem and also no one thought they would include Japan-only characters) and also many people did not think Falco would get in over Wolf. Indeed, the only newcomer characters that the speculators thought would get in that actually got in were Ganondorf, Mewtwo, and maybe Zelda.

 

[Opossum]

^This is why it's sort of nice to have someone around from pre-Melee. I'm honestly surprised that most people doubted Falco at that time.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

I'm curious as to what the actual roster expectations were back when Melee first came out. I was pretty young when it came out so I never actually looked into what people were hoping for roster wise. I do remember a similar vibe when the leaks were coming out about Brawl, like people being super disappointed Mewtwo and Roy weren't coming back, and characters like ROB got in over Ridley.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm curious as to what the actual roster expectations were back when Melee first came out. I was pretty young when it came out so I never actually looked into what people were hoping for roster wise. I do remember a similar vibe when the leaks were coming out about Brawl, like people being super disappointed Mewtwo and Roy weren't coming back, and characters like ROB got in over Ridley.

Here you go in regards to what it was like during pre-Melee for speculation:

You also had very bitter arguments about roster size. The character selection screen only showed five hidden character boxes (with a hand covering Sheik/Zelda's box, making many people believe Sheik was going to be a hidden character). There were people who thought that for this reason there would only be an additional five more characters unveiled after the four newcomers already shown, thus there was a lot of competitive viciousness for those spots.

There was particularly people out for blood. There were a few idiots saying Luigi would be cut, but those people got massively dogpiled due to the popularity of the character and the existence of Luigi's Mansion. There was a particularly large group of people saying Jigglypuff had to go, especially if there were only five more characters left to be unveiled. At this time though, it was known that Jigglypuff's inclusion was the result of her Japanese popularity at the time of Smash 64.

I spent a lot of time defending Jigglypuff's place in Smash Bros. from these people. This was basically like Roy for pre-Brawl and now. I argued that Jigglypuff had no reason to go, especially considering that a lot of people still loved using her. However, deep down, I was still a little worried about the possibility of Jigglypuff being cut.

However, there was a second school of thought amongst the roster size debate. These people believed that the development team was pulling our legs and that there were actually "hidden" boxes without question marks on them, and that there were going to be more character slots than 19. They deduced from the size of the character selection screen, that there would be 27 playable characters (due to 27 character boxes being on the screen).

However, the more "grounded" Smash Bros. speculators though, they pretty much thought it was going to be 19 playable characters (though nearly all of these people did not want the roster to be so low).

The five hidden characters people generally thought them to be were either (if you thought Jigglypuff was going to return):
1. Luigi
2. Jigglypuff
3. Ganondorf
4. King Dedede/Wario/Diddy Kong
5. A Pokemon newcomer (Mewtwo, Meowth, and Heracross were the most suggested candidates for this) or a retro newcomer (Pit or Balloon Fighter)

If you thought Jigglypuff was a goner:
1. Luigi
2. Ganondorf
3. A Pokemon newcomer (same choices apply here)
4. Some sort of classic character or new series (Pit and Balloon Fighter were the favorites here).
4. King Dedede/Wario/Diddy Kong

Needless to say I did not want to believe this (because there were so many characters I wanted that would not get in), so while I publically thought 19 characters was what we would get, I was really hoping for the "hidden boxes" theory to be true and not wishful thinking.

As we got closer to Melee's release, there were some hidden character confirmations unofficially by various Nintendo developers via interview (Ganondorf and Luigi, and maybe Jigglypuff). The hype for Melee was unlike anything I had seen, and many people thought there was going to be an excess of 19 playable characters. There was a very large number who even thought there would be over 30 characters.

I don't remember the particular order of character requests outside of the Top 3 after Melee's announcement (Ganondorf, Diddy Kong, and Wario), however, these were the character who came up the most for requests: Wario, Waluigi, Toad (up until he was deconfirmed), Diddy Kong, Ganondorf, Zelda (there was people arguing whether Sheik's inclusion meant Zelda would not show up), Ridley, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Wolf, Falco (though the Falco fans pretty much accepted Wolf was going to get in over their character due to Wolf's appearance in the Melee opening), Mewtwo, Meowth (Meowth fans were particularly boisted by the Meowth's Party GameCube tech demo), Charizard (though like Toad, he was de-confirmed after a few months), Heracross (the most popularly requested second-generation Pokemon), Samurai Goroh, Poo (who was basically the Geno of pre-Melee, a bunch of loudmouths talking up how likely he is, despite giving no actual reasons aside from "think of the moveset potential" and "he's so cool), Pit, Balloon Fighter, Banjo-Kazooie, and Joanna Dark.

On the last two characters mentioned, there was a debate as to whether Rare-made characters would show up, and the nature of Rare's properties to Nintendo. Combine this also with the rumblings about Rare being separated from Nintendo and potential buy-out by Microsoft, you had people thinking even Diddy Kong had problems (thus you had some people trumping Donkey Kong Jr. as the most likely DK newcomer since he was at least created by Nintendo). Joanna Dark was one of two of the only female characters to get a lot of requests (the other being Zelda). However, combined with the uncertainty of Rare's characters with the fact that Joanna's game was much more violent than any other Nintendo propery already in Smash Bros., there was a lot of animosity toward including her.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Chrono: Oh man, that must've been quite a ride back then. (-lAl-);;;; I was afraid of Jiggs leaving Smash the time Dojo sprung up...

Brawl wasn't bad tho IMO (I think only Wolf must've been CaptainDorf-Banned. R.O.B's was bit hated too but he's unique still)...

Opossum: Chrono's the one who I regard as "the warrior who has experienced the speculation of the old days". Makes me think of old lords who have seen their days of being in the battlefield. (Now you can shoot me for giving out honorable-sounding intepretiations) But yeah, Chrono's been out there longer than one might think. (Back to 64-days, I think?)

I remember watching the Brawl-updates once a month everytime I got a chance to go at nearest Internet Cafe in Africa. Good Ol' days there.

 

[Starphoenix]

Well it quite puts me off. Smash Bros would really do it's job better introducing new franchises but seeing how Sakurai has such a strict rules to determine who gets a spot or not, it goes used in a way it tends favour the already popular ones, polarising Nintendo and their other IPs even more.

The problem is there haven't been many new series that are going to scream "put me in", which is pretty much what it takes for Sakurai. Since Pikmin, the only significant, first party Nintendo series that has come into existence is Xenoblade. Other than that, the rest are the usual suspects, or secondary series that Sakurai is already hesitant to turn towards. Yes, you could say that Sakurai could just load up on old series, but will he?

 

[Opossum]

Just as a question, is Saki considered First or Second Party?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

-snip-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjBRNqwDPrU

 

[Frostwraith]

I think that Brawl's roster was the best roster. The problem with Melee's roster was the high amount of filler characters (AKA the clone characters).

many of the characters in Brawl could've appeared in Melee, like Diddy Kong, Wario, Pit, Wolf, King Dedede and Meta Knight.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Just as a question, is Saki considered First or Second Party?

Second, I think, since his games are developed by Treasure, a third party, but published by Nintendo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Keep your expectations low in relation to the roster. Melee had an extremely disappointing final roster, yet the game play blew everyone away. Here is an account I wrote of the pre-Melee time about when Melee's roster was leaked and finally confirmed:

There were loads and mountains of angry posts saying they would not buy Melee, and some even going as far to say they would not buy another Nintendo game ever again. People even thought the developers were purposely sabotaging their own game to have made a roster as horrible as that one. There were even topics asking people to make a roster worse than the official one, with many people flat out seriously saying "not possible". When word got out that Ganondorf was actually Captain Ganondorf, peoplef flipped out even more (Ganondorf was the most wanted newcomer after Bowser was confirmed). There was crying and meltdowns as far as the eye could see.

There were lots of people huddled around the small flame of hope that there were two more characters in the game, and that those last two characters were the characters that they wanted most. People thought that the team snuck in two nuggests of gold underneath the dung heap that was most of Melee's newcomers. However, when the North American player's guide for Melee was released, those hopes were dashed for most people (though there were still some people insisting that there were two more super secret characters in the game years after Melee's release).

However, when Melee finally released, and when people actually got their hands on the game, a very different tune was coming out amidst all the bawling about the dismal roster decisions. These people found a fighting engine that was much more satisying than Smash 64, much more and more inventive stages, loads of new items, a liiteral Nintendo museum (trophies), and the multitude of new modes the game had over Smash 64. Indeed, many people ended up falling in love with the two unknowns (Marth and Roy) and also thought lame, obscure guys like Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch were pretty inventive. The only three characters that were pretty much still whining about was Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link (and also about Ganondorf being a Captain Falcon clone).

Everyone that played Melee declared it leaps and bounds above its predescessor despite the roster not being what most people wanted. Indeed, nearly every speculator was blindsided by this (no one saw Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, and Roy coming). There were also few people expecting Marth (probably due to the fact that few people knew about Fire Emblem and also no one thought they would include Japan-only characters) and also many people did not think Falco would get in over Wolf. Indeed, the only newcomer characters that the speculators thought would get in that actually got in were Ganondorf, Mewtwo, and maybe Zelda.

My only REAL complaint with Melee was that Diddy was not in. I was even slightly hyped for characters as Young Link and Pichu at first. But felt it was especially undeserving that StarFox would get 2 characters, and not DKC.

I never knew Marth, Roy, Ice Climber or Mr.Game & Watch of coarse, but never would've expect characters as Zelda and Sheik to become playable. Peach was less of a problem, but cannot say I was fully expecting her either. Neither did I HONESTLY expect Mewtwo. Though I did once thought while playing Smash 64: damn, wouldn't Mewtwo be awesome in this? A few weeks later, I discovered Melee's roster online.

So yeah, the Melee roster was basically a huge surprise for me. Both good and bad. Brawl's was less surprising (and less bad), though did anyone really expect Snake and R.O.B.? At least with Brawl's, basically every big request sans Ridley got in.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Nintendo didn't agree with Rare wanting a little more of their share after the N64 age so I've read, so Rare left and got a contract with Microsoft. I think already half of the people working for the 'old Rare' where already gone though.

And to think raging fanboys make MS out to be the devil's incarnate because of Nintendo no longer having Rare, when really, they left Ninty on their own accord... I don't blame Rare for doing that then if that reason's really the case. With all they did for Nintendo during the SNES and N64 days, they should've given them their much-earned increase in share, then they'd prolly still be together despite half the people from the old Rare being gone. Meh.

There's no problem with Microsoft because everything in the game is Nintendo owned (save for Killer Instinct references in DKC2, (and Microsoft was recently denied the Killer Instinct copyright)). I think it might have something to do with renewing the contract for the Wii-U VC, but who knows.

MS was recently denied KI? Whose gonna be able to get the copyrights for it at some point then I wonder?

For already represented series, I think the dev team could add stuff like stages and music from such series, even if there aren't much new characters to add. I don't think it's weird that, despite only having Samus as a character, Metroid still got two new stages in Brawl and one returning from Melee (a total of three).

Do think it's weird though how all those said stages for Metroid were pretty much the same in terms of environmental hazards and design (with the exception of Frigate Orpheon as far as the latter). Metroid should have a stage that stands out from the rest more like Phendrana Drifts or somethin instead of more of your typical rising lava maps.


And Chrono, you make me glad I wasn't part of any Smash community during pre-Melee. Hell, I'm glad I wasn't on any Smash-related forums during most of the years that I had played Melee before Brawl.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The problem is there haven't been many new series that are going to scream "put me in", which is pretty much what it takes for Sakurai. Since Pikmin, the only significant, first party Nintendo series that has come into existence is Xenoblade. Other than that, the rest are the usual suspects, or secondary series that Sakurai is already hesitant to turn towards. Yes, you could say that Sakurai could just load up on old series, but will he?

And now it had lead him to just scrape the bottom of the barrel. Though if your point is that those series must be really that undeserving/unworthy because they don't really appeal to anything than the minor cult fanbases and aren't really that important to Nintendo? Or not really bringing anything new to Smash Bros.

I agree BTW that Brawl had the best roster.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

@Opossum

Sin and punishment 1 was Codeveloped by Nintendo R&D1, so he may very well be a first party character.

 

[Frostwraith]

The problem is there haven't been many new series that are going to scream "put me in", which is pretty much what it takes for Sakurai. Since Pikmin, the only significant, first party Nintendo series that has come into existence is Xenoblade. Other than that, the rest are the usual suspects, or secondary series that Sakurai is already hesitant to turn towards. Yes, you could say that Sakurai could just load up on old series, but will he?

Sakurai has expressed desire in putting old school characters in the new Smash, which IMO isn't a bad idea at all, as it means more series represented. Ice Climbers, Pit, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch are worthy of being in SSB.

who knows what series might have the same fate as Kid Icarus?

I feel the same for Japan-only characters. Fire Emblem, anyone?

My only REAL complaint with Melee was that Diddy was not in. I was even slightly hyped for characters as Young Link and Pichu at first. But felt it was especially undeserving that StarFox would get 2 characters, and not DKC.

I never knew Marth, Roy, Ice Climber or Mr.Game & Watch of coarse, but never would've expect characters as Zelda and Sheik to become playable. Peach was less of a problem, but cannot say I was fully expecting her either. Neither did I HONESTLY expect Mewtwo. Though I did once thought while playing Smash 64: damn, wouldn't Mewtwo be awesome in this? A few weeks later, I discovered Melee's roster online.

So yeah, the Melee roster was basically a huge surprise for me. Both good and bad. Brawl's was less surprising (and less bad), though did anyone really expect Snake and R.O.B.? At least with Brawl's, basically every big request sans Ridley got in.

I agree pretty much with this, as I've made a similar statement already.

And now it had lead him to just scrape the bottom of the barrel. Though if your point is that those series must be really that undeserving/unworthy because they don't really appeal to anything than the minor cult fanbases?

I agree BTW that Brawl had the best roster.

EarthBound got two characters in Brawl and so did Fire Emblem in Melee. therefore, anything's possible.

 

[ChronoBound]

Chrono: Oh man, that must've been quite a ride back then. (-lAl-);;;; I was afraid of Jiggs leaving Smash the time Dojo sprung up...

Brawl wasn't bad tho IMO (I think only Wolf must've been CaptainDorf-Banned. R.O.B's was bit hated too but he's unique still)...

Opossum: Chrono's the one who I regard as "the warrior who has experienced the speculation of the old days". Makes me think of old lords who have seen their days of being in the battlefield. (Now you can shoot me for giving out honorable-sounding intepretiations) But yeah, Chrono's been out there longer than one might think. (Back to 64-days, I think?)

Wolf was not received badly so much as the Krystal fanbase had convinced themselves that Krystal was going to be the third playable Star Fox character (and also Krystal's voice actress saying she did voice work for Brawl solidfied this). Wolf actually was as requested as Krystal was in the West, and in Japan Wolf had a massive advantage in popularity and requests.

Falco getting in before Wolf was basically the pre-Melee equivalent if Dixie Kong were to get in before K. Rool. There were a lot of happy people (Falco had a lot of support then, and Dixie Kong has a lot of support now), but there were a lot of upset people due them expecting the other to be a higher priority.

As to when I began to be involved with Smash Bros., I started before Smash 64 was even released in Japan. I learned of Smash 64's existence from a Metroid fansite. I was primarily hyped for Smash 64 due to Samus being a playable character. I wrote about pre-Melee announcement stuff too, so I can share that story if you want.

Smash 64 was more of a sleeper hit, it basically came out of nowhere, so a community did not really develop for it until Smash 64 was released.

 

[Starphoenix]

And now it had lead him to just scrape the bottom of the barrel. Though if your point is that those series must be really that undeserving/unworthy because they don't really appeal to anything than the minor cult fanbases?

I'm saying that the last time Sakurai commented on adding new series in Brawl, he said that beyond Pikmin there were not many character driven series by Nintendo, and this was with series like Golden Sun and Sin and Punishment already available. Needless to say, that situation hasn't changed much. What makes it worse is Legendary Starfy, Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, and Sin and Punishment: Star Successor did not give any reason to change Sakurai's mind, heck, two of those did not even retain the same characters. This is why I said Xenoblade is arguably the largest "series" Nintendo has created since Brawl's release.

 

[ChronoBound]

Brawl had a very good roster. It would have been perfect to me if it had Ridley, Mega Man, Mewtwo, and Roy. Perfect. Heck, if even just Ridley were in Brawl, I would not even be following Smash 4.

 

[Opossum]

I don't exactly see why you think Starfy didn't do much to change Sakurai's mind when he at least got an international game. Other than that, I see where you're coming from, Star.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Wolf was not received badly so much as the Krystal fanbase had convinced themselves that Krystal was going to be the third playable Star Fox character (and also Krystal's voice actress saying she did voice work for Brawl solidfied this). Wolf actually was as requested as Krystal was in the West, and in Japan Wolf had a massive advantage in popularity and requests.

Falco getting in before Wolf was basically the pre-Melee equivalent if Dixie Kong were to get in before K. Rool. There were a lot of happy people (Falco had a lot of support then, and Dixie Kong has a lot of support now), but there were a lot of upset people due them expecting the other to be a higher priority.

As to when I began to be involved with Smash Bros., I started before Smash 64 was even released in Japan. I learned of Smash 64's existence from a Metroid fansite. I was primarily hyped for Smash 64 due to Samus being a playable character. I wrote about pre-Melee announcement stuff too, so I can share that story if you want.

Smash 64 was more of a sleeper hit, it basically came out of nowhere, so a community did not really develop for it until Smash 64 was released.

Yeah, I remember that. Didn't really know what to expect of Smash 64 before it came out at the time though aside from like one or two characters that I knew of being playable.

As for Krystal and Wolf, did find it kinda funny how that ended up being the case, with how often Wolf support wasn't really taken seriously during pre-Brawl.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Brawl had a very good roster. It would have been perfect to me if it had Ridley, Mega Man, Mewtwo, and Roy. Perfect. Heck, if even just Ridley were in Brawl, I would not even be following Smash 4.

If Mewtwo alone would've been in Brawl, I would probably be playing Brawl right now.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'm saying that the last time Sakurai commented on adding new series in Brawl, he said that beyond Pikmin there were not many character driven series by Nintendo, and this was with series like Golden Sun and Sin and Punishment already available. Needless to say, that situation hasn't changed much. What makes it worse is Legendary Starfy, Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, and Sin and Punishment: Star Successor did not give any reason to change Sakurai's mind, heck, two of those did not even retain the same characters. This is why I said Xenoblade is arguably the largest "series" Nintendo has created since Brawl's release.

Well that's my point. He would've even given them a chance in Brawl... maybe things MIGHT have been even different if it happened. And now things are just worse for these series, having them to be practically at "no-no"-category. IMO it's a huge shame, considering that if looking past these series's "significance" to Nintendo, they would bring lots of cool content to Smash Bros.

Looking it this way, we might then get Xenoblade (Pikmin) and Rhythm Heaven (Animal Crossing) as the only new reps. Also Little Mac and/or Takamaru as the retro franchises.

Chrono & Diddy: I think I have most of the popular characters I wanted (I'm actually just waiting for Toad and Dixie), but SSB4 might really be the last stand for me seriously following these series.

 

[Frostwraith]

Brawl had a very good roster. It would have been perfect to me if it had Ridley, Mega Man, Mewtwo, and Roy. Perfect. Heck, if even just Ridley were in Brawl, I would not even be following Smash 4.

so, basically, all you want in Smash is Ridley...? o.o

Yeah, I remember that. Didn't really know what to expect of Smash 64 before it came out at the time though aside from like one or two characters that I knew of being playable.

As for Krystal and Wolf, did find it kinda funny how that ended up being the case, with how often Wolf support wasn't really taken seriously during pre-Brawl.

Wolf was much more deserving IMO.

Spoiler

Krystal only got support because of TEH FURRIEHZ! Just kidding!

 

[Diddy Kong]

About Wolf vs Krystal, I think I was on the Krystal-side of these. But I wasn't dissapointed with Wolf, not in the slightest after seeing his moveset. I was on the Krystal side cause of Rare-bias, and having only played Adventures at that point (later I also played Command lol). But yeah, I see now Wolf was the much better choice and never made a point out of it.

Would've liked to see Midna instead of Sheik though in the Zelda roster.

Doubt I'll be following Smash after this either. The fact I follow it now is only to determine if I get a 3DS or Wii U or not lolz

 

[ChronoBound]

As for Krystal and Wolf, did find it kinda funny how that ended up being the case, with how often Wolf support wasn't really taken seriously during pre-Brawl.

The Krystal fanbase was very aggressive during pre-Brawl and attacked Wolf every chance they got. The Wolf fanbase was very large and intelligent. I mean just compare the pre-Brawl Wolf support topic on this site with the Krystal one. The Krystal fanbase used every tool at their disposal to de-moralize the Wolf fanbase.

Despite all of this, Wolf was still one of the most wanted characters in the West and basically on par with Krystal. Krystal simply had one of loudest fanbases (the only other one that competed with them for loudness was Geno's).

In Japan, it was an entirely different story with Wolf being in the Top 5 most wanted newcomers.

 

[Frostwraith]

About Wolf vs Krystal, I think I was on the Krystal-side of these. But I wasn't dissapointed with Wolf, not in the slightest after seeing his moveset. I was on the Krystal side cause of Rare-bias, and having only played Adventures at that point (later I also played Command lol). But yeah, I see now Wolf was the much better choice and never made a point out of it.

Would've liked to see Midna instead of Sheik though in the Zelda roster.

why INSTEAD of Sheik and not ALONG with Sheik?

I think Sheik should stay for the next Smash, I mean, she is part of Zelda's moveset.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Maybe all the whining was the reason why Krystal was (thankfully) excluded. Kinda ironic considering Star Fox: Command.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ridley's was always the loudest. Diddy's support thread was full with trolls as well.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

I never really got the appeal of a character like Geno being playable, sure he's cool, but I always cringe when people say he has a great chance of getting in.

 

[ChronoBound]

so, basically, all you want in Smash is Ridley...? o.o

Ridley is by far my most wanted newcomer for Smash 4. It has been that way since Melee was announced.

However, there are several other characters I want in Smash 4 besides Ridley. Mega Man, Mewtwo, Roy, Little Mac, Dixie Kong, and Toad. The latter two I am not getting my hopes up on, since they got a lot going against them.

 

[Frostwraith]

The Krystal fanbase was very aggressive during pre-Brawl and attacked Wolf every chance they got. The Wolf fanbase was very large and intelligent. I mean just compare the pre-Brawl Wolf support topic on this site with the Krystal one. The Krystal fanbase used every tool at their disposal to de-moralize the Wolf fanbase.

Despite all of this, Wolf was still one of the most wanted characters in the West and basically on par with Krystal. Krystal simply had one of loudest fanbases (the only other one that competed with them for loudness was Geno's).

In Japan, it was an entirely different story with Wolf being in the Top 5 most wanted newcomers.

with Wolf being so requested in Japan, Krystal had no chance whatsoever.

I still remember the endless support for Krystal and Geno, it was insane.

Maybe all the whining was the reason why Krystal was (thankfully) excluded. Kinda ironic considering Star Fox: Command.

an ironic fate, isn't it?

Ridley's was always the loudest. Diddy's support thread was full with trolls as well.

at least, Diddy got in, and he deserves to be in Smash.

Ridley could finally appear in this game, but only time will tell...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ridley could appear as a playable character since Sakurai realized the idea in that Nintendo Power article. Though since he was laughing, maybe it was just a joke to him or something.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ridley got in as a boss though, twice. He wasn't really forgotten, just not taken seriously as an attempt to make him as a playable character.

 

[Frostwraith]

Ridley could appear as a playable character since Sakurai recognized the idea in that Nintendo Power article. Though since he was laughing, maybe it was just a joke to him or something.

yeah... that.

despite the great support Ridley has, his appearence as a playable character will depend on Sakurai's stance, which is somewhat ambiguous if not unfavorable.

 

[ChronoBound]

Ridley's was always the loudest. Diddy's support thread was full with trolls as well.

The pre-Brawl Ridley support topic on this site was full of idiots and maniacs. There was a reason why I stayed away from it despite Ridley being my most wanted character during pre-Brawl.

However, Krystal and Geno had the most obnoxious fanbases of pre-Brawl even outside this site. I think the ridiculous expectations of those characters being shoe-ins for Brawl is the reason why both of those characters deflated so much for Smash 4.

I do concur with the other posters, that everyone pretty much agreed that Sakurai made the right choice with Wolf once they actually got to play with him (and especially in light of how the only new Starfox release since Brawl was a remake/enhanced port of Starfox 64).

 

[Frostwraith]

The pre-Brawl Ridley support topic on this site was full of idiots and maniacs. There was a reason why I stayed away from it despite Ridley being my most wanted character during pre-Brawl.

However, Krystal and Geno had the most obnoxious fanbases of pre-Brawl even outside this site. I think the ridiculous expectations of those characters being shoe-ins for Brawl is the reason why both of those characters deflated so much for Smash 4.

I do concur with the other posters, that everyone pretty much agreed that Sakurai made the right choice with Wolf once they actually got to play with him (and especially in light of how the only new Starfox release since Brawl was a remake/enhanced port of Starfox 64).

I lol'd at this post because I remembered the many people supporting Geno and Krystal like crazy with the most insane reasoning behind.

Brawl's hype itself was pure insanity, to be honest. to this day, I've never seen a game getting so hyped like Brawl.