Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I have pretty limited experience in this MU but waz fortunate enough to play the best Mii brawler in dapuffster I also waz able to play another one in esquure. Two different mii's with different styles it waz a greT experience for me. Esquire used small skinny mii while dapuffster used default mii.

The difference in the Mii's are going to be kill power mobility and range. Small skinny is more mobile while having less range and kill power. This may not seem like a big deal but it's in fact a huge aspect of the MU. My reasoning behind this is the dreades helicopter kicks. Mii brawler will kill rosalina early 70 or below because of this. This is only true for regular mii brawler. This size and kill potential is reduced for short and skinny making it hard for him to kill. Also being small and skinny he's easier to kill so uair is in play her big time.

Another move to watch out for his nuetral B charged upper. It kills early as well something dapuffster did to me was jab1 upper . It freaking sent luma flying (just barely missed Rosalina. Piston punch is also a scary move esquire used it vs me and it also has extreme kill potential.

The mobility on mii brawler is legit his down B is ridiculous. He can feint with it ledge cancel and combo from it. Be very aware of this move it's very good for him.

Rosalina is going to have to keep him out which can be extremely difficult. Using jab and tilts effectively go a long way. Do not pkay at the edges of the stage you have to be wary of dthrow to up B. Stages to avoid would be SV and anything with low ceilings. So fd bf duck hunt are good places to go to.

Vs small skinny 55:45 rosalina
Vs regular mii brawler 40:60 mii brawler

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mii Brawler's discussion period is now over, though it was heavily lacking. Still I've got some ratio inputs for inputting an overall average.

[50:50 - 57.5:42.5]

We'll have to try this again once the new rules have been applied for round 2.

Now we're at the semifinal discussion period, where we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against the Mii Swordfighter.

 

[ZarroTsu]

I don't generally like fighting Rosalina (sorry), so I'll only say a few lop-sided things:

Gale Strike hits multiple times for ~6% and keeps moving. I can't remember how it interacts with Luma off the top of my head, but for regular opponents it throws them upward, height dependent on damage. I suspect with Luma it would toss it a set distance upward. Sword may or may not be able to capitalize a follow-up.

However, moreover, Rosalina needs to shield or jump over it. Actions afterward, one way or the other, are a blur to me.

Then there's Shuriken of Light, which gains power with distance; so at optimal distance for Mii Sword, Rosa's item magnet can't be used offensively, and at optimal distance for Rosa, the SoL would only hit Mii Sword for like 2% and not even cause a flinch. It may or may not be the ultimate Luma-pestering tool, but again, actions afterward are a blur to me.

 

[Puppyfaic]

The proper Swordfighter set to take against Rosa would be Blurring Blade, Chakram, Hero's Spin, and Power Thrust.

All of these moves are good at one thing in particular: Defeating Luma, or piercing Luma to attack Rosalina. Blurring Blade is a multi-hit attack that sends Luma flying if you charge it up just a tiny bit. Chakram is a projectile that can attack multiple people. It pierces through Luma to apply pressure to Rosalina. Sure Rosalina can Down B it, but if she does, she eats a Power Thrust. Power Thrust is basically a better Falcon Kick. It comes out faster and hits just as hard. Hero's Spin is obvious: The best recovery option, and if you're caught between Rosalina and Luma, it can be used to attack both of them at once and separate them so you can chase after Luma.

Swordfighter has a bunch of tools to deal with Luma, and when Luma is out of the picture, Swordfighter's range and power both best Rosalina's. A good Rosalina though can protect her Luma, or at least punish any moments where Luma is attacked.

55:45
Swordfighter is much better than people give him credit for. Or it could just be that Rosalina struggles against swords. That's a thing too.

 

[Antonykun]

Heyo Rosalina mains dropping some MU analysis, it has to be in her viewpoint yes?

Ok
to deal with swordfighter you really want to get luma in his personal space. His frame data, regardless of size, is terrible. A good swordfighter will know this and instead of spacing out Rosalina will try to space out Luma. Therefore it if pivotal that you make good use of Rosalina's above average movement specs along with Luma's jab to get in Swordfighter's close range. In another note do respect the Fsmash. That move hits really far away and has a tipper so be careful.
uh i have to give a ratio don't I? uh 60-40 in her favor customless 55:45 with customs

 

[Antonykun]

sorry for the double post but since this discussion is going so slowly i decided to quote some discussion at the Swordfighter mu thread who are also discussing Rosalina

Rosalina: We lose, of course. But it's not all bad because we still have tools that work well against Rosaluma. Ftilt (bair/fair?) is good at knocking luma away, which is much easier than waiting for it to die from damage. Of course, it's still really laggy.
Respect those aerials hardcore or you will die. Up-air is very good at getting janky early kills. If they try to recover onto the stage, you can usually get a hit in. Rosalina has larger attack hitboxes than you for some reason so you have to be careful.

ok time for my analysis

Luma is what makes this MU dangerous. The star is capable of being in our personal space while also having better frame data is certainly not something we enjoy. I personally believe that they key to victory lies with outspacing luma rather Rosalina, f-tilts and d-tilts should win against Luma with luma being sent flying by an f-tilt followed by a d-tilt. since she's floaty jab-1 jab locks into Hero's Spin/Grab. Up Air will kill at some borderline unreasonable percents against her so make good use of up-tilt set ups. Due to the passive nature of her recovery D-Air into footstool is very effective at dealing damage if not outright gimping the mother of the stars. Its very important to make use of Dash attack due to the moves luma killing properties. All in all take very small victories against Rosalina until you can defeat luma.

Customs to bring
Shuriken of Light- a projectile that can bait Gravitational ull due to its relatively low endlag.
Blurring Blade- Capable of killing Luma
Aerial Assault- Capable of killing Luma while also having a strong recovery.
Stone Scabbard-Frame 4 invincibility move capable of dodging Luma down air
Hero's Spin-Best move in Swordfighter's arsenal
Power Thrust- Burst movement and defeating Luma.

 

[Parcheesy]

I wasn't initially going to reply, because I've faced a grand total of 1 Mii Swordfighter to date, but I doubt any other Rosalina really has that much more experience against the character, so I'll toss my input in regardless.

It might be harsh to say, but I think this might be one of the few matchups where Solo Rosalina has a favorable matchup. He's just this odd amalgamation between Link and Marth without the raw kill power, or useful projectiles that make the respective characters strong. He has disjoint, but it's not as safe as Rosalina's can be. He has wonky aerials, but I'm not entirely convinced that's a positive trait. Overall, I don't think there's anything in particular about Swordfighter's kit that feels threatening. Against a Marth, you need to constantly be afraid of dying at 40% because of a forward smash, Link has Bombs that he can use to apply projectile pressure against Rosalina, as well as having decent frame data to box with her...This might just be inexperience talking, but what does Swordfighter have to be afraid of?

Put me down as 60-40 for Rosalina. Against an equally skilled opponent, I think the Rosalina should be able to coast into a win.

Edit:

Changed MU score

 

[Antonykun]

I wasn't initially going to reply, because I've faced a grand total of 1 Mii Swordfighter to date, but I doubt any other Rosalina really has that much more experience against the character, so I'll toss my input in regardless.

It might be harsh to say, but I think this might be one of the few matchups where Solo Rosalina has a favorable matchup. He's just this odd amalgamation between Link and Marth without the raw kill power, or useful projectiles that make the respective characters strong. He has disjoint, but it's not as safe as Rosalina's can be. He has wonky aerials, but I'm not entirely convinced that's a positive trait. Overall, I don't think there's anything in particular about Swordfighter's kit that feels threatening. Against a Marth, you need to constantly be afraid of dying at 40% because of a forward smash, Link has Bombs that he can use to apply projectile pressure against Rosalina, as well as having decent frame data to box with her...This might just be inexperience talking, but what does Swordfighter have to be afraid of?

Put me down as 65-35 for Rosalina. Against an equally skilled opponent, I think the Rosalina should be able to coast into a win.

I want to say thank you for being open for discussion and asking questions.
Now to answer your question on what is there to be afraid of from Swordfighter, it comes down to two to three moves Up-air, F-smash, and (assuming Customs + size variations) jab 1

Up-air is a frame 11 move that auto cancels 7 frames after its sour spot runs out. the move deals 16% and is thus capable of Koing Rosalina at around 75%~. Up air can be set up with an Up tilt which is fast (relative to Swordfighter's kit of course) or a down throw

F-Smash maybe slow even for Swordfighter Standards (frame 16) but its range is ridiculous and can KO Rosalina at around 80%~ by the edge. this move is more than capable of out ranging anything Rosalina (though I question Rosalina and Luma) is willing throw at the Mii

Jab 1 is dangerous because it can potentially jab lock into Hero's Spin yet another reliable kill move that come off a frame 7 disjointed jab

as for playstyle the more I play as Swordfighter the more i see him less as Link and maybe Marth and more like Little Mac with his strong emphasis on defensive ground play that leads into big rewards.

 

[Parcheesy]

Oh of course, it's why we're all here after all.

- Up air...sounds ridiculous. I never noticed that his silly spin poke up air actually had 16% tacked onto it. Even though it's range isn't threatening by itself, being able to string into it as easily as you make it sound gives me a little hope for Swordfighter in this MU. I'll tweak my numbers a bit to give Swordfighter a bit more credit.

- Could you enlighten me about Swordfighter's jab? Is there a particular size / weight needed for his jab to lock / combo? Is the first jab a punch, or something disjointed with his sword? The swordfighter I played focused mainly on microspacing aerials to beat mine, so I never really noticed much jab use.

 

[Antonykun]

Oh of course, it's why we're all here after all.

- Up air...sounds ridiculous. I never noticed that his silly spin poke up air actually had 16% tacked onto it. Even though it's range isn't threatening by itself, being able to string into it as easily as you make it sound gives me a little hope for Swordfighter in this MU. I'll tweak my numbers a bit to give Swordfighter a bit more credit.

- Could you enlighten me about Swordfighter's jab? Is there a particular size / weight needed for his jab to lock / combo? Is the first jab a punch, or something disjointed with his sword? The swordfighter I played focused mainly on microspacing aerials to beat mine, so I never really noticed much jab use.

Swordfighter's jab 1 is a sword slice that covers approximately one character length away and comes out at frame 7, very slow for a jab but fast for Swordfighter. It can jab lock on floaty characters while jab 2 jab locks on average fall speed characters. Jab 3 has the property of most jab 3/finisher where it knocks luma away, though not very far outside of the edge.
I just realized when I said "+size modification" I implied that default Swordfighter cannot jab lock and I apologize for that (Tall swordfighter may not be able to jab lock but I am not 100% sure).

I am going to admit i used to be a huge aerial Swordfighter player as this is a short hop metagame and whatnot but in all seriousness Swordfighter's aerials are poor in neutral outside of N-air

F-air has a pretty wonky hitbox and terrible landing lag (though the first hits have simmilar properties to jab on grounded opponent so you could risk using the first hit o Rosalina)

U-air has a poor hitbox on anything that's not above Swordfighter and when you are directly above someone you are no longer in neutral.

D-air is mostly for gimping and the disadvantage state

N-air on the other hand has a reasonable hitbox and lowish landing lag so it is used for spacing but I'd recommend against being over reliant with it as many characters (like Luma) can just flat out beat it with a fast attack or a perfect shield.

Swordfighter's TILTS and jabs on the other hand are great for spacing and they are backed up by the 9th fastest walking speed in the game that only gets faster if its smaller

F-tilt is 2 frames slower than jab but deals a flat 12% and can kill suprisingly early because of the damage.

Up-tilt covers a huge distance around Swordfighter and pops the opponent into the air for either another up tilt or an up air.

Down tilt comes out at frame 5 making it Swordfighter's fastet move, pops the opponent into the air (and luma after approximately 7% worth of damage, be warned you have to be precise with the move though) and deals 8%

so in general Swordfighter wants to space the opponent on the ground until they are popped into the air where he can use his advantage state aerials

 

[Liyrex]

In my opinion, her most notable advantages over Marth include:

- Not needing to sweetspot an upsmash to have it kill, making it easier to use on a punish.

- Not needing to sweetspot shieldbreaker to have it pop bubbles.

They're not exactly straightforward advantages, but when playing Marth I find using being able to use these moves when they're needed rather than when they can be spaced perfect makes quite a bit of difference.

No youre right for me Marths better all around but when it comes to things like punishes and Gimping Lucina is better because she has consistent knock back with her aerials and can punish a shield-happy rosalina with more effectivness

I believe Lucina has about the same advantage as Marth against Rosalina, I don't really know the difference betweem them... so if you guys could give me detail that'll be great.
After some fights with Marth and Lucina I notice that how many punishable combos can Marth and Lucina do. Lucina has quick attacks than Rosalina, while Rosalina big hitboxes with Luma, Lucina shiuld quickly take down Luma and give Rosalina as much damage as possible. While Rosalina should utilize Luma well and try not to fall in to Lucina's combos.
I say it's 50:50.

Lucina doesn't have as strong of a tipper mechanic (she still does have one though)
Her shield knock back and hit stun mechanics are a bit different.
Shes shorter and therefore has less reach but only minimally
Damage is consistent along all lengths of the sword.
But the two are the same speed don't believe anyone who says they are not.
Personally i think she is better for gimping punishing and shield breaking marth is a better spacer

 

[mario123007]

No youre right for me Marths better all around but when it comes to things like punishes and Gimping Lucina is better because she has consistent knock back with her aerials and can punish a shield-happy rosalina with more effectivness


Lucina doesn't have as strong of a tipper mechanic (she still does have one though)
Her shield knock back and hit stun mechanics are a bit different.
Shes shorter and therefore has less reach but only minimally
Damage is consistent along all lengths of the sword.
But the two are the same speed don't believe anyone who says they are not.
Personally i think she is better for gimping punishing and shield breaking marth is a better spacer

I really think they are both the same...
And look Lucina and Marth MU is over...so save this for the second round of Rosalina MU.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mii Swordfighter's discussion period has ended, and as usual, I've added up all the ratio inputs to get an overall average.

[57:43 - 58:42]

It seems that the match-up favors Rosalina by a small margin.

We're now down to the final discussion period for round 1, where we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against the Mii Gunner.

 

[Antonykun]

Mii Swordfighter's discussion period has ended, and as usual, I've added up all the ratio inputs to get an overall average.

[57:43 - 58:42]

It seems that the match-up favors Rosalina by a small margin.

We're now down to the final discussion period for round 1, where we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against the Mii Gunner.

wow the Swordfighter MU is way better than what I thought it would be
anyways I just realized I've been saying Jab Lock when I meant to say Jab Cancel I apologize Swordfighters actual Jab Locks are terrible

 

[Puppyfaic]

OK, Gunner. Where to begin?

Let's analyze all of Gunner's specials against Rosalina.

Neutral Specials

Charge Shot: Pretty much useless. It's weaker than f-smash in terms of knockback, and has too long of an end lag for Gunner to bait out Graviational Pull.

Laser Blaze: Somewhat OK, but still pretty terrible. Only good for tacking damage onto Luma.

Grenade: This is where things get interesting. Rosalina can Gravitational Pull this, but Gunner can bait the pull out and try to capitalize on it. And if Rosalina misses the Pull, Luma eats both damage AND knockback, and catches Rosalina in the blast! Easily the best option here, and is very good for keeping pressure.

Side Specials

Flame Pillar: Good for pestering Luma. Not much else. Can be Gravitational Pulled.

Stealth Burst: Can't be Gravitational Pulled. Probably Gunner's best Side B for this matchup, as it sends Luma into tumble.

Missile: Useless. Rosie has no issues sitting back and waiting for you to stop using missiles, because Gravitational Pull exists.

Up Specials

Lunar Launch: Probably the best option. Very good all-around recovery, but somewhat linear.

Cannon Uppercut: Very redundant. Up-tilt and down-tilt are faster and accomplish the same goal.

Whatever the third one is: Interesting as it can be very widely angled. Good for being unpredictable, but it lacks an attack.

Down Specials

Reflector: Good for denying Luma Shot, but let's be honest; she'll probably have Luma Warp equipped.

PSI Magnet: This is your best friend if she has Shooting Star Bit, as it counts as an energy-based projectile that heals you for around 6% or so each time she uses it. This can force her to approach.

Bomb: Good for pestering Luma and catching Rosalina in the blast. Can be Gravitational Pulled though, and also gets rid of a possible defensive option in PSI Magnet or Reflector.

With this out of the way, I personally recommend 3212 Gunner. Gunner has a lot of range behind her moves. A LOT. Gunner has no issues killing Luma with moves like f-smash, fair, Grenade, Stealth Burst, up tilt, down tilt, etc. and with Luma out of the picture, Gunner completely controls the pace of the match. Rosie can't really pull in Gunner's Fair unless she wants to eat a dash attack or up-smash to the face.

40:60

 

[Kodystri]

Helloooo GUys! Mii Gunner and Ness Main here! . Alright. As PuppyFaic did, I am going to analyze each special as well. As I am completely, lazy, I am just going to copy and paste

Edit: Changed the MU to 50:50

Neutral Specials
Charge Shot: Charge Shot can really send Luma away, but outclassed by Grenades in this MU.

Laser Blaze: Don't Use

Grenade: Rosa can Grav Pull This ,but this is also risky. Mii Gunner can jump above and use Grenades where it hits your spot. This puts you in the "Frame trap" scenario. If you Gravitational Pull, you will get punished by a Bair or if the Gunner is fast enough, Down Smash. If you shield it, you will lose Luma as Luma will tumble for like a second ,which loses your momemtum for a bit. If you Roll, Mii Gunner can simply catch the roll. Also, Mii Gunner is one of the few characters that can effectively "zone" Rosalina. Rosalina can't really appraoch Mii Gunner because of Grenades, Bomb Drops, and Fair. Of course they can be gravitational pulled, but it is not easy as Mii Gunner can effectively punish that, like Duck Hunt.

Side Specials
Flame Pillar: It prevents Rosa's approach. Unsafe on shield. It can be gravitational pulled, but it can be easily baited and punished with a Dash Attack, RAR Bair, or Down Smash.

Stealth Burst: I agree this is probably the best for the MU. Should only be used for the Rosalina MU.

Missile: Useless. Rosie has no issues sitting back and waiting for you to stop using missiles, because Gravitational Pull exists. Yup, almost entirely useless.

Up Specials

Lunar Launch: Only use this if you are afraid of being gimped. C

Cannon Uppercut: This is where you are wrong Puppyfaic. Cannon Uppercut is one of the few things that can reliably spike Rosa. There is an AT where if you grab an edge, you can leave a spike hitbox for a while. If Rosa is in the range either right before grabbing the edge and the one frame where you are vulnerable, Rosa will get spiked. Also, a great Kill move that Gunner very much so needs. Gunner also has slight invincibility while doing it's Up B. This is probably the most used for the Rosa MU.

Whatever the third one is:Don't use.
​

Down Specials

Reflector: Good for denying Luma Shot, but let's be honest; she'll probably have Luma Warp equipped.

PSI Magnet: This is your best friend if she has Shooting Star Bit, as it counts as an energy-based projectile that heals you for around 6% or so each time she uses it. This can force her to approach.

Bomb: Good for pestering Luma and catching Rosalina in the blast. Can be Gravitational Pulled though, and also gets rid of a possible defensive option in PSI Magnet or Reflector.


Sets I recommend: 3222, 3223

But since EVO Rulesets denies Stealth Shot, I will have to change it to...
3122, 3123, 3112, 3123

Those 4 movesets are what you want to use.


Now lets go to the actual MUvs

Indicated barely in ones favor or not in anyones favor.

- Rosa is forced to approach if Absorbing Vortex is equipped as Mii Gunner can just absorb that.
- Mii Gunner is forced to come closer if Absorbing Vortex is not equipped.
- Can avoid the Uair and UpSmash anti-airs easier than most characters thanks to Fair.
-Although like the DH MU, most things can be Gravitational pulled, which makes things harder for Gunner.
-Both has difficulties getting on the stage when knocked off. Rosalina has her jabs, Bair, and Nair while Mii Gunner has grenades and Forward Smash to prevent this.
--Both is easily spiked. Mii Gunner would have to use Up B2 early to avoid it has Gunner has invincibility while Rosa can't really avoid the spike except to put her in a bad situation(like above the stage) if Gunner times it correctly.
-Can really gimp Gunner with Bair.
-Both have great Anti Air- Rosa with her amazing Uair and UpSmash while Gunner has Up Smash and Uair as well. Rosa has a harder time landing than Gunner does however.
-Gunner weakness is moves connecting and killing, which Rage Rosalina is a very deadly thing. Most of the time, Rosa will die before 140%, but rage past 100% is deadly to Gunner.
-Gunner has reliable ways to get rid of Luma through dash attack, Grenades, Bomb Drop, and Stealth Burst.
-Once in Gunner's face, its really hard for Gunner to do much about.
-Once like a half of FD range, Rosalina is in trouble.
-Also controls the pace if far away.


Okay i may have missed things, but I rate the MU as

50 : 50(Customs Equipped)

40 : 60(No Customs)​

 

[Nu~]

Hello RosaLuma Mains!! The Pac Man boards are discussing the rosa matchup.
Come join us!
http://smashboards.com/threads/pac-...-rosa-re-discussion-space-exploration.390418/

 

[mario123007]

Hello RosaLuma Mains!! The Pac Man boards are discussing the rosa matchup.
Come join us!
http://smashboards.com/threads/pac-...-rosa-re-discussion-space-exploration.390418/

Sure thing,besides I won't give ratios to the MU so far in this thread since I'm not familiar with Miis...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This is just a heads up for everyone. We're now at the final day for Mii Gunner's discussion period. Beginning tomorrow, this thread will head to its intermission period.

During the intermission, the thread will be locked from any new postings. I'll also be getting things all set up for the round 2 match-up discussions, which are scheduled to start on 6/1.

Keep in mind, however, that this thread will likely receive a successor, so any additional match-up discussions at this thread are unlikely to happen.

 

[mario123007]

This is just a heads up for everyone. We're now at the final day for Mii Gunner's discussion period. Beginning tomorrow, this thread will head to its intermission period.

During the intermission, the thread will be locked from any new postings. I'll also be getting things all set up for the round 2 match-up discussions, which are scheduled to start on 6/1.

Keep in mind, however, that this thread will likely receive a successor, so any additional match-up discussions at this thread are unlikely to happen.

Wow, it has been a half years since this thread starts. I hope you can make a better match up rules, here are the thing that I noticed:

• Some character have a bunch of ratios while some only has a few, I hope you can set a limit of how many ratios should be given to determine when the MU would end. Or perhaps you might change how the ratios sets...I don't know.
• Some user say that they have a hard time to find a specific character's MU discussion. Remember you can put an archive link in every character MU history on the side next for more convenient of users.
• I really feel that some( Including me) have trouble of giving full analysis. I know the basic rule of giving MU analysis, but I hope I can improve my analysis ability next time. Or make a rule that anyone can make an analysis easily but also informative.

And here are my thoughts on your post:
I really hope this thread can continue, but it's okay for you to make a new one though. Alright I know this thread will lock up soon, so I will end here quick. I

 

[Dr.Megaman]

I just picked Rosie as a pocket main. She is SOO Good.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mii Gunner's lack of a discussion period is now over, so as usual, I've added up all the ratio inputs to get an overall average.

[42.5:57.5 - 50:50]

It seems that Rosalina struggles against the Mii Gunner here, though we'll have to try again at a later date.

And with that, the round 1 discussion periods have come to an end. We'll now have an intermission period, which will last until the end of 5/31. During that time, this thread will be locked from any more posting, and I will be making preparations for round 2, which will begin on 6/1.

Stay tuned for upcoming information on how round 2 will operate, along with the new rules that will be enforced.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This thread's successor has been posted now, so we will no longer be using this thread for match-up analyzing. For the link to the new directory thread...

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/