Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Scoliosis Jones]

Different icon doesn't mean he magically doesn't count.

Yoshi, Wario, and DK still count as Marioverse characters (I am unsure Diddy does, though given his track record in various sports titles and the fact DK counts, it wouldn't surprise me).

I agree that they relate to Mario, but do they really count as "Mario" newcomers? Wario and Donkey Kong have their own distinct series, even if they are characters originally from Mario games. I get Yoshi, but I don't really agree with you on the other two.

I mean if its acknowledged by Sakurai, ok then, I agree. But i'm not really sure about that.

 

[Deleted member]

Despite having his own series in Wario Land at the time like how Yoshi had Yoshi's Island, Wario was labeled as a Mario character in Sakurai's pre-Melee poll just like Bowser, Peach, and Toad.

In Melee, there is a series of Event Matches called the "All-Star Matches". The first one's description is "It's the Mario Stars: Mario, DK, Yoshi, Peach and Bowser." (This doesn't have Luigi or Dr. Mario because they are unlockable, so they appear in later All-Star Matches.) This implies that in Sakurai's eyes, DK (and Yoshi) are Mario characters. Having different icons are just because they have series to represent as well that are outside the main Mario series.

The fact all three are heavily featured on Mario merchandise and plenty of Mario spin-offs doesn't help the case of them being "seperated".
I mean, if Luigi were to suddenly get his own icon for the Luigi's Mansion series in Smash 4, does that mean he's no longer a Mario character?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I see what you mean and I agree with you. However, think of this question. If K. Rool gets added, should that take away from a Mario character being added? K. Rool is (for the most part. I think he appeared only once in Mario baseball) a Donkey Kong character, so he really shouldn't be counted as a Marioverse character. (So pretty much the same thing as you said with Diddy)

All I mean is, yes, they can be related to Mario because of the spin-offs, but as a series, they shouldn't necessarily be clumped together besides Yoshi. Screw Yoshi. But yes, I agree with you now. I forgot about those all-star event matches and such.

However I do still think that a different icon matters a teeny bit. If a character has more than a connection to the Mario series and has more games by themself, then I would think they could be somewhat deserving of their own icon. Other than that, I agree completely

 

[Spydr Enzo]

You're both right to an extent, but Golden... the All-Star Event Matches? You don't believe that Sakurai thinks that Captain Falcon is a Legend of Zelda character, do you? Samus is a Star Fox character? Ness and Kirby are Pokemon characters? The All-Star matches are simple groupings of characters, nothing definitive. Also, I don't think Sakurai really recognized Wario as a part of his own series until WarioWare, for some, strange reason. Maybe he just wasn't overly familiar with Wario Land, or he considered it still quite similar to Mario.

I won't argue that they aren't considered Mario-related characters, because obviously, they are, but if you want to get real technical about it, each character does have its own series, whether the series is still basically Mario or not.

That being said, anymore characters that we see from either the Donkey Kong series or the WarioWare/Land series would not be considered "Mario characters." Dixie, King K. Rool, Captain Syrup, and Mona are not Mario characters. Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario are kind of on that thin-line where they can be considered both Mario characters (although not technically) and characters representing their own series. This is also why Yoshi will not get any newcomers ever (unless a new great game with tons of popular and interesting characters is released). It's too closely related to Mario, unlike Wario and Donkey Kong.


So... my point is, Donkey Kong, Wario, and Yoshi can be onsidered "Mario" characters when convenient, but other characters from their series (besides Yoshi) would NOT be considered Mario newcomers. The only other Mario newcomers we can see are from the ACTUAL Super Mario series.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You're both right to an extent, but Golden... the All-Star Event Matches? You don't believe that Sakurai thinks that Captain Falcon is a Legend of Zelda character, do you? Samus is a Star Fox character? Ness and Kirby are Pokemon characters? The All-Star matches are simple groupings of characters, nothing definitive. Also, I don't think Sakurai really recognized Wario as a part of his own series until WarioWare, for some, strange reason. Maybe he just wasn't overly familiar with Wario Land, or he considered it still quite similar to Mario.

I won't argue that they aren't considered Mario-related characters, because obviously, they are, but if you want to get real technical about it, each character does have its own series, whether the series is still basically Mario or not.

That being said, anymore characters that we see from either the Donkey Kong series or the WarioWare/Land series would not be considered "Mario characters." Dixie, King K. Rool, Captain Syrup, and Mona are not Mario characters. Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario are kind of on that thin-line where they can be considered both Mario characters (although not technically) and characters representing their own series. This is also why Yoshi will not get any newcomers ever (unless a new great game with tons of popular and interesting characters is released). It's too closely related to Mario, unlike Wario and Donkey Kong.


So... my point is, Donkey Kong, Wario, and Yoshi can be onsidered "Mario" characters when convenient, but other characters from their series (besides Yoshi) would NOT be considered Mario newcomers. The only other Mario newcomers we can see are from the ACTUAL Super Mario series.

I agree. However I believe that the event match Golden was referring to was one specifically Mario themed, which is why the other characters were included. The others weren't really themed to that extent, but that's just from what I remember.

I agree though, any other characters added to the other series aren't Mario characters. I mean Diddy isn't even a Mario character, and K. Rool or Dixie wouldn't be either. Same goes for WarioWare. I'd like to think that the only Mario characters that would be considered are Jr, Toad, Waluigi, and Paper Mario. ( I still can't get over that if Waluigi appears in the game, he will be in a different series from his partner in crime =/. not that it matters much anyway)

 

[Deleted member]

Spyder, the description for the All-Star Match 1 is "It's the Mario Stars: Mario, DK, Yoshi, Peach and Bowser." It outright labels DK and Yoshi as "Mario Stars".
He doesn't call Captain Falcon a Zelda character, doesn't call Samus a StarFox character, etc.
2's desctiption: "Nintendo's realistic stars are out in force." This has Samus, Link, Zelda, Captain Falcon, and Fox. Realistic is more referencing the fact these characters are not cartoonish like Kirby, Ness, etc.
3's description: "Kirby, Pikachu, Ness, and Ice Climbers want to fight!" He doesn't even refer to them as anything, though the fact they are cartoonish in design, as compared to say, Captain Falcon and Link is probably why they were lumped together.

I'm not doing 4 and Deluxe, as 4 is just the non-cloned unlockable characters and Deluxe is the cloned unlockable fighters.

So again I ask: if Luigi were to get his own icon for the Luigi's Mansion series, would he no longer count as a Mario character?

And also, merchandise for the Mario series features Diddy and Dixie in various products. I'm pretty sure that's Nintendo's way of saying they are within the Mario series and are counted as Mario characters.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I've come to the decision that we are over-analyzing this far too much. I mean honestly, do you think Sakurai himself even puts much thought into this?

Characters from Mario-related series can be considered Mario characters when convenient (actually, I did already say that), as in the case of the first All-Star Match (

Spoiler

which I still believe is a simple grouping of characters like the next two All-Star matches and nothing definitive or worth over-analyzing

). Other times, they are not, as seen in cases such as stages, trophies, and icons for each "series." If Sakurai wants to consider Dixie Kong, K. Rool, Captain Syrup, Mona, and other characters like that "MARIO characters," then that's cool.

Spoiler

But I really doubt he would, as these characters are more closely affiliated with their spin-off series, especially in Captain Syrup's and Mona's case.

Just try not to think too hard about it.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Im here to defend ridley i mean some people say that

ridley is to big to be in ssb4 but i say olimar was tiny in pikmin and they resized HIM to like, around the size of mario so they could make Ridley around the size of hm lets say Bowser? any way we need more villains in the smash bros series.​

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Don't worry, you won't find too many people who argue about Ridley's size anymore. The internet has pretty much gotten over that during the past few years.

 

[FZ64]

Im here to defend ridley i mean some people say that

ridley is to big to be in ssb4 but i say olimar was tiny in pikmin and they resized HIM to like, around the size of mario so they could make Ridley around the size of hm lets say Bowser? any way we need more villains in the smash bros series.​

nope he'll never get in to big

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't it obvious?
Big is just too ridley for Smash.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

My reaction to the Naysayers who say Ridley is too big

 

[SmashShadow]

Big? I say Ridley's too small!

 

[splat]

I don't get the entire argument.

My mom always told me size doesn't matter!

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Big? I say Ridley's too small!

My mom always told me size doesn't matter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNkGbTuGHd0

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ridley is too small in bed. That's why he is always so grumpy towards everyone.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Ridley size argument again? Someone should look up Bowser's phone number...

 

[jigglover]

5 minutes playing galaxy 2 and all will be clear to you. I distinctly remember Bowser screaming, and I quote, I'M HUGE!!!
Wow, that is actually about the size it was when it got bigger, maybe a little bit bigger!

 

[Deleted member]

K. Rool is too big too, you know.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

K. Rool is too big too, you know.

Some friends of mine have actually argued that against him. *facepalm

 

[Spydr Enzo]

K. Rool is too big too, you know.

It's true, here's a source.
JUST LOOK AT THE NOTES AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE THERE'S PROOF

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

it's true, here's a source.
just look at the notes at the bottom of the page there's proof

my god...how did i not think of this before? Obviously k. Rool is too big!!!111!!!!11

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The thing is though, when you compare most of the Mario Super Sluggers models, K. Rool is almost around Bowser's height.

Also, it should be noted that K. Rool is shorter in DKC2 than in its prequel.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

That's true, but I honestly don't think it is actually an issue like it could be with Ridley. Even in Ridley's case, the "too big" argument is really seen anymore, as most people have agreed that it is an ignorant argument.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah, but that's a spin-off M&SGuy. Those are "non-canon" and don't count.

But in all seriousness, DK has a bit of size inconsistancies with near all it's cast.
Even between DK and Diddy.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

K. Rool is too big too, you know.

Ahem.

Edit: Using size as an argument for or against a character being in Smash is just stupid. Very few characters are actually consistant in size between Smash and their own series, so it's not like it couldn't be changed.

 

[jigglover]

Well wasn't Wario bigger than in his later appearances in SMB2?

 

[Gene]

My predictions :





People who wants to make their own rosters without troubles : http://www.mediafire.com/?4d5srerrrrja8ly

Is this Mac friendly?

 

[splat]

But in all seriousness, pretty much all Nintendo series have a bit of size inconsistancies with near all their cast.
Even between DK and Diddy.

Fixed it.
This especially counts for series that use characters that are quite large: Bowser, K. Rool, Ridley, DK, a lot of Pokémon and - correct me if I'm wrong - Dedede.

 

[Deleted member]

Smash is the worst offender, considering Olimar is supposed to be the size of a quarter, Kirby (and Meta Knight) are only 8 inches tall, Pikachu is 1'4", etc. and they all stand near the same height and are quite larger than their established sizes next to other characters with established sizes like Snake and Power Suit Samus being I believe, 6 ft.

 

[jigglover]

Well, I guess it's to make it even. If there was a pint-sized electric mouse and a gigantic boss who would you pick. The gigantic boss would get hit 24/7 whereas the pint-sized electric rat would barely get hit at all. At least Mario doesn't get taller than bowser, so it works well in that respect.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Well wasn't Wario bigger than in his later appearances in SMB2?

SMB2? Wait, i think you mean SML2.

But yeah, he was pretty big.

 

[---]

^^Hey, I actually have that Nintendo Power Issue. That's only part of the comic.

The rest has Mario poking Wario with a needle and shrinking him back down to size he was shown to be in the beginning of the comic. Either way Wario was never really all that big.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I have that entire comic, Super Mario Adventures. I absolutely love it! I still read it every once in a while when I'm feeling nostalgic.

But anyway, yeah, what Tryphen said. Eventually Wario is deflated to his normal size, which is about Mario's size (height). Wario isn't an issue. But then again no one should really be an issue.

 

[SmashShadow]

Wasn't Charizard smaller in Brawl than his Melee Pokeball form?

 

[SmasherMaster]

Size is not an issue. If it was, DK, Bowser, Charizard, Dedede, Olimar, Meta Knight, Kirby, Jigglypuff, Pikachu, Squirtle an possibly Ivysaur wouldn't be in.

And then Toad, Bandana Dee, Ridley, King K Rool, and Medusa would not work

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

The only characters that the size issue applies to are characters such as some of the SE bosses (the purple tank dude), some of the Legendaries like Groudon and Palkia, Doshin the Giant, Navi, Kraid (while he could be downsized, I believe he is usually much larger than Ridley) and other characters that are usually extremely gigantic or extremely small. And most of those characters I listed have a very little chance of becoming playable.

 

[jigglover]

SMB2? Wait, i think you mean SML2.

But yeah, he was pretty big.

SMB2? Wait, i think you mean SML2.
Anyway... I was just thinking of an example when I said that, I didn't realise he had a needle stuck in his *** at the end to deflate him!

 

[JPW]

seeing all this talk about size brings back funny memories:

 

[jigglover]

Is it just me or is that picture not working?