Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Hayabusa's dang awesome. Though I dunno if I'd want him. On the other hand can't see him in.

 

[ChronoBound]

I don't see how Bayo's guns are "realistic" in any way. Also, you have Sony All Stars to look at, which has already featured REAL guns.

Personally I never found Snake using CQC in Smash as a big deal. I think the whole violence aspect is moot, since it IS after all a FIGHTING game.

Those gun designs would definitely pass as realistic. Possess a functional gun looking that in real life, and people would be just an intimidated despite the pink colors and extra spikes.

 

[Deleted member]

You lack any sense of introspection, don't you? I have debunked you all day long, but you just continue to let your cognitive dissonance lead you by your nose.

Everyone in this thread is debunking you, yet you continue to say, "nuh uh I am right. *references more anime trash"

Look, I don't see her getting in either, but for a different reason. Simply because she only recently landed on a Nintendo console and still isn't completely linked to the company. Perhaps in the future, but as it stands now, I don't see it.

You never "debunked me, you simply contradicted me. None of the arguments were strong or wholesome. They all went "well I wouldn't really see Nintendo doing that." But failed to look at other aspects of the picture. If you truly had disproved or debunked me, I would have admitted my concession, but you never did.

FE8 IS agreed to have implicit incest, Japan and the rest of the world commonly have sexuality in games. The Guns Bayonetta wields are NOT realistic and CAN be implemented in a fighting game style. Guns HAVE been seen in other games that have similar ratings to Smash Bros. Her sexuality is not that big a deal and can be toned down a bit to make it more appropriate, especially in the NA version. I really don't see where your stance is.

EDIT:

Those gun designs would definitely pass as realistic. Possess a functional gun looking that in real life, and people would be just an intimidated despite the pink colors and extra spikes.

Gahahahahaha, OK, that's it. That's where I drop the ball and say "You Win."

I have better things to do.

Good day to you sir.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Soon as we started talking about Tecmo Koei, Kasumi just got confirmed to be in Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge. Oh the irony. XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UOjXBhD12fA

 

[ChronoBound]

FE8 IS agreed to have implicit incest, Japan and the rest of the world commonly has sexuality in games. The Guns Bayonetta wields are NOT realistic and CAN be implemented in a fighting game style. Guns HAVE been seen in other games that have similar ratings to Smash Bros. Her sexuality is not that big a deal and can be toned down a bit to make it more appropriate, especially in the NA version. I really don't see where your stance is.

Why do you keep insisting on FE8 having implicit incest, when I said it does not? Go to SerenesForest and bring up a topic about the "implicit incest" you believe to be there, and watch as you get reply after reply laughing at you.

Also, most people reading this topic would agree that those guns are realistic enough that they would be unable to be included in Smash Bros. You do know pink semi-automatics exist right?

You are also ignoring how everyone in this topic is telling you that Bayonetta's sexuality would be too much for a NINTENDO game, especially for one that is as family-orientated as Smash Bros.

You are ignoring what I and everyone else in this topic is saying to you because you refuse to see anything you say or write as wrong.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Super Smash Bros. is kinda rated T in name only. The only reason why it got that rating was because of the fact that beating each other up is the main premise of the series. Hell, the series prevents guns from being used and censors the DK rap.

 

[Arcadenik]

Let's just put in Duck Hunt Dog. His NES Zapper isn't a realistic gun.

 

[ChronoBound]

Gahahahahaha, OK, that's it. That's where I drop the ball and say "You Win."

I have better things to do.

Good day to you sir.

Hopefully, one of those better things you have to do is examining your hubris. You have really bizarre arguments when it comes to female characters in general.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Let's just put in Duck Hunt Dog. His NES Zapper isn't a realistic gun.

Let's give Sherrif One Piece - style guns instead of cartoony blasters.

 

[Deleted member]

Why do you keep insisting on FE8 having implicit incest, when I said it does not? Go to SerenesForest and bring up a topic about the "implicit incest" you believe to be there, and watch as you get reply after reply laughing at you.

Also, most people reading this topic would agree that those guns are realistic enough that they would be unable to be included in Smash Bros. You do know pink semi-automatics exist right?

You are also ignoring how everyone in this topic is telling you that Bayonetta's sexuality would be too much for a NINTENDO game, especially for one that is as family-orientated as Smash Bros.

You are ignoring what I and everyone else in this topic is saying to you because you refuse to see anything you say or write as wrong.

Look, that's as far as I go with this topic. I think it's laughable that the outlandish design of a witch's MAGICAL guns pass off as "too realistic" for you, what? Do you want them to fire ribbons and chocolate? Is that tame enough for Smash Bros? I mean, when you said that it became clear to me that there simply is no reasoning with you.

Super Smash Bros. is kinda rated T in name only. The only reason why it got that rating was because of the fact that beating each other up is the main premise of the series. Hell, the series prevents guns from being used and censors the DK rap.

I suppose, but Nintendo along with the gaming industry is always adapting. There is not clear cut standard on what is crossing the line and what isn't. There is this big grey area in terms of violence and sexuality in media, and it is constantly changing with the times. As of right now, Nintendo games are starting to get more Mature and Violent. Also, Melee had a much more serious art-style than Brawl. Characters like Bayo, Travis, Snake, and Simon, all fit in much better with THAT art style. Nintendo also had a lot of strong implicit sexual themes in past games so it really isn't anything that far-fetched. Zelda 2 for example, Link would rest at a lady's house to recover his health. There are a ton of implied sexual themes in Nintendo titles that people just seem to overlook because of Nintendo's "kid-friendly" image with the Wii.

I've already given explicit example of how Japanese 12 and 13 year olds are exposed to VERY strong sexual themes in Manga. I don't see how having a censored witch with guns is taking it too far. I'm sure things are different for the States, but that's more along the lines of what NOA needs to take care of rather than what NOJ needs to worry about.

 

[ChronoBound]

Look, that's as far as I go with this topic. I think it's laughable that the outlandish design of a witch's MAGICAL guns pass off as "too realistic" for you, what? Do you want them to fire ribbons and chocolate? Is that tame enough for Smash Bros? I mean, when you said that it became cr to me that there simply is no reasoning with you.lea

Nintendo also had a lot of strong implicit sexual themes in past games so it really isn't anything that far-fetched. Zelda 2 for example, Link would rest at a lady's house to recover his health.

Its not just me, its everyone else in this topic. There has been no one else in this topic that has felt Bayonetta's guns would be appropriate for Smash Bros. On the contrary, there is absolutely no reasoning with you. Everyone else in this topic is agreeing with me, while you are by yourself. I am thinking its you that has to do the re-evaluating in regards to your opinions.

On the thing about Zelda II, you are reading way too deeply into that. Link also has old ladies heal him in Zelda II too. It seems a re-occurring trope with you is a pre-occupation with sexual innuendo where it does not exist, and sexuality in general.

Also, I thought you had better things to do than to continue having this debate with me.

 

[Arcadenik]

It is clear that there is a love triangle between Zelda, Link, and Impa in Zelda II.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

*gets popcorn* This is the debate of AGES.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

More like it was...

 

[BKupa666]

Didn't they have a real snafu redesigning Fox's blaster to ensure it didn't look too realistic?

 

[Hoots]

*gets popcorn* This is the debate of AGES.

One about Bayonetta? Is this how far we've fallen. I'm shocked that anyone would be so passionate about Bayonetta that they would actually think that she would be a good fit with Smash. You can say whatever you want about Nintendo history, but when it comes to Smash, it's not difficult for a rational individual to conclude that Bayonetta, Travis, Tekken Characters, et al would not fit at all.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Tekken actually would fit surprisingly well considering that the games themselves are pretty goofy.

 

[ChronoBound]

Tekken actually would fit surprisingly well considering that the games themselves are pretty goofy.

A character from Tekken could probably be much more feasible to fit in than Travis Touchdown or Bayonetta. However, it would still be as awkward as Snake's inclusion was.

 

[FlareHabanero]

At this point, third party characters are kinda awkward in general.

Even Sonic kinda stuck out due to the glorified 90's coolness often associated with the series, something that Nintendo rarely trail's on.

 

[Arcadenik]

I am fine with third party characters not getting in SSB4. That includes Snake, Sonic, and even Mega Man. If third party characters get in, cool, but they gotta be important to their series and to their company and to Nintendo.

 

[Aipom]

I am fine with third party characters not getting in SSB4. That includes Snake, Sonic, and even Mega Man. If third party characters get in, cool, but they gotta be important to their series and to their company and to Nintendo.

That's how i feel about it. I mean, my personal preference is that there will be no third party characters, but if there are some, I'd hope that only some of the most important and prominent figures make the cut (and even then, only 3-4 total max!)

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Sakamoto really did a lot to ruin the Metroid franchise. He was the one that came up with Zero Suit Samus, and he was the guy behind Other M. He was the director of all the 2D Metroids except for Metroid II, but I think the rest of the development team kept Sakamoto's bad ideas in check up until Other M. Zero Mission and Fusion was setting the stage for Other M though (Fusion's yappy Samus, and Zero Mission's Zero Suit Samus).

The Metroid Prime trilogy handled Samus's character the best.

Its really a shame what became of Samus. She is my favorite video game hero of all time, and she has become yet another cliched female hero with lots of overt sex appeal (Samus has always had sex appeal, but it was always limited to just the ending of Metroid if you managed to beat the game quickly).

ZSS I didn't mind during Zero Mission, having always liked those kind of stealth parts like when you're temporarily controlling her before getting the full suit back. Didn't like how ZSS was more sexed up in Brawl though (let alone that she got in as playable over Ridley), and how she became much more mainstream since then. To be fair though, Samus used to have much skimpier outfits than ZSS in endings of Metroid games that came out before Zero Mission, but at least those only stayed in said endings. Now if only ZSS had stayed in just Zero Mission for the most part, which could have been the case if she wasn't in Brawl which skyrocketed her popularity.

And Samus didn't really have any character in the Prime trilogy. Most of what you said against Sakamoto is just speculation as well. So he was behind what ended up being one flop of a game for the franchise, okay. He still did much more good for the series than the bad he did with Other M when he directed all the sidescrollers that weren't Metroid II, and then some.

And personally, I thought Fusion Samus had some of the best lines seen by the character. If a Metroid V stays consistent with Samus's personality from Fusion (and doesn't go back to the one she had in Other M or whatnot), then I won't be disappointed.

 

[Arcadenik]

I didn't mind seeing Zero Suit Samus getting in over Ridley in Brawl. At the time Brawl was announced, I didn't think Ridley would get in Smash because he was just a recurring boss, not THE villain of the whole series like Bowser is to the Mario series and Ganondorf is to the Zelda series... oh, and I also thought he was too big. I personally thought it made sense that Zero Suit Samus got in Smash before Ridley did because Zero Suit Samus is still Samus, just without her Power Suit, and she is essentially the remake version of the "Justin Bailey" Samus from the original Metroid. Oh, and I distinctly remember asking for a "suit-less Samus" as a new character in SSB3 when I was a new member on Nsider. Metroid Fusion and Metroid: Zero Mission were pretty good and I liked them a lot.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I personally though Zero Suit Samus was a cheap way to throw in some fan service in a game that didn't really need it.

Newcomers in Brawl were kinda underwhelming to me in general. Pit, Sonic, King Dedede, and Diddy Kong were the only ones that got me excited, while everything else was a more neutral feeling. Yes, even Snake hardly got me excited, disregarding the fact that the third party potential was opened because of him.

 

[ChronoBound]

Newcomers that I really liked in Brawl:
Wario
Pit
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Diddy Kong
Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
Olimar
Sonic

All of those characters except Pokemon Trainer, were on my wishlist for Smash Bros. 3/Brawl.

The only two newcomer characters I really wanted for Brawl that did not get in were Ridley and Mega Man.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The character that probably irked me the most was Olimar believe it or not, because I thought the character was pretty stupid looking and I had a general distaste for the Pikmin games.

I was one of the few people that thought R.O.B. was a neat idea, because of it being some sort of kid friendly killer robot and me liking the character in Mario Kart DS.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I liked most of the newcomers, except Wolf. Wario, Diddy, Meta and Dedede I was most happy with to see in Smash.

 

[Arcadenik]

Newcomers that I asked for and enjoyed:
King Dedede
Olimar
Pit
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus

Newcomers that I didn't ask for but still enjoyed:
Ike
Lucas
Meta Knight
Pokemon Trainer
R.O.B.
Wolf

Newcomers that I asked for and disappointed me:
Diddy Kong
Wario

Newcomers that I didn't ask for and still didn't enjoy:
Lucario
Snake
Sonic

Characters I asked for and didn't get them:
Dixie Kong
Duck Hunt Dog
Isaac
King K. Rool
Little Mac
Meowth
Tingle
Toad
Vaati
Villager (Animal Crossing)

 

[Diddy Kong]

I liked the additon of Zero Suit Samus as well. It's done just very well I feel. Two totally different ways to enjoy playing as the same character basically. And also a new Metroid rep, even though it was not Ridley. Very original moveset as well. And again proves Sakurai loves to add surprising additions. I read in an article before that especially in Melee, Sakurai wanted to add surprise additions. Half of the newcomers where decided on popularity (Peach, Bowser, Mewtwo and Marth) and the others picked for the surprise factor (Zelda, Sheik, Ice Climbers, Mr Game & Watch) source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37915502&postcount=7506 . It's very safe to say we'll always get characters that we would never expect.

 

[---]

I personally didn't have a preference for newcomers, being a Pokemon fanboy at the time all I wanted to see was some Pokemon newcomers (and for Jigglypuff/Mewtwo to return). They definitely delivered with Lucario and PT Red, but no Mewtwo made it feel lacking.

Looking back now, besides Pokemon I'm personally liking the additions of Ike, Pit, Olimar, and Z.S.Samus. Due to their appearances in Brawl I actually went out and tried all of their respective series.

Wario, Dedede, Diddy, while I don't care for any of them personally, they felt like needed additions and were all characters who I predicted.
ROB was a good surprise character like Game & Watch. I never understood the hate.
Wolf, who I hated at first and originally blamed for no Mewtwo, has grown on me.
Meta Knight and Lucas I don't have any real opinion on.
Snake and Sonic, honestly both felt a bit out of place, Snake because of Metal Gear, Sonic because of his late addition and moveset.

Anyway, now that I'm at home and have some needed time with Brawl I really fail to see any character being cut, they all just work out so well together and each have legitimate reasons for being in.

That said, the roster series balance is still a little lacking IMO. The only truly needed characters I see are: K. Rool, Ridley, Samurai Goroh, all for giving their series proper representation. Mewtwo for obvious reasons. Little Mac & Takamaru, have a Yin Yang thing going on. Shulk, while kinda weird coming from me, for new IP blood. While never necessary, Megaman is by far the best 3rd party option.

 

[yani]

Shulk, while kinda weird coming from me, for new IP blood.

Ahhh yes.. excellent

 

[8-peacock-8]

So i'm searching Deviantart and i find this roster.

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/193/3/e/super_smash_bros__universe_roster_by_romisnalo31-d55ci29.jpg

Despite having a crap ton of problems (Too many third parties, Mickey mouse, and FREAKING WART as the prime examples) i actually would love to have this as the roster for SSB4. (Have Shulk take Wart's place and i think Megaman should be in his classic form)

 

[ChronoBound]

I wonder if Sakurai cuts no one from Brawl, and brings back Mewtwo and Roy, will he be keeping everyone for future Smash Bros. installments.

Aside from Mewtwo and Roy, the only additions I think Smash 4 needs are:
- Ridley
- Mega Man
- K. Rool
- Palutena
- Takamaru
- Little Mac
- Toad (he is getting so much promotion and promience in the Mario series, that the time to include him is now)

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I didn't mind seeing Zero Suit Samus getting in over Ridley in Brawl.

It would've been just as bad if Krystal had gotten in over Wolf IMO, though thankfully that didn't happen at least.

At the time Brawl was announced, I didn't think Ridley would get in Smash because he was just a recurring boss, not THE villain of the whole series like Bowser is to the Mario series and Ganondorf is to the Zelda series... oh, and I also thought he was too big.

Even before Other M and Brawl, he was actually pretty much the closest thing there was to being the main villain of Metroid like Ganondorf to Zelda and Bowser to Mario. Not due to being the most recurring boss though, but his backstory with Samus which runs deeper than any of the other Metroid antagonists. He may have not been the final boss enemy of hardly any games, but neither was Dedede in Kirby, so yeah.

I personally thought it made sense that Zero Suit Samus got in Smash before Ridley did because Zero Suit Samus is still Samus, just without her Power Suit, and she is essentially the remake version of the "Justin Bailey" Samus from the original Metroid.

Though I've heard that logic before, I still don't see that Samus as being more important than Ridley, who before Brawl was only used in part of one game with just a weak pistol that stunned enemies, apart from briefly appearing at the end of Echoes and Corruption.

Perhaps what I found more absurd than ZSS getting in over Ridley though, was how she was vastly superior to the armored Samus in Brawl on a competitive level, and that's ignoring the fact they nerfed stuff like the charge beam and missiles which packed a lot more of a punch in Melee.

And ZSS can never be a true remake of the Justin Bailey Samus unless she has the bikini and green hair.

Oh, and I distinctly remember asking for a "suit-less Samus" as a new character in SSB3 when I was a new member on Nsider. Metroid Fusion and Metroid: Zero Mission were pretty good and I liked them a lot.

I remember very little people asking for a suitless Samus there before the first Brawl trailer was shown and the idea often being shot down by other users. I'm sure anyone who asked for Charizard or for a Pokemon trainer to be playable before they were revealed got shot down even more though, so I still at least respect Brawl in the sense that it broke that mold, even though I never felt too strongly about the ZSS in that game far as how she was executed.

And same here about Fusion and Zero Mission. Liked Fusion a little more though.

I personally though Zero Suit Samus was a cheap way to throw in some fan service in a game that didn't really need it.

Newcomers in Brawl were kinda underwhelming to me in general. Pit, Sonic, King Dedede, and Diddy Kong were the only ones that got me excited, while everything else was a more neutral feeling. Yes, even Snake hardly got me excited, disregarding the fact that the third party potential was opened because of him.

Pretty much agree, especially on ZSS. I was one of the few who kinda cringed when a zoom-in on her butt was one of the first things I saw from her in the first trailer and was like "Does Smash with as successful as it's been before, really need this?". Snake I was definitely hyped for though, but can see why some weren't.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

ZSS isn't really that fanservicey, at least when you compare her to the resident "Ms. Fanservices" of other fighting games. At least she's fully covered.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Compare Zero Suit Samus to the female MK ninjas, Mai Shiranue, or Ivy.

 

[Deleted member]

I wonder if Sakurai cuts no one from Brawl, and brings back Mewtwo and Roy, will he be keeping everyone for future Smash Bros. installments.

Aside from Mewtwo and Roy, the only additions I think Smash 4 needs are:
- Ridley
- Mega Man
- K. Rool
- Palutena
- Takamaru
- Little Mac
- Toad (he is getting so much promotion and promience in the Mario series, that the time to include him is now)

I can agree with this, though IMO, possibly throw in someone like Goroh or BS, most likely BS at this point.
And he better have Wakamoto's voice in Engrish so we may keep it like we kept Falcon's Engrish voice.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

lol @ bringing up chicks from other fighting series to make it look as though Brawl's ZSS isn't fanservicey at all. She's still pretty damn fanservicey regardless of being 'fully covered', even with some of her moves like the "sexy kick" up-tilt. Also didn't really like how they made her come off as a punk with her voice taunts, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

Strange. I thought people wanted to see Samus as a cocky badass.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Not me. If she was ever really cocky she probably would've gotten herself killed a long time ago.