Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Yuui: Don't forget Amusement Vision. (-l<>l-)

 

[Deleted member]

Horsetail: Pretty much anyone that worked on GX should come back for future installments.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Horsetail: Pretty much anyone that worked on GX should come back for future installments.

Just make sure they fix the balance. GX makes Brawl look perfectly balanced by comparison.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't know anything about balance, as I've never played the game extensively due to sucking horribly at it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I wouldn't know anything about balance, as I've never played the game extensively due to sucking horribly at it.

It's basically Fat Shark>>>Black Bull>>Everyone else, from what I understand.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm, I could've sworn the Rainbow Phoenix was known for being a great vehicle.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Hmm, I could've sworn the Rainbow Phoenix was known for being a great vehicle.

It's not terrible, but I guess it's just overshadowed by awesome.

Here's a tier list I found, if you're interested.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Assault is the only game where Fox fully fights on foot with his regular Laser Gun, to note.(alteast, from what I remember he could select it)

The rest don't, even if they have onfoot segments. I think overall, it's the best option for costumes, since Assault felt almost as close to a fighting game version of Starfox as you can get. Yeah, grasping at straws here, agreed. But eh, I loved that design anyway.

@MasterMushroom: Thanks. I eventually found it, though. And yeah, AC could totally fight since making moves for 'em is easy, you know? It'd just be way too Out of character, which is the only reason they aren't a playable fighter.

Never played Star Fox outside of Adventures and Command (both not very popular games but I liked them nevertheless) but I heard Fox and co fight on foot in 64 multi player. So Fox was already firing lasers before Smash 64 even.

 

[3Bismyname]

Never played Star Fox outside of Adventures and Command (both not very popular games but I liked them nevertheless) but I heard Fox and co fight on foot in 64 multi player. So Fox was already firing lasers before Smash 64 even.

true. but to be fair next to nothing is used as inspiration for his moveset in smash. though really there wasnt much you could use from the looks of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX-pGlStTZw

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Okay, another question; I know that Sakurai talked about some AT's being characters that almost made it as plausible playable characters. What was the link that said that?

@Diddy Kong: False. The on-foot segment had no lasers. They used rocket launchers the entire time. That's why they don't count for lasers. Only Assault did that. Albeit, I don't remember if they used a gun with lasers in there, but I know the other games besides that did not. I haven't gotten far in Assault yet.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, another question; I know that Sakurai talked about some AT's being characters that almost made it as plausible playable characters. What was the link that said that?

I'd like a link to this as well actually.

Anyway, to everyone discussing the origin of Fox's moves. This video might be helpful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g94Pl8vDGCA

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You don't need a video to know 'em.

They're all literally moves from the Arwing, except his Up B. B is lasers from the Arwing. Entrance is obvious. Down B is a double use. Basically, the Silver Rings are used for appearances, but the Barrel Roll actually deflects. Side B is basically the Boost. One could argue Up B is the alternate Boost than the Landmasters use to gain airtime.(which makes a bit of sense) The fire part is probably only because his last weapon was Smart Bombs, which could arguably do Fire damage.

Rest of his moves are simply cause... he's a fox, they're agile, strong, and have speedy attacks. All fit him perfectly. Landmaster Final Smash... yeah, I don't need to explain it.

Also, the Fire Fox is the only one the video doesn't explain. Huh. I'm guessing because it has no realistic origin.

 

[Deleted member]

The only thing we have to go by in terms of ATs "almost being playable fighters" is on the main AT Dojo update.

Assist Trophies allow you to enjoy even more characters who couldn’t quite make it as playable fighters.

This does not necessarily say that some characters almost made it. It sounds more like he's saying that more characters appear as Assists for fanservice despite not being playable.

There are three Assist pages where he mentions something on the order of a playable character, however; Waluigi, Saki, and Gray Fox.
Waluigi's just mentions that because he's an Assist Trophy, he won't be a playable character, but he still appears anyway.
Saki's doesn't actually say the term "playable character", but he mentions that Saki received many requests from fans (most likely in Japan), so he did his best to include him somewhere.
Gray Fox's is more or less Sakurai fangasming at his awesomeness, stating that he "makes you want to play as him".

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think the only assist trophy that literally almost became a playable fighter is Starfy, but mainly due to the infamous Starly trophy being in the Fighter Related section for some odd reason. Then again, Starfy being planned is still up in the air due to no official word out there.

 

[Deleted member]

You don't need a video to know 'em.

They're all literally moves from the Arwing, except his Up B. B is lasers from the Arwing. Entrance is obvious. Down B is a double use. Basically, the Silver Rings are used for appearances, but the Barrel Roll actually deflects. Side B is basically the Boost. One could argue Up B is the alternate Boost than the Landmasters use to gain airtime.(which makes a bit of sense) The fire part is probably only because his last weapon was Smart Bombs, which could arguably do Fire damage.

Rest of his moves are simply cause... he's a fox, they're agile, strong, and have speedy attacks. All fit him perfectly. Landmaster Final Smash... yeah, I don't need to explain it.

Also, the Fire Fox is the only one the video doesn't explain. Huh. I'm guessing because it has no realistic origin.

Yeah, but ti's always nice to have a video spell it out for you. Fox's moves are pretty obvious. The video that blew my mind however, was Marth's. Holy crap, I did not expect half of the things he brought up. Ike's video is also pretty good.

 

[CapnCrocomire]

My SSB4 wish list:
1. Petey Piranha, you can't comprehend the Petey
2. Bowser Jr. (why not?)
3. Geno, we all love him
4. Ridley, can you animate the tail now?
5. Galacta Knight, Similar to Meta Knight.
6. Balloon Fighter, his place was taken
7. Mii, just think about fighting friends and proving you are superior
By wish list I mean adding them, not completely replacing all the others. You just can't do that.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Galacta Knight isn't Meta Knight's clone.

 

[CapnCrocomire]

Galacta Knight isn't Meta Knight's clone.

Sorry, I meant similar in movesets. Your definitely right.

 

[Ove]

It's not terrible, but I guess it's just overshadowed by awesome.

Here's a tier list I found, if you're interested.

That's a stupid tier list. You can basically list the vehicles based on their weight. This is because of their advantage in snaking and nothing else. There's a whole different thing driving them without snaking. In that case, I personally think Rainbow Phoenix is a great machine.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only thing we have to go by in terms of ATs "almost being playable fighters" is on the main AT Dojo update.


This does not necessarily say that some characters almost made it. It sounds more like he's saying that more characters appear as Assists for fanservice despite not being playable.

There are three Assist pages where he mentions something on the order of a playable character, however; Waluigi, Saki, and Gray Fox.
Waluigi's just mentions that because he's an Assist Trophy, he won't be a playable character, but he still appears anyway.
Saki's doesn't actually say the term "playable character", but he mentions that Saki received many requests from fans (most likely in Japan), so he did his best to include him somewhere.
Gray Fox's is more or less Sakurai fangasming at his awesomeness, stating that he "makes you want to play as him".

Ah. Then I clearly misinterpreted what he meant. Thanks.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

That's a stupid tier list. You can basically list the vehicles based on their weight. This is because of their advantage in snaking and nothing else. There's a whole different thing driving them without snaking. In that case, I personally think Rainbow Phoenix is a great machine.

Well, of course it's based on snaking. GX is completely dominated by it(and flying as well).

 

[Deleted member]

Melee's Tier List is stupid.
It's a whole different thing to play as characters without exploiting gameplay quirks as "advanced techniques".

 

[Ove]

Melee's Tier List is stupid.
It's a whole different thing to play as characters without exploiting gameplay quirks as "advanced techniques".

That trolling doesn't make any sense. Melee is a dynamic game with many different ATs that has further developed the game and there isn't a common factor that distinguish the better characters. That tier list is based upon match-ups and the overall diversity of the characters.

If Melee only had a few ATs, where, let's say WD is a heavily affecting factor, and, as a consequence, Luigi is top tier and Bowser bottom tier, the tier list would be stupid.

Snaking is a very important technique in F-Zero GX, but the principle is that the heavier the machine, the better it will snake. This makes a tier list in that game just stupid, because it's pointless.

If you would make a tier list based on the machines without snaking, then you would get a better feel for the game. Then Rainbow Phoenix would be a good machine.

Otherwise, I don't know why you thought that was a good machine...

 

[Robert of Normandy]

If Melee only had a few ATs, where, let's say WD is a heavily affecting factor, and, as a consequence, Luigi is top tier and Bowser bottom tier, the tier list would be stupid.

No it wouldn't. If wavedashing it Melee was so good that characters with good wavedashes were always better than characters with bad ones, then yes, the tier list should reflect that. Snaking in GX is so OP that of course the tier list would be based on who can get the best results by snaking.

Snaking is a very important technique in F-Zero GX, but the principle is that the heavier the machine, the better it will snake. This makes a tier list in that game just stupid, because it's pointless.

Um...what? I don't see what you're trying to argue here.

If you would make a tier list based on the machines without snaking, then you would get a better feel for the game. Then Rainbow Phoenix would be a good machine.

So basically, if you ignore the existence of snaking, then RP is a good machine. Gotcha.

 

[Frostwraith]

Melee's Tier List is stupid.
It's a whole different thing to play as characters without exploiting gameplay quirks as "advanced techniques".

hear hear! "advanced techniques"... more like gameplay exploits/glitches.

that way, we could play Pokémon Red / Blue with a party full of Mewtwos at level 255 like it was totally legit.

I think the only assist trophy that literally almost became a playable fighter is Starfy, but mainly due to the infamous Starly trophy being in the Fighter Related section for some odd reason. Then again, Starfy being planned is still up in the air due to no official word out there.

either an oversight or they really intended to have Starfy as playable and forgot to change the category of the trophies after dumping the idea.

Yeah, but ti's always nice to have a video spell it out for you. Fox's moves are pretty obvious. The video that blew my mind however, was Marth's. Holy crap, I did not expect half of the things he brought up. Ike's video is also pretty good.

CrappyCaptureDevice's videos are really informative (if not speculative). too bad he hasn't posted a video since little more than a year ago... he said that he was too busy IRL to continue the project.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

hear hear! "advanced techniques"... more like gameplay exploits/glitches.

that way, we could play Pokémon Red / Blue with a party full of Mewtwos at level 255 like it was totally legit.

You seem to have missed the point.

 

[Frostwraith]

You seem to have missed the point.

I was being sarcastic in the second statement, I just forgot to mention it.

 

[Ove]

No it wouldn't. If wavedashing it Melee was so good that characters with good wavedashes were always better than characters with bad ones, then yes, the tier list should reflect that. Snaking in GX is so OP that of course the tier list would be based on who can get the best results by snaking.

That's what I am trying to say. Then the tier list would be pointless, since it's just a list of characters ability to wavedash. If there is a consensus that performance is solely dependent on WD, a tier list is unnecessary.

In the case of F-Zero GX, we know that snaking depends on weight, so why bother with a tier list?

So basically, if you ignore the existence of snaking, then RP is a good machine. Gotcha.

I told you so in my initial post. Personally, I enjoyed the game much more without the usage of snaking. Playing the game with max speed (or similar, not max acceleration) has given me an insight of the different machines. A tier list that doesn't take snaking into consideration would be very interesting and would make for some debates, just like any other serious tier list in the fighting genre.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

That's what I am trying to say. Then the tier list would be pointless, since it's just a list of characters ability to wavedash. If there is a consensus that performance is solely dependent on WD, a tier list is unnecessary.

In the case of F-Zero GX, we know that snaking depends on weight, so why bother with a tier list?

So that we can determine which machines are the best at snaking. IMO, the only reason a tier list could be considered "pointless" is because there's a general consensus that Fat Shark completely dominates.

I told you so in my initial post. Personally, I enjoyed the game much more without the usage of snaking. Playing the game with max speed (or similar, not max acceleration) has given me an insight of the different machines. A tier list that doesn't take snaking into consideration would be very interesting and would make for some debates, just like any other serious tier list in the fighting genre.

That was sarcasm. Just because you don't enjoy snaking doesn't mean it doesn't completely dominate the game. There's a reason that mrfixitonline has separate ladders for snaking and non-snaking, and why the snaking records are significantly shorter.

 

[Deleted member]

@Starphoenix: I would take you on your bet in regards to Shulk being revealed in the opening trailer, but I'm going to try to see if I can get this bet going with DustofDryBones in regards to Bayonetta and Pac-Man being in Smash.

I hope he accepts because I would love to see his face when he is wrong about the Bayonetta+Pac-Man pairing.

 

[Deleted member]

Betting anything to Dust would be pointless. He's dreadfully wrong on most if not all his "facts", and he doesn't seem to be the type that would pay up.

 

[Deleted member]

At the very least, if he doesn't pay his due within a week of both deconfirmation (assuming I'm right), it'll show how weak of a backbone he has.

 

[FlareHabanero]

People thinking that Bayonette is getting into Super Smash Bros. are a bunch of twits.

 

[Arcadenik]

Bayonetta? I don't want to see Sarah Palin in Smash unless she is a Mii.

 

[Opossum]

The thing that irks me the most about the Bayonetta "support" is that it can apply to many characters, and even ones far more deserving. Case in point? Maxwell from Scribblenauts.

Has only been on Nintendo systems sans one IOS port of the game, great potential, AND he's getting a new game for the WiiU. He takes whatever Bayonetta had and makes it legitimate.


But that's just my rant for the day. What can I say? I'm a Scribblenauts fan...

Spoiler

Now if only Maxwell stood any chance...even if his chances are better than Bayonnetta's...

 

[3Bismyname]

The thing that irks me the most about the Bayonetta "support" is that it can apply to many characters, and even ones far more deserving. Case in point? Maxwell from Scribblenauts.

Has only been on Nintendo systems sans one IOS port of the game, great potential, AND he's getting a new game for the WiiU. He takes whatever Bayonetta had and makes it legitimate.


But that's just my rant for the day. What can I say? I'm a Scribblenauts fan...

Spoiler

Now if only Maxwell stood any chance...even if his chances are better than Bayonnetta's...

Scribblenauts=Pure Awesomeness. but your right that really anything people say give Bayo a leg up can be applied to so many other characters and actually make sense. and i love that people still try use the whole Sakurai was in Platinum Studios once as an argument. hell he could've been in there checking out Wonderful 101 or just in some meeting we don't know why he was there so they shouldn't act like that means anything.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Bayonetta's pretty sweet series. But let's point out

- Guns

- Partial nudity in her special moves in the series

Taking those out if transferring her to Smash would be quite taking away a lot of her character. Snake got away with having explosive weapons which had to be modeled up to fit him in.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Bayonetta's pretty sweet series. But let's point out

- Guns

- Partial nudity in her special moves in the series

Taking those out if transferring her to Smash would be quite taking away a lot of her character. Snake got away with having explosive weapons which had to be modeled up to fit him in.

The whole partial nudity/fanservice thing has been deconstructed already. But I still don't think Bayonetta is particularily likely or worthy of being in the game.

Maxwell would be friggin' sweet. Loved the original Scribblenauts, even if I wasn't very good at it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also not surprisingly, a lot of people on 4chan love the idea of Bayonetta in Super Smash Bros. and claim it's guaranteed to happen.

Then again the place is filled to the brim with morons, so this isn't surprising. The waifu thing also might explain why Bayonetta has more of a cult there but no where else.

 

[JPW]

partial nudity, lol. I don't know if you ever noticed this but characters like Pokemon and Sonic are like already half naked.

And surely you can't tell me Zero Suit Samus outfit is a little bit too revealing.