Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Online matches are a rather poor way to analyze a match-up though, since lag can be a major nuisance.
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Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)
- Thread starter Mario & Sonic Guy
- Start date
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Mazdamaxsti
Smash Lord
If a Rosalina is going anywhere except for the ledge closest to her, she will be hit by the stone/d-air no matter what.Oh it's easily intercepted if you use it like a scrub, but then you remember that you can literally fly under the stage to escape people trying to gimp you, you can angle it high, etc. Also it's quick. Kirby just slowly floats back. He can attack during this time, but his aerials won't beat Rosalina's (or Luma's).
If Kirby is outranged by Marth (and you claim that's a problem), who is outranged by Rosalina, how can Rosalina's range not leave Kirby severely outranged and be a problem? You aren't making any sense here.
Kirby has good combos, but Rosalina has better combos (both in terms of how long they can be kept going, damage output, and possible finishers for KOs), and they are easier to land hits with because of the much better range. Kirby has bad range, and nothing substantial enough to make up for it. He has good combos, but they don't surpass Rosalina's, or many other characters for that matter, in part because his landing lag is (unfortunately) bad in this game compared to past games. This is in contrast to Rosalina's mild landing lag overall and her ability to have Luma throw out aerials without suffering any landing lag herself.
It's alright, but it doesn't reach across a third of FD under any circumtances:
(This is actually a downward angled "Luma Teeter Boost" F-Smash, it would actually go further if angled straight.)
I've given way more than that and your statement right here proves that you are both intentionally being ignorant and only wish to spread fallacious information for the sake of "muh character pride".
Seriously I shouldn't post in this thread, it's a cancerous pool of ignorance. But I see that ignorance and I just have to say something.
You got me on the Marth point, I guess I used the wrong example. I do know that Rosa's reach doesn't give too much of a disadvantage to actually matter.
Kirby and Rosa both have combos, kills, etc. IMO, Kirby has a couple more options due to Rosa's size. I feel like Kirby has one of the best combo games (with customs, without its just above average).
Kirby has so little landing lag, I don't know what you're talking about. D-air and b-air auto cancel (and have little landing lag if you don't) u-air has almost nothing (the basis of falling u-air combos), and same with f-air.
True, but my point was that he has range (while below average, it's definitely there).
To be honest, this is the most points you have spoken in this entire thread, and I respect that. You're calling us cancerous for defending our character from not fit MU ratios, and you're defending yours to get that.
I always end like this, but the Kirby MU is 50:50, and the evidence is there. If it doesn't end up like that, fine, but 30:70? That's way too much.
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Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
With the 4/1/2015 Nintendo Direct now over, I just want to let everyone know in advance that while Mewtwo will be available to download before April is over (4/15 for qualified Club Nintendo users), Mewtwo will "not" have its own discussion period during the round 1 match-up discussions.
Don't fret though, as round 2 of the match-up discussions will include the DLC characters.
Don't fret though, as round 2 of the match-up discussions will include the DLC characters.
Zonderion
Smash Ace
If these announced balance changes with the MewTwo DLC change an aspect of Rosalina, will the future discussions of round 1 include those changes, or will we wait until round 2 to discuss the MU with these changes (if they affect Rosalina)?
Parcheesy
Smash Ace
I don't see much point discussing Rosalina's matchups based on how she used to play. We'd just have to finish up the round with the new information, or start up a new round where we left off.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Kirby's discussion period is now over, so it's again time for me to get an overall average by adding up all the Rosalina vs. Kirby ratio inputs.
[58:42]
The match-up seems to favor Rosalina slightly, but which custom specials that Kirby has could alter the outcome a little.
With that said, it's now time to see how well Rosalina will fare against Pikachu.
[58:42] The match-up seems to favor Rosalina slightly, but which custom specials that Kirby has could alter the outcome a little.
With that said, it's now time to see how well Rosalina will fare against Pikachu.
Mondrae205
Smash Rookie
I have pikachu as my secondary so I am just throwing out things without fighting a rosalina main but using my knowledge of the characters to give input.
Pikachu has a tough time getting in. Most of Pikachu's usual approaches are unsafe on rosalina because of Luma outranging or out prioritizes His low range aerials. Pikachu also has a tougher time getting rid of Luma then other characters. That being said he does have ways to do so and when he does he can combo and juggle her very well.
Offstage Pikachu has the clear advantage with drop down thunder making rosalina not being able to react to him dropping down and just going high like she does to most characters. He probably won't kill her offstage but will rack up some nice damage Whereas Rosalina will rarely got anything.
PIkachu will have to be smart at using thundershock to bait GP without just getting wracked since thundershock has low priority and will just get canceled by moves like her upsmash if he tries to go high.Quick attack will be useful if you can get it off since you will be able to combo off of it and it will stun luma enough for you to not get hit immediately. Quick attack can also get you away from up air chains relatively safely although not always without getting hit by a luna land or dash attack.
As far as ending stocks go Pikachu has a tough time as usual as forward smash doesn't outrange Her like other characters to catch them off guard. Upsmash is good but not safe of course. Luckily for PIkachu (Unluckily for us) Pikachu's grab throws are good. If he is facing the ledge downthrow will be a DI trap where if we DI toward the stage we get thundered and if we DI away we get in a good position to get edgarded if you don't DI he could upthrow thunder. If he does not feel like the DI mixup then he could forward throw.
Overall this matchup is about even 50/50 or 45/55 in PIkachu's favor. If you guys disagree then please feel free to tell me how stupid I am lol.
Pikachu has a tough time getting in. Most of Pikachu's usual approaches are unsafe on rosalina because of Luma outranging or out prioritizes His low range aerials. Pikachu also has a tougher time getting rid of Luma then other characters. That being said he does have ways to do so and when he does he can combo and juggle her very well.
Offstage Pikachu has the clear advantage with drop down thunder making rosalina not being able to react to him dropping down and just going high like she does to most characters. He probably won't kill her offstage but will rack up some nice damage Whereas Rosalina will rarely got anything.
PIkachu will have to be smart at using thundershock to bait GP without just getting wracked since thundershock has low priority and will just get canceled by moves like her upsmash if he tries to go high.Quick attack will be useful if you can get it off since you will be able to combo off of it and it will stun luma enough for you to not get hit immediately. Quick attack can also get you away from up air chains relatively safely although not always without getting hit by a luna land or dash attack.
As far as ending stocks go Pikachu has a tough time as usual as forward smash doesn't outrange Her like other characters to catch them off guard. Upsmash is good but not safe of course. Luckily for PIkachu (Unluckily for us) Pikachu's grab throws are good. If he is facing the ledge downthrow will be a DI trap where if we DI toward the stage we get thundered and if we DI away we get in a good position to get edgarded if you don't DI he could upthrow thunder. If he does not feel like the DI mixup then he could forward throw.
Overall this matchup is about even 50/50 or 45/55 in PIkachu's favor. If you guys disagree then please feel free to tell me how stupid I am lol.
Neku ネク
Smash Apprentice
I'd have to agree with the Pikachu matchup. Fighting against a really good Pikachu player who utilizes the thundershocks, quick attack into smash attacks and thunderbolts is a really annoying fight.
I have a question though. How does Rosalina fair against Fox players? I fight against a really good Fox player who uses the Infinite Jab combos, running Up Smashes, up-tilts, ledge guards and basically everything that would make Fox a pain.
How can I safely keep him at a distance, and if that doesn't work how can I combat his tilts/running smashes?
I have a question though. How does Rosalina fair against Fox players? I fight against a really good Fox player who uses the Infinite Jab combos, running Up Smashes, up-tilts, ledge guards and basically everything that would make Fox a pain.
How can I safely keep him at a distance, and if that doesn't work how can I combat his tilts/running smashes?
Parcheesy
Smash Ace
I've fought a few good ones online, and a few here and there that I've met on Smashboards, enough to know that Pikachu just has a lot going for him in the matchup.
- Multihit aerials will always tie, or hit Luma ( and generally Rosalina too, if she was intending to go in with a Luma aerial ), so Pikachu can challenge all of her quickest aerial options, leaving the Rosalina to rely on her slower zoning options. In addition, Pika benefits from the electrical on-hit delay, causing moves that hit Luma to remain active longer in order to clip Rosalina.
- Quick attack is a fairly safe zone breaker that leads to up tilts, juggles, and smashes. The only counter to which seems to be throwing out large hitboxes, and hoping you guess right on his angle of approach. As Rosalina, you generally want to keep foes from charging into melee range, but in this matchup, it's nearly impossible. It's also very difficult to edgeguard Pika once he gets within quick attack range of the stage, as he can simply wait for you to dedicate to an attack, then zoom around you to make it back.
- Thundershock ( The neutral b, whatever it's called ) is just the noncommittal projectile approach tool that Rosalina has issues with. Using gravitational pull, even while short hopping backwards, is slow enough that you're generally going to eat an up smash, or a combo punish of Pikachu's choosing.
- Not the largest issue, but Pika has several animations that cause him to sink very low to the ground, reducing the effectiveness of one of her greatest tools, her jab ( Landing lag of back air, end lag of dash attack, and several others leave Pikachu flat against the ground ).
The issue with this matchup is Pika has all the tools to stick to Rosalina. Her fastest options in the air lose to almost everything Pika has, her wait and punish gameplan is a gamble to pull off, and her offense relies on using her generally slow hitboxes that a skilled Pikachu would have no problem avoiding and punishing. The character outright prevents Rosalina from using the tools that make her unique, and that makes him incredibly frustrating to play against.
At the theoretically highest level of play, I suspect this matchup will be something along the lines of 35-65 in Pikachu's favor. It might not seem that bad right now because of shaky representation of the character, but his tools line up perfectly to counter Rosalina's.
Edit:
- the Fox jab infinite is very shaky against Rosalina. Just hold up and mash jump, and you'll generally get out of it after one or two sets. Of course, he's still free to jab-jab-upsmash, but that's getting off easy compared to most other fighters.
- down tilt is a pretty good deterrent against running smashes, grabs, and dash attacks, so it's a solid option if you only expect him to make a grounded approach. His nair approaches are decently countered by up smash, or pivoting back into a tilt or smash. With that in mind, it all comes down to conditioning, and reading how he'll approach, and guessing right more often than not.
- I really don't see Fox as a grade A edgeguarder. He's got the standard ledge getup pressure that most have access to, and his offstage threat isn't particularly high with how fragile he is out there. On the other hand, Rosalina should decimate him offstage. If he ever has to use his up b to recover, he should lose the stock. There's no excuse not to go out there and hit him out of the very clear charging period. Edgeguarding his side b is a bit more difficult if he's sweetspotting the ledge ( if he goes over, any of your tilts should beat it cleanly ), so try to avoid aggressively trying to gimp that tool, but rather pressure him on getup with jabs.
- Multihit aerials will always tie, or hit Luma ( and generally Rosalina too, if she was intending to go in with a Luma aerial ), so Pikachu can challenge all of her quickest aerial options, leaving the Rosalina to rely on her slower zoning options. In addition, Pika benefits from the electrical on-hit delay, causing moves that hit Luma to remain active longer in order to clip Rosalina.
- Quick attack is a fairly safe zone breaker that leads to up tilts, juggles, and smashes. The only counter to which seems to be throwing out large hitboxes, and hoping you guess right on his angle of approach. As Rosalina, you generally want to keep foes from charging into melee range, but in this matchup, it's nearly impossible. It's also very difficult to edgeguard Pika once he gets within quick attack range of the stage, as he can simply wait for you to dedicate to an attack, then zoom around you to make it back.
- Thundershock ( The neutral b, whatever it's called ) is just the noncommittal projectile approach tool that Rosalina has issues with. Using gravitational pull, even while short hopping backwards, is slow enough that you're generally going to eat an up smash, or a combo punish of Pikachu's choosing.
- Not the largest issue, but Pika has several animations that cause him to sink very low to the ground, reducing the effectiveness of one of her greatest tools, her jab ( Landing lag of back air, end lag of dash attack, and several others leave Pikachu flat against the ground ).
The issue with this matchup is Pika has all the tools to stick to Rosalina. Her fastest options in the air lose to almost everything Pika has, her wait and punish gameplan is a gamble to pull off, and her offense relies on using her generally slow hitboxes that a skilled Pikachu would have no problem avoiding and punishing. The character outright prevents Rosalina from using the tools that make her unique, and that makes him incredibly frustrating to play against.
At the theoretically highest level of play, I suspect this matchup will be something along the lines of 35-65 in Pikachu's favor. It might not seem that bad right now because of shaky representation of the character, but his tools line up perfectly to counter Rosalina's.
Edit:
Can't quite remember if we've covered the Fox matchup, but I'll answer what I can quickly:
- the Fox jab infinite is very shaky against Rosalina. Just hold up and mash jump, and you'll generally get out of it after one or two sets. Of course, he's still free to jab-jab-upsmash, but that's getting off easy compared to most other fighters.
- down tilt is a pretty good deterrent against running smashes, grabs, and dash attacks, so it's a solid option if you only expect him to make a grounded approach. His nair approaches are decently countered by up smash, or pivoting back into a tilt or smash. With that in mind, it all comes down to conditioning, and reading how he'll approach, and guessing right more often than not.
- I really don't see Fox as a grade A edgeguarder. He's got the standard ledge getup pressure that most have access to, and his offstage threat isn't particularly high with how fragile he is out there. On the other hand, Rosalina should decimate him offstage. If he ever has to use his up b to recover, he should lose the stock. There's no excuse not to go out there and hit him out of the very clear charging period. Edgeguarding his side b is a bit more difficult if he's sweetspotting the ledge ( if he goes over, any of your tilts should beat it cleanly ), so try to avoid aggressively trying to gimp that tool, but rather pressure him on getup with jabs.
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Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Neku ネク
Smash Apprentice
Well, any character if they are played by a smart player can be a decent edgeguarder if they know how to play the character. Somehow my moves get read very easily and I get punished with a back air or running up smash (if I jump or if I dodge roll onto the stage, respectively). This guy I fight knows ledge trumping and has been getting better at his back airs and trumps. Approaching the ledge when I'm sent off screen becomes a pressure match. Not only do I need to worry about grabbing the ledge, if I try and use Launch Star to cross the stage fast.... he just runs after me and clears the stage at a faster pace than I do lol.
- I should mention this Fox player is my roommate and we both do tournaments. He's #2 in our division whereas I fall in around lower Top 8 (I'm not the best player but I'm not a scrub either).
I'm just wondering how to approach and keep myself safe because the matchup against him doesn't seem to work in my favor when I play him vs Rosalina.
ParanoidDrone
Smash Master
Parcheesy
Smash Ace
I'm a bit skeptical towards floaty star bit because of it's slower animation. Of course, it has that awesome priority that will ( probably ) stop a quick attack in its tracks, but there's nothing stopping the Pikachu from going in with a quick@Parcheesy do you think Floaty Star Bit would deter some of PIkachu's approaches or would Shooting Star Bit be preferable so that Rosalina has a long range answer to Thunder Jolt?
to punish your walling attempt. If you're looking to play very defensive against Pikachu, shooting is most likely the better option. It's quick, it can be fired while jumping, and it has the exact same priority as his projectile, so even though it's not particularly amazing, it puts you on even footing with him, which is something.Of course, I'm really inexperienced with customs in general. I've never really given floaty star bit its fair shot, and I'm clueless as to whether Pikachu has a better option over quick attack that we should consider instead.
tconan
Smash Cadet
40:60, Pikachu wins.
In addition to what others have said:
Pikachu is way better off stage due to quick attack.
One thing we do have going is that Luma's priority generally beats out Pikachu's neutral b.
But yeah, Pikachu is too good at zone breaking.
In addition to what others have said:
Pikachu is way better off stage due to quick attack.
One thing we do have going is that Luma's priority generally beats out Pikachu's neutral b.
But yeah, Pikachu is too good at zone breaking.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Pikachu's (lackluster) discussion period has ended, with only a few ratio inputs made. Nevertheless, here's the overall average that I've gotten from them...
[40:60 - 42:58]
Sadly, Rosalina finds herself getting clobbered by Pikachu. I guess big power truly does come in small packages.
Next up, we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against Olimar (and Alph).
[40:60 - 42:58] Sadly, Rosalina finds herself getting clobbered by Pikachu. I guess big power truly does come in small packages.
Next up, we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against Olimar (and Alph).
tconan
Smash Cadet
This matchup is one of my weak points, so hopefully this one will be in depth
I have two questions for you guys:
1. How does gravitational pull work on pikmin? (side b and f smash especially)
2. Should Rosalina and Luma go super aggro or super defensive?
Thanks in advance, and thanks to Mario & Sonic Guy for maintaining such an informative thread
I have two questions for you guys:
1. How does gravitational pull work on pikmin? (side b and f smash especially)
2. Should Rosalina and Luma go super aggro or super defensive?
Thanks in advance, and thanks to Mario & Sonic Guy for maintaining such an informative thread
Blue Banana
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Gravitational Pull sucks in all smashes and side-B purples, I think.
DavemanCozy
Smash Photographer
Hope you don't mind me landing my airwing in your comet. Star Fox has been looking all over space for you to invite you and all your Lumas to discuss the Mu:
vs
Join us here in the Lylat system
vsJoin us here in the Lylat system
Honest
Banned via Warnings
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Personally I think Olimar has the edge here. I have only recently started playing Olimar as my WiiU main, and already I can consistently beat my friend who has been a Rosalina main from launch and is rather good with her (She has placed second in local tournaments more then once with her).
Sadly my only experience in this matchup comes from my fights with my friend though, so I can't say that I have a ridiculous amount of experience with this matchup. But, as it stands now, I think 40:60 in Olimar's favor makes sense. I will try and find some more Rosalina mains before this ends so I can try and update my findings!
Sadly my only experience in this matchup comes from my fights with my friend though, so I can't say that I have a ridiculous amount of experience with this matchup. But, as it stands now, I think 40:60 in Olimar's favor makes sense. I will try and find some more Rosalina mains before this ends so I can try and update my findings!
mario123007
HELLO, YOU HAVE ENTERED THE DUNK ZONE
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Rosalina can do tons of damage on Olimar easily with her large hitbox. And with Luma, which I think it is more reliable than Pikmin, I already think this MU has a huge favor on Rosalina already!
I had use Olimar before, I had face with Rosalina, even though Olimar has a tough back throw, you really have to utilize Pikmin properly to give Rosalina pressure. It was always hard for me to know where Pikmin is and Smash range.Olimar needs to stay away from a distance to give her damage. And then try to punish her when you have the chance.
I give 60:40
I had use Olimar before, I had face with Rosalina, even though Olimar has a tough back throw, you really have to utilize Pikmin properly to give Rosalina pressure. It was always hard for me to know where Pikmin is and Smash range.Olimar needs to stay away from a distance to give her damage. And then try to punish her when you have the chance.
I give 60:40
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Mondrae205
Smash Rookie
Maybe your friend just doesn't know the matchup, you did say it was a recent change and that can skew results. Do you have any specific things that give Rosalina a hard time or help Olimar?
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Well, there goes another discussion period that has been pretty empty. Still, I did at least get something from the Rosalina vs. Olimar discussion period, so it wasn't a total loss. Anyway, here's the overall average that I've gotten from the ratio inputs that were made.
[50:50]
The match-up seems to be even, based on the average, but we will have to look at the match-up again at a later date.
Now, it's time to analyze Rosalina's match-up against the self-proclaimed king of Dream Land, King Dedede.
[50:50] The match-up seems to be even, based on the average, but we will have to look at the match-up again at a later date.
Now, it's time to analyze Rosalina's match-up against the self-proclaimed king of Dream Land, King Dedede.
Hi, D3 main here. I'm not an expert on the RosaLuma matchup, but I know that it's extremely easy for us to clobbah your Luma once separated from Rosalina, so if you rely on your Lumas, you better hold onto them tight. We have a high-priority uair with disjointed hitboxes that is crucial to our aerial combos, but I know your dair has disjointed hitboxes as well, and I honestly don't know which beats which. If I'm right, we both have one projectile each, forcing us to fight at mid-to close range. Your Gravitional Pull can also take away our Gordos if should you fail to reflect them. A lot of us rely on dthrow>uair combos for quickly racking up damage, and your Lumas, together with your dair possibly beating our uair, that option is cancelled.
That being said, I haven't fought that many Rosalinas, but my gut feel says the matchup is 60:40 in favor of RosaLuma.
That being said, I haven't fought that many Rosalinas, but my gut feel says the matchup is 60:40 in favor of RosaLuma.
SalsaSavant
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D3 main here.
This is an interesting matchup, because you have a pretty clear advantage with Luma, but we clobba Luma pretty easily.
Star Bits can reflect Gorodos, but I believe you otherwise have no reliable way to reflect them...but you have your down-b, which cancel it out, so Gorodo's aren't that big of a frustration to you, but you have to devote time to getting rid of them. This is one of the rare cases where our Dash Attack is useful, because it can force Luma offstage pretty easily if we have Rosalina distracted with a Gordo/forced to shield. Our Smashes all more or less clobba Luma too.
Your Dair is really, really annoying. We like to chase into the air with Uair, but it can counter that at mid percents. We'll be forced to go for a safer but less powerful Nair....and at higher percents, not even that.
Once Luma is taken care of, we can use more or less standard D3 strategy, adjusting for your Dair and being a bit less Gordo dependent. Ftilts, Dtilts, Jab comboing into grabs, some aerial mixups, etc. I won't go into all of it here, but Soul Train has a good video I think you should check out if you want to know everything D3 can do.
Basically, when you have Luma, you're advantaged, but we get rid of Luma easily.
When you don't have Luma, you have some ways to handle us, but we can generally use standard D3 strats to handle you.
I'm saying 40:60. Rosalina needs to keep Luma to be effective here. Play conservatively, protect Luma, and respect D3's power and Luma clobbaing skills, but remember he needs to commit to all of his Smashes and take advantage of that. Your Dair and Gravitational Field hamper him somewhat, forcing him to take safer routes to attacking, though even his safer strats can still be effective against you.
This is an interesting matchup, because you have a pretty clear advantage with Luma, but we clobba Luma pretty easily.
Star Bits can reflect Gorodos, but I believe you otherwise have no reliable way to reflect them...but you have your down-b, which cancel it out, so Gorodo's aren't that big of a frustration to you, but you have to devote time to getting rid of them. This is one of the rare cases where our Dash Attack is useful, because it can force Luma offstage pretty easily if we have Rosalina distracted with a Gordo/forced to shield. Our Smashes all more or less clobba Luma too.
Your Dair is really, really annoying. We like to chase into the air with Uair, but it can counter that at mid percents. We'll be forced to go for a safer but less powerful Nair....and at higher percents, not even that.
Once Luma is taken care of, we can use more or less standard D3 strategy, adjusting for your Dair and being a bit less Gordo dependent. Ftilts, Dtilts, Jab comboing into grabs, some aerial mixups, etc. I won't go into all of it here, but Soul Train has a good video I think you should check out if you want to know everything D3 can do.
Basically, when you have Luma, you're advantaged, but we get rid of Luma easily.
When you don't have Luma, you have some ways to handle us, but we can generally use standard D3 strats to handle you.
I'm saying 40
:60. Rosalina needs to keep Luma to be effective here. Play conservatively, protect Luma, and respect D3's power and Luma clobbaing skills, but remember he needs to commit to all of his Smashes and take advantage of that. Your Dair and Gravitational Field hamper him somewhat, forcing him to take safer routes to attacking, though even his safer strats can still be effective against you.
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Mondrae205
Smash Rookie
In the past D3's Up Air has beaten my down air so take that as you will.
ParanoidDrone
Smash Master
My experience online (so take with salt) is that Dedede beats us out in the "humongous hitboxes" department (seriously that hammer is huge) but if we can press the offensive and stay in his face then it's hard for him to really do much back to us since I think his fastest move is...f8 or something? He's juggle fodder in particular due to being such a fatty. I get the impression that he prefers to sit back and use his hitboxes to stuff the opponent's buttons more than anything, if I'm being honest. Not sure how accurate that is.
I haven't had a huge amount of success trying to hit Gordos back, I prefer to just absorb then with GPull. I'll play the "online johns" card for that.
That said, Dedede hits like a truck and if we mess up he can kill us super early. His fsmash has deceptive range, in particular. His moves are also generally strong enough to make a mess out of Luma. Dtilt is also annoying to deal with but I'm still not really used to it. I think shieldgrabbing can beat it if I remember the option exists.
I'm not sure if Rosalina completely invalidates Dedede, but I do think we have the advantage, so I'll call it 60:40 for now.
Extra note: With customs enabled, I hear that Dedede Storm is a particularly good anti-Luma move but I don't have any experience with or against it. Can someone else confirm/deny that idea?
I haven't had a huge amount of success trying to hit Gordos back, I prefer to just absorb then with GPull. I'll play the "online johns" card for that.
That said, Dedede hits like a truck and if we mess up he can kill us super early. His fsmash has deceptive range, in particular. His moves are also generally strong enough to make a mess out of Luma. Dtilt is also annoying to deal with but I'm still not really used to it. I think shieldgrabbing can beat it if I remember the option exists.
I'm not sure if Rosalina completely invalidates Dedede, but I do think we have the advantage, so I'll call it 60:40 for now.
Extra note: With customs enabled, I hear that Dedede Storm is a particularly good anti-Luma move but I don't have any experience with or against it. Can someone else confirm/deny that idea?
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Parcheesy
Smash Ace
It's funny, I think Rosalina gains the least from the ability for Gordos to be reflected. Aside from star bits, she really doesn't have an aerial option to return them ( fair doesn't work, and nair is awkward to use in a pinch ), so while she can absorb them, she doesn't gain the return projectile pressure just about every other character can take advantage of effortlessly.
Other than that, it's basically as ParanoidDrone said. His pivot tilts are extremely annoying, his air game is scary when we're on the defensive, but falls short in getting out of being juggled, which is something we're pretty good at. It's something between a slight to moderate advantage to Rosalina, but I'll abstain from putting a number to it. I don't think I've faced a truly great DDD main yet.
Other than that, it's basically as ParanoidDrone said. His pivot tilts are extremely annoying, his air game is scary when we're on the defensive, but falls short in getting out of being juggled, which is something we're pretty good at. It's something between a slight to moderate advantage to Rosalina, but I'll abstain from putting a number to it. I don't think I've faced a truly great DDD main yet.
Zonderion
Smash Ace
We should play some time.D3 main here.
This is an interesting matchup, because you have a pretty clear advantage with Luma, but we clobba Luma pretty easily.
Star Bits can reflect Gorodos, but I believe you otherwise have no reliable way to reflect them...but you have your down-b, which cancel it out, so Gorodo's aren't that big of a frustration to you, but you have to devote time to getting rid of them. This is one of the rare cases where our Dash Attack is useful, because it can force Luma offstage pretty easily if we have Rosalina distracted with a Gordo/forced to shield. Our Smashes all more or less clobba Luma too.
Your Dair is really, really annoying. We like to chase into the air with Uair, but it can counter that at mid percents. We'll be forced to go for a safer but less powerful Nair....and at higher percents, not even that.
Once Luma is taken care of, we can use more or less standard D3 strategy, adjusting for your Dair and being a bit less Gordo dependent. Ftilts, Dtilts, Jab comboing into grabs, some aerial mixups, etc. I won't go into all of it here, but Soul Train has a good video I think you should check out if you want to know everything D3 can do.
Basically, when you have Luma, you're advantaged, but we get rid of Luma easily.
When you don't have Luma, you have some ways to handle us, but we can generally use standard D3 strats to handle you.
I'm saying 60:40, Dedede
Hola, as the King, dealing with Rosalina is about baiting her into throwing luma towards him. Most attacks will launch the star offstage, and then is time to rush Rosalina down.
If Rosalina is keeping Luma close, most aerial attacks or ftilt will help getting them apart, and once separated you have to pick one. Most times you should go for the star since a simple dash attack is enough to keep her off your face for a good 10 seconds.
Rosalina has good range in the air, but the king's is slightly better, except when he is above... that is when the extra jumps come in handy. You can fast fall DIing towards the sides and mix it up with some jumps, nairs or airdodges. Or if desperate you can jump to the edge of the stage and recover from below, King D's UpB is fantastic.
Without the star, the King has better damage output, range, recovery and can still live around 150 percent.
I think the odds would be 60:40 to the King.
Final note, gravitational pull does take the gordo away, but, it also stops Rosalina from doing anything else. I have managed to throw away a slow gordo and run behind it to dash attack while Rosalina is doing the GP. The King's dash attack hits like a truck.
If Rosalina is keeping Luma close, most aerial attacks or ftilt will help getting them apart, and once separated you have to pick one. Most times you should go for the star since a simple dash attack is enough to keep her off your face for a good 10 seconds.
Rosalina has good range in the air, but the king's is slightly better, except when he is above... that is when the extra jumps come in handy. You can fast fall DIing towards the sides and mix it up with some jumps, nairs or airdodges. Or if desperate you can jump to the edge of the stage and recover from below, King D's UpB is fantastic.
Without the star, the King has better damage output, range, recovery and can still live around 150 percent.
I think the odds would be 60:40 to the King.
Final note, gravitational pull does take the gordo away, but, it also stops Rosalina from doing anything else. I have managed to throw away a slow gordo and run behind it to dash attack while Rosalina is doing the GP. The King's dash attack hits like a truck.
Why are so many people saying that rosalina has trouble returning gordos? In air, there is Luma Nair. On ground, there is just about every thing, including star bits and all of its customs ( I think shooting can reflect it). We don't have to rely on grav pull every time.
EDIT: Yeah shooting star bit actually does very well against it. It is possible to miss (not too likely) but you can send it back as he hits it at you if you shoot it at him right as he hits it. If you interupt his side b, the gordo will just start bouncing in place. From here rosalina just has to shoot another star bit to attack D3.
Also, Dair also works in the air to deflect them, like Fair and Nair
We can send it back/neutralize gordo with the following moves: jab(any of them), Ftilt, Dtilt, Utilt, all smashes, GL, GP, any side b, Nair, Dair, Fair, Uair, Bair
Basically, there is no lacking in gordo returning ability, whether on ground or facing either direction in air.
Is there something integral that I am forgetting?
EDIT: Yeah shooting star bit actually does very well against it. It is possible to miss (not too likely) but you can send it back as he hits it at you if you shoot it at him right as he hits it. If you interupt his side b, the gordo will just start bouncing in place. From here rosalina just has to shoot another star bit to attack D3.
Also, Dair also works in the air to deflect them, like Fair and Nair
We can send it back/neutralize gordo with the following moves: jab(any of them), Ftilt, Dtilt, Utilt, all smashes, GL, GP, any side b, Nair, Dair, Fair, Uair, Bair
Basically, there is no lacking in gordo returning ability, whether on ground or facing either direction in air.
Is there something integral that I am forgetting?
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Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
mario123007
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King DeDeDe- Strong forward smash, up air....everything?
- Gordos can make an opening to attack Rosalina
- Most moves, attacks are slow and predictable
- Can easily KO Rosalina within 100% damage (Rosalina's Light weight encounters King DeDeDe's strong attacks)
Rosalina & Luma- Quicker attacks compare to KingDeDeDe
- Better air game, can juggle King DeDeDe around in air.
- GP can get rid of gordos
- Need to watch out for getting too much damage and get punished. (Don't get suprised if you got KOed within 100%!)
I give 60:40
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Puppyfaic
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60:40 whose favor?
- Strong forward smash, up air....everything?
- Gordos can make an opening to attack Rosalina
- Most moves, attacks are slow.
- Can easily KO Rosalina within 100% damage (Rosalina's Light weight encounters King DeDeDe's strong attacks)
King DeDeDe needs to take advantage with his strong attacks while Rosalina needs aware of King DeDeDe's gordos
- Quicker attacks compare to KingDeDeDe
- Better air game, can juggle King DeDeDe around in air.
- GP can get rid of gordos
- Need to watch for getting too much damage.
I give 60:40
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Seeing as the match-up is supposed to be under Rosalina's perspective at this sub-forum, 60:40 should mean that the match-up favors Rosalina. Of course, not everyone follows this routine.
Puppyfaic
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Which is why I asked. Clarification is important so we don't accidentally skew the numbers.
Zonderion
Smash Ace
Maybe we should make it a standard to clarify regardless of the evidence in the post. Something like
55:45
Or Rosalina 35:65 opponent
That way we don't have to wonder every time.
55:45Or Rosalina 35:65 opponent
That way we don't have to wonder every time.
Puppyfaic
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I'm gonna have to give the edge here to D3. I fight this matchup more often than I want to and it is not fun. Rosalina is faster and can combo D3 for days, but it doesn't really matter when D3 lands 2 hits on you and you're at kill %. As soon as you go past 50%, you're fearing for your life at all times. That constant looming threat, coupled with D3's better zoning capabilities, gives him a slight edge in an otherwise even matchup.
45:55 DeDeDe's Favor
45:55 DeDeDe's Favor
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