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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

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Ben Holt

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We could add one new character to each franchise already in Smash (with few exceptions) and it would not be overrrepreasentation. Which seems to be your silly worry. Think of characters as characters, not as REPS. This is a fighting game, not Nintendo's house of representatives.
Like it or not, series importance does have a lot to do with how many characters each franchise receives.
Whether or not you want to call it "representation" is up to you.
 

FlareHabanero

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We could add one new character to each franchise already in Smash (with few exceptions) and it would not be overrrepreasentation. Which seems to be your silly worry. Think of characters as characters, not as REPS. This is a fighting game, not Nintendo's house of representatives.
I do hate the concept of "reps", because it shovels out shallow reasons that wouldn't make much sense otherwise. We should want a character for their own merits, not whatever cheap label is provided.
 

ChronoBound

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Don't remove Falco or Wolf! The only character in Smash history that deserved removal was Pichu.
Pretty much my feelings as well (though I disagree about any character deserving removal). Though personally, I would not mind Pichu back, and I thought he was the best character to represent Gold/Silver.
 

Swamp Sensei

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How about we have no cuts?

Yeah. I like that.
 

Shorts

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Like it or not, series importance does have a lot to do with how many characters each franchise receives.
Whether or not you want to call it "representation" is up to you.
Wario has pretty much doubled the sales of StarFox, and he was just added, while Fox, Falco, and Wolf have all been planned since Melee.

Like it or not, that's a real old myth that was debunked back like 09.
 

Ben Holt

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How about we have no cuts?

Yeah. I like that.
Some people like cutting for the stupidest reasons. Like Falco being a "clone", yet they forget that he's an iconic part of the StarFox series.
 

ChronoBound

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How about we have no cuts?

Yeah. I like that.
Had Sakurai gotten his way, the only cuts would have been Young Link (of which Toon Link is pretty much the same character) and Pichu.

All the characters in Brawl are well loved and popular. There is no Pichu or Dr. Mario this time. The only way I can see cuts is if there are time constraints, but even then Sakurai now potentially has the safety net option of DLC to implement any veterans that got bumped out via time constraints.
 

Ben Holt

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Wario has pretty much doubled the sales of StarFox, and he was just added, while Fox, Falco, and Wolf have all been planned since Melee.

Like it or not, that's a real old myth that was debunked back like 09.
Wario's popularity came with the WarioWare series, and StarFox was in its prime during the Melee era.
 

lobotheduck21

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For those that have played mother 2 and 3, how different is nesses move pool and lucases

@ben holt, which is why Super Mario Land 3 stars Wario
 

ChronoBound

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Wario's popularity came with the WarioWare series, and StarFox was in its prime during the Melee era.
Shortie talked in the context that we were going to get all three characters in Melee, when pretty much it was either going to be Falco or Wolf. Though it is rumored that Sakurai had been thinking about the idea of a playable Wolf since Smash 64 .
 

Ben Holt

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Had Sakurai gotten his way, the only cuts would have been Young Link (of which Toon Link is pretty much the same character) and Pichu.

All the characters in Brawl are well loved and popular. There is no Pichu or Dr. Mario this time. The only way I can see cuts is if there are time constraints, but even then Sakurai now potentially has the safety net option of DLC to implement any veterans that got bumped out via time constraints.
I liked Dr. Mario. :p
I was fine with Pichu's cut, because Pokemon is becoming over-represented. (Holds up flame shield for people that deny the concept of representation.) And there are more deserving Pokemon reps.
 

Big-Cat

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ChronoBound

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I liked Dr. Mario. :p
I was fine with Pichu's cut, because Pokemon is becoming over-represented. (Holds up flame shield for people that deny the concept of representation.) And there are more deserving Pokemon reps.
There was quite a few people that did like Doc (just check out the Dr. Mario support topic to see how much love Doc gets). He was certainly not as reviled as Pichu, but casuals pretty much thought the only difference he had from regular Mario was him throwing pills.

I am not optimistic about the return of Doc outside of being a costume. However, if DLC characters happen for Smash 4, I think Doc is a prime candidate being DLC.
 

Ben Holt

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May I direct you to my OC challenge?

http://smashboards.com/threads/oc-challenge-thread.335091/

Namco-Bandai is still working under a schedule, and they ain't ArcSys.

Lets see how many characters you can churn out before E3.
Challenging me to do the job of a team that has tons of experience creating new movesets and balancing games in a timely manor hardly proves a point.
There's a reason why Namco-Bandai was chosen as the developer.
 
D

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You don't like the idea of characters being representatives but then how do you explain Toon Link?
Because people wanted someone to replace Young Link that would bring an original moveset?

I would know, I was a Toon Link supporter for Brawl. I expected to get Minish Cap/WW Link with a Hurricane Spin attack, Grappling Hook, Hammer, Gust Jar, Four Sword and Leaf.

Instead I got Cloney Mc.Clonester 3.0, You Can (Not) Avoid It.

Sakurai [laugh]

Yeah, **** you too Sakurai...
 

FlareHabanero

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For those that have played mother 2 and 3, how different is nesses move pool and lucases
Similar, but there are differences. For example, there are certain PK moves that are exclusive to ether. Lucas has Offense Up, Defense Up, Refresh, Counter, and PK Love. Ness has Hypnosis, Paralyze, Teleport, and PK Rockin. However, their other PK moves like Healing, Lifeup, PK Flash, and Shield are shared.

Statistically, both are roughly even for being generally balanced.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Except you're not a video game designer who's working on Super Smash Bros., now are you?
Neither are you, so don't act like your opinion is better than mine k? Why are you so snippy when it comes to game design?

I just think no cuts would make the majority of people happy.
 
D

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Challenging me to do the job of a team that has tons of experience creating new movesets and balancing games in a timely manor hardly proves a point.
There's a reason why Namco-Bandai was chosen as the developer.
You know what dude...

I've beaten this topic to the ground wayyyy too many times. You wanna disagree that's fine. I won't try to convince you otherwise.

But my opnion still stands.

@Swamp

It wouldn't make most people happy because Quantity always comes at the cost of Quality. Especially when you are on a tight schedule.

Those who believe you can have a 50+ character roster with stages, music, story mode, and other extras, on TWO consoles, each one being different from the other, with a perfectly balanced roster by 2014 are downright delusional.

You either cut some characters and add new faces. Or expect around 5-8 new characters and thats it.

The former is the better option for rather obvious reasons.
 

lobotheduck21

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I wouldn't mind changing lucas around to making a status character

otherwise, I wouldn't mind cutting him, getting a character like Isaac who's last chance is this game, and giving lucases buffs to ness
 

Ben Holt

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You know what dude...

I've beaten this topic to the ground wayyyy too many times. You wanna disagree that's fine. I won't try to convince you otherwise.

But my opnion still stands.
I'm not trying to put your opinion down, or even convince you. :laugh:
I'm just supporting my statements to keep the conversation going. :cyclops:
It's not like it's gonna influence Nintendo or Sakurai in the slightest. :p
 

ChronoBound

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The one good thing about E3 rolling around is not only character confirmations, but we will finally learn much more about the focus for Smash 4. The differences between the two versions of the game. Whether there will be cuts. The fate of Sonic and Snake. Whether cut characters will be brought back. Whether there will be DLC. Maybe a ballpark figure for how big we can expect the roster to be.

I expect some of these questions to be answered soon after E3.

Just two more months...
 
D

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I'm not trying to put your opinion down, or even convince you. :laugh:
I'm just supporting my statements to keep the conversation going. :cyclops:
It's not like it's gonna influence Nintendo or Sakurai in the slightest. :p
Alright man. I'm sorry. I should get some sleep... What am I doing still awake?

Thank god it's Sat-.. Sunday...
 

Gingerbread Man

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I will always say yes to cuts. If there's not enough room, a new character should have the chance to dethrone another rep if they are worthy.
 

lobotheduck21

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you know what would be awesome,

nintendo making a survivor horror game and having guillermo del toro creating the monsters
 

Big-Cat

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I wouldn't mind changing lucas around to making a status character

otherwise, I wouldn't mind cutting him, getting a character like Isaac who's last chance is this game, and giving lucases buffs to ness
Here's what I had in mind for the two of them. Lucas is a keepaway character of sorts. His PK Love, functionally the same as his PK Fire, keeps the opponent away and he uses his Offense Up and Shield to help get him in. Offense Up powers up his next Smash attack while his Shield is hyper armor like El Fuerte's EX Dash. Ness is more setup oriented with PK Rockin', funcitonally the same as his PK Fire, keeping the opponent in place along with PSI Paralysis as a great shield killer. He has his Flash working more like a catapult projectile while he moves around carefree with PK Teleport.
 

Ben Holt

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It wouldn't make most people happy because Quantity always comes at the cost of Quality. Especially when you are on a tight schedule.

Those who believe you can have a 50+ character roster with stages, music, story mode, and other extras, on TWO consoles, each one being different from the other, with a perfectly balanced roster by 2014 are downright delusional.

You either cut some characters and add new faces. Or expect around 5-8 new characters and thats it.

The former is the better option for rather obvious reasons.

Wrong. What the casual (the bigger number, therefore the bigger money, therefore the more catered to) audience wants is quantity, which is why Brawl sold any at all. But quality and quantity are in no way mutually exclusive. By that logic, Super Smash Bros. 64 can never be topped.
 

colder_than_ice

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Having zero cuts would leave a lot less room for newcomers than most people on these forums would like to admit.
I don't mean to anger anyone, but I feel cuts are necessary. :(
On a side note, the day is finally over and you guys totaled a whopping 764 posts on this thread for April 6, 2012.
Congratulations!!!! :)
 

Ben Holt

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I will always say yes to cuts. If there's not enough room, a new character should have the chance to dethrone another rep if they are worthy.
Having zero cuts would leave a lot less room for newcomers than most people on these forums would like to admit.
I don't mean to anger anyone, but I feel cuts are necessary. :(
On a side note, the day is finally over and you guys totaled a whopping 756 posts on this thread for April 6, 2012.
Congratulations!!!! :)

What did you say?
 

FlareHabanero

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Wrong. What the casual (the bigger number, therefore the bigger money, therefore the more catered to) audience wants is quantity, which is why Brawl sold any at all. But quality and quantity are in no way mutually exclusive. By that logic, Super Smash Bros. 64 can never be topped.
So what your saying is that we should go with the Action 52 route and shovel in a lot of poorly designed content and sit back while people eat up the ****. I mean, there's no point in having anything good if people will just like the fact there are big numbers in front of them, amirite?
 

Ben Holt

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I will always say yes to cuts. If there's not enough room, a new character should have the chance to dethrone another rep if they are worthy.
The Wii U disk has 25 Gigabytes of storage. There's plenty of room. The 3DS Cart hold 8 Gigabytes, which is plenty after downscaling.
So what your saying is that we should go with the Action 52 route and shovel in a lot of poorly designed content and sit back while people eat up the ****. I mean, there's no point in having anything good if people will just like the fact there is big numbers in front of them, amirite?
What's the most hyped part of any Smash game? Characters! Coincidence? I think not. Why? Because Smash's biggest appeal is playing with your favorite characters against your other favorite characters, and if you cut any (especially since Brawl doesn't have any easily cuttable characters), you just alienated people that liked that character.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Finding a balance between quality and quantity is key. I'm not sure why people are saying it has to be one or the other.

Assume we take the Brawl roster and add ten slots.

45 characters. No too many, but enough.

That's what would satisfy me.
 

Gingerbread Man

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The Wii U disk has 25 Gigabytes of storage. There's plenty of room. The 3DS Cart hold 8 Gigabytes, which is plenty after downscaling.
There aren't too many developers these days that are scaling down content due to disk size. Its not about that. This has to do with development and time management.
 

Ben Holt

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Last post before bed. (Got 6 more weeks til graduation after tomorrow.)
Think about one of, if not the, most wanted "newcomers" to Smash 4, Mewtwo.
He was a cut.
 

FlareHabanero

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Right, but I'm referring to the belief that having more automatically means things are better, when in reality it's a distraction from polish that could of been used to fix the game further. You cannot simply sugar coat everything and get away with it.
 
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