Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[yani]

15 games in the Yoshi series? 4 games in the Mother series? Jigg you really need to stop talking.

Fixed.

10facepalms

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

you still haven't answered my question.

When was the last time Yoshi was the star of his own game?

With 3rd party characters i believe PacMan still has the best chance. Megaman would have a chance too if Capcom believes in him first.

Sonic and Snake will be sticking i find.

My reason for believing both will stick around is because:

Don't you think it's a bit odd for Snake not to show up on PASBR despite his long history with Sony? Instead they went for Raiden? Is there something stopping Sony getting Snake?

As for Sonic same thing. But Sonic games have better success on Nintendo's consoles so it's only logical he'll be into Smash again. And if he was cut i'd imagine there would be a huge uproar in the smash community.

If i remember correctly, the last Yoshi Series game that was released was on the DS.

And my thoughts exactly on the Raiden in Playstation All-Stars argument. I agree completely

 

[Deleted member]

We don't know for sure if Snake himself is not going to be in PSABR or not. It's hinted that he is, though.

As for why Raiden is in it, bear in mind that it's for promotion for his upcoming Metal Gear Rising game. Just like how Dante is in his newer appearance.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

We don't know for sure if Snake himself is not going to be in PSABR or not. It's hinted that he is, though.

As for why Raiden is in it, bear in mind that it's for promotion for his upcoming Metal Gear Rising game. Just like how Dante is in his newer appearance.

This is true. However even if Snake is in PSABR, i don't see the issue with him being in both. As far as Snake being hinted at (i'm assuming this refers to David Hayter's voice being used) this is, as you said "hinting" that he is in the game. So until i see him actually announced, then to me he may only be a background appearance. I kind of hope he doesn't show up, because it would be hilarious

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8jIrxsWkos

I prefer to have a video output for my Rosters. Here is my latest one.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I like that you disabled the like/dislike option and the reason for it. No sarcasm intended.

 

[Opossum]

Well, of course. Youtube's full of less than intelligent people who rate things based on baseless things. It would make the roster look bad if a bunch of trolls randomly disliked it.

Anyway, the roster itself is pretty good. More on the conservative side, it seems. My only hangup is Lloyd. Care to explain why you chose him? I mean, I know that Capcom is working on it, but do they really need a character? Just asking.

If I were to make any changes, I'd replace Lloyd with Toad, Goroh, or Palutena, personally. Just my opinion. Overall, a very solid rooster.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Capcom is not working on the game nor do they own any of the Tales of characters.

 

[Opossum]

Crap. Meant Namco. *Facepalm*

 

[Deleted member]

lol "solid rooster" XD

Anyways, why Lloyd.
Hmm...mainly for organization purposes, but the main reason that even though it's ultimately up to Sakurai, Yoshi-to (no, I'm not trying to censor bypass, it's that the censors go after the man's name), being the other main developer for Smash 4, he is likely to try to convince Sakurai to include a Tales character (he said he wanted one) in the mix. Why Lloyd specifically? Due to being essentially the most marketable of the characters to appear on Nintendo systems.

Now, if my Roster REALLY reflected how I predict it's going to go down, neither Lloyd nor Mega Man would be on it, due to how pessimistic I feel about any 3rd Party other than Snake and Sonic.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I second this solid rooster. It almost exactly resembles my own rooster, besides Krom and Lloyd. I understand your reasoning for Lloyd, I just don't think it'll happen that way. I'd also replace Krom with Roy, seeing as how Roy will also be appearing in the next Fire Emblem game (despite not being the main Lord), and because he is also seemingly much more popular than Krom.

 

[Deleted member]

Trust me, the Roy vs. Krom issue has been eating away at me for quite some time, and was the hardest decision to make.
If anything, I'm still not fully decided which I find more likely, it's too close of a call.

I mean, on one hand, Roy was planned for Brawl and is popular. On the other, Krom is shaping up to be really popular himself. Roy being cloned from Marth in his initial Smash appearance could possibly deter Sakurai from including him along with the other "cloned" Forbidden 7 members like Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda/Sheik, and Plusle & Minun (if it was them). On the other hand, Krom could just as easily be an Ike 2.0. Then again, both can be unique as well, due to Roy's fencing style and his flame sword in general, and Krom is very flashy with his moves unlike either Marth or Ike.

It's a vicious cycle of tug of war. O_o

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I don't think Sakurai is put off by the idea of clones as much as Smash fans are. Sure, most clone characters aren't totally unique, but that hasn't stopped their additions on the roster. Plus, Brawl has shown that characters can share very similar movesets and still play very differently. It has also shown that clone characters can be revamped and still keep the same or similar moves (like Falco and Ganondorf, for example). Roy could be given the same treatment, further differentiating him from Marth. Sakurai doesn't seem to have a problem with that.

Currently, Roy seems to be more popular, but Krom could indeed see a spike in popularity soon. Don't forget, though, that the game's roster is most likely currently being decided, if it hasn't already been decided, so I doubt that a spike in popularity would help Krom much, unless the spike was so big it could not be ignored. Just mah two cents on the subject and why I would pick Roy over Krom.

 

[Deleted member]

Granted that is true, but I do have this feeling though that other than Ganondorf (and as of Brawl, Falco), the Melee clones may have been felt as disposable in the long run.
However, Roy's overall popularity just may put him among the ranks of Ganondorf and Falco.

Young Link and Pichu were definitely felt as disposable, given that they were both meant to be replaced (or simply cut in Pichu's case if pra_mai isn't Plusle & Minun). Dr. Mario and Roy were somewhat low on priority in Brawl's roster in comparison to Ganondorf and Falco as well. I mean yes, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo were also low in priority compared to them and the rest of the veteran cast, but they too were above Roy and Dr. Mario at the very least.

That's not to say I have a problem with clones; I don't. Hell, if Dr. Mario came back and was just as clonish as he was in Melee, I would have no problem; I rather liked how he was. It's just that, with characters not being a prime focus this time around, I feel as though Sakurai wouldn't add any newer clones, and what focus is given on newer characters is making them unique.
Which, while not too terribly problematic with Roy, given that he has a different fighting style within his own game, the fact he was a clone before may hinder him, as Sakurai is shown to not want to completely alienate people that played as characters in prior Smashes, if Ganondorf and Falco are any indication.

As for popularity, Krom has shown a great deal of it so far, given that he's only 2nd place in popularity within his own game (Well, he's listed as 1st, but Lucina beats him out in votes if both her votes as herself and her votes as

Spoiler

"Marth"

are put together), and within that magazine Sakurai tweeted in character popularity for characters in recent games, Krom outranks both Ike and Marth, with Roy not even appearing in the Top 20, despite appearing in the game as DLC like Marth and Ike (although Ike at that point was not DLC but appeared in DLC chapters). Instead, we get another Awakening character on the Top 20, Gaia.
This may not mean all that much in the long run, but it's still shows that Krom already has some popularity, and it can only rise from this point on since Awakening has yet to reach American shores.

I don't mean to prattle on about pointless stuff, but this is just why I'm so conflicted on which is more likely in the long run.

 

[Opossum]

Here I was all caught up with typing Namco as Capcom, and I go and say solid rooster...

I, too, have been conflicted with the Roy vs Krom thing. I'm pretty sure we won't have both, and that Ike and Marth are safer bets than both, but I currently went with Roy. I think Sakurai would go for the one that is more popular with fans, and especially Smash fans, in Roy's case. Krom, to my knowledge, still has an "expected but not necessarily wanted" feel.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I see what you're saying, Golden, but I have to agree with Opossum. Krom may be quite popular, mostly due to the hype surrounding his debut, but Roy seems to have more popularity within the Smash community seeing as how he is more familiar among Smash fans for having appeared in the series once before. And I don't know about that "levery newcomer will be unique" thing... it's the ideal situation, but we really don't know whether or not that will actually happen. It's a bit hard to tell.

Of course, I'm not denying that Krom has growing popularity and is becoming a more familiar face recently. I just think that with Roy's current popularity and the fact that he has been in Smash before, he has a better chance. Honestly though, I wouldn't be surprised to see Krom myself. It's almost a toss-up between the two. So I really don't have much of a problem with his support, because it's totally reasonable.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I sort of redid my roster. I added a few more characters just for the heck of it. This is a roster that I feel personally good about and wouldn't mind seeing as the end product. I took out Snake because I honestly don't see him returning. I am even on the fence with Sonic. 3rd party veterans are an extremely unknown area since we have never had a 3rd party veteran reappear or cut. That being said, Sonic and Snake are a gray area. I did add Sonic though because of his history in Smash and Nintendo and his fan demand.

Bowser Jr: He is a popular Mario character, has enough fan demand, was a trophy before, and one of the frontrunners for the Mario newcomers. He has also have a surge of appearances in flagship Mario titles as of late.

King K. Rool - Doesn't need to be said.

Skyward Sword Link - This is obvious since it is Link's most recent reincarnation.

Twilight Princess Zelda - Cause Skyward Sword Zelda looks like a meek milkmaid.

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf - Am I the only one who though he sounded like Gonzo when he laughed in his final boss match?

Saki - Saki is a popular character that was given Assist trophy status despite Sakurai mentioning how well he would fit into Smash. He is the face of Sin and Punishment and, because of his AT status, he the most recognized S&P character.

Ridley - The fact I have to add Ridley as a newcomer for three times in a roll infuriates me beyond reason.

Takamaru - Easily one of the most likely Retro characters. A resurgence in popularity, appeared in recent games such as Captain Raindow and that hack n slash samurai game, and the soon to be released Nintendoland.

Little Mac - A retro character that was given a reboot outside of Smash. That is quite the honor. He was also an AT in Brawl which helps his chances a little. A easily recognizable character and the face of Punch-Out!! along with King Hippo.

Mach Rider - The only character I am 50/50 on. I would love to see him playable but he is not extremely likely. It depends if Sakurai feels the need for two retros. However, mach Rider deserves a revitalization.

Samurai Goroh - Slightly more popular than Black Shadow, assist trophy in Brawl, and one of the more easily recognizable character in the F-Zero franchise. I see him having the edge of of BB.

Isaac - Another character I am iffy on. While he would make an EXCELLENT addition to Smash, his games never sold too well in Japan and, like Saki, is relatively unknown. However, I would rate his chances higher than Mach Rider.

Zoroark - If a 6th generation does not come out in time for the finalization of the roster for SSB4, then I think Zoroark will get it. While generation representation isn't important, she/he is currently the face of 5th Gen and arguably one of the most recognizable. However, he/she does not have anywhere near the amount of demand that Lucario did.

Mewtwo - He did not deserve to be cut and humiliated like that. He will get his revenge.

Palutena - Kid Icarus would recieve a 2nd rep, I am 99% sure. Sakurai rebooted it and, while he is humble, I can see him adding a KI rep. Palutena, IMO, is the most likely choice. While Medusa and Hades would be cooler, she has a much larger role than those two in KI.

Krom - Krom can be switched out with Roy actually. However, I personally prefer Krom since he is a new face and has a direct lineage to Marth. That, IMO, would make some pretty interesting match ups.

Mii - I personally think Mii will be added. Sakurai seems to not like them but I can see Nintendo barging in and telling Sakurai to add them in. I think it would be pretty interesting but, as usual, we will get characters with ****s on their faces.

Mega Man - Easily the most wanted 3rd party character after Sonic. No reason for him to not get in.

Pac Man - With Namco working on the title, his chances have increased by a little. While not a lock, he is easily the most likely Namco rep out there due to his history in gaming.

That's my most current roster. Sorry for skipping on roster details. I am running on 3 hours of sleep and I am exhausted.

 

[Deleted member]

@Opossum and Spydr: I see what you guys mean. I mean, I would prefer having Roy back or have Roy AND Krom instead of Krom alone. I just feel a little conflicted (so I might as well make two versions of my Roster; Roy Edition and Krom Edition ).

@Venus: Honestly, I think people have the wrong ideas on 3rd Parties with how you describe Pac-Man's chances.
Pac-Man having the most history would make him the most ideal choice, but it's not necessarily the most likely. Think of Snake; Simon Belmont made more sense and would have been an ideal choice for a Konami character, but we got Snake instead.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

As we know though, Sakurai is buddy buddy with Metal Gear Solid's creator. Of course Snake would be chosen from other Konami characters because of this working relationship. I feel Pac Man is the most likely Namco character. Is he a lock? No. But he is still very likely compared to other Namco characters. At this point of time, he is the most ideal and likely Pac Man character since we don't know too much about SSB4 yet. We don't even know if Namco or 3rd party characters will appear again.

Being that, there are other Namco characters that could get in. For example, the director of the Tales series commenting on how he would like to see a Tales character get into Smash. And while Tekken has been downplayed by Namco as a viable option for Smash - I don't think they should not be considered. While I wouldn't mind seeing Lloyd, Kos-Mos, or Jin playable - when crafting a prediction roster; Pac Man is a safe choice. He isn't too extreme, he has a decent amount of fan demand, and he a common pick for a Namco rep. I chose him out of safety. I would have picked Simon over Snake before the Brawl trailer release. Who knows.

 

[Deleted member]

Again, ideal =/= most likely. The two do not go hand in hand.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Again, ideal =/= most likely. The two do not go hand in hand.

This coming from you is kind of ironic.

 

[JPW]

We don't know for sure if Snake himself is not going to be in PSABR or not. It's hinted that he is, though.

As for why Raiden is in it, bear in mind that it's for promotion for his upcoming Metal Gear Rising game. Just like how Dante is in his newer appearance.

to be honest i don't really follow Metal Gear Solid. I want to but i feel it's too late, and i have too many other series to get acquainted with before MGS.

My opinion Snake is overpowered, i'd much prefer he got switched out for Simon Belmont.
Wolf would end up with Grenades and Mines as part of his moveset.
And Falco should get a rocket launcher added to his. At least that would mix up the Starfox Clones a bit.

as for the Roy vs Krom. Like i said i've never been a fan of Roy and like any other non japanese person i have yet to play the new FE. So i don't know what to think of Krom.
All i care about is Marth staying which is very likely. If they drop Ike is guess i could live with it and find a new no.3. I kind of don't see them dropping Ike though.

I don't see any cuts happening all i see is an expansion. If i had to think of it the only 2 cuts i see is Lucario getting cut, and Lucas getting cut for a different Mother character.

I'm actually starting to feel Krystal, Shulk, Zoroark and Krom could end up as assists.
I'm hoping Shulk does make the roster but he's only had one game(awesome game) to back him up, and it's recent now but think 3 years from now. Monolith are also doing a new game with a new ip. No one knows what it is yet.

I still also think Veteran characters should be DLC. That way each person can choose whether they want them back or not.

 

[SmashShadow]

Why would Lucas get replaced by another Mother character. He's the only other protagonist that doesn't look almost exactly like the others. What rep do you think would replace him because it definitely wouldn't be Claus replacing his brother?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

@JPW if he is overpowered, then it would make more sense for him to be nerfed or modified rather than completely removed. And because Hideo Kojima personally asked for him to be included, he either isn't going anywhere, or there isn't going to be a different Konami rep in his place if he is removed.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Snake was already a consideration ever since Melee, but due to Melee's development time schedule he had to wait his turn, same for Sonic. Getting rid of Snake because of a reason such as "being too overpowered" would be really unjustified.

But i do see one reason for Snake to maybe not be included this time, and that's because of the possibility of him starring in PS AllStars, now i'm not saying it's impossible for him to be playable in both. But it's just a gut feeling i have. I do hope Snake is included in SSB4 though, because i have negative interest in PS AllStars.

Spoiler

Dante's new design makes babies cry.

 

[FlareHabanero]

All of the characters were confirmed for Sony Smash Bros, 20 to be exact.

Snake is not one of them.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

All of the characters were confirmed for Sony Smash Bros, 20 to be exact.

None of which is Snake.

Doesn't account for the possibility of DLC characters. There's also a few people speculating that this may just be starter characters, and that there may be more characters that are hidden.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

PS AllStars will most likely have unlockables, and with Raiden being included Snake isn't too obscure to be considered as a DLC character. Though Raiden's biggest purpose of being included is for promotion.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

An article on IGN says that PSASBR will ship with 20 characters on the roster. Snake is not one of those characters.

However this doesn't mean he won't be DLC. But i'm not sure he will appear even still.

 

[jigglover]

Snake has wanted to get in since melee, but couldn't, come brawl he's in, now, for the next game... Sound familiar? Yep, Snake is the only character to follow mewtwo's foot-steps right now, mewtwo considered for 64, snake considered for melee, mewtwo in melee, snake in brawl, mewtwo not in brawl, snake...? Just something I just noticed, I hope it doesn't happen though, since my plan is to main/second Snake if he gets in.

 

[N3ON]

Snake has wanted to get in since melee, but couldn't, come brawl he's in, now, for the next game... Sound familiar? Yep, Snake is the only character to follow mewtwo's foot-steps right now, mewtwo considered for 64, snake considered for melee, mewtwo in melee, snake in brawl, mewtwo not in brawl, snake...? Just something I just noticed, I hope it doesn't happen though, since my plan is to main/second Snake if he gets in.

That's a pretty arbitrary rule to decide Snake is a part of. He could just as easily follow the pattern of Bowser: planned for one game, included in the next, and the one after that as well.

Plus Lucas (and possibly Dedede) was at one point planned for Melee as well, Snake wouldn't be "the only" character that could technically follow Mewtwo's footsteps.

 

[splat]

Snake has wanted to get in since melee, but couldn't, come brawl he's in, now, for the next game... Sound familiar? Yep, Snake is the only character to follow mewtwo's foot-steps right now, mewtwo considered for 64, snake considered for melee, mewtwo in melee, snake in brawl, mewtwo not in brawl, snake...? Just something I just noticed, I hope it doesn't happen though, since my plan is to main/second Snake if he gets in.

Don't try to incorporate patterns when we have Sakurai at the head of development.

Bowser and Peach were planned for 64 as well (among others), making it to Melee and Brawl.
edit: hijacked by N3ON.

-

On the topic of PSASBR:
Sid Sherman tweeted the following: "We have revealed the full launch lineup of characters". Heck, it could even be a clumsy wording for: "this is the starting roster". In all honesty, I don't care much for that game, nor do I think Sakurai will change his mind based on that game, but I think people read into these kind of statements way too much.

 

[Opossum]

Snake has wanted to get in since melee, but couldn't, come brawl he's in, now, for the next game... Sound familiar? Yep, Snake is the only character to follow mewtwo's foot-steps right now, mewtwo considered for 64, snake considered for melee, mewtwo in melee, snake in brawl, mewtwo not in brawl, snake...? Just something I just noticed, I hope it doesn't happen though, since my plan is to main/second Snake if he gets in.

Please tell me you're not serious...

 

[jigglover]

It was just something that I realised, but, oh well...

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Snake has wanted to get in since melee, but couldn't, come brawl he's in, now, for the next game... Sound familiar? Yep, Snake is the only character to follow mewtwo's foot-steps right now, mewtwo considered for 64, snake considered for melee, mewtwo in melee, snake in brawl, mewtwo not in brawl, snake...? Just something I just noticed, I hope it doesn't happen though, since my plan is to main/second Snake if he gets in.

You realize that Bowser and Dedede were also planned for 64 and are now on the roster? Bowser wasn't cut. By your logic, Snake is more likely to stay than be cut. By the same logic, Dedede also has a good chance of being cut for that reason..... And that has absolutely no chance of happening.

As I've said many times to many people before, don't try to look for patterns. There have only been three games... very few patterns actually exist, if any.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I would add that comparing a 3rd party character to a 1st party character is kind of like apples and oranges to begin with, and as Spydr said, patterns hardly mean anything considering there have only been 3 games.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Patterns can easily be broken, anyway

It's not like patterns are always intentional

 

[Deleted member]

As I've said many times to many people before, don't try to look for patterns. There have only been three games... very few patterns actually exist, if any.

Quote for truth.

I want to ring the necks of each and every single patternists in the Smash community. One particular patternists on GameFAQs made me want to cringe at how he gains respect for his posts, which are filled with fallacious patterns.

 

[N3ON]

Off the top of my head, the only patterns I can think of that probably won't change and carry a little bit of validity are the inclusion of a new retro character each time (IC, Pit, character Sakurai has hinted towards reviving), and a stage to represent the "main" Mario game(s) of the past console (Princess Peach's Castle, Delfino Plaza, inevitable Galaxy stage), with both of these "patterns" starting with Melee.

For the most part I'd agree with the people above in that patterns are firstly, almost always coincidental and not intended, secondly, very possible to being broken, and thirdly, a terrible way to justify something. Even the two above may very well be broken in the future.

Spoiler

Don't wring my neck SSBF

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

While patterns can be drawn from comparing the previous Smash Bros. games, it does not mean they are necessary official patterns. Yes, since Melee, we have seen two different younger versions of Link. Despite that, it is not 100% certain that we will get the same result in Smash 4.

As well, patterns are completely throw out of the window when dealing with Snake and Sonic. This is an unexplored territory since the idea of 3rd party character inclusion into Smash is fairly new. We don't know if they are only Brawl characters, if one of them gets in and one doesn't get in, or what not.