Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Spydr Enzo]

I really think that people over-analyze this far too much. Donkey Kong, Wario, and Yoshi are Mario-related characters, but technically, in Smash, each character has their own franchise (yes, icons matter). And no, that Melee Event Match means absolutely nothing, unless you consider Captain Falcon a Legend of Zelda character.

Yoshi's Island is more closely related to Mario than any of the three, so I guess Yoshi could be considered a Mario character when convenient. Other times, though, Yoshi's Island is it's own thing. Think about stages, trophies, music, etc.

Wario was on the Melee poll as a Mario character... so? That was... a long time ago. Wario has since spawned an even newer series that completely removes itself from Mario in almost every single way, much like Donkey Kong did with Donkey Kong Country. That being said, Wario could also be considered a Mario character when convenient.

Finally, Donkey Kong, the most independent of them all. Donkey Kong is as old as Mario and is able to stand on its own, becoming popular and independent enough to actually see more than one character in Smash unlike Yoshi and Wario. Donkey Kong can also be considered a Mario character, but any other potential character within his series would most definitely NOT be considered a "Mario character."​

Donkey Kong has had plenty of games in his own universe that split him apart from the Mario franchise. Hell, there have been spin-offs of DK spin-offs. Diddy Kong has had his own games and Banjo & Conker originated from Diddy Kong Racing to later have their own games.
Wario and Yoshi are a bit iffy, they have their own spin-offs that stand apart from Mario, but show up now and again in the main Mario games.

I know you're new, but you should definitely consider sticking around here for a while. This place could use some more level-headed, knowledgeable people such as yourself. We're running a bit low on those here!

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I know you're new, but you should definitely consider sticking around here for a while. This place could use some more level-headed, knowledgeable people such as yourself. We're running a bit low on those here!

You could say that about the whole Internet.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

You could say that about the whole Internet.

True... it is a bit rare, sadly. There just aren't enough people that are intelligent and not *******s at the same time.

 

[n88]

@Spydr Enzo

Holy crap, I remember you from forever ago, back in the old SSB4 Thread. Had no idea you were still around. I guess the SSB4 pre-hype is bringing everybody out of the woodwork.

(Really have nothing to say about Smash, except that I fully support the title being changed to Nintendo vs Marvel, and the roster being adjusted to better reflect that. Someday I will be able to make Link fight Taskmaster and Iron Man fight Samus, I swear it. . .)

 

[Spydr Enzo]

@Spydr Enzo

Holy crap, I remember you from forever ago, back in the old SSB4 Thread. Had no idea you were still around. I guess the SSB4 pre-hype is bringing everybody out of the woodwork.

(Really have nothing to say about Smash, except that I fully support the title being changed to Nintendo vs Marvel, and the roster being adjusted to better reflect that. Someday I will be able to make Link fight Taskmaster and Iron Man fight Samus, I swear it. . .)

Woah, whadup! I totally remember you too, back when your avatar was False Zelda (I'm pretty sure that was you...) Ah, the old SSB4 thread... good times. I've never grown out of the SSB4 hype. It's practically the only thing I care about here on Smashboards.

And Iron Man vs. Samus... that's something I'd like to see. You should consider sticking around too, because like I said earlier, this place could use some more level-headed, knowledgeable people!

 

[SmashShadow]

@Spydr Enzo Oh wow! I said almost the exact same thing on pg. 161. Well said.

 

[Reyson]

I know you're new, but you should definitely consider sticking around here for a while. This place could use some more level-headed, knowledgeable people such as yourself. We're running a bit low on those here!

I'm sad that I didn't even know this website existed until a few days ago, so much SSB to talk about and noone to talk about it with. Happy to contribute.

I liked this discussion because the first Nintendo game I played was Wario Land(1994), which already set itself apart from the Mario games with different enemies, mechanics etc. From that moment on he started shifting even further away from the Mario games, only rarely re-appearing as villain.
I get that people consider them Mario characters because they show up in all the Mario Kart/Party/Sports games, but when you look at the Mario platformer games, they haven't been in those for nearly 2 decades.

 

[Deleted member]

And no, that Melee Event Match means absolutely nothing, unless you consider Captain Falcon a Legend of Zelda character.

I've already said why that comparison doesn't work, and I would appreciate it if you didn't just blatantly ignore what I had shown.
The description LITERALLY LABELS the characters in the Event Match as "Mario Stars".

I will post the description again:

It's the Mario Stars: Mario, DK, Yoshi, Peach and Bowser.

The same CANNOT be said for the characters in All-Star Match 2, which only refers to the characters within as "Nintendo's realistic stars".

Nintendo's realistic stars are out in force.

It does not label Samus, Fox, or Captain Falcon as Zelda characters, nor does label Link or Zelda as Metroid, StarFox, or F-Zero characters.

Your point would stand though, if the description for 1 didn't outright label DK as a "Mario Star".

Yoshi's Island is more closely related to Mario than any of the three, so I guess Yoshi could be considered a Mario character when convenient. Other times, though, Yoshi's Island is it's own thing. Think about stages, trophies, music, etc.

Then explain why all stickers that specifically affect the main Mario series characters ALSO affect Yoshi. There are no stickers that affect only Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser.
And no, it's not for "convenience", as there are plenty of stickers for his own series that affect only him. So why have the Mario stickers affect him too?

I will concede though, that it is highly probable that characters like Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, Mona, etc. don't count as Mario characters.
However, DK and Wario do. (as does Yoshi, but that was already established on both sides of the debate)

 

[BKupa666]

Diddy in Melee? I guess it depends on his circumstances...is he an original character or a clone? I figure he'd be more likely to be a starter if he's original, and more likely to be unlockable if he's a clone. He'd be such an awkward DK clone, but in the context of Melee, I definitely wouldn't dismiss the possibility.

Long story short, it's absolutely unprobable that the supporting DKC characters can be classified as Mario newcomers. And at all but the deepest levels of analysis, the Mario series still has just four characters.

 

[n88]

Woah, whadup! I totally remember you too, back when your avatar was False Zelda (I'm pretty sure that was you...) Ah, the old SSB4 thread... good times. I've never grown out of the SSB4 hype. It's practically the only thing I care about here on Smashboards.

And Iron Man vs. Samus... that's something I'd like to see. You should consider sticking around too, because like I said earlier, this place could use some more level-headed, knowledgeable people!

Yeah, that was me. I doubt I'll be around too much; I've got college and such to worry about. But I might pop in from time to time.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I've already said why that comparison doesn't work, and I would appreciate it if you didn't just blatantly ignore what I had shown.

Okay.

The description LITERALLY LABELS the characters in the Event Match as "Mario Stars".

So? I've been well aware of that for a while now. I doubt whoever made the description (Sakurai?) had actually put that much thought into it. They're "Mario Stars" because they are are very obviously Mario-related. They've been featured in Mario games and they have their roots in Mario games. Regardless, they still have their own franchises. This Event Match is an example of grouping the characters together when convenient.

The same CANNOT be said for the characters in All-Star Match 2, which only refers to the characters within as "Nintendo's realistic stars".

Still a grouping of characters. It's nothing more than a grouping of characters. Just so happens that the "Mario Stars" can be conveniently grouped together. Obviously, this is not the case when it comes to stages, music, trophies, etc. (other characters like Diddy, and potentially Dixie and King K. Rool in Donkey Kong's case).

Then explain why all stickers that specifically affect the main Mario series characters ALSO affect Yoshi. There are no stickers that affect only Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser.
And no, it's not for "convenience", as there are plenty of stickers for his own series that affect only him. So why have the Mario stickers affect him too?

Because Yoshi is easily the closest (least-independent) of the Mario-related franchises. It's really quite simple.

I will concede though, that it is highly probable that characters like Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, Mona, etc. don't count as Mario characters.
However, DK and Wario do. (as does Yoshi, but that was already established on both sides of the debate)

Why would anyone ever count Mona as a Mario character?

They can be considered Mario characters. That does not mean that attention is not given to each of their series as well, all three of which can occasionally be considered their own entity. We've seen it before. The bottom line is, this is being analyzed far too deeply. It's really much simpler than you might think.

Yeah, that was me. I doubt I'll be around too much; I've got college and such to worry about. But I might pop in from time to time.

I knew it! Anyway, hope to see you around!

 

[SmashShadow]

Will someone please explain to me how DK is a Mario character if he debuted in his own series and continues to have his own series that was independent of Mario. The DK series and Mario series technically have the same origin. If anything I see them as both having their own series that split off from the games that solely featured Mario and DK( Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr. and Donkey Kong Circus). Afterwards, Donkey Kong just showed up in the spin-offs because of close ties. I could see him being considered one when convenient but other than that I don't see how he be anything more than a convenience character.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Slight topic diversion to the Mario thing, but I did a bit of an experiment regarding the Fire Emblem and Pokemon concerns. This is mostly to satisfy everyone, but I don't exactly approve 100% on this.

For Pokemon, I scrapped the concept of Red controlling three Pokemon and made Charizard independent. With the free space, I was able to keep Lucario, bring back Mewtwo, and add Zoroark while still keeping within 6 characters similar to Brawl.

For Fire Emblem, I simply added Marth, Krom, Ike, and Roy at the same time. Though not very versatile, it can be done. Whether it would be worth it in the long run is a different story though.

Then I simply added onto that and tried to make a comprehensive roster with the two "requirements" intact. Note that some characters are filler to fit in empty gaps, mainly Louie and Pac-man. In total it's technically 54 characters.

 

[SmasherMaster]

I reliezed my roster had some lousy choices so I changed some characters (Krystal, Tom Nook, Tingle, Pokemon Coordinator, Nester, and Maiciah)

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Bowser, Bowser Jr
Donkey Kong, Diddy King, King K Rool, Yoshi, Wario, Mona
Link, Zelda / Sheik, Gannondorf, Toon Link, Toon Zelda, Ghirahim
Samus, Ridley, Pit, Palutena, ROB, Ice Climbers
Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Bandana Waddle Dee, Olimar, Balloon Fighter
Fox, Falco, Wolf, Captain Falcon, Samurai Goroh, Sukapon
Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle / Ivysaur / Chazrizard), Tyranitar, Lucario, Zoroark, Jigglypuff
Marth, Ike, Krom, Ness, Lucas, Little Mac
Mr. Game and Watch, Snake, Sonic, Megama, Pacman

Reasoning
Toad- Toad is the last of the main Mario characters who have not been playable in Smash yet. He is also noted by Sakurai that he put Toad into Peach's moveset.
Bowser Jr- Now, I wanted to add the same amount of newcomers between both Mario and Pokemon. Bowser Jr is te second most recurring villain in the Mario franchise, after his father. Since his debut, he has taken the role as a minor antagonist and appears in most off the spinoffs nowadays.
King K Roil- No series has had 3 protagonists without having an antagonist at the same time. Plus since Dixie is Diddy's sidekick, she feels less of a priority over K Rool.
Mona- Mona is in because since neither Dixie or K Rool have been seen before Brawl, it would be weird having them both in. Now, I was debating over Mona or Kamek. I choose Mona over Kamek because the Yoshi series hasn't had any games or any hints to having any games since before Brawl. If another Yoshi game or a Donkey Kong game with Dixie as a main character came out, I would replace Mona with either of them.
Ghirahim- He is the newest Zelda villian and the main villain of the latest game. Since it is likely that the main Trifocre Trio may keep the Twilgith Princess look because Sheik and Gannondorf are not in Skyword Sword, we can have a character from it. I also wanted to more away from the Trifocre holders, since there are so many great characters in the Zelda series.
Toon Zelda- Sakurai loves having semi-clones. Toon Zelda has a complete different personality from regular Zelda and her moveset can show that. Also, being Toon Link's sidekick may increase her chances since sidekicks are usually put in as a second character in the franchise.
Ridley- Need explanation?
Palutena- See above ^
Bandana Waddle Dee- The most recurring character in the Kirby franchise after the main 3. With his spear, he can fight like very few characters in any Nintendo game can. Also, with each appearance, his role becomes greater. Plus, Sakurai is totally nausea towards his characters. Making all 3 of his character main players in story mode. Making Meta Knight top tier. Giving all 3 of them starter status.

 

[Deleted member]

SmasherMaster, could you please organize your roster? It makes it hard to read what your choices.

n88, good to see you. I'm not around as often either (though still posting), so I can see the position you are in.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

For Pokemon, I scrapped the concept of Red controlling three Pokemon and made Charizard independent. With the free space, I was able to keep Lucario, bring back Mewtwo, and add Zoroark while still keeping within 6 characters similar to Brawl.

You know, this is actually an interesting idea... I don't completely approve, but if it was only tweaked just a bit, I probably would. I'm talking about Squirtle... one of the best-known and most popular Pokemon. If Charizard returns, so should he. Then there is Ivysaur, arguable the least-popular and lesser-knwon of the trio. What if he was cut and Squirtle and Charizard had their own slots? They could still be controlled by a Pokemon Trainer, and rather than their down special switching them out, it would affect stamina in some way (if stamina does return).

I personally feel that eight Pokemon characters is just one too many, and if Ivysaur was cut, it would leave room for Mewtwo, Lucario, AND Zoroark. I know many people don't support cuts (even though it is definitely possible), but I am totally into this idea.

 

[N3ON]

I reliezed my roster had some lousy choices so I changed some characters (Krystal, Tom Nook, Tingle, Pokemon Coordinator, Nester, and Maiciah)

-roster-

Most of the characters you cut are better choices than Tyranitar. Krystal and Tingle (while neither is overly likely) are still much more likely than he is. Hell, even Nook and Micaiah are.

King K Roil- No series has had 3 protagonists without having an antagonist at the same time. Plus since Dixie is Diddy's sidekick, she feels less of a priority over K Rool.

This is another "pattern" that means nothing. Especially since Dixie and Roy were planned for Brawl, which would've given DK and FE three protagonists without a villain. K. Rool really has better points to stand on than this.

Plus you break your own pattern with the FE characters in your roster.

Mona- Mona is in because since neither Dixie or K Rool have been seen before Brawl, it would be weird having them both in.

Why? They are both important to their series and popular, plus more than one character per series has been added in past Smash games, it's quite possible it'll happen again. And they both showed up in Super Sluggers, which was after Brawl.

I also wanted to more away from the Trifocre holders, since there are so many great characters in the Zelda series.
...Toon Zelda

lol irony.

Overall, not a terrible roster, though there are still some odd choices. It's more the logic behind some of the decisions that's questionable. However the inclusion of Tyranitar is a major point against it, especially since you added two new Pokemon characters without Mewtwo.

 

[BKupa666]

Um, he is right in saying that three protagonists have never shown up without an antagonist...at least in the non-RPG series. Dixie being tacked onto Diddy under the same slot wouldn't have violated this rule if it panned out.

 

[Reyson]

For Pokemon, I scrapped the concept of Red controlling three Pokemon and made Charizard independent. With the free space, I was able to keep Lucario, bring back Mewtwo, and add Zoroark while still keeping within 6 characters similar to Brawl.

I'm not a big fan of having Mewtwo, Lucario AND Zoroark in the same roster. With Lucario being Mewtwo's replacement and Zoroark being considered the possible replacement of Lucario, it feels odd if all three of them were in the game. It would be more interesting to atleast cut out one of them and have a completely unique and popular pokémon replace it.
I would prefer that the idea of a Pokémon Trainer be reworked rather than scrapped completely. It seems like a good halfway point between having more pokémon without having half the roster being filled with them. In concept it's also a pretty cool idea to have to master 3 completely different playstyles to be truly good with a character, unfortunately it was executed pretty poorly.

The rest of the roster looks pretty solid though!

 

[Deleted member]

Lucario is not Mewtwo's replacement. -_-
Both were planned for the game and Mewtwo was a case of time restraints.

Also, Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark are not alike to each other so all three are "completely unique" and popular (well, not so much Zoroark on popularity).

EDIT: The only actual replacement was Toon Link as Young Link's replacement. If pra_mai is in fact Plusle & Minun, then they were meant to be Pichu's replacement as well.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I'm not a big fan of having Mewtwo, Lucario AND Zoroark in the same roster. With Lucario being Mewtwo's replacement and Zoroark being considered the possible replacement of Lucario, it feels odd if all three of them were in the game. It would be more interesting to atleast cut out one of them and have a completely unique and popular pokémon replace it.

Careful... referring to Lucario as Mewtwo's "replacement" can really get on some people's nerves (like good ol' GoldenYuiitusin up there). Due to the fact that Mewtwo was also planned for Brawl, it can be argued that Lucario wasn't a replacement. You could also argue that since Lucario had priority over Mewtwo and Mewtwo was cut, he WAS replaced, but people here prefer the former (I think both are reasonable arguments).

I would agree, though. I don't think all three characters will happen. The way I see it, Mewtwo is coming back (seeing as how he is probably the single most popular request at this point) and either Lucario or Zoroark but not both will make the cut (leaning towards Lucario. Zoroark can be a pokeball Pokemon).

I would prefer that the idea of a Pokémon Trainer be reworked rather than scrapped completely. It seems like a good halfway point between having more pokémon without having half the roster being filled with them. In concept it's also a pretty cool idea to have to master 3 completely different playstyles to be truly good with a character, unfortunately it was executed pretty poorly.

With the idea that I proposed, two of the Trainer's Pokemon would get there own slots, cutting Ivysaur, and making room for Zoroark along with Mewtwo and Lucario. It's pretty questionable, though.

 

[shrooby]

Minun and Plusle didn't replace Pichu. We all know that Pokemon Trainer replaced Pichu. Isn't it obvious?

 

[Deleted member]

Doing a little more research on Luigi's Mansion, I wonder if we're going to see a bit of change in the eternal understudy involving the Poltergust.

On one hand, his moveset now doesn't need much tweaking, but on the other, a revamped moveset involving abilities from his series such as the Poltergust, Elemental Medals and the newer Strobe Light would be interesting.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I think it's about time Luigi got to use the Poltergust in Smash. I honestly expected it to happen in Brawl, and it only seems appropriate considering the fact that Mario uses F.L.U.D.D. as a special. Perhaps it could replace his neutral special? I know Luigi is his own character now (not a Mario clone), but replacing his fireball with something more unique to his character could further differentiate him (not that it's really needed, just a small push) from Mario.

Plus it's gotta be in there somewhere, especially now that there are two titles in the series.
(Luigi should also get his own Luigi's Mansion icon with Luigi's Mansion stages, music, and his own section for trophies. )

 

[Deleted member]

Problem with replacing the Fireball is that the properties of the Fireball in comparison to Mario's are meant to invoke the types of fireballs that appear in his debut game, Mario Bros., with the red fireballs (like Mario's) that bounce along the ground, and the green fireballs (like Luigi's) that fly through the air without gravity.

It would feel a little awkward to me replacing it, though, I am not completely opposed to it. I guess Luigi Cyclone can go too, to open up for a newer move such as the Strobe Light (used like Mewtwo's Disable, but disorients controls for temporary blindness? I don't know...).

 

[N3ON]

Um, he is right in saying that three protagonists have never shown up without an antagonist...at least in the non-RPG series. Dixie being tacked onto Diddy under the same slot wouldn't have violated this rule if it panned out.

I never said he was wrong, I said it's not a reliable "pattern" to base roster decisions on. I did jump the gun with Dixie, true, but Roy still proves that it was intended at one point to have three protagonists from the same series (he also didn't specify non-RPG). It's not like Sakurai thinks: well, I've added two protagonists, now I have to add an antagonist. He bases them usually on importance to the series and popularity, in which the antagonist is usually secondary/tertiary/etc.

And I'm not trying to relate this at all to K. Rool's chances (I think he has the best of any newcomer) I'm just saying this "pattern" in general isn't a reliable way to make a roster prediction, as it varies with every series. Other non-pattern factors are much better to go by.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Slight topic diversion to the Mario thing, but I did a bit of an experiment regarding the Fire Emblem and Pokemon concerns. This is mostly to satisfy everyone, but I don't exactly approve 100% on this.

For Pokemon, I scrapped the concept of Red controlling three Pokemon and made Charizard independent. With the free space, I was able to keep Lucario, bring back Mewtwo, and add Zoroark while still keeping within 6 characters similar to Brawl.

For Fire Emblem, I simply added Marth, Krom, Ike, and Roy at the same time. Though not very versatile, it can be done. Whether it would be worth it in the long run is a different story though.

Then I simply added onto that and tried to make a comprehensive roster with the two "requirements" intact. Note that some characters are filler to fit in empty gaps, mainly Louie and Pac-man. In total it's technically 54 characters.

Overall I like the roster. I did like how you managed to slim down the Pokemon section while keeping Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark. While PKMN Trainer could go, it would be a waste since he is such a interesting concept. Plus, I am not too sure about just keeping Charizard. While I like the Pokemon, it feels a little strange have him in it and not the other two after they were playable in Brawl. regardless, if that happen, i would not cry about it.

I personally don't think Pikmin and Fire Emblem deserves a new rep. I don't see how Louie could be considered different from Olimar in any way shape or form in terms of move set. Granted, he would be slightly smaller with less traction I guess. As for Fire Emblem, I feel that we will get either Krom or Roy. Both are popular and likely choices and could go either way.

Besides that, the roster looks good. Oh...wait...Starfy. I would hide the fact that I heavily dislike the character. Chalk it up to personal bias. He is one of the few characters I would not want to see playable in any form. However, I recognize he does have a good history with Nintendo, could be very unique, and has a good sized fan base.

Little sad to not see Saki in there but I can live with that.

I reliezed my roster had some lousy choices so I changed some characters (Krystal, Tom Nook, Tingle, Pokemon Coordinator, Nester, and Maiciah)

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Bowser, Bowser Jr
Donkey Kong, Diddy King, King K Rool, Yoshi, Wario, Mona
Link, Zelda / Sheik, Gannondorf, Toon Link, Toon Zelda, Ghirahim
Samus, Ridley, Pit, Palutena, ROB, Ice Climbers
Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Bandana Waddle Dee, Olimar, Balloon Fighter
Fox, Falco, Wolf, Captain Falcon, Samurai Goroh, Sukapon
Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle / Ivysaur / Chazrizard), Tyranitar, Lucario, Zoroark, Jigglypuff
Marth, Ike, Krom, Ness, Lucas, Little Mac
Mr. Game and Watch, Snake, Sonic, Megama, Pacman

N3ON hit it on the head. I do have a few things to mention though. Wario will not receive a 2nd rep. Period. Tyranitar is a horrible choice. I don't even know the logic that was behind that inclusion. If you are going to take out Mewtwo and add a new Pokemon, at least put in a Pokemon that has a little chance of appearing. While I would love to see Toon Zelda, I doubt we will get more than one new rep that is not a Link variation.

SmasherMaster, you need to understand that equal representation and patterns is not how everything is decided. Yes, people establish patterns where they seem them but they are not necessary concrete patterns that Sakurai abides by. Just because Donkey Kong might receive two new reps does not mean Wario should receive a rep. A roster slot should be given to characters that earn them - not given out to balance out the franchises.

 

[Reyson]

Captain Falcon has been in the game since the original and he is still unlikely to get a second representative, so I doubt Wario would get his earlier. His side-characters are hardly memorable because it's not really Wario's style to share the spotlight.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Anyway with all this speculation it'll be really hard for Sakurai to surprise us... If for example the newcomers will be like 15, I'm sure 10 to 12 of them will be really predictable lol

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Captain Falcon has been in the game since the original and he is still unlikely to get a second representative, so I doubt Wario would get his earlier. His side-characters are hardly memorable because it's not really Wario's style to share the spotlight.

Agreed on Wario, not so much on Captain Falcon. The fact that he has been around for so long without getting a second character helps his case because people WANT to see a second character. That's why Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow (Goroh moreso) are still popular requests despite their seemingly dead series. That coupled with the fact that there are few Nintendo All-Stars left helps Goroh's case, not to mention his exposure within the Smash series makes him familiar among the fan base.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I would like Goroh, but I don't understand why Black Shadow, that homo-Batman, is so much liked lol.
Also we really need a new F-Zero on the WiiU, I'm astonished by the fact that it's not announced yet.

 

[Deleted member]

@Spyder: I respectfully disagree on the Goroh issue.
Mainly because I feel Falcon himself is lucky to be in the series at all.
He was lucky to be a favorite of Sakurai during 64's development, lucky to have a similar build to the characters of Smash's prototype, and lucky to have somewhat of a tokusatsu hero appearance to where being given moves inspired by Kamen Rider doesn't seem so farfetched.

If there was going to be a new character, it would no doubt be Goroh, though.

 

[Reyson]

Anyway with all this speculation it'll be really hard for Sakurai to surprise us... If for example the newcomers will be like 15, I'm sure 10 to 12 of them will be really predictable lol

Considering there were still a lot of surprises in Brawl when a lot of people thought the choices would be obvious, I wouldn't count out surprise appearances just yet. I don't think anyone thought characters like R.O.B. were even in the running or something like Pokémon Trainer or even Olimar was even possible.

Agreed on Wario, not so much on Captain Falcon. The fact that he has been around for so long without getting a second character helps his case because people WANT to see a second character. That's why Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow (Goroh moreso) are still popular requests despite their seemingly dead series. That coupled with the fact that there are few Nintendo All-Stars left helps Goroh's case, not to mention his exposure within the Smash series makes him familiar among the fan base.

I'm not so sure the general appeal for Goroh is as big as it is on this forum. While he's definitely a unique character, I don't think he's famous enough to be in Smash, enless he's really popular in Japan.
I wouldn't mind having him in the game, but if it meant taking a place of other more deserving characters, I'd rather not have him in for the sake of having a second F-Zero character.

If the point of adding characters to the roster is to get more people playing Smash, it seems better to get many different franchises rather than more characters of franchises that are already included. I don't see people buying SSB4 because Samurai Goroh is in it, but I do see people buying it because the main character from their prefered game is in it, like Megaman, Isaac(Golden Sun), Banjo,...(I am aware of the complications of getting some of those characters)

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I'd rather see Goroh or Black Shadow than get another Mario/Zelda/Star Fox character.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I'd rather see Goroh or Black Shadow than get another Mario/Zelda/Star Fox character.

Well it depends. I would rather Deathborn than Black Shadow anyway. I don't like him at all.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well it depends. I would rather Deathborn than Black Shadow anyway. I don't like him at all.

Deathborn's awesome, but Black Shadow edges him out in terms of appearances. Plus, he was the main villain of the anime, which has to count for something.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Deathborn's awesome, but Black Shadow edges him out in terms of appearances. Plus, he was the main villain of the anime, which has to count for something.

I don't remember, was he in F-Zero X too? Anyway, if are the appearances that matter, then Samurai Goroh is hands down the villain who would fit better.

But if I had completely the choice, it would be one between Pico and Zoda. Those guys are my favourite of the franchise.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I don't remember, was he in F-Zero X too? Anyway, if are the appearances that matter, then Samurai Goroh is hands down the villain who would fit better.

But if I had completely the choice, it would be one between Pico and Zoda. Those guys are my favourite of the franchise.

Yes, Black Shadow was in X. As for Goroh, he's more a rival than a villain. And I was more thinking that BS or Deathborn would get in either after or alongside Goroh.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Yes, Black Shadow was in X. As for Goroh, he's more a rival than a villain. And I was more thinking that BS or Deathborn would get in either after or alongside Goroh.

I don't really think we'll get three F-Zero rep UNLESS a new F-Zero game gets announced for the Wii U (it's about time anyway). In that case, a second character would be like obvious and maybe even a third... But anyway, I think Sakurai will remain strict to the first F-Zero. So Falcon, Goroh, Pico and Stewart. And aside from Falcon obviously, of the other three Goroh is the most likely.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I don't really think we'll get three F-Zero rep UNLESS a new F-Zero game gets announced for the Wii U (it's about time anyway). In that case, a second character would be like obvious and maybe even a third... But anyway, I think Sakurai will remain strict to the first F-Zero. So Falcon, Goroh, Pico and Stewart. And aside from Falcon obviously, of the other three Goroh is the most likely.

If Star Fox can get 3 characters, then so can F-Zero. I don't think Stewart or Pico are particularily likely, but that's just me.