Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[SmashShadow]

While I do agree that they are not official statements, they are somewhat necessary so we have something to base our predictions off of or else we just start throwing random things out there. That being said, they need to at least be logical. I don't know how many times people have thrown out "supposed patterns" and neglected the fatal flaw of the pattern. I could say that SSB4 will have only non-reped series characters added in but that's just not gonna happen. It could...but it won't.

 

[jigglover]

Quote for truth.

I want to ring the necks of each and every single patternists in the Smash community.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

I want to ring the necks of each and every single patternists in the Smash community. One particular patternists on GameFAQs made me want to cringe at how he gains respect for his posts, which are filled with fallacious patterns.

My bricks, they came out. ಠ_ಠ

 

[Izzet]

Am I the only one that really wants shadow over anything else? (and those that dont know the sonic series please restrain yourselves from saying "sonic clone", this is extremely not true)

 

[Ember Reaper]

Am I the only one that really wants shadow over anything else? (and those that dont know the sonic series please restrain yourselves from saying "sonic clone", this is extremely not true)

People are gonna say it. yes if he got in he possibly won't be a clone.
We don't need a second Sonic rep. It's still a Nintendo game remember

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Am I the only one that really wants shadow over anything else? (and those that dont know the sonic series please restrain yourselves from saying "sonic clone", this is extremely not true)

You're not the only one. But don't get your hopes up because there is an extremely slim chance of that actually happening.

And while he does have potential to be unique (ANY character does. Toon Link did, Lucas did, everyone did and does), he also has clone potential due to his similarities with Sonic. But that isn't even the problem. Shadow just doesn't have much of a chance at all.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Am I the only one that really wants shadow over anything else? (and those that dont know the sonic series please restrain yourselves from saying "sonic clone", this is extremely not true)

Yes. Yes you are. The Sonic franchise is third party, and most people would rather we got more characters from first/second party series above any character from a third party series.

I personally feel we should get no more than one character per third party franchise, at least for now. It's a Nintendo crossover, not Nintendo vs. Sega or whoever.

 

[SmashShadow]

Am I the only one that really wants shadow over anything else? (and those that dont know the sonic series please restrain yourselves from saying "sonic clone", this is extremely not true)

Tis all I can offer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuPvVctOiGQ&list=FLGEid8MfpewFAzknPI_KRJA&index=3&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHdNzU8IYGk&feature=BFa&list=FLGEid8MfpewFAzknPI_KRJA

 

[SmasherMaster]

Shadow is on the same boat as Daisy. A character has a fanbase has clone potenal and there are better characters than both of them.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Shadow is on the same boat as Daisy. A character has a fanbase has clone potenal and there are better characters than both of them.

Except Shadow is in far worse shape because he is a third party from a company and series that has a rep already

 

[Deleted member]

I'd go on to say that neither Daisy nor Shadow have any shot of getting in, but even if they did, you would be right.

I see us getting Daisy before Sonic gets a second rep. As cool as Tails would be (IMO), it's not going to happen now and probably won't ever happen.

 

[SmashShadow]

Except Shadow is in far worse shape because he is a third party from a company and series that has a rep already

Not so sure he's in "far worse" shape. I mean, before Daisy we'll have Waluigi, Toad, Junior, Paper Mario, and heck, even Birdo is probably more likely. By the time all them get in It'll Smash 8. But yes, he's in a bad position.

 

[Izzet]

Although (not a patternist) but it seems like they try to keep in at least two reps per series if the character did well. So IMO I think seeing one other sonic rep (supposing they dont take out sonic in general) is more possible than some other more popular choices like bowser jr, daisy, toad, etc. If another rep is added, I think most real sonic fans would vote for either knuckles or shadow (and their movesets being almost too easy to think up).

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi is a brilliant addition that would affect game sales if he were to ever get cut (which is never).

It is also unlikely that Yoshi ever gets a second rep.

What also needs to be factor in is Sonic's third-party status and Sakurai's extremely high expectation for third-parties. If we get more third-parties, chances are we're only getting Mega Man because he's the only one that can definitely meet Sakurai's high standards. Anything else is either questionable at best or like a second Sonic rep, has so much against it that the chances are zilch.

We are going to get a fifth Mario newcomer before Sonic gets a second rep, mark my words.

 

[SmashShadow]

Not sure if the Yoshi thing was directed at me but I thought Birdo is a Mario character.

There's no doubt in my mind that we'd get another Mario rep before a second Sonic rep.

 

[Deleted member]

I was mainly providing an example of a well-received character that won't get another character in it's franchise as a playable character.

 

[JPW]

It keeps on surprising me that people doubt Pacman's chances.

It's also surprises me how many people thing Capcom will give us Megaman. Considering they cancelled that Legends game and kind of made fun of him in Streetfighter X Tekken(Though I kind of love his Street Fighter X Tekken look.... makes me laugh)

Yeah Megaman has history he may get in on that. Much like Sonic did. But Pacman has history too, a lot more controversial than you think especially with Nintendo.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

We are going to get a fifth Mario newcomer before Sonic gets a second rep, mark my words.

I am not a betting man but I would be willing to bet on those words. Sonic, unless the universe implodes, will not receive a second rep. Save it for the Olympics series.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

We are going to get a fifth Mario newcomer before Sonic gets a second rep, mark my words.

We already did get a 5th Mairo rep. His name was Doctor Mario.

Considering they cancelled that Legends game and kind of made fun of him in Streetfighter X Tekken(Though I kind of love his Street Fighter X Tekken look.... makes me laugh)

BBA Megaman was actually Inafune's idea, supposudley. He was told they wanted to include Megaman in SFxT, and he said they should go with a comical version rather than the original version.

 

[Deleted member]

Not only that, Capcom Japan has actually said they have no problems with Mega Man in Smash but the decision is Sakurai's as it's his game, not theirs.

Capcom USA really wants Mega Man in Smash.

Hell, even Street Fighter's director feels Mega Man fits more than one of his own characters.

 

[Deleted member]

We already did get a 5th Mairo rep. His name was Doctor Mario.

I'm referring to it getting one in SSB4/later installments.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Megaman is probably the best choice for the next 3rd party character. However, because Namco/Bandai is involved, I can't help but feel like they will get a rep also. It would kind of be a middle finger to them for helping with the game.

Personally, i'd like to see both get one. I'm all for balance in the roster, but the more characters, the better! (As long as they are quality characters of course...)

 

[Deleted member]

If they aren't willing to push for their characters, it'd be their own fault in this case if they don't get one.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Two producers have already said that they would love for Tales characters to appear in Smash 4. So they aren't pushing, however they've stated how they feel about getting a rep.

 

[Deleted member]

Two? I only remember Yoshi-to.
Who was the other?

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Makoto Yoshizumi and Yoshi-to, at least from what i've read.

 

[jigglover]

Yoshi is a brilliant addition that would affect game sales if he were to ever get cut (which is never).

It is also unlikely that Yoshi ever gets a second rep.

What also needs to be factor in is Sonic's third-party status and Sakurai's extremely high expectation for third-parties. If we get more third-parties, chances are we're only getting Mega Man because he's the only one that can definitely meet Sakurai's high standards. Anything else is either questionable at best or like a second Sonic rep, has so much against it that the chances are zilch.

We are going to get a fifth Mario newcomer before Sonic gets a second rep, mark my words.

Green is VERY true, blue is just true and red is dead-set wrong. It should be:
It is also very unlikely Yoshi gets a second rep until smash 6.

 

[Opossum]

Green is VERY true, blue is just true and red is dead-set wrong. It should be:
It is also very unlikely Yoshi gets a second rep until smash 6.

Green is VERY true, blue is just true and red is dead-set wrong. It should be:
It is also very unlikely Yoshi ever gets a second rep.


I'd go into more detail, but I don't feel like it right at this moment.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Jigglover, you're beating a dead horse, still thinking that we'll ever get anything new out of Yoshi's series. Smash 6? Try Smash 66.

Yoshi is basically Mario. Even Miyamoto and his fellow developers consider Yoshi's games as "part of the core Mario series." The only reason Yoshi gets his own franchise in Smash is because it's a spin-off that has differentiated itself enough (like, to the SMALLEST extent) to warrant a new series, but it's still MARIO. Yoshi's Island hasn't even had a new game since pre-Brawl.

Yoshi represents his "series" just fine. SSBF was spot-on when he mentioned the likelihood (or lack thereof) of a second Yoshi rep.

 

[splat]

A question in the same curious style of series representation:

Say, Tingle got in. Would he be a Zelda character, or would he be a Tingle character?

 

[Opossum]

I'd think Zelda, even if he did spin off. I think he'd be more well-known as a Zelda character than as his own series. Plus, his AT is in the Zelda series.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

He'd definitely be a Zelda character.

A pet peeve of mine is when people believe that Paper Mario would actually get his own series...

 

[Deleted member]

I'd think Zelda, even if he did spin off. I think he'd be more well-known as a Zelda character than as his own series. Plus, his AT is in the Zelda series.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he have only a single spin-off prior to Brawl?

He's got like what, 4 spin-offs now? So around Yoshi's level pre-Smash?

Wouldn't surprise me if Tingle had his own icon, after all, he's got plenty of characters from his games that don't appear in the main Zelda series and his series is nothing like the main Zelda series either, just like Wario with WarioWare.
And none of the main Zelda series characters appear in the Tingle games either.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, technically Tingle has 4 games now (though one is just DSiWare), though two were before Brawl.

I'd actually agree with Golden here. I think due to the fact that Tingle's game are pretty much devoid of main Zelda characters and Zelda elements, plus the fact that (for the most part) Tingle has stopped appearing in main Zelda games (not counting the posters/dolls/etc. cameos), it could be very well argued that he would appear as his own series.

Honestly I think it could go either way with Tingle. But if he just returns as an AT, he'll still be part of the Zelda series. And playable Tingle probably won't be happening any time soon anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

Shame about that; I rather liked this concept and would love to see it implemented in Smash.

http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&q=tingle+smash+bros#/d4h2zap

Kind of a mix between Pokemon Trainer's, Ice Climbers', and Olimar's gimmick.

 

[Opossum]

I hadn't realized his series doubled in size. Huh. In that case, it's not too unlikely for him to have his own icon.

 

[yani]

A question in the same curious style of series representation:

Say, Tingle got in. Would he be a Zelda character, or would he be a Tingle character?

Tingle character.

 

[SmasherMaster]

He is like Wario or Donkey Kong, a character gets out of his supporting role and surronds themselve with nobodies (at least at the beginning of their series)

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

So if Tingle did get included in the roster, as a rep for his own series. Would he still count as a newcomer from Zelda or would we get another new rep that's more relevant to the franchise?

I wonder.

 

[Deleted member]

Different icon doesn't mean he magically doesn't count.

Yoshi, Wario, and DK still count as Marioverse characters (I am unsure Diddy does, though given his track record in various sports titles and the fact DK counts, it wouldn't surprise me).