Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

...I completely forgot that Luma Warp did damage

Yup. Rosalina's best bet is to use FSB to detonate the ballons and prevent villager from regrab (only like 1 damage).

 

[tconan]

\

Not really the explosive ballons trade in your favor . If you alread released a set a ballons all you need to do is up B again and luma gets blown up. Their maybe a small window to get a hit in but that's it.

The sequence would be something like ledge drop Up B. If you have the sapling it out cuts off rosalina options. So it's the ballons vs luma and Villager wins that.

If the villager is stalling on the ledge, Rosalina can just shield the up b explosion or anything that Villager throws at her and down smash Villager. Also, since we're assuming that both players are at the highest skill level, I don't think the Villager would be stupid enough to stall on the ledge (=no stage control) and grab the ledge a second time, since there's about 20 frames of vulnerability.
My opinion with customs on is 45:55 Villager wins slightly, since Villager gets better at zoning with down b and gains a safer recovery with up b, but Rosalina gets a little bit better with the zoning with shooting star bit (I think you need to have insanely good reaction time or good read since Rosalina can just mix up the timing of shooting star bit to not let Villager take it that easily, plus the star bit is really quick), and gains a zone breaking option in Luma warp.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

\

If the villager is stalling on the ledge, Rosalina can just shield the up b explosion or anything that Villager throws at her and down smash Villager. Also, since we're assuming that both players are at the highest skill level, I don't think the Villager would be stupid enough to stall on the ledge (=no stage control) and grab the ledge a second time, since there's about 20 frames of vulnerability.
My opinion with customs on is 45:55 Villager wins slightly, since Villager gets better at zoning with down b and gains a safer recovery with up b, but Rosalina gets a little bit better with the zoning with shooting star bit (I think you need to have insanely good reaction time or good read since Rosalina can just mix up the timing of shooting star bit to not let Villager take it that easily, plus the star bit is really quick), and gains a zone breaking option in Luma warp.

You're forgetting counter timber sapling. Villagers zoning is different when he's playing the ledge game. He's in complete control of the ledge despite being on the ledge. Shielding the up B is fine but it doesn't give you a free up smash.

But yeah that's just my opinion though. Maybe there's something I've missed. But I do not believe Rosalina wins this MU with customs. Maybe one of the better Rosalinas know something I do not.

Luma warp doesn't break his zoning it at best only interrupts him while he's setting up. Once you're playing from behind those moves have lil to no impact and SSB is worthless. Luma warp is basically asking Luma to get killed.

 

[Parcheesy]

So...A stalling villager is the one time where catapulting an untethered Luma with launch star might be an appropriate option. I'm not sure how to best approach his ledge game, but shooting Luma over the slingshots and rockets ( and hopefully between the balloons ) seems like it would be a funny way to handle the situation. Just something worth trying out, I've never had the good fortune to find a Villager patient enough to employ this tactic against me.

 

[tconan]

You're forgetting counter timber sapling. Villagers zoning is different when he's playing the ledge game. He's in complete control of the ledge despite being on the ledge. Shielding the up B is fine but it doesn't give you a free up smash.

But yeah that's just my opinion though. Maybe there's something I've missed. But I do not believe Rosalina wins this MU with customs. Maybe one of the better Rosalinas know something I do not.

Luma warp doesn't break his zoning it at best only interrupts him while he's setting up. Once you're playing from behind those moves have lil to no impact and SSB is worthless. Luma warp is basically asking Luma to get killed.

I actually did not forget the tripping sapling (I mentioned down b in my post), I think Villager has a slight, slight ADVANTAGE, and I never mentioned up smash in my post, so I'm kind of confused with your reply.
I just wanted to say that although it is hard to punish a Villager on the ledge when there is a tree sapling there, it is possible.
Also, did you know that Luma warp combos into basically anything (including f smash and up smash)? If you miss then Luma is vulnerable but if you space it correctly you can get free damage at lower percents and kills at higher percents.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I said usmash but meant down smash.

 

[Everest]

Hi ! I'm a Villager main who also used to play Rosalina a bit when the 3DS game just came out.

Sorry I won't talk about custom moves. Even though I think tripping sappling, etc. are far better than Villager's default moves in almost any matchups, I couldn't use them oftenly enough to give a proper reasoning because of the lack of custom moves in FG and in almost any minor / major tournament in my country.

So I would say Rosa-Villager matchup is in her favor like 60-40 and maybe more on omega stages. IMO it's one of our toughest matchups with Megaman. Let me explain :

Villager has a very strong camping game but he is not completely unable to approach thanks to his great gyroid. The thing is Rosa has an answer for both of these situations. Luma can be send to stop Villager's camping with just jabs and side-B, he can also stops incoming projectiles like Lloyd rocket and slingshots making an approach (and even camping) really difficult for us. Of course her down-b can also ruin pretty much the majority of our movepool, but like many reflector moves it can be bait and so it shouldn't be used every time.

Luckily, Rosa is a huge lady (at least by Nintendo's standards) and can be targeted by fair and bair without too much of a problem. The only issue will always be her cute little yellow star, but when characters are separated the task is less hard. Villager has still to be careful since fair and bair do have significant landing lag and can be punished and Rosalina's ground game is pretty solid. Reckless air approaches can also be destroyed with a good old shieldgrab (or even uptilt, if I'm remeber correctly, it outpriorizes the turnips), something Villager is not willing to do because of his infamous grab starting and ending lag. On the other hand, the insane range of his reverse grab can completely surprise a Rosalina and give a kill at fairly good % with a backthrow. Sadly he doesn't have any very fiable followups after his grab.

Edit : The famous villager combo down smash=>up smash, is a good way to finish off ennemies, but can be completely forgotten if Luma is around Rosa, making the kill a bit harder for Villager.

The two characters are floaty and relatively easy to juggle but Villager's dair and fair in this matchup are a bit risky since Rosa's have a superior range. By the way, that range can be very hard to deal with because Villager's best combo breaker is his incredible nair (hits on frame 3 !) and it's a close range move.

Good thing for Villager is if he gets to throw Rosa offstage he can sometimes gimp her badly. I usually go for fair and nair but as always Luma can be a pain just by being there and protecting her from the slingshot. If Luma is down, then it gets much easier. But as said earlier, even with him, Rosa is indeed some kindda BIG target.

And when she is below the stage, gimped by a frenetic Villager's nair, I know it can be a pain to correctly aim with her non-forgiving up-b.

Hope it will help the discussion, do not hesitate to correct me if you think I'm wrong or I'm forgetting something.

 

[Antonykun]

Hi ! I'm a Villager main who also used to play Rosalina a bit when the 3DS game just came out.

Sorry I won't talk about custom moves. Even though I think tripping sappling, etc. are far better than Villager's default moves in almost any matchups, I couldn't use them oftenly enough to give a proper reasoning because of the lack of custom moves in FG and in almost any minor / major tournament in my country.

So I would say Rosa-Villager matchup is in her favor like 60-40 and maybe more on omega stages. IMO it's one of our toughest matchups with Megaman. Let me explain :

Villager has a very strong camping game but he is not completely unable to approach thanks to his great gyroid. The thing is Rosa has an answer for both of these situations. Luma can be send to stop Villager's camping with just jabs and side-B, he can also stops incoming projectiles like Lloyd rocket and slingshots making an approach (and even camping) really difficult for us. Of course her down-b can also ruin pretty much the majority of our movepool, but like many reflector moves it can be bait and so it shouldn't be used every time.

Luckily, Rosa is a huge lady (at least by Nintendo's standards) and can be targeted by fair and bair without too much of a problem. The only issue will always be her cute little yellow star, but when characters are separated the task is less hard. Villager has still to be careful since fair and bair do have significant landing lag and can be punished and Rosalina's ground game is pretty solid. Reckless air approaches can also be destroyed with a good old shieldgrab (or even uptilt, if I'm remeber correctly, it outpriorizes the turnips), something Villager is not willing to do because of his infamous grab starting and ending lag. On the other hand, the insane range of his reverse grab can completely surprise a Rosalina and give a kill at fairly good % with a backthrow. Sadly he doesn't have any very fiable followups after his grab.

Edit : The famous villager combo down smash=>up smash, is a good way to finish off ennemies, but can be completely forgotten if Luma is around Rosa, making the kill a bit harder for Villager.

The two characters are floaty and relatively easy to juggle but Villager's dair and fair in this matchup are a bit risky since Rosa's have a superior range. By the way, that range can be very hard to deal with because Villager's best combo breaker is his incredible nair (hits on frame 3 !) and it's a close range move.

Good thing for Villager is if he gets to throw Rosa offstage he can sometimes gimp her badly. I usually go for fair and nair but as always Luma can be a pain just by being there and protecting her from the slingshot. If Luma is down, then it gets much easier. But as said earlier, even with him, Rosa is indeed some kindda BIG target.

And when she is below the stage, gimped by a frenetic Villager's nair, I know it can be a pain to correctly aim with her non-forgiving up-b.

Hope it will help the discussion, do not hesitate to correct me if you think I'm wrong or I'm forgetting something.

Villager + Camping = Bad

Villager is usually a bad camper but against Someone as Tall as Rosalina? Well that's another story. luma does not get hit by rising short hopped f-airs. What Villager REALLY wants to do tho is harass Rosalina with his amazing close range buttons

Slinghots at close range send luma away often to dis death

Villager's best OOS is N-air unless you want to kill then its a grab into b-throw

If Rosalina Sends Luma to stop Villager's camp Villager is going to either pick on luma or ignore the star and go after Mommy

Villager isn't even that light he's only slightly lighter than the mario bros

BTW Rosalina is one of the tallest characters even taller than charizard.

Villager's go to edgeguard move on Rosalina is D-air as it spikes (sometimes)

 

[MashPotato]

I'd say the matchup is in villager's favor 60-40. I use villager and have some experience with rosalinas. I don't know about rosa's customs so I can't really give any input as far as customs go.

The major thing benefitting villager is rosa's height. Imo no tall character is good against villager. Fair and Bair are just too good. It's not that hard to time it to go over luma and still hit rosa. Lloyd is a great way to whittle away luma's health, interrupt luma shot (if attempted), and as a good general mixup. Villager can also gimp her with dair/nair somewhat effectively since her recovery lacks a hit box. On the other hand luma can get in the way with short hops to approach (maybe). Invisibility on her roll is also good. She has disjointed juggles so Nair is not very useful. She also kills a little sooner and easier.

Overall villager has a better mid range game and nair to keep it mid-range and avoid grabs. Rosa doesn't have much to respond with. Villager doesn't care about jab spacing he shoots over it, he's usually close enough to punish her down special, star bits doesn't have enough range, and villager is better off stage. She can do well if she can get in, its just getting in that's going to be difficult.

And just a side note on villagers customs, his balloons do not detonate on their own. They either have to be attacked or he has to use his up special again (before they vanish).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Villager's discussion period is now over. As such, I've added up all the ratio inputs to get an overall average.

[48:52 - 49:51]

It seems that the Villager has a small advantage for this match-up, though customs could play a factor too.

Next up, we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against Meta Knight.

 

[Bonk!]

Meta Knight's early kill setups are very easy to score on Rosalina due to her being big and floaty. If we dash attack you at like 15-25% we can end the stock right there.

Another funny thing is that we have Drill Rush. It carries Luma with us even if you shield it so it's a great way to just get rid of Luma, but it leaves us open for a little.

It can be really hard for us to approach due to low range. Just watch out for dash attacks and grabs.

This mu in my opinion can go both ways. Meta Knight can kill Rosalina earlier, but has a hard time getting back when Rosalina is in control.

 

[mario123007]

Meta Knight

• Awesome combo links
• Good recovery
• Fast attacks and grabs, can KO Rosalina in early damage
• Drill rush is great way to take down Luma at the start.

Rosalina & Luma

• Floaty, and a big figure compare to Meta Knight
• Luma do a great zoning at Meta Knight.
• Bigger hitbox than Meta Knight, but not faster.

I agree that Meta Knight can quick give Rosalina a lot of damage if doing a great combo. For thise who would like to take down Meta Knight, Rosalina isn't a good choice if you don't have a great reaction, like me...
I give 45:55 to this MU

 

[tconan]

I thought we were assuming highest level possible from both sides, so for the exact same reasons as @ mario123007 and the fact that Meta Knight is better at edgeguarding Rosalina than vice versa, I give 60:40 Rosalina. Luma zoning I think plays a big part in this matchup.

 

[mario123007]

I thought we were assuming highest level possible from both sides, so for the exact same reasons as @ mario123007 and the fact that Meta Knight is better at edgeguarding Rosalina than vice versa, I give 60:40 Rosalina. Luma zoning I think plays a big part in this matchup.

With the new patch, Luma will die more often, so I guess it will slightly effect Luma's zoning advantage against Meta Knight.

 

[tconan]

Very slightly, since Luma's HP only dropped by 4% and Meta Knight kills Luma better through knocking Luma off stage.

 

[warionumbah2]

@Katakiri @W.A.C. @ItoI6 @ZTD | TECHnology @Superbat @ Ulevo @Oblivion129

http://smashboards.com/threads/meta...n-critique-thread.371317/page-3#post-18754137
High level MK vs Rosalina(and later Kirby lol) both of which Ito came out the winner. Luma's Zoning doesn't tip the MU in her favor when she clearly doesn't outclass MK in other areas such as: Overall Ground game(especially without Luma),Frame data,Ground speed,Off Stage and Kill setups/power.

If Rosalina wants to zone MK out, MK can approach ontop of Rosalina with tornado which eats her shield(http://i.imgur.com/PO0XpkV.gif) and the final hit knocks Luma away. Pre patch MK had RCO lag after his cape so MKs couldn't use it to get out of tough situations, now however its gone meaning MK can escape situations where Luma is poking his shield.

MK along with other characters doesn't struggle to kill Luma, Drill Rush IMO isn't safe and it sucks. Any MK user that uses this is on crack unless its a misclick or to recover. MKs Dash attack is much safer than Drill Rush because it has low cool down and it crosses up shields. If Roslaina spot dodges,Rolls or Shields Luma will get hit and the strong hit of DA knocks Luma this far http://i.imgur.com/RkHFsHd.png because of the low cool down MK can roll out of it to avoid a dash grab from Rosalina then come back with another DA while Luma is still in hitsun, or turn around and DA Rosalina and then in this situation MK has so much time to kill Luma he can whiff a FH Nair and still be able to D-Smash Luma before it can fight back.

Much better players thoughts on this MU.

spacing with ftilt and dtilt is pretty bad because you need to be in the middle of luma for the attacks to be in range, and if youre in range luma is always threatening its safe on block jab. she also floats off the ground on her animations so dtilt misses very easily. just stick to dash attack and dash grabs. its kinda hard to get in against rosa because of lumas jab but after like a few tornados/grabs rosa is ready to die, so it feels really in favor of mk hit for hit and its very easy to catch up even when youre far behind.

also rosa dair and uair are unbeatable even with shuttle loop, so you need to be kind of careful during recovery for once. uair chains are also extremely free if luma isnt around. pretty straightforward matchup, id say its a bit in mks favor.

Guess I'll just add on to what warionumbah2 said since that covered a large part of the MU.

As long as you throw immediately after grabbing, Luma will enter a panic state where it's flailing its arms and can't do anything. All throws are safe, just don't pummel. D-Throw also hits Luma and knocks it away if you shield grab Rosalina. And if you dash grab, you'll slide away from Luma anyway.

The big factor of this MU is that Rosalina doesn't get a Luma for the majority of the match because MK has numerous and easy ways to off it without missing a beat. Her attack speed without Luma is pretty average and she misses a portion of her damage and reach as well without Luma. At low percent, it's always with trading damage for roughly 16-17 seconds without Luma but playing smart will eventually net you the KO without the risk.

Drill Rush handles Rosalina's edge-guarding traps. It beats Luma on the ledge and we can either bounce off Luma and fast fall to grab ledge, angle ourselves after we hit Luma and bounce off the floor and fast fall to grab ledge, or bounce of Rosalina herself and grab ledge. It puts Luma into its stunned state so Luma won't be a threat when getting off the ledge. High Speed Drill is also pretty decent for recovering in the same fashion and High Speed Drill also gives MK another very easy option to KO Luma at any point.

Piercing Cape makes it much easier to land from a juggle against Rosalina due to its long vertical teleportation range and its decreased ending lag. But choosing that option means it's safe for Rosalina to throw out charged Smash Attacks on ledge. With default Dimensional Cape, MK can get free damage or even a KO if Rosalina dares charge a move or enter her Rapid Jab state.

Know your options when juggling. Her D-Air beats our Up-Air but she's vulnerable from the sides, predict it and B-Air or F-Air. I think Up-Tilt actually out-reaches her D-Air but I'm not sure. Shield Grab on flat stages but it's not likely Rosalina will take you to a flat stage. You can also Up-Smash OoS for the KO. Rosalina has trouble landing against any character so this isn't just something MK's good at.

Off-stage Rosalina should eat quite a bit of damage before coming back, if she comes back. Hang off the ledge and wait for her Up-B. It's slow enough to react to so B-Air or N-Air on-ledge if she recovers low and jump on-stage and chase her for a combo if she recovers high. Hanging off the ledge really gives MK a lot of control so abuse it.

As for stages, Smashville is your best stage. It gives you a landing option on the platform, you can platform camp, and if Rosalina lands on the platform, she has no way of keeping you from Up-Air pressuring her due to her very slow D-Air. Lylat is your next best bet due to the higher ceiling and the horrible ledges making Rosalina's recovery even worse. Lylat is also nice for landing out of juggles via cape due to the platforms allowing you to mix-up where you cape to.

Avoid Town & City, Delfino, and Castle Siege and you should be fine. Battlefield is good for Rosalina but it's great for MK too.

Over at the MK boards we all think its 60:40 in MKs favor. I heard Rosalina was left untouched during the patch while MK got his rco lag fixed, i don't think it changes the mU especially Luma's HP when it'll die from getting knocked off stage anyway.

Sheik and Rosalina are the easiest characters to keep up with in the percent wars. There's also a footstool combo that's easier to do on Rosalina than most of the cast and because her very light weight she can be killed on stages such as TnC, but i don't think that matters unless MKs start heading towards the footstool combo area and master it.

Never played custom Rosalina though, hopefully other MKs can fill that hole.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ warionumbah2 : We will analyze Meta Knight again at a later date. When that time comes, this thread will have some major changes with its rules.

 

[Ulevo]

It is worth noting that from a dash grab, if you time it correctly, you will always land on top of Luma when performing an up throw. This has a decent amount of knock back, doesn't put Meta Knight at risk of Luma retaliation, and can easily move Luma off stage.

 

[Douchuumen]

Can anyone give a good explanation why Pikachu and Sheik win against Rosa?

Also, what do you guys think of Diddy post-patch?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Can anyone give a good explanation why Pikachu and Sheik win against Rosa?

Also, what do you guys think of Diddy post-patch?

Those questions should probably be asked at the Q&A thread. Also, all characters will be analyzed more than once, especially since the discussion period results that were made before the 1.0.6 update may be outdated now.

 

[mario123007]

Those questions should probably be asked at the Q&A thread. Also, all characters will be analyzed more than once, especially since the discussion period results that were made before the 1.0.6 update may be outdated now.

Kind of feel pity that the later character MUs didn't make it to the analysis before the patch...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Meta Knight's lackluster discussion period is now over. As usual, I've added up all the available ratio inputs to get an overall average.

[48:52]

Apparently, Meta Knight has a small advantage, but customs can potentially play a factor too.

Now, it's time to analyze Rosalina's match-up against the Aura Pokemon, Lucario.

 

[tconan]

I feel there's a lack of good Lucario players out there. Very underrepresented even though he's pretty good.
Please take this post with a grain of salt, since I don't have too much experience against Lucario:
Lucario pros:
Great recovery
B reverse aura sphere charge can be used to get in on Rosalina.
Aura effect kills Rosalina very early, especially with side b.
Great dash attack
Can juggle Rosalina.
Rosalina and Luma pros:
Rosalina and Luma outrange Lucario at lower percentages, but when Lucario is at higher percentages their ranges become similar.
Luma acts as a meat shield to Lucario's aura sphere.
Down b can absorb aura sphere at long range.
Has great juggling since Lucario is floaty.

Overall I'll give it 55:45 Rosalina but I'm definitely open to others' opinions about this matchup.

 

[mario123007]

Urgh...don't get me with Lucario, another character that I found annoying in Smash.
But I'm still going to do a fair MU analysis though.
Lucario

• Great recovery.(Sometimes too great to miss the ledge and ges over the stage, making an opening for Rosalina to punish.)
• Aura Sphere a good move for edge guard.
• Powerful knockback dash attack.
• Good combo trick.

Rosalina & Luma

• Too easy to get ko in low percentages
• With Luma, can also do a good combo, and a good zoning, and a shield for Rosalina.
• Also has a good recovery, but compare to Lucario, easier to get spiked.
• GP can deflect Aura Sphere.

I give 45:55 to this MU, seems that Lucario has slightly more advantage.
These MU videos are pre 1.0.6, but since there's weren't any big changes between these two characters, these videos are still reliable.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K0_9PHv1Ths
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MjuYG2PLpEQ

 

[Eeveecario]

Hi! Greetings from the Lucario Thread! I come in peace!

Well, mentioning first the cons we have against you:

• If we don't know how to approach correctly, we'll be having a hard time receiving a lot of hits.
• Luma can be an annoying obstacle.
• Your aerials are long-reaching and disjoint (If I'm correctly), and you will prioritize and win trades most of the time.
• Down B can "deny" our spacing.
• At low %, Luma mostly win jab trades.
• Luma can KO us pretty early if we don't respect him/her (or whatever it is).
• And maybe more I'm missing.

Pros.

• If you don't have luma, he has overall advantage.
• We can easily get rid of Luma at close or long ranged offensive, we can even try using Aura Sphere to your star shield on purpose, only to get rid of him.
• If we manage to read when to shield/dodge & bait, we can deal a lot of damage before Luma gets back.
• At high percents, We can KO you since you're too lightweight, a smash attack can KO around 50% if timed correctly.
• We can Down B to Luma, and reach Rosalina (and vice-versa) if spaced correctly.

Overall, when you have Luma, we can be in neutral MU, but when you don't, we have the offensive.
In conclusion and being honest, I guess we have the advantage, maybe a 60:40if we manage to approach correctly.

Hope this info is useful for both of us! Also, feel free to ask for some matches! We know there's a lack of good aura guardians there, and definitely the good ones are not campers and have a strong mix-up game.
Looking forward for this MU!

 

[MezzoMe]

I don't have that much experience on the match-up to give a ratio, so I'll limit myself to give two imputs:

• Lucario has higher start-up on his up B to make up for his higher traveling speed
• Lucario's neutral is flat-out crap, there isn't even asking it, you could tell that just by looking at the start-up of his high-ranged attacks and his own speed.

 

[Parcheesy]

Hope this info is useful for both of us! Also, feel free to ask for some matches! We know there's a lack of good aura guardians there, and definitely the good ones are not campers and have a strong mix-up game.
Looking forward for this MU!

I'd love to take you up on that offer! I love practicing this matchup, and could use a few more times getting wrecked by good Lucarios before I give my input here. I'll be available for games tonight, around 8-10 PM EST.

 

[mario123007]

I'd love to take you up on that offer! I love practicing this matchup, and could use a few more times getting wrecked by good Lucarios before I give my input here. I'll be available for games tonight, around 8-10 PM EST.

Any live streams?

 

[Parcheesy]

Any live streams?

It's mostly just going to be friendlies for a while, but I can save the best replays for you if you'd like.

 

[Parcheesy]

Okay! After several hours of mainly getting thrashed by Eeveecario's...cario, I've learned quite a bit about the matchup.

First and foremost, Lucario's up throw sends Luma horizontally, facing away from Lucario. Aside from being a Luma killer akin to a Mario back throw, it puts Rosa in a position where Lucario can followup without fear of a Luma counterattack. As such, I'd highly suggest playing untethered for the majority of the match. When separated, keep in mind Lucario has enough disjoint to challenge Luma directly, so be ready to charge in to defend it at a moment's notice.

Lucario's counter is disgustingly good, and demands to be played around. The move seems to scale solely on Lucario's aura, rather than the attack being countered, so even countering something as simple as a jab can be extremely lethal. As far as I'm aware, there's no way to cheese the counter by double hitting him, and even a single jab or tilt by Rosa puts her in enough lag that she won't be able to shield in time.

As one might expect, letting Lucario reach higher percents each stock is his win condition and will almost always cost you the game. Knowing this, the Rosalina playing this matchup needs to be on point with their offstage game. Lucario can stall an extreme amount of time offstage, much moreso on any stage with a flat wall, so avoid jumping preemptively and giving Lucario a free pass back to the stage. Be patient, but also go as deep as necessary if you think it has a chance to score you an early kill. He has a fair startup on his up+B, and if it becomes his only option, there's little he can do against a Rosa chasing him to the blastzone.

As Lucario's damage scales up, the way his moves trade with yours changes. Even though trading with a high percent Lucario might seem like a bad idea regardless, keep in mind things that worked earlier in the stock might not work near the end.

It's a fun matchup where both sides have this really unique mechanic that they need to fully utilize in order to win. It definitely feels disadvantageous to Rosalina though. Lucario just has so many incredibly deadly 50-50 mixups that he can use, that losing stocks at 50-70% is the average ( If you're too obvious you get countered, if you air dodge you get backaired, and if you shield too often you get force palmed ).

Going to rate it 40-60, Lucario's favor. At the highest level of play, Lucario seems like he would be favored.

 

[mario123007]

It's mostly just going to be friendlies for a while, but I can save the best replays for you if you'd like.

Okay, so will you post the replay here? Do you have a Youtube channel?
Oh yeah, make sure not to double post.

 

[tconan]

@ Mario & Sonic Guy
After seeing Parcheesy's post, I'll change my ratio from 55:45 to 45:55.

 

[Eeveecario]

O c'mon, the matches were even, and I tried to avoid Luma's shennanigans the most as I could.

Honestly, that was the very first time I saw an offensive RosaLuma, and experienced for the first time some shenanigans of yours (Spinning Luma, Short pass Luma...)

Being honest, that was maybe the best RosaLuma (offensively oriented) and I can't give you any tips, I was too amused for those shenanigans that I can't tell, but it's cool stuff, don't lose it!

 

[tconan]

@ Eeveecario Not really matchup related, but how does aura sphere charge into up smash work? I saw this in a video of Rain vs Motsunabe and was wondering.

 

[Parcheesy]

Okay, so will you post the replay here? Do you have a Youtube channel?
Oh yeah, make sure not to double post.

Oh, none of the matches really struck me as exceptional. They were all good, but none really stood out... Okay, I might have forgotten. We'll be playing more matches soon, and hopefully one of us will remember to send you a few replays. I don't really have the means to upload replays to Youtube ( would have to be recorded with a phone ), but I can add you to my friends list, and directly transfer the replay thanks to the handy dandy new feature they added this patch.

O c'mon, the matches were even, and I tried to avoid Luma's shennanigans the most as I could.

Honestly, that was the very first time I saw an offensive RosaLuma, and experienced for the first time some shenanigans of yours (Spinning Luma, Short pass Luma...)

Being honest, that was maybe the best RosaLuma (offensively oriented) and I can't give you any tips, I was too amused for those shenanigans that I can't tell, but it's cool stuff, don't lose it!

Thanks ^^. Anyway, the matchup rating is an assumption based on how these characters will play a year or so from now, when the meta is stable, edgeguards are perfected, and matchups are a science. I just think Rosa's frailty against a character who is designed to take the first stock, then snowball out of control can't be advantageous for her.

@ Eeveecario Not really matchup related, but how does aura sphere charge into up smash work? I saw this in a video of Rain vs Motsunabe and was wondering.

He pulled it off once against me. I believe it's doing a jump canceled upsmash out of the charge such that there's no delay. I don't think it's a true combo, but should be nearly guaranteed against an opponent without their jump. Correct me if I'm wrong Eeveecario ( Oh, and my day opened up, so I'll be here playing for a quite a bit today. Let me know if you want more matches ).

 

[Eeveecario]

@ Eeveecario Not really matchup related, but how does aura sphere charge into up smash work? I saw this in a video of Rain vs Motsunabe and was wondering.

Aura Sphere Charge -> Shield -> Jump => Up smash cancelling Jump.

practically, everyone can smash OoS. You just need to get familiar that you can drop your shield by jumping, then it's piece of cake. Jump cancelling it's completely different technique and it's a bit more complicated, but everyone in the fighter roster can do it.

He pulled it off once against me. I believe it's doing a jump canceled upsmash out of the charge such that there's no delay. I don't think it's a true combo, but should be nearly guaranteed against an opponent without their jump. Correct me if I'm wrong Eeveecario ( Oh, and my day opened up, so I'll be here playing for a quite a bit today. Let me know if you want more matches ).

Correct! About if it's a true combo or not... sorry! It's a secret =3!
And sorry, this time I won't be able to have matches, I have some errands to do bro, maybe if I find you online later we can try!

 

[mario123007]

Oh, none of the matches really struck me as exceptional. They were all good, but none really stood out... Okay, I might have forgotten. We'll be playing more matches soon, and hopefully one of us will remember to send you a few replays. I don't really have the means to upload replays to Youtube ( would have to be recorded with a phone ), but I can add you to my friends list, and directly transfer the replay thanks to the handy dandy new feature they added this patch.

Uh... I hope you record it with your phone....
If you want to sendvme the Wii U replays, then sorry I don't have Wii U, only 3DS, and my FC is full, but I can delete one or two...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Lucario's discussion period is now over, and as usual, I've added up all the ratio inputs to get an overall average.

[42.5:57.5]

It looks like Lucario's aura mechanics give it the upper hand against Rosalina.

Next up on our list is Rosalina's match-up against the Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[Ritronaut]

(God damn, I'm learning that Rosalina has so much more bad matchups than I thought in this thread, could it be bias from the players? I doubt it.) For the WFT matchup, I would say this is all Rosalina's MU. WFT's janky hitboxes usually don't hit Rosalina well, and Rosalina, from what I can tell, can stop two amazing options of WFT with her gravitational pull, that is the soccer ball, and the sun salutation. WFT doesnt even seem to have anything in her movepool to deal with Rosalina. I'm gonna give this a

60:40 in Rosalina's favor.

However, with customs it changes with WFT's insane UP B, it drags Luma off the stage easily and is generally her go to move to crush Luma. I have not had much experience with customs VS WFT, so I'm not gonna say what my verdict is with customs, though I feel it may be equal.

 

[tconan]

65:35 Rosalina and Luma win (finally a good matchup...I feel you @ Ritronaut )
WFT advantages:
Sun salutation can kill Luma at midrange, and dash attack also knocks Luma away (although very punishable if shielded).
Low startup moves give WFT the tools to punish Rosalina at close range, especially without Luma.
Soccer ball can cover recoveries=less time to set up ledgeguarding for Rosalina and Luma.
Gravitational pull can be baited and punished.

Rosalina and Luma advantages:
Rosalina and Luma wall out WFT pretty effectively.
Disjointed, long ranged hitboxes.
Down b invalidates WFT in long range and forces him/her to play close range or mid range.
Better grab compared to WFT.
Juggles and edgeguards for days

Overall, WFT is forced to space himself/herself really well while Luma is around and has a hard time breaking Luma's zoning.