Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[MasterMushroom]

According to Chrono, they aren't in great numbers.
The Zelda characters with great support and Ghirahim and Toon Zelda.

Its important to note that Skyward Sword was by far the lowest selling 3D Zelda in Japan.

Not saying Ghirahim doesn't have a chance or anything. But who knows? Maybe he'll end up falling short like Zant, Midna, and Vaati did

They are often referred to as being the "Forbidden 7" by the Smash community. There are known reasons as to why some of these characters were dropped. For Dixie Kong, Sakurai mentioned in a Famitsu interview that he originally intended for Diddy & Dixie to be a duo when fighting, however, his team was unable to get team play mechanics to work for them, so Dixie was scrapped. This may have also been the reason that Plusle & Minun was scrapped as well, since they would have utilized a team-based moveset of some sort (however, there are many who also believe that their team play may have been more akin to the Ice Climbers than what Sakurai had planned for Diddy & Dixie). As for Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda, and Toon Sheik, the probable reason as to why they were dropped were possibly Sakurai thinking they did not differentiate themselves enough to be placed on Brawl's roster (as well as for time constraint reasons).

In regards with Toon Zelda; this may have been the case. Regardless; anything can happen between now and the moment he launches his Journal Entries/Poll/Q+A

I already made a joke about Tingle in the General Discussion thread.

despite supporting more Ghirahim's inclusion, I really would like Tingle to join the roster, since I'd love seeing all the ****storm it would cause. the Internet would literally explode and it would be epic beyond belief.

My bad then. And I agree, Tingle's inclusion would cause a massive ****storm. I can actually see the possibility of people almost protesting to not get the game if he's in

 

[MagnesD3]

I have a feeling popularity barely goes into what sakerai thinks about character wise, brawl was lacking a ton of characters that were being pulled for and yet a character like ROB made it in, so I wouldnt just give up on characters in games that are cult hits, heck if half of the assist trophies become characters and we get ridley, k rool and krystal id be happy.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still think that Toon Sheik is just a codename for Tetra. It would make more sense anyway.

And with Tetra's absence it's all the more reason to just discard this idea and make it Impa. Just like the Pokemon Trainer project in Melee got shafted and revived in Brawl.

 

[ChronoBound]

According to Chrono, they aren't in great numbers.
The Zelda characters with great support and Ghirahim and Toon Zelda.

Tingle barely gets mentioned at all. Ghirahim and Toon Zelda don't get much support either, they are not even within the Top 10 that the Japanese support. However, Ghirahim and Toon Zelda at least get some mentions, which is more than I can say about Tingle.

Also, I am increasingly doubting Isaac and Saki. The former has most of his support in the West, but has not gotten the Japanese to notice it (though both Ridley and Little Mac have the fact that they had games in recent years that sold very well in the West, whereas GS3, Isaac's latest appearance, bombed everywhere). I can see both Saki and Isaac being dropped completely, with their sons coming in and filling in their Assist Trophy roles.

The only blonde-haired minor series hero I think stands a real shot at getting in is Shulk. However, I have already mentioned his obstacles.

Isaac really should have gotten in with Brawl (when the Golden Sun series was at its prime in popularity and still fresh in people's heads). As it stands, the GBA Golden Sun games are now a decade old. Starfy I think could have gotten in this time if he had that console appearance like TOSE was thinking about doing (a Wii Starfy would have been feasible for TOSE), but now I don't think a console Starfy can happen. Starfy will definitely return as an Assist Trophy though. I especially don't think another home console Custom Robo will happen. I think the Wii was the last opportunity for a lot of these smaller series to make home console debuts.

Its funny how I can still vividly remember the rumors of a home console Golden Sun back in 2003/2004. Camelot really dropped the ball on that series. I am not sure if the damage can even be repaired. Golden Sun back in the day immensely benefitted from being probably the first big-budget RPG on the Game Boy Advance and having very impressive graphics on the console. Since a lot of Japaanese studios now focus their best efforts onto handhelds, the Golden Sun series is now just another face in the crowd. I am really curious what Camelot's future is. They need to make more than just golf, tennis, and a sporadic RPG here and there. I think its important noting Camelot is a lot smaller now than they were during the GCN/GBA era. I am wondering why the reason a Golden Sun 3 never happened earlier on, was that the plans for it were initially quite ambitious and they were working on it quietly for a number of years, only to find out they did not have the manpower or finances to put out a GS3 on a home console, layoffs then happened, and they massively downsized the scope of GS3 to fit on the Nintendo DS. Sort of like what happened with Mother 3, though the final Mother 3 ended up being really good and still selling well.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Chrono: Quite true in many ways. But really, it might just tell me that Smash Bros runs with so many rules that picks out the most favourable ones towards those rules and even then there's wierd exception being done.

But you know, I just wish they could not try to go for promotion, popularity and relevancy so much. Why can't we just enjoy our characters being in Smash which are notable and with a cult fanbase or significant role in Nintendo's history WITHOUT thinking always about how they would contribute to the sales or the popularity of the series later on. Sonic All Star Racing had so much different characters who were included despite what the hell was their popularity or relevancy. And what's suprising that the roster didn't feel cluttered with bottom-of-the-barrel-characters (expect having Big The Cat).

Yeah, it might mean many Assists in Smash could be playables in Smash (EVEN Waluigi AND Tingle), but we might just agree that Smash 4's roster might be the least hyping in means of having something else than popular fill-ins to the existing franchises, until they finally start to break the rules and actually go to the notably popular but still underplayed series.

 

[ChronoBound]

Frankly, I feel we're scraping the bottom of the barrel this time, though keep in mind I have been around since Smash 64, so I got a much different idea on what characters are unimportant than most people here.

On a sidenote, am I the only one that would prefer to see Dixie Kong over K. Rool? Playing DKC2 and DKC3 made me think of Dixie Kong as more prominent. In reality, K. Rool only showed up at the very way end of each of the DKC games, whereas you were experiencing the game with DK, Diddy, and Dixie the entire way through. I thought playing two entire games with Dixie Kong would lead to more people caring about her.

I feel the same way about Toad versus other Mario characters. Being actually able to play as Toad in games like Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, and New Super Mario Bros. U raised his profile and level of care about the character versus other characters in the Mario franchise not yet playable.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'm supporting Dixie (the only one I can really count on having a totally big shot). About Toad, I'm still afraid he'll be kept as a meatshield special for Peach as to throw around the idea that "he can't fight".

 

[shadowdude]

i think young link should come back but instead of another link have him based off majoras mask and have three different form's like goron and duku mask and his final smash could be fierce deity and that would make him an awsome character.

 

[yani]

On a sidenote, am I the only one that would prefer to see Dixie Kong over K. Rool? Playing DKC2 and DKC3 made me think of Dixie Kong as more prominent. In reality, K. Rool only showed up at the very way end of each of the DKC games, whereas you were experiencing the game with DK, Diddy, and Dixie the entire way through. I thought playing two entire games with Dixie Kong would lead to more people caring about her.

If we're just talking games, I definitely prefer Dixie over K.Rool. I really only love K.Rool because of the cartoon. Hoping we get both though.

 

[---]

I'm netural on Dixie, but mostly because I'm not a DK fan. She does get my sympathy however for all the bashing the K. Rool fanboys give her. Toad I just can't see as a fighter, honestly though, I'm not at all interested in any Mario newcomer, at the most it'd be Waluigi or PM.

 

[FlareHabanero]

People want K. Rool more is because of the character himself being demented yet comedic with a fair share of ham and cheese, and the moveset potential being quite vivid with plenty of options.

Dixie Kong is still a perfectly good choice though.

 

[---]

People want K. Rool more is because of the character himself being demented yet comedic with a fair share of ham and cheese to throw around, and the moveset potential being quite vivid with plenty of options.

Well yeah, but a lot of K. Rool fans I've seen have been rather harsh towards Dixie. Saying that she has no chance at getting in, there's only room for one new DK character, her being planned for Brawl means nothing, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

To put in logical standpoint, Dixie does have a bit going against her. Not impossible, but still.

She was planned for Brawl.....as a partner to Diddy.
She apparently was not good enough to work on her own like Diddy when they split, otherwise, she would have taken priority over at least Toon Link and Wolf.
Whether this would change or not for Smash 4 remains to be seen. I feel it's 50/50.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Odd stuff. I think it'd be more of her being in Smash more likely than hindering her chances. They'd be stupid to think she's just a gimmick for Diddy and then forget all about her because she didn't work at the end.

 

[---]

Meh, I don't care enough about the DK series to want to start an argument especially when all I feel is some sympathy towards a character I could care less about. Also what Horsetail said.

 

[grizby2]

i think its because K rule would be more of a site to behold than it would to see dixie kong. k rule would definately be different from diddy and donkey.

needless to say, a moveset for dixie can still be very well made.

 

[peeup]

A good moveset can be made for most characters. K. Rool would add more to diversity in the lineup, IMO. The list of villains right now is tiny compared to heroes.

 

[grizby2]

A good moveset can be made for most characters. K. Rool would add more to diversity in the lineup, IMO. . .

thats very true. dixie would probably have a different styled moveset that would be reflective of diddy's, since both of them are chimps, ya know?

 

[ChronoBound]

Aside from Dixie Kong and Toad, the only other characters I would say I would like to see in are Ridley, Mega Man, and Little Mac. Of all five, Ridley and Mega Man are the only two that would get me hyped. I also really want to see Mewtwo and Roy brought back. I won't be upset if Toad and Dixie Kong don't show up since those characters have a lot going against them for inclusion (though I feel they are amongst the most deserving characters left to be added).

Overall, my wish list is much smaller this time around than it was for Melee and Brawl.

I am also curious how many people actually like Palutena for the sake of her character, and not just because she is by far the most likely female character to be added.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Chrono: I do? I think I had been supporting Palutena with Tri-Hy since the days when Medusa's support was bit in the considerably high amount. I loved her witty character and supported her bit lightly in that regard... but man, didn't really expect to become so likely though as the Medusa's support diminished down. I can only blame Hades.

I think she'd be pretty awesome, maybe like a defensive version of Dedede meeting Zelda.

 

[ChronoBound]

Palutena does actually seem to have a decent personality as far as female Nintendo characters go, and she is actually important to her franchise to boot. Personally, I do think Palutena is the most deserving female character to be added, and its good that she's getting the support she's getting.

The only other female Nintendo character that I think deserves to be added in besides Palutena is of course Dixie Kong.

However, Palutena is as necessary to Kid Icarus as Ridley is to Metroid, whereas DK could be repped just fine without Dixie Kong. I would even go as far to say that DK would be fine without K. Rool as well.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Might be so. But I think it'd be favourable to let Dixie and/or K.Rool be the new reps so the series wouldn't seriously be going to the way of being "reboot" because of DKC Returns having nothing from the country-series except Cranky and Rambi.

 

[Opossum]

I haven't played the game myself (I plan on it once I get a 3DS), but from the clips I've seen, I really do like Palutena as a character, not just as a token female. Nice personality and all. That, and I've actually always found her more appealing than Medusa, even before Uprising.

/opinion.

 

[SmashChu]

I am also curious how many people actually like Palutena for the sake of her character, and not just because she is by far the most likely female character to be added.

I like her.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

I really like Palutena for her witty personality from what I have seen on videos and pictures. I already bought Kid Icarus Uprising but I don't have 3DS yet. I planned to finish Kid Icarus Uprising by summer 2013 if I have time.

Also I know my logic can be flawed when it come to Medusa/Hade, King K Rool and Ridley, because I want to have more villains that are playable because I really enjoying to play the villains. Sometime, I would be so evil and ruin their days and games with villains.

Villains - Ganondorf, Bowser and King Dedede
Rivals - Metaknight and Wolf

I'm not sure which category Wario would fit in.

 

[ChronoBound]

By necessary, I mean a character that has been within that franchise since the beginning (or near beginning, as in by the second installment) and has continually had important roles within each game in the series, or most of them. Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Ganondorf, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Falco, and Wolf all meet that (though Falco seems to be no more important than the other members of Fox's team). Diddy Kong was basically the face of Rare's contribution to the DK series and he has fared far better than any other Rare created Nintendo character since Rare left Nintendo. Diddy Kong made regular appearances in the Mario spinoffs and continues to make regular appearances.

By comparison, Dixie Kong's post-Rare appearances have been regulated to Paon's mediocre DK games (King of Swing, Jungle Climber, Bongo Blast) and three Mario sports titles (Baseball, Hoops 3-on-3, and Super Sluggers). K. Rool had the same fate, only with appearing in one Mario spinoff (Super Sluggers).

For this reason, K. Rool and Dixie Kong has basically been absent from the minds of many players since the SNES/N64 days. Keep in mind though that each installment of the DKC trilogy was within the Top 10 highest selling SNES games, so they are still in a lot of people's minds despite their long hiatus.

However, as I said, its perfectly plausible Sakurai takes a look at Donkey Kong Country Returns and sees the franchise is fine with just DK and Diddy as its playable characters, and looks for other ways to rep the series (I am think Rambi is going to be an Assist Trophy this time, and DK will probably have a stage from Returns as well as possibly a new DK Arcade stage).

Also I know my logic can be flawed when it come to Medusa/Hade, King K Rool and Ridley, because I want to have more villains that are playable because I really enjoying to play the villains. Sometime, I would be so evil and ruin their days and games with villains.

K. Rool is more comic relief than actually evil. Even his Melee trophy refers to him as something of a bumbler. The only truly evil major Nintendo villains I can think of are Ridley and Ganondorf. Bowser and King Dedede are more jerks than evil. Meta Knight I don't think has done anything shady/evil since Superstar (though some Dark Meta Knight was running around causing trouble in the Amazing Mirror). Wolf is just a mercenary who fights for whoever pays him the most. Of course you got guys like Black Shadow who are evil (though we never actually see him doing anything evil outside of the F-Zero anime), and Porky of Mother who could also probably count as evil.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

K. Rool is more comic relief than actually evil. Even his Melee trophy refers to him as something of a bumbler. The only truly evil major Nintendo villains I can think of are Ridley and Ganondorf. Bowser and King Dedede are more jerks than evil. Meta Knight I don't think has done anything shady/evil since Superstar (though some Dark Meta Knight was running around causing trouble in the Amazing Mirror). Wolf is just a mercenary who fights for whoever pays him the most. Of course you got guys like Black Shadow who are evil (though we never actually see him doing anything evil outside of the F-Zero anime), and Porky of Mother who could also probably count as evil.

Key word: Villain, not evil. Yeah, I agreed with you there.

I never played any kirby games in my life time, and I have been planning to buy Kirby Collection someday, if they are still available at the store. I played Epic Yarn and it was very cute game, but too short and easy.

Sure, I would be fine with Black Shadow. I always pegged Black Shadow to able to absorb Ganondorf's moveset, and let Ganondorf to have their own moveset. I know some people would disagreed on that, but that's just me.

 

[Deleted member]

@ChronoBound: Not true. There was the havoc BS was causing in GX's Story Mode in order to eliminate the competition for the GP so that he could win easily.
Unless being Deathborn's lapdog means this doesn't count, though technically speaking, Deathborn only told him to win the race. He didn't say anything about causing destruction; that was BS's own doing.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

is mewtwo considered as villain in Melee or not?

 

[Frostwraith]

is mewtwo considered as villain in Melee or not?

he sure has an evil laugh and appears alongside Ganondorf and Giga Bowser in Event 51... make that what you will.

 

[Deleted member]

There wasn't a story mode like Brawl that made him evil or not.
However, he was featured with Ganondorf and Giga Bowser in The Showdown, and has an evil laugh.
So in Smash, he could be a villain.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

 

[---]

I like her.

Honestly I don't see how anyone could play Uprising and not end up liking the characters in it. Heck back when it came out there was a huge surge of KIU avatars on this site. Only other Nintendo series that could come close to having as much character as Uprising had would be Fire Emblem. Also Doc Louis.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

he sure has an evil laugh and appears alongside Ganondorf and Giga Bowser in Event 51... make that what you will.

There wasn't a story mode like Brawl that made him evil or not.
However, he was featured with Ganondorf and Giga Bowser in The Showdown, and has an evil laugh.
So in Smash, he could be a villain.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

I can't believe that I forget to mention Mewtwo in the villain lists, and I'm deaf so I didn't know that he had a evil laugh. However, I actually forget all about that event.

 

[ChronoBound]

Its really something to think back to how Brawl added so many characters I really wanted. Really, if Ridley had gotten in Brawl, I would not even be following Smash 4. Melee and Brawl there were so many characters I wanted in. At Melee's release there were some characters that I wanted in that got in, but most of them did not. With Brawl most of the characters I wanted to get in were added, but only a few were not added.

Ridley is the only character I have wanted in prior to Melee that has not gotten in yet.

We still got at least another two years to go before we finally have Smash 4 in ours hands, and another six months before we actually see Smash 4. This has been the longest wait ever for a Smash Bros. game. Brawl was released six years after Melee, and was first unveiled 4.5 years after Melee's release. By comparison, its already been close to five years since Brawl's release and likely be 5.5 years when Smash 4 is finally shown. Smash 4 will also eat the earliest release when Brawl is close to 7 years old.

I am not sure who will want to still wait around another 6-7 years after Smash 4 releases for Smash 5. For me regardless of what happens with the roster, good or bad, I am leaving.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Chrono: Long run like that is pretty honorable actually, so to put an end to it is most suitable. (I tell ya though, it'd break my heart actually if Ridley's not included as playable if looking it from your view. )

I dunno about myself. I might actually do the same, regarding in Smash 4 doesn't really hold to me as representing Nintendo in other means than "a popularity contest" so far. And even then some characters that I think meet all the criterias have some of their own problems to deal with which renders them unlikely just for that.
But seeing how the roster might seem now even more prone to predictable popularities and has no feel of suprise to it anymore, I might not follow Smash after 4. Smash 4 though would serve as a good end for the time I follow it if it had more characters I'd wish to see in it (Toad, Palutena and Saki, Lip and Starfy following as wildcards) and I could leave it without feeling too much bitterness.

 

[Diddy Kong]

King K.Rool always felt like a pipe dream, but now I really hope for it to happen. The Kongs got a honourable appearance in Brawl, but K.Rool was missing from it. Hopefully they keep them in character as they did in Brawl, so K.Rool would only make most sence to be in. I'm not looking forward to a DKCR redesinged DK and Diddy duo with Tikis as Adventure-Mode styled villains. DKC Snes-inspired Brawl style was the best representation of the Kongs yet, so I hope they continue with that. I still say Sakurai could probably make a good DKC game if he wanted. Anyways, am hoping that he keeps with the style. Same said with the StarFox cast.

Anyways, Smash will decide if I get a Wii U or not.

 

[Frostwraith]

the three posts above present some of the reasons that justify the existance of DLC characters. this way, we wouldn't have to wait so long for new characters in Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Online patches for nerfing and buffing characters once in say.. 9 months could work. But don't think DLC characters are likely, maybe alternatives to characters as Dr.Mario and the like could work, but nothing spectacular, and it shouldn't cause the most unique characters should be available on disk I feel. Would never pay for DLC anyway.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Sometimes I thought that Smash 4's life would be prolonged by DLC characters. But I dunno, they'd be definitely broken if not looked well after or tested.

 

[Frostwraith]

Sometimes I thought that Smash 4's life would be prolonged by DLC characters. But I dunno, they'd be definitely broken if not looked well after or tested.

testing and tweaking the characters before releasing them? how about patches?

a lot of games have done this kind of stuff before, so why wouldn't Smash? I'm sure it would give life to the game. as long as the prices are reasonable, I'm fine with this idea.