Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Opossum]

Little Mac really isn't retro anymore with the new game out.

EDIT: !!!

I thought this was the discussion thread. Please delete this, Mods.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Yuui can fix it while Arcadenik wrecks it.

Somebody shoot me.

so yuui is fix it felix while arcadenik is wreck it ralph

 

[8-peacock-8]

Little Mac really isn't retro anymore with the new game out.

EDIT: !!!

I thought this was the discussion thread. Please delete this, Mods.

Same can be said about Pit. Lol (Pit is in the guy's retro section)

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair, Pit WAS a Retro when he was included.

 

[Frostwraith]

I'd say that both Little Mac and Pit are "revived retro"... since they had recently released games after a long hiatus since their last appearences (excluding re-releases, obviously).

 

[8-peacock-8]

Thats what i was thinking.

 

[Reyson]

I'd say that both Little Mac and Pit are "revived retro"... since they had recently released games after a long hiatus since their last appearences (excluding re-releases, obviously).

The difference being that Pit was revived for SSB and Little Mac for his own game. SSBB gave Pit the popularity he needed to be revived as a franchise.

 

[peeup]

this is me being nitpicky so you know realise that it is my opinion. but as far as a prediction roster goes its not that great. IF Kirby got a new rep it would probably be Bandana Dee just cause he does lead in polls and a lot of people want him for some reason. that being said Dyna Blade would make a good boss battle.

Yeah I think other characters are more likely, but I think Dyna Blade would be more fun.

Majora's Mask Link= though a rerelease is plausible it shouldn't be counted on. frankly i still maintain that Toon Link can stay but thats just me.

We've gotten a new incarnation of Link with each game. Toon Link was relevant cause of Phantom Hourglass (kinda). I'm assuming (*** of u and me, i know) Majora's Mask will get re-released.

Melotta= eh theres better Pokemon reps in general. 5th gen included. frankly i didn't remember which one this was till i googled it.

Better option than Zoroark who woud likely end up playing too similar to Lucario or Mewtwo. Unless they're really creative with the illusion ability. No other reps seem likely to me.

Krystal= the only starfox character that would be hard to make a clone of so in that regards im for it. though I agree Starfox doesn't need another rep

They don't have to work terribly hard... just give her generic normal attacks and the same specials as the other space animals. I hate that it'll happen, but it'll most definitely happen.

Duck Hunt Dog= I just don't see it I think he's better suited for an assist trophy.

Again, #fanboy. My personal philosophy is that he's the only character that could match the wtf factor achieved by G&W and ROB.

Hehaichi= sorry im a Pac-Man fan.

I'm so hardcore hoping it isn't Pac-Man. Nothing against him, but I like Heihachi, or any other Namco character, better.

other than that its just stuff like I would choose Bowser Jr over Paper Mario and leave out Golden Sun completely but yeah thats just me.

Bowser Jr over Paper Mario is perfectly plausible. And I was thinking about leaving out Golden Sun. So these two points I'm totally cool with.

 

[3Bismyname]

i really wouldnt consider Pit or Little Mac retro anymore.

 

[peeup]

Pit was retro when brawl came out. So you gotta think of him as retro for the roster's sake.

 

[N3ON]

Better option than Zoroark who woud likely end up playing too similar to Lucario or Mewtwo. Unless they're really creative with the illusion ability. No other reps seem likely to me.

How would Zoroark play similarly to Mewtwo and/or Lucario exactly? Other than possibly having a neutral special charge move (which would most likely function as a radial attack instead of an energy ball). Zoroark would also use claws, biting, dark attacks, and overall being feral, which is quite dissimilar to the other two. Just because Lucario and Zoroark are both bipedal lupines, doesn't mean they would play anything alike.

If anything, one could make that argument for Meloetta. Her psychic attacks could function similar to Mewtwo's and her fighting attacks could function similar to Lucario's. Not that they definitely would, of course, but really Zoroark offers just as much potential as Meloetta does, plus Zoroark is actually a possibility...

Pit was retro when brawl came out. So you gotta think of him as retro for the roster's sake.

For Brawl's roster yeah, but it's entirely possible Sakurai will not longer classify Pit among the other retro characters in SSB4, especially if we get another KI character as well.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Personally, I think the only truly retro candidates that are left are Takamaru, Mach Rider, Balloon Fighter, and MAYBE Little Mac (if he is considered retro).

I don't see the Nintendo Land games as enough to revive Balloon Fight or Takamaru, so I can see them in Smash 4. I think any obscure or random retro at this point is unlikely, given that the previous two mentioned games have been advertised in Nintendo Land (advertised=/= revived)

I was thinking about this for a bit, about Sakurai's supposed comments about the size of the roster. Obviously, it isn't going to be smaller than Brawl, but he makes a specific comment about a 50 character roster. He never necessarily objects to a 50 character roster, simply that they are often unbalanced.

What do you guys think the chance of us getting 10 or more new characters in the game is exactly? I'm all for more characters to be honest. But I think it will be limited to 10 or less this time

 

[ChronoBound]

The only other Generation 5 Pokemon I see competing with Zoroark at this point is Genesect. Keep in mind that when Diamond/Pearl was released it was a little over a year old when Brawl was released. Lucario's movie was also only a few months old when Sakurai started working on the game.

By comparison, Black/White will be at least four years old by the time Smash 4 releases, and Zoroark's movie was 2.5 years old by the time Sakurai began work on Smash 4. Zoroark and Black/White are going to be very old news by the time Smash 4 is released, and Zoroark has not had the same amount of prominence that Lucario did in his generation. I think part of this is that the legendaries were designed a lot better for Black/White and also that the Pokemon Company gave each of those legendaries some time in the sun. Genesect is going to be the Black/White legendary freshest in the mind of the Pokemon fanbase by the time Smash 4 releases.

Though I think there is going to be a Generation 6 Pokemon unveiled for 2014, and possibly even the 2013 movie with Genesect. Its important to note that Brawl skipped over Generation 3 for a playable character, and Generation 2 only had Pichu as its playable character. So a Generation 5 Pokemon is definitely not a guarantee, though at this point the only candidates I see for such a spot are Zoroark and Genesect.

 

[FlareHabanero]

This Genesect thing reminds me of the Victini support roughly a year ago. Though unlike Genesect, it was a tad more justified since Victini is Musuda's favorite Pokemon and all that.

 

[Deleted member]

That is of course, if Genesect's movie DOES have a Gen 6 Pokemon, Chrono.
It's also quite possible that Mewtwo is featured instead (despite being a Gen 1 Pokemon, him being in the movie would be just as hyped as a new Pokemon), given all the Mewtwo related things that have occured since B/W.

 

[ChronoBound]

That is of course, if Genesect's movie DOES have a Gen 6 Pokemon, Chrono.
It's also quite possible that Mewtwo is featured instead (despite being a Gen 1 Pokemon, him being in the movie would be just as hyped as a new Pokemon), given all the Mewtwo related things that have occured since B/W.

Mewtwo being in the movie would basically insure Mewtwo's return. Mewtwo and Genesect also have similar backgrounds. I think Mewtwo being in the movie, would also guarantee that Genesect would be the 5th-generation Pokemon for Smash 4 (if there is even a 5th-generation Pokemon chosen).

Also, on a side note, what fighting games out there have had DLC for playable characters that were not already on the disk. I am trying to assess how feasible it would be for Sakurai's team to do DLC even if they wanted to. However, I think the existence of the 3DS version (both versions will most likely have the same roster) will make it very unlikely that we will see playable character DLC, due to the limited harddrive space for the 3DS.

 

[3Bismyname]

Playstation allstars is doing dlc character that aren't on disk. Other than that I don't really know of any others

 

[8-peacock-8]

Yeah. All-Stars is getting DLC on the PS3 and Vita.

 

[Deleted member]

The only way I could see Genesect getting in is if the Pokemon Company hasn't already decided on a newcomer (and if they have decided to have one by now, it would be Zoroark) and they see Genesect popular enough to warrant inclusion based off the movie's popularity. But even that scenario is hard to imagine.

As of now, it looks like the only plausible options are Mewtwo and Zoroark. They're really the only ones that most people care about and given that the roster was decided in August, I would say it's likely that the Pokemon Company has already decided on the rep, preventing any room for Genesect to gain popularity.

Don't get me wrong, Genesect would be awesome to see, but I don't think he has what it takes to beat Zoroark to the Pokemon newcomer slot.

 

[Deleted member]

"Roster decided in August"? SSU. (Source or Shut Up)

 

[ChronoBound]

"Roster decided in August"? SSU. (Source or Shut Up)

There is no source for it. Its merely just an assumption on SSBF's part.

I think by now most of the spots on the roster have already been decided. However, I do think there is a few more newcomers that Sakurai is still thinking about whether to include, and he is probably still thinking about who should be cut/brought back.

 

[---]

Though I think there is going to be a Generation 6 Pokemon unveiled for 2014, and possibly even the 2013 movie with Genesect.

They could have a Gen 6 Pokemon in Genesect's movie, but it should be almost a given that it'll be a Pokemon like Munchlax instead of a Lucario. Doubt they'll let a new Pokemon upstage Genesect in it's own movie.

With the new anime season announced that deals with N and Team Plasma, it's a good bet that they're working on extending Gen 5 another year. As a side note, it does make some sense to do a Genesect movie during this season given it's relationship to Plasma.

Its important to note that Brawl skipped over Generation 3 for a playable character, and Generation 2 only had Pichu as its playable character. So a Generation 5 Pokemon is definitely not a guarantee, though at this point the only candidates I see for such a spot are Zoroark and Genesect.

There's a lot of truth right here. Pichu wasn't even originally planned either, can't forget that.

 

[N3ON]

I agree with SSBF. I think that Mewtwo and Zoroark are by far the two most likely options from existing Pokemon, with any others only having an outside chance, and only assuming Sakurai hasn't already picked a rep.

I do think however, while perhaps not the most likely situation, a 6th gen Pokemon rep might be more of a possibility than some think. I'd wager that by now Game Freak is working on the 6th gen in some form, and if there is a Lucario/Zoroark equivalent, it would probably be one of the first Pokemon finalized, as it will be used early and extensively in promotion. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch if Game Freak approached Sakurai to include this character (or vice-versa), as around the same time it would be unveiled for Smash (assuming it would be unlockable like Mewtwo/Lucario) it would probably coincide fairly well to when the sixth gen is right in the midst of promotion/release (late 2014/2015). Even if SSB4 releases before the sixth gen is fully revealed, it is probable this Pokemon would already have decent exposure and popularity.

There are alot of ifs, like if Game Freak is far enough in development around now to suggest this character, if the character would work in Smash, and if Sakurai has enough to work with this early. Still, I think the timing would coincide in such a way that it would be doubly beneficial, and something at least one side might look in to. Of course if this happened, it would be very unlikely Zoroark (or any 5th gen) would be included. That said, at this time I still think Zoroark is the more likely character, but I'm not ready to discount the real possibility of a 6th gen.

 

[Deleted member]

Fun fact, the first Pokemon of the 5th Generation made was Fraxure.

So don't try to make connections to the 6th Gen having a Lucario/Zoroark this early.

 

[N3ON]

I'm not saying it would be the first made of the entire generation, just that it'd need to be finalized before many of the others, which means it would get some priority to be among the first finished.

Who knows, it's possible the art/design team at Game Freak starts working on new Pokemon soon after they've finished with the previous gen. For all we know, a good deal of the 6th gen could already be designed in some form. Just speculation though, like I said, it could also be too early to implement a 6th gen in SSB4 in any important position.

 

[ChronoBound]

No one else commented on my question pertaining to DLC character, however, I have this to add.

IF (that's a big if) there are DLC content characters happen for Smash 4 they will mostly consist of characters who were already playable in Smash Bros (characters that were cut from Melee and Brawl). This means that Dr. Mario and Pichu will be more likely to happen than Mario newcomer that did not get in and new series character that did not get in. The only possibility I can see for true newcomers being DLC is if they are used to promote an upcoming release (see Pokemon and maybe Fire Emblem).

The reason I say this is because the pool for possible new characters that are worthy enough to be added will be much lower after Smash 4. Sakurai will likely want to save whatever somewhat notable Nintendo character are left for Smash 5.

Personally, I would buy DLC for Dr. Mario and Pichu, even though I dislike the idea of DLC to begin with.

 

[Frostwraith]

DLC characters aren't a bad idea at all, as long as they're decently planned and the whole idea is executed nicely.

 

[Deleted member]

@GoldenYuiitusin and ChronoBound: I'm referring to when Sakurai said that he was making move sets for new characters. If he's already making new move sets, that means that he has already decided on most, if not all the newcomers.

 

[Arcadenik]

For Brawl's roster yeah, but it's entirely possible Sakurai will not longer classify Pit among the other retro characters in SSB4, especially if we get another KI character as well.

Samus was still grouped with the retro characters (Pit, Ice Climbers, R.O.B.) in Brawl despite the fact she had Metroid Prime 1+2 and Metroid Fusion/Zero Mission after Melee. It probably has to do with the fact they were all NES characters who are the only reps of their respective franchises.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

DLC characters aren't a bad idea at all, as long as they're decently planned and the whole idea is executed nicely.

There's also the idea of special outfits that you could purchase as well.

 

[MagnesD3]

Honestly they should drop lucario for mewtwo and be done with pokemon reps.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Honestly they should drop lucario for mewtwo and be done with pokemon reps.

It is rather doubtful that Pokemon will stop implementing new reps.

 

[MagnesD3]

It is rather doubtful that Pokemon will stop implementing new reps.

True, Im just saying they should, unless another really loved pokemon comes along, After Mewtwo is back and lucario out ill be satisfied with that series only to have them update the pokeballs.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

No one else commented on my question pertaining to DLC character, however, I have this to add.

IF (that's a big if) there are DLC content characters happen for Smash 4 they will mostly consist of characters who were already playable in Smash Bros (characters that were cut from Melee and Brawl). This means that Dr. Mario and Pichu will be more likely to happen than Mario newcomer that did not get in and new series character that did not get in. The only possibility I can see for true newcomers being DLC is if they are used to promote an upcoming release (see Pokemon and maybe Fire Emblem).

Personally, I would buy DLC for Dr. Mario and Pichu, even though I dislike the idea of DLC to begin with.

Dunno if I'd like to buy DLC that are just clones from the last games.

Besides, saving up "newcomers" for next Smash? I don't think he's willing to even make one after Smash 4 for maybe VERY, VERY long time IMO. So if he had any characters that he might think wouldn't have brought people's hype but otherwise he wanted to include them, then I think he'd go for those characters. Or here we're just be seeing Smash Bros 3.5 in means of the roster (having more returning characters and even less newcomers.)

 

[3Bismyname]

im not sold on the whole DLC character thing. the concept kinda irks me for some reason. I'm all for stages and costumes and whatnot cause really i dont have to buy those for any gameplay/advantage reasons. but something about having to buy additional characters just rubs me the wrong way.

True, Im just saying they should, unless another really loved pokemon comes along, After Mewtwo is back and lucario out ill be satisfied with that series only to have them update the pokeballs.

I feel like you just hate Lucario lol

 

[MagnesD3]

im not sold on the whole DLC character thing. the concept kinda irks me for some reason. I'm all for stages and costumes and whatnot cause really i dont have to buy those for any gameplay/advantage reasons. but something about having to buy additional characters just rubs me the wrong way.



I feel like you just hate Lucario lol

Not hate but when you put up a random pokemon (lucario) vs. Mewtwo, its a losing battle.

 

[3Bismyname]

Lucario wasnt really random though. at the time he was very popular and definately the most deserving of his gen. though i agree they messed up a few things like how Lucario should fight and dropping Mewtwo

 

[N3ON]

I'm not against DLC, and though I'd prefer if it wasn't hypothetically made up mostly of returning semi-clones, if it means characters we wouldn't have gotten anyway, I won't complain. It's not like the choice would be either a new unique character or a clone/veteran, it would be a clone/veteran or nobody. Plus it's not like it's Sakurai's style to try and include the minimum amount of content on-disc then make the rest downloadable, if we get character DLC it'll probably be characters that were partially programmed but cut due to time or ones that were previously playable, not ones specifically designated to be DLC.

But I'm going to be buying any and all DLC (well, at least character DLC), so I'm not even going to pretend that I'd have to consider it.

Samus was still grouped with the retro characters (Pit, Ice Climbers, R.O.B.) in Brawl despite the fact she had Metroid Prime 1+2 and Metroid Fusion/Zero Mission after Melee. It probably has to do with the fact they were all NES characters who are the only reps of their respective franchises.

Yeah that's true, but the select screen doesn't really mean too much, Samus definitely isn't a retro, it's because of the second reason you gave. I was mostly referring to how they were grouped for stickers (with many retro stickers affecting only IC, Pit, ROB, and G&W - who wasn't in the "retro row" on the select screen), and just the general consensus that those 4 were considered the retro characters. Plus in Melee the two retros weren't adjacent, but it was still pretty clear they were the retros.

 

[Frostwraith]

True, Im just saying they should, unless another really loved pokemon comes along, After Mewtwo is back and lucario out ill be satisfied with that series only to have them update the pokeballs.

...wouldn't it be better to have both Mewtwo and Lucario?

I mean, having Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pokémon Trainer and Lucario isn't bad for once of Nintendo's best selling games. After all, if you count the spin-offs, the Mario series has 8 characters in Brawl. so 5 Pokémon characters isn't a bad idea at all.

 

[MagnesD3]

...wouldn't it be better to have both Mewtwo and Lucario?

I mean, having Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pokémon Trainer and Lucario isn't bad for once of Nintendo's best selling games. After all, if you count the spin-offs, the Mario series has 8 characters in Brawl. so 5 Pokémon characters isn't a bad idea at all.

Well I suppose Lucario could stay if they re-hauled his move set some, or they could just make him an alt costume for mewtwo.