Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)

[Locke 06]

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-do-you-beat-rosalina-with-mega-man.377742/

Is a little outdated, but still has some insightful stuff. There's quite a bit of talk of this MU on our boards, but we haven't formally gone over the MU yet.

I'll submit analysis later, but that link has something for you to start discussion off of. I'll let the MM board you're discussing if any of them want to swing by.

 

[mario123007]

Megaman is a character that I will never get used to when using him. He has many projectiles that can give Rosalina damage even from a distance. His KO move has to be his down Smash and up Smash.
Of course Rosalina has the GP on her side, but you can't gurantee that you can deflect all of the projectiles.
I give 55:45, this is gonna be quite a close match.

 

[ENKER]

One of Mega's best KO moves in this match up is his Utilt. It can net a KO if Rosalina is around 80 percent, I believe. Getting in to do so is another story as Luma is tough to get around, especially if you play her like Parcheesy does!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Is this including customs?

Sometimes, including customs won't heavily alter the match-up's outcome. I do have plans for separating customs and no customs for the round 2 discussion periods though.

 

[ChopperDave]

Hey Rosas, Mega Main here.

I'd say that this MU is about 50:50. Possibly 45:55, slightly in favor of Mega Man. (This is with customs off. I have little experience against Rosa w/ customs.)

We tend to force approaches with Crash Bomber. Because it explodes on contact with Luma (and can poke him when your shield is low), there's not much you can do aside from GP, jump over, or shield it. Luma Shot is generally a bad idea because any of our projectiles will stop him in his tracks, and we can sometimes punish you for using it with a Metal Blade -> grab or utilt combo. Metal Blade will also hit you through Luma if you don't shield, catch, or GP it.

Coming at us from the air is also generally a bad idea because MM's antiair options are very good. Lemons will stuff most aerial approaches. Fair and bair are outranged by your aerials, but I think they come out more quickly. You need to respect our uair, as it is a trancendent disjoint that outranges your dair and has a windbox, so we can easily juggle you with it if you're not careful. Landing uair is also a potent tool for damage and killing--I've caught and killed a lot of rolling and dash attacking Rosas with that.

Additionally, we're good at killing Luma. We have a lot of disjoints that allow us to pick away at him safely, and safe-ish moves like dtilt that we can use to launch him offstage. MM v. SoRo is definitely in our favor. Without Luma you lose your meatshield, making it much easier for us to zone you with lemons and threaten with fsmash. Because of this, good MM players will often gun for Luma kills whenever he is vulnerable.

Rosa has the advantage of having better KO moves. Generally, we're going to KO with utilt, usmash, uair, bair, bthrow, and fsmash against SoRo. Usmash and uair will kill surprisingly early given Rosa's light weight, so miss-space a move on our shield at your own peril. MM's offstage game is nothing to snuff at, though Rosa's can be a bother for us as well.

In short, MM is pretty even vs. RosaLuma, and has a solid advantage vs. SoRo and the tools to force that situation often.

 

[Fenrir VII]

So I've been among the most vocal Mega Mans for this matchup, so I'm going to quote a message I wrote in response to the MU in another thread, that most closely defines how I feel about it.

The one thing that has changed in my mind since I wrote this is that our uair is immensely useful against Rosa. In the air, she pretty much has to airdodge or downB to avoid it, and both are punishable. It also covers our landings (particularly behind shield), as it hits her/her shield a number of times (she's really tall)

For a ratio, I don't see any way this matchup is worse for Mega than even. I personally believe a slight advantage for him. Nothing huge, but in the 55-45 or 6-4 range, as Rosa has issues getting around the midrange zoning, Mega has decent Luma-removal tools, and Mega has the ability to kill her early.

I actually prefer crash bomb by a significant amount in the matchup, but that may just be preference.

I feel like I've posted a lot on this particular matchup, so I'm going to approach it from reverse.
consider the matchup of Mega Man vs Rosalina without Luma. Rosa seriously has nothing advantageous against Mega Man without the little guy. Mega wins the neutral, the air game, the ground game, and the killing game.

Got that? ok so now your focus should shift to "the goal of this matchup is to remove Luma from play and keep him out of play". I can't believe how many people I see play this matchup without this mentality... and I'm not just talking about Mega mains.

Ok so removing Luma. Mega Man is very good at pushing Rosa backward slowly... even in your post, you mentioned 2 retreating options as good play for her. this is the natural progression of the matchup. you chip away in the neutral and force her back closer to the edge. Once she's there, dtilt, bair (3rd hit), fsmash, dash attack (last hit) all knock Luma off the stage early. dtilt in particular will hit him off the stage at full health, will hit thru shield, rolls, and landings, and will only be punished with a Rosa grab usually.
So I've outlined that Rosa will retreat to the edge fairly often, and Mega has good tools to remove Luma. That gives you 12 seconds of like a 7-3 matchup against SoRo. And to add to the pain, if you learn the timing for Luma coming back, you can bair him before he acts to (potentially) kill him again without Rosa ever being able to use him.
Focus on killing Luma any chance you get and this matchup becomes significantly easier. you can even juggle him with bairs to move him from center to the edge.

Now this story changes a bit if Rosa chooses to separate Luma at the beginning. This does 2 things... (A) it makes Luma easier to hit without fear of punishment from Rosa and (B) it makes Rosa easier to hit without fear of punishment from Luma... honestly take your pick at this point... both are acceptable answers.

In neutral, there's absolutely no reason to not spam Crash Bombs and watch for her to SH Nair over one. Her DownB doesn't hurt us so it's a reset only, and you are training her to downB in the midrange, which will help on a bait later on.

SH pellets work as normal, and stop Luma from hitting you if you shoot him, so that's not terrible. I don't pellet much in this matchup though. Full hop Down45 metal blades are really a win win for you. If they hit, you get a grab or attack (utilt/usmash) followup. If she shields, you can generally get a grab or just bair the back of her shield. If she downB's, you get your choice of attacks.

When edgeguarding her, she has a very adaptable recovery, but it never puts you in danger (as it doesn't hit you) as long as you don't overreach. keep throwing projectiles and fish for landing a bair on her trajectory. If she gets directly below the ledge, dair will end her.
Conversely, she's very good at edgeguarding us. Be adaptive. Go VERY low sometimes. burn your upB first and go VERY high other times. keep mixing it up and try to make her commit, then go another direction.

When you're in the air trying to land, just fade back from her and nair... no need to challenge her shield.

 

[ENKER]

You make it sound easy, @ ChopperDave ! @ Parcheesy , chime in about your Captain Falcon style Rosalina (I think I remember you calling your Rosa style that).

 

[Seleir]

for megaman think rosa have a SO GOOD MU , it`s like 65 35 for rosa because he can assorb evey projectile of megaman, also luma protects rosa from every spam attacks. think when rosa die is 55 45 for rosa because of down b so he can stay safe without interruption.
think side b cant be a problem because is punishable or you can use down b to capture the megaman`s spam

 

[tconan]

imo, 55:45 in Rosalina's favor.
Rosalina has the Down B so she shuts down Mega Man at long distance.
The problem becomes his projectiles at mid range, since Down B is very punishable at mid range. If the Rosalina player isn't careful she is left either Luma less or set up into a juggle.
I personally find sh bairs useful because Luma doesn't take the instant explosion if Mega Man uses side B. Maybe this is just me though...I also tend to go pretty aggro against Mega Man with sh nairs, sh rar bairs, and lunar lands.
The reason I put a very slight advantage for Rosalina is that she has Down B at long range, Rosalina has slightly more reliable kill options, and Rosalina has a slightly better recovery.

 

[Appledees]

I agree with a lot of the megaman mains here though what I like doing instead of just killing Luma outright is just separating them using B-Air or throwing them after a disruptions with crash bombs/metal blades. I feel that's better cause it allows Rosa to worry about Luma alot more and creates a situation where Rosa has to be aggressive towards megaman while protecting Luma at the same time. Without Luma Megaman easily wins. If Megaman plays patiently while being aggressive she can overwhelm Rosalina and give her a hard time especially since she's so floaty and vulnerable to his air normals and projectiles even with down b. Megaman can also kill must earlier than Rosa with Up Tilt killing around 70%.

On Rosa's side she can definitely put megaman in alot of bad disadvantageous positions. I find it difficult to get back in neutral cause she has alot of setups and ways to just pressure Megaman. Good use of Down B to mindgames can really make Megaman commit alot more to approaching or keeping out Rosa. I feel like that Rosalina can really pressure him when he's offstage and I find myself getting kicked off the stage alot by luma or thrown cause of her good grab range. I feel like due to her good edgeguard game this puts the matchup slightly towards Rosalina but not by much. It feels 50/50 otherwise.

I feel like the best stage for this matchup is Battlefield for Megaman cause he can rush coli or hide around the platforms to get a breather from her pressure. It also makes recovering back to stage alot easier. Just my 2 cents I'm sure Rosa mains know alot more than me about this character but I'm just basing it off my experience here.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I'd personally never take Rosa to BF. She is pretty much made for platform play, and is overall excellent when camping under one.

Also just want to point out that down b doesn't put her in an advantageous position when used on any projectile other than metal blade, which is garbage at long range anyway. Otherwise, it's just an impasse and doesn't force mega to do anything.

Mega is very good at edgeguarding her. Her recovery covers more range, but they're fairly even in the 'kills from edgeguarding' dept if both chars are played properly

 

[ChopperDave]

Rosalina's DownB is really only good if she wants to stall out the match or camp; IMO at the end of the day she doesn't gain much more from it than she would simply power shielding. At close or mid range, Mega Man can bait and punish it. The only time Rosa can really convert her DownB to advantage is if she uses it when MM fsmashes, which good MMs won't be doing often or predictably. It can help her in disadvantage, too, such as when she needs to avoid an edgeguarding MM's projectiles (though again, it can be baited and punished much like an airdodge would.) Otherwise Gravitational Pull just resets the neutral.

This is why I say that MM forces Rosa to approach. She has no long range options that will work on him, at least not in a customs-off meta. And MM has a LOT of options for stuffing and punishing approaches, particularly those that come from the air.

 

[Locke 06]

Gravitational pull is non-trivially easier than power shielding, and the area of effect Grav Pull has allows it to be a very good move.

It's not a MU breaker, but it is a tool Rosa has that means something.

 

[iiGGYxD]

I main rosa and have megaman as my secondary. From playing this mu a lot from both ends I'd just be repeating a lot of what has already been said. Yes, RosaLuma has GP but that can easily be baited and punished hard. I've punished overzealous gp rosalinas with sh utilt killing at 70 - 80%

Overall Rosalina does have the better kill potential in moves and rack up damage quick with a grab + her amazing juggle game. I'll put the mu down as 55:45 rosalina's favor.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Grav. Pull doesn't get Rosalina anything really. Most Mega Man players are good at baiting and trapping and we're always looking for reflects and absorbs. Killing Luma is easier for Mega Man than it is for many other characters. This matchup is even at worst.

 

[9Tales]

This one deserves to be really close imo. Like 55:45 or something (with customs it's probably 50:50 actually)
Rosalina can't play her zone game cause she literally gets out zoned. I don't feel the need to type a lot because it would basically just be the same stuff that's already being said. Mega Man is not like overly good at KOing Luma but still. I personally struggle really hard with Mega Mans. I think that might be a personal thing a little more than a Rosalina thing but yeah this is a closer one for sure.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Rosalina goes even at best with Mega Man IMO. GPull negates projectile camping but Mega Man doesn't really do the long range camp thing in the first place AFAIK so that's a wash. Best case it means you can't set up landing traps with charged fsmash.

But basically Mega Man has long range hits out the wazoo that disrupt Luma (even lemons do this) so we can't abuse it for range like usual, and I'm pretty sure GPull is punishable when used inside lemon range. Separating Luma is free Crash Bomber abuse, although I think it does like 4% damage or something that way? I'd also argue that picking up a Metal Blade is actually detrimental to Rosalina since it locks us out of controlling Luma at all outside of Luma Shot and Star Bits. (And Guardian Luma I guess but I'd want GPull vs. Mega Man at first blush.)

So yeah, 50:50 at best for us and it wouldn't surprise me if it ended up worse.

 

[Parcheesy]

Ended up waiting too long, and having my thoughts of the matchup already said by various other people. So in order to beat the buzzer, I'm just going to throw random matchup tips in no particular order. I will say however that unless you're going for a timeout, you need to be comfortable being aggressive with Rosalina.

- Generally, if you want to use her down special, short hop it. It allows you to carry a bit of momentum if you want to use it as an approach, or retreating option, and a Luma aerial ( generally the quick nair ) near the ground will make it safer, as well as catching any metal blades you might have sucked in. I don't see a reason not to do it this way every time.

- I've had moderate success using RAR Gravitational Pull into LL Luma Back air on a projectile read. You give yourself the projectile immunity, and the special priority of Luma back air should beat, or at least tie with the Megaman's down tilt or dash attack, which still leaves you in an advantageous position ( close to Megaman ).

- Get good with items, and know the tech associated with them. Gravitational pull isn't an excuse to ignore item tech. With Rosalina, Luma, and a Metal blade, the character's combo potential rises quite a bit, while denying Megaman a projectile option. Experiment with z-drop mixups ( sometimes catching it again with an aerial, sometimes dropping with it for a grab ). Keep in mind that most Megamen will try and destroy the metal blade with their jabs, so anticipate the option and plan accordingly.

- Without customs, sending Luma out is awful. I'd recommend keeping the meat shield as close as possible, and try to squeeze as much value from its lifetimes before it inevitably dies to lemons, or Megaman's other quick options.

- Know gravitational pull has a deadzone, where if Megaman is close enough, you're going to be hit regardless. This is most important when avoiding his up air. If you expect the opponent to close the distance, treat it as any other deadly up air, air dodge, or try and knock him out of the startup with one of your own aerials.

- Up tilt is disturbingly good out of shield. I've been up tilt punished by simply poking a shield with down tilt, which is a shockingly high punish for one of her quickest options. A Megaman who knows how to use this move on reaction wins the guaranteed kill department by a long shot. Your best bet is try and bait the move ( very carefully ), and punish the enormous amount of lag it has. A whiffed up tilt has enough delay that you should be able to take your pick of smash attacks, and even charge it for a bit.

- In terms of edgeguarding him, she has a fairly easy time hitting him if he goes low with her everlastingly long nair, followed by a down air once he has no option but to up b immediately. Going high isn't terribly good for him either. Despite his aerials usually beating Rosalina's, you're free to punish them if they land on a platform, or otherwise trap their landing.

Oh and 50-50 is probably right, so mark me down for that.

 

[Luco]

Ahhh derp, I knew there was something I'd forgotten!

I meant to get back to you guys aaaaages ago on the Ness v Rosi MU but was busy at the time.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I wish you Rosalina mains would just listen. Seriously, Megaman is better than you think and you're just underrating him through character bias! I don't even know why I post on these boards anymore....

(I'm sorry, I'm really not sure if I've ever been in a matchup discussion where everybody just logically laid out the pros and cons, and pretty much everyone agreed. So I'm really not sure how to react to this. Kudos to the Rosa mains for a good discussion)

One thing I think we can all agree on... this is a stupidly fun matchup to play.

 

[R e d X]

Tough call between 6-4 and 55-45 for Rosa:Mega. I think I'll stick with 6-4 in favour of Rosa

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Tough call between 6-4 and 55-45 for Rosa:Mega. I think I'll stick with 6-4 in favour of Rosa

Can you please give a good reasoning for your ratio input? I had to change the rules a bit during Ike's discussion period.

 

[Shanoa]

Pretty much everything about this MU has been discussed already but I'll give you guys my thoughts/opinions.

-GP is actually not that bad of an option for Rosa because you can use it to bait punishes if you're using it to timer stall. This is also the best option to protect Luma from Crash Bomber and Metal Blades, but you want to be careful if you see Megaman trying to use it at mid-range.

-Detached Luma is not a good option in this MU unless Luma Warp is involved. Don't send out Luma in the neutral because it will get you nowhere. Megaman has so many tools he can use to kill Luma; you'd almost think he was specifically designed to destroy him. Detaching Luma only gives you advantages in your edgeguard game against Megaman, don't be afraid to detach him when you need to gimp Megaman's recovery.

I think I'll give this MU a 50-50 even though I'm leaning towards a 55-45 in favor of Rosa. Megaman has a lot of tools to deal with us and Luma, but I think that we may have a slight advantage with more reliable ways to kill and moves that are harder to punish. Megaman's attacks can be punished a lot easier when they whiff, and it seems that Megaman relies mostly on his punish game to get his earliest kills. But I'm not sure so I'm going to go with the 50-50 because I think that's the most accurate answer.

Edit: Oh yeah, and with customs involved I'll say they can make the MU 60-40 in Rosa's favor because she doesn't have to worry about Luma being a sitting duck anymore. Many more kill options open up and she gets safer approach options. She can even try to out-camp Megaman with the Star Bit and GP. Luma Warp also makes her camp game a lot more terrifying if she can manage to force an approach from Megaman. Imo, customs give Rosalina more benefits in the MU than Megaman, and that's why I give it a 60-40 at most.

 

[Locke 06]

Even if you are going for a time out, I think that's a game Mega Man generally wins. Because if you're playing defensive gravity pulling lemons, mega man has the initiative and can break your defense. The other option is to use luma as a meat shield, but that will only last for so long. I could see her trying to time out mega with a strong lead and not much time left, but Mega is pretty happy to safely and slowly tack on damage.

Even with customs, Shooting Star Bit isn't transcendent, so they clash with lemons.

Since I know you like your MU scores, put me down for 45-55 in Mega Man's favor. Mega Man's killing is very good against aggro Rosalina, and she can't play her defensive game against Mega's superior defensive game.

I know you gorls are done with the discussion here, but we're going to continue the discussion on the Mega Man boards and try and analyze it further. I encourage you to stop by.

Step away from your kingdom of isolation. http://smashboards.com/threads/zero...he-storm-rage-on.371407/page-14#post-18840055

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ Locke 06 : Does your ratio input favor Rosalina or Mega Man?

 

[Locke 06]

@ Locke 06 : Does your ratio input favor Rosalina or Mega Man?

Mega man. Sorry, should have made that clearer.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mega man. Sorry, should have made that clearer.

Yeah, since this is Rosalina's perspective that we're talking about here, 55:45 would mean that the match-up favors Rosalina. But since you think that the match-up is in Mega Man's favor, the ratio would be 45:55 at Rosalina's sub-forum.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mega Man's discussion period is now over, so here's the average that I got after adding up all the valid ratio inputs for the Rosalina vs. Mega Man match-up.

[50:50 - 53:47]

For the most part, the match-up appears to be (almost) evenly matched, though the involvement of custom specials could alter the match-up's results to an extent.

On a side note, R e d X's ratio input was excluded, since he failed to give a good explanation for his ratio input.

Now, it's time to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Lucina.

 

[mario123007]

I believe Lucina has about the same advantage as Marth against Rosalina, I don't really know the difference betweem them... so if you guys could give me detail that'll be great.
After some fights with Marth and Lucina I notice that how many punishable combos can Marth and Lucina do. Lucina has quick attacks than Rosalina, while Rosalina big hitboxes with Luma, Lucina shiuld quickly take down Luma and give Rosalina as much damage as possible. While Rosalina should utilize Luma well and try not to fall in to Lucina's combos.
I say it's 50:50.

 

[Parcheesy]

In my opinion, her most notable advantages over Marth include:

- Not needing to sweetspot an upsmash to have it kill, making it easier to use on a punish.

- Not needing to sweetspot shieldbreaker to have it pop bubbles.

They're not exactly straightforward advantages, but when playing Marth I find using being able to use these moves when they're needed rather than when they can be spaced perfect makes quite a bit of difference.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Lucina's uncharged Shield Breaker just barely fails to break a fresh shield. It's kind of weird, honestly.

 

[mario123007]

Lucina's uncharged Shield Breaker just barely fails to break a fresh shield. It's kind of weird, honestly.

Sometimes if the opponent shield right when she use shield break, it won't break the shield.

 

[Quickhero]

I don't really play Lucina much if at all, but I can safely say that Lucina has at least a slight disadvantage against Rosalina.

Marth's tippered aerials are the strongest tools Marth has to beat Luma, and the fact that Rosalina has the perfect height to get hit by all the tippered moves while (Marth) being able to space is the reason that Marth doesn't have a disadvantage against Rosalina. Also tippered CS>Lucina's CS.

Both characters can't really just abuse F-Smash against this match-up on Rosalina anyways, so the fact that Lucina can hit both for the same amount doesn't matter because it's just as punishable on Lucina (actually, a bit more because more shield stun) as it is Marth if you miss it.

55/45 or 60/40 Rosalina's favor.

 

[tconan]

Since we're assuming highest possible player skill, I'll put 55:45 in Rosalina's favor.
If the Marth player can space his aerials correctly, he can zone out Rosalina while also taking out Luma. Lucina can do the same, but she has an increased likelihood of getting punished due to lack of tipper.

 

[9Tales]

I remember reading something interesting in another threaded. In addition to being able to tipper Marth can also take advantage of his sour spot, While Lucina's knock back is the same regardless Marth can purposefully hit with his sour spot to set up or continue combos at higher percents than Lucina.

 

[R e d X]

Ehhh mostly what's already been said, so I won't repeat. Think what it comes down to is that some of Rosa's options against Mega are overrated, but her juggle and KO potential I feel slightly edge out mega's with a patient and safe gameplan. Otherwise it's actually pretty even, hence the slight advantage. Lucina/Marth I don't play all that much, so I won't comment on this one

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Kirby's discussion period will be starting tomorrow, but I have updated the schedule for the next batch of characters that we'll be analyzing, after Kirby's discussion period is over.

• 4/3/2015 - 4/5/2015:
• 4/6/2015 - 4/8/2015:
• 4/9/2015 - 4/11/2015:
• 4/12/2015 - 4/14/2015:
• 4/15/2015 - 4/17/2015:
• 4/18/2015 - 4/20/2015:
• 4/21/2015 - 4/23/2015:
• 4/24/2015 - 4/26/2015:
• 4/27/2015 - 4/29/2015:

 

[Seleir]

Kirby's discussion period will be starting tomorrow, but I have updated the schedule for the next batch of characters that we'll be analyzing, after Kirby's discussion period is over.

• 4/3/2015 - 4/5/2015:
• 4/6/2015 - 4/8/2015:
• 4/9/2015 - 4/11/2015:
• 4/12/2015 - 4/14/2015:
• 4/15/2015 - 4/17/2015:
• 4/18/2015 - 4/20/2015:
• 4/21/2015 - 4/23/2015:
• 4/24/2015 - 4/26/2015:
• 4/27/2015 - 4/29/2015:

if i want see some tips for the MU, how can i ? the discussion not only the final result. think you can post link to every char and direct it to the post with disccussion

 

[ChikoLad]

I just so happen to have a Rosalina (Me) VS Lucina (friend of mine) match on my YouTube, so I guess people can reference it. We both played very poorly in the first stock (I think we may have had a bit of delay at the start of the match), but things got kicked up after I lost my first stock.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

if i want see some tips for the MU, how can i ? the discussion not only the final result. think you can post link to every char and direct it to the post with disccussion

The primary post will have links to the beginning of each discussion period that took place. Keep note, however, that some discussion periods have had more postings than others.