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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

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Scoliosis Jones

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Assuming Smash 4 comes out in 2 years, we likely won't see another Smash Bros for 10 years from now (or something like that anyway). So if lets say Bowser jr. doesn't get in this time, he won't be in for 10 years, leaving those fans who want him so badly high and dry.

DLC would prevent this. Its not like there needs to be 35 DLC characters or anything. Just a few over a span of time. Like for example, maybe over a span of a year, they release new characters and or stages every 2 or 3 months, kind of like what Playstation All Stars is already doing. Surely they wouldn't be a ridiculous price either. Nintendo is usually good with that stuff.

And i don't know why everyone is freaking out about DLC being bad. It's not taking anything away, simply adding extra stuff. Some DLC isn't on the disc, so its not like we're getting cheated out of stuff. If we get more stuff for a decent price, if any, i'd be all for it. I mean hey, the first DLC pack for PSAS is free. You never know
 

ChronoBound

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I definitely think Smash 4 will have some form of DLC, though I am doubting there will be any new characters offered as DLC.
 

Frostwraith

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Assuming Smash 4 comes out in 2 years, we likely won't see another Smash Bros for 10 years from now (or something like that anyway). So if lets say Bowser jr. doesn't get in this time, he won't be in for 10 years, leaving those fans who want him so badly high and dry.

DLC would prevent this. Its not like there needs to be 35 DLC characters or anything. Just a few over a span of time. Like for example, maybe over a span of a year, they release new characters and or stages every 2 or 3 months, kind of like what Playstation All Stars is already doing. Surely they wouldn't be a ridiculous price either. Nintendo is usually good with that stuff.

And i don't know why everyone is freaking out about DLC being bad. It's not taking anything away, simply adding extra stuff. Some DLC isn't on the disc, so its not like we're getting cheated out of stuff. If we get more stuff for a decent price, if any, i'd be all for it. I mean hey, the first DLC pack for PSAS is free. You never know
I think Nintendo handled well the NSMB2 DLC. and I think there's only one company who does the whole Disc Locked Content thing: Capcom

and I've heard that Sakurai would've done DLC if the Wii supported it. don't know if that's true, though.
 

Diddy Kong

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It's almost too good to be true. Which was the same with Stage Builder, and look what we got.

Am in for it aslong as it's done well. In that way Smash may look at other games for all I care.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I'm fine with DLC, really.

As for Zelda characters, I'd prefer to just add Tingle in and call it a day. No clones, no supporting characters that have little importance, no one-offs. He's the only one besides Link to get his own game that Nintendo actually made. That's bumps him up to most important Zelda characters currently.(that is not a one-off, as Demise is important too, respectively)

For the DK series, I prefer K. Rool first, then Dixie. Both would be nice.

Mario? Eh, Waluigi, Dr. Mario, Paper, or Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario are my only reasonable choices. Toad is not bad either, no doubt.

Wario and Yoshi series? Not many choices. Kat and Ana could work, as well as Shy Guy or Kamek. Captain Syrup's another one.

F-Zero really only has Black Shadow and Samurai Goroh at this point.

StarFox has Krystal. I wouldn't vote for anyone beyond her.

Anything else, eh.
 

Diddy Kong

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Equal representation would be the best but that never happened. Just hope that quantity won't overrule quality.
 

SmashChu

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I definitely think Smash 4 will have some form of DLC, though I am doubting there will be any new characters offered as DLC.
I'd be surprised if it wasn't characters. Nintendo does plan to sell it, and characters would make the most money. We'll see though.

BTW, has anyone entertained the idea of Mallo from Pushmo.
 

ChronoBound

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I'd be surprised if it wasn't characters. Nintendo does plan to sell it, and characters would make the most money. We'll see though.

BTW, has anyone entertained the idea of Mallo from Pushmo.
I already said that the only DLC I could see happening would be characters cut from Melee and Brawl, but I find even this unlikely.

Personally, I would not mind paying for Dr. Mario and Pichu, especially considering it would be my last Smash.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Well DLC can be done individually or in bundles. So let's say they release 3 characters in a stage for $10. If you didn't want all of it at once, you could buy one part of it by itself.

And sure they could only do characters from Melee and Brawl, but what profit is there in that? Dr. Mario is imo an alt costume at best. Other characters that have a lot of popularity would generate a lot of sales. I would understand Mewtwo and Roy though.

Especially because even if it is offered, you don't HAVE to buy it. Or you can wait for an inevitable price drop. Especially if the roster is already balanced, balanced DLC characters would be wonderful.
 

Diddy Kong

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For me stages, coupled with music of coarse. Online balancing with good explanations and nothing too big would be good for example. Say, a notice of : Attacks made stronger: Fox Forward Smash, with a small video of the move being used on a certain character in the old and in the new version for example. That with other changes on the character on the screen at the same time. Then you could view changes to other characters in a similar way.
 

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I'd be surprised if it wasn't characters. Nintendo does plan to sell it, and characters would make the most money. We'll see though.

BTW, has anyone entertained the idea of Mallo from Pushmo.
Yes, I have toyed with the idea of Mallo from Pushmo/Crashmo. I like the idea of Mallo as a sumo wrestler. Too bad the game is too peaceful that Sakurai is going to discount it like he did with Animal Crossing.
 

Arcadenik

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I want both King K. Rool and Dixie Kong. I would even go as far as to want Kiddy Kong paired with Dixie Kong. :awesome:
 

Reyson

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What about SSB4 focusing on mainly new franchises being added in and DLC adding in side characters from existing/well represented games for those who want it? Characters like Waluigi, Bowser Jr., some pokemon, Dixie Kong, Roy, Samurai Goroh, Krystal, etc. can be optional DLC later on for fans of those characters. It seems easier to add side characters as DLC than to have a franchise be represented by only a DLC character.
 
D

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Honestly, I would love to see completely new DLC characters, but knowing Sakurai, it will never happen. :( Even DLC for cut characters seems unlikely.

I'm in support of both Dixie and K. Rool's inclusion. Granted, I prefer K. Rool, but Dixie's a great choice as well and probably the most deserving potential newcomer that's a female.
GoldenYuiitusin said:
However, the "poor treatment" Starfy got in Brawl is kind of overstated. Bear in mind that while somewhat of a big name in Japan, during Brawl's development that was the ONLY place he had a big name, especially due to the fact he was Japan exclusive, and Sakurai is noted to have a bit of an issue with using Japanese exclusive characters in Smash.
As for weak support, outside Shulk, he's the only character from a non-Retro, non-3rd Partya series not represented in Smash to have any sort of following in Japan from what Chrono has said.
I think Sakurai stated he wanted to limit Japanese-only characters after Brawl. But anyway, I don't see how being Japanese-exclusive could have contributed to Starfy being a damageable AT.

Are you referring to that one website where Starfy was popularly requested (back in March from ChronoBound)? If so, I don't see how one website automatically makes Starfy a semi-popular choice.
ChronoBound said:
By necessary, I mean a character that has been within that franchise since the beginning (or near beginning, as in by the second installment) and has continually had important roles within each game in the series, or most of them. Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Ganondorf, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Falco, and Wolf all meet that (though Falco seems to be no more important than the other members of Fox's team). Diddy Kong was basically the face of Rare's contribution to the DK series and he has fared far better than any other Rare created Nintendo character since Rare left Nintendo. Diddy Kong made regular appearances in the Mario spinoffs and continues to make regular appearances.

By comparison, Dixie Kong's post-Rare appearances have been regulated to Paon's mediocre DK games (King of Swing, Jungle Climber, Bongo Blast) and three Mario sports titles (Baseball, Hoops 3-on-3, and Super Sluggers). K. Rool had the same fate, only with appearing in one Mario spinoff (Super Sluggers).

For this reason, K. Rool and Dixie Kong has basically been absent from the minds of many players since the SNES/N64 days. Keep in mind though that each installment of the DKC trilogy was within the Top 10 highest selling SNES games, so they are still in a lot of people's minds despite their long hiatus.

However, as I said, its perfectly plausible Sakurai takes a look at Donkey Kong Country Returns and sees the franchise is fine with just DK and Diddy as its playable characters, and looks for other ways to rep the series (I am think Rambi is going to be an Assist Trophy this time, and DK will probably have a stage from Returns as well as possibly a new DK Arcade stage).
The bolded is pretty contradictory.

I don't think Sakurai is going to just look at DKCR and exclude two popular requests (K. Rool and Dixie) just because they didn't appear because they have more to their resume than just recent appearances (which btw will not get a character in. Very few people are pushing for Pushmo despite getting a new game).

What's more important are these factors; would they want to make fans play the game, are they unique, do they contribute to game balance, do they fit into the style of Smash Bros., and are they important enough to warrant inclusion?

Those are the ones that will decide whenever or not they get seriously considered for playable status and both K. Rool and Dixie meet them. This is why they (or at least K. Rool) are considered among the more likely newcomers.
 
D

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No, he stated this during Brawl's development, on the old Japanese Dojo.
While obviously, the original source cannot be given, this is the next best thing.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=72642&
Granted, he did state that the success of Marth and Roy in Melee, there may be more. MAY being the operative word. And sure enough, there was one other; Lucas. Though his case is special, as when he was considered for Melee as Ness' replacement, he wasn't going to be one due to Earthbound 64.

And no. I'm referring to a recent post Chrono made in regards to his overall results (not just one website).
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15085409&postcount=2962
Other: Shulk gets quite a lot of requests. Shulk is easily the most requested Nintendo character from a series not represented yet with a playable character in Smash Bros. A distant second would be Starfy.
 

MagnesD3

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If smash 4 just gives me ridley, k. rool, or krystal, Id be happy, there a still a ton of series that characters can come from to be anticipated just for the surprise they can bring, the anticipation is just as high for me as it was for brawl cuz with how few characters were added in brawl they left a lot of interesting ones out to look out for.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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I think Nintendo handled well the NSMB2 DLC. and I think there's only one company who does the whole Disc Locked Content thing: Crapcom

and I've heard that Sakurai would've done DLC if the Wii supported it. don't know if that's true, though.
Fixed for the truth. :cool:

:phone:
 

Frostwraith

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But what kind of DLC then we'd see being more hyped than the characters?

Stages? Music? Aesthetics? (-=^=-)
anything! =D

costumes would be very nice, as well as music. DLC stages would also come with some music to accompany it.

Well DLC can be done individually or in bundles. So let's say they release 3 characters in a stage for $10. If you didn't want all of it at once, you could buy one part of it by itself.

And sure they could only do characters from Melee and Brawl, but what profit is there in that? Dr. Mario is imo an alt costume at best. Other characters that have a lot of popularity would generate a lot of sales. I would understand Mewtwo and Roy though.

Especially because even if it is offered, you don't HAVE to buy it. Or you can wait for an inevitable price drop. Especially if the roster is already balanced, balanced DLC characters would be wonderful.
Dr. Mario could still be a separate character, as an alternate version of Mario. of course, he would be perfectly fine as a costume for Mario.

Yeah, they should put truly new characters, not just removed ones from previous Smash. in fact, it'd be best if they put all the veterans at the start.

Fixed for the truth. :cool:

:phone:
lolz
 

Starphoenix

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And no. I'm referring to a recent post Chrono made in regards to his overall results (not just one website).
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15085409&postcount=2962
That's very interesting. It helps reinforce many of my own private exploits digging through random Japanese blogs and such. I'm also much more confident in my wild card, dark horse pick.

So is Zael's chances good?

:phone:
Probably not, especially since Shulk is getting "Nintendo RPG" vote.
 

Reyson

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Probably not, especially since Shulk is getting "Nintendo RPG" vote.
There are reasons why Zael doesn't have a big chance but I hardly think Shulk getting the "Nintendo RPG" spot is why. Mario, DK, Samus(before Prime) and Kirby are all platformer titles and they all got in, in the same game.
 

Starphoenix

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There are reasons why Zael doesn't have a big chance but I hardly think Shulk getting the "Nintendo RPG" spot is why. Mario, DK, Samus(before Prime) and Kirby are all platformer titles and they all got in, in the same game.
I was being facetious, but let me explain it this way. Considering Shulk is receiving a decent amount of suggestions in Japan compared to his RPG counterparts (Isaac, Matthew, Zael, entire Magical Starsign series), it lends itself to him being more at focus then the others. Sure, you make a good point with the the platforming trio, but most people don't see sword users or RPG characters in the same light (however ignorant that might be).

Hence "Nintendo RPG".
 

Opossum

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Zael's the guy from The Last Story, right? The one with that cool crossbow?


Another thing that may go against him is ownership. Wasn't it not published by Nintendo in the US or something?
 

FlareHabanero

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Xenoblade is an amazing title in a lot of ways, so it's a justified feeling for why people would want Shulk as opposed to Zeal or Issac.

Gotta praise Monolift Soft.
 

Starphoenix

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Zael's the guy from The Last Story, right? The one with that cool crossbow?

Another thing that may go against him is ownership. Wasn't it not published by Nintendo in the US or something?
Blondie? Yes. As far as the licensing goes, I did not know what it was a year ago, and I still have no freaking clue. I think we'll probably see a couple of tracks on the inevitable Xenoblade stage (ode to Operation Rainfall?), and a few trophies, but that's probably the most.

Xenoblade is an amazing title in a lot of ways, so it's a justified feeling for why people would want Shulk as opposed to Zeal or Issac.

Gotta praise Monolift Soft.
Xenoblade is this generation's Earthbound. Cult classic Nintendo RPG, but with the benefit of also being one of the best JRPGs in the past decade.
 

ChronoBound

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The Donkey Kong Country trilogy has been pulled from the Japanese Virtual Console. So now the DKC trilogy is absent from every region's Virtual Console.

I want to know what the heck is going on. It can't be that they are planning a retail anniversary release because none of the Mario games or Kirby games got pulled from the Wii's VC for their anniversary collections. Heck, Kirby Superstar did not get pulled when they released Kirby Superstar Ultra.

My theory is that Rare still owns part of the rights to the DKC games, and Nintendo originally had a contract with Rare for the games to be on the Wii's Virtual Console over the course of the Wii's lifecycle. The contract expired, and so far Nintendo and Microsoft can't agree to the terms of a new contract.

Keep in mind the Virtual Console likely did not get Diddy Kong Racing due to the fact it has Banjo and Conker, and Donkey Kong 64 due to the fact it has Jetpac.

Still, I really hope a new game is released that has K. Rool and Dixie Kong. The last one was Mario Super Sluggers, and that was all the way back in 2008. Toadette has been gone since Super Sluggers as well.
 

Arcadenik

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Damn. I wish Nintendo never sold Rare. We would have had Donkey Kong 64, Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Jet Force Gemini, Killer Instinct 1+2, Perfect Dark, maybe GoldenEye 007, and Snake Rattle N Roll, and Battletoads on Virtual Console by now. :-(

:phone:
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I dunno. Of course we all wishes for so, but there must've been some reasoning behind all that. Nintendo might've been somehow "negative".
 

Diddy Kong

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Nintendo didn't agree with Rare wanting a little more of their share after the N64 age so I've read, so Rare left and got a contract with Microsoft. I think already half of the people working for the 'old Rare' where already gone though.
 

SmashChu

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That's very interesting. It helps reinforce many of my own private exploits digging through random Japanese blogs and such. I'm also much more confident in my wild card, dark horse pick.
Hmmm. Do tell

Another thing that may go against him is ownership. Wasn't it not published by Nintendo in the US or something?
Yeah, it was published by Xseed in the US. Because of this, there wont be a Last Story character, or any content for that matter. Nintendo doesn't own the series, otherwise. they would have published it. NoA has no choice to publish Xenoblade because it's a first party title.

My theory is that Rare still owns part of the rights to the DKC games, and Nintendo originally had a contract with Rare for the games to be on the Wii's Virtual Console over the course of the Wii's lifecycle. The contract expired, and so far Nintendo and Microsoft can't agree to the terms of a new contract.
That's probably what it is. Rare still has some control over those games because they made them. They do not have control over Donkey Kong content.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I tend to think that Conker's Bad Fur Day is the reason for why Nintendo sold off Rare. After all, it was originally going to be a child-friendly game before it turned all Mature-rated on us.

I guess for some companies, they get higher demand for their games if they're Mature rated. Ironically, Nintendo itself has made its fair share of Mature-rated titles too; Ex.: Eternal Darkness and Geist.
 

SmashChu

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I tend to think that Conker's Bad Fur Day is the reason for why Nintendo sold off Rare. After all, it was originally going to be a child-friendly game before it turned all Mature-rated on us.

I guess for some companies, they get higher demand for their games if they're Mature rated. Ironically, Nintendo itself has made its fair share of Mature-rated titles too; Ex.: Eternal Darkness and Geist.
The reason they were sold is because all of the talent left. Nintendo never owned 50% or more of the company. They owned 49% so that they had some creative control. This is also a reason why you never saw any Rare characters in Smash despite them being popular. Rare offered Nintendo the other 51%, but they refused. Microsoft bought the 51% and Nintendo sold their share. Seeing as how Rare is now, it was a good deal.

Nintendo has no problem with Conker's Bad Fur Day. In an interview, a former rare employee said if Nintendo wasn't happy with it, they wouldn't have published it.
 
D

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If you want to get technical, there is the fact Rare's version of DK was in 64 and Melee, and not Nintendo's classic DK. As well as the Motion Sensor Bomb being from Goldeneye (or from Perfect Dark in Japanese Melee).
 

yani

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My theory is that Rare still owns part of the rights to the DKC games, and Nintendo originally had a contract with Rare for the games to be on the Wii's Virtual Console over the course of the Wii's lifecycle. The contract expired, and so far Nintendo and Microsoft can't agree to the terms of a new contract.

Keep in mind the Virtual Console likely did not get Diddy Kong Racing due to the fact it has Banjo and Conker, and Donkey Kong 64 due to the fact it has Jetpac.
I'm almost positive Rare has to put them up because they were the developers. There's no problem with Microsoft because everything in the game is Nintendo owned (save for Killer Instinct references in DKC2, (and Microsoft was recently denied the Killer Instinct copyright)). I think it might have something to do with renewing the contract for the Wii-U VC, but who knows.

The only confusing thing is that Rare said it's up to Nintendo in regards to DK64, because they could replace Jetpac with Mario's Cement Factory (their exact words) and everything would be good to go.

If you want to get technical, there is the fact Rare's version of DK was in 64 and Melee, and not Nintendo's classic DK. As well as the Motion Sensor Bomb being from Goldeneye (or from Perfect Dark in Japanese Melee).
There were also several Rare character trophies planned according to them. Mr. Seavor voiced Slippy and Peppy. And I believe they made the DK stage's in Melee, but don't quote me on that.
 

ChronoBound

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Still very odd. I find it very strange though that the only appearance K. Rool and Dixie Kong had since Brawl was in one Mario sports spinoff. By comparison, between Melee and Brawl there was a slew of games that they appeared in. However, nearly all the games that K. Rool appeared in were by Paon (King of Swing, Jungle Climber, Bongo Blast) and all the games Dixie Kong appeared in were by Paon, Donkey Konga games, or Mario Sports titles (Baseball GCN, Hoops 3-on-3) as well as Diddy Kong Racing DS.

That they just disappeared off the face of the earth after Super Sluggers is very strange. The only other Rare characters that were used for Returns besides Diddy were Cranky, Rambi, and Squawks. Moreover, Dixie Kong was one of the few characters that was playable in Mario Hoops 3-on-3 but did not return for Mario Sports Mix.

The only chance I see for K. Rool and Dixie Kong to make another game appearance before Smash 4's release would be if Retro manages to get out another DK platformer before then or if Paon is making another (mediocre) DK title for the 3DS. We have another two years until Smash 4 releases (assuming Smash 4 is released Q4 2014), so its definitely feasible for K. Rool and Dixie Kong to appear in another game before Smash 4 releases. Though for the time of Brawl's release to the time of when Sakurai is done figuring out the roster, K. Rool and Dixie Kong have been absent.

I have also been thinking about Mario newcomers. None of the candidates seem like they could be made into particularly interesting fighters (Toad, Bowser Jr., Waluigi, Dr. Mario), and while they are all very recognizable and more well-known than practically all the possible newcomers for Smash 4, they would not be able to stand out much on the roster.

Then you have the fact that Star Fox and F-Zero went into hiatus years before Brawl's release, which would make any newcomers for those series problematic.

I am starting to think Waddle Dee (Bandanna) is looking more and more like an attractive choice for Sakurai's team. He is one of the few characters from a veteran Nintendo franchise that has:
1. Had a prominent role in a game released between Brawl and the beginning of Smash 4's development.
2. Not yet playable in Smash Bros.
3. Already has an aspect to him that would make him easily discernible from the rest of the roster (spear-user).

The spear-moveset from Return to Dream Land already has aspects to it that make it look like it came right out of Smash Bros. The biggest problem though for Waddle Dee though is:
1. Lukewarm demand for the character.
2. Sakurai not wanting to include another Kirby character out of humbleness and/or feeling the Kirby series is already complete now with the addition of Meta Knight and King Dedede.

However, despite these two, Waddle Dee looks better than most characters from veteran Nintendo franchises with the exception of characters from the Mario series, Ridley, and Palutena. That is not much, especially when you exclude Mario characters (most of whom are uninteresting). So Waddle Dee is basically up there with Ridley and Palutena in terms of having a major role in a game released since Brawl.

Think about that. Since Brawl, the only unplayable major veteran series characters that have had important roles in their series since Brawl's release (outside of those from the Mario universe and are not flavors of the month like FE/Pokemon) have been Ridley, Palutena, and Waddle Dee. And we wonder why Sakurai is deciding NOW (and not for Smash 5) that Smash Bros. needs a massive overhaul.

From B-tier series, the only two that are looking pretty are Little Mac and Shulk. Sin & Punishment 2 and Golden Sun 3 would big time flops.

Really, I think the pool for newcomers for Smash 4 looks a lot worse than many people think.
 

FlareHabanero

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This is the reason why I think there will be a bigger focus on establishing new franchises instead of expanding upon existing ones. We already have the big names established for the most part, so maybe resorting to more minor stuff would be unappealing.
 

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PAON-made Donkey Kong games where not bad at all, especially Jungle Climber. It's beastically good. K.Rool was even playable in both King of Swing and Barrel Blast. That's something Rare never even did (besides making Krusha playable in 64 multiplayer and Krunch in Diddy Kong Racing) untill Diddy Kong Pilot, which got cancelled.

Agree that the list of potential newcomers is pretty bad though.
 
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