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Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)

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Mario & Sonic Guy

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I know that we just started analyzing Wii Fit Trainer, but the following is just an update to the schedule for after Fox's discussion period is over.
  • 4/30/2015 - 5/2/2015: :4jigglypuff:
  • 5/3/2015 - 5/5/2015: :4shulk:
  • 5/6/2015 - 5/8/2015: :4falco:
  • 5/9/2015 - 5/11/2015: :4greninja:
  • 5/12/2015 - 5/14/2015: :4sonic:
  • 5/15/2015 - 5/17/2015: :4miibrawl:
  • 5/18/2015 - 5/20/2015: :4miisword:
  • 5/21/2015 - 5/23/2015: :4miigun:
  • 5/24/2015 - 5/31/2015: Intermission Period
 

mario123007

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:4wiifit::4wiifitm:Wii Fit Trainer
  • Quick attacks but not large hitbox. Power is pretty standard.
  • Has projectile like ball and Sun salutaion.
  • Can quickly punish Rosalina when she does GP
:rosalina:Rosalina & Luma
  • Larger hitboxes
  • Luma can do an amazing edgeuard.
  • More better grabs compared to WFT.
Overall, Rosalina stands out a bit, I give 70:30 for this MU.
 

⑨ball

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It's 50:50 (40:60 customs), but it's a momentum based matchup so you'll notice that controlling the pace of the match is really jarring for both sides and will make you wonder how anyone could think this is even.

You can pretty much expect to play this without Luma for the most part as a large amount of WFT's moves put Luma into tumble or outright offstage. She also has a large amount of moves that hit both sides and aerials that will cross you up on shield or hit. She racks up damage quickly and has kill setups on Rosalina well below 100%, but has a very linear combo game and a subpar approach so don't commit too hard to anything and the match should be managable. Be careful recovering as she has three spikes and has no issues taking advantage of the 1-5 frame ledge invincibility with them or hula hoops for easy spikes on your hitboxesless recovery. She also has SS which has a pushbox on it that will hold Rosalina in place to be hit if she tries to UpB past her while charging. Between Luma as a meatshield and gravitational pull you shouldn't be worried too much about her trying to camp you, but autocanceling header makes landing a pain because you're a big target and gp can get punished hard here. Don't land on usmash and mash like crazy if you ever get jab grounded(which you shouldn't very often). The most important thing for Rosalina in winning this is pressing your advantages in range whenever you can and never letting her land--WFT has speed but relies on your over-commitment to get in and has nothing to challenge the disjoints on uair and utilt.

Customs are dumb for WFT and it shows here. On top of a multihit piercing projectile that heals her better eats and eats starbits, she also gets her biggest issue in range covered with weighted header which is active forever, autocancels, does great damage, lots of shield stun, and combos into pretty much anything she wants including usmash which will kill you rageless at around 60%. Then there's jumbo hoops which builds damage much easier, destroys shields, bops Luma, can place an active hitbox on the ledge preventing any low recoveries ever, and carry bad upBs or airdodges into the blastzone. It's rough, but not custom Villager rough so play with caution and it should still be winnable.
 

DisidisiD

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I find it quite hilarious that nearly EVERY SINGLE TIME people from another character board come here to give input, they always say something along the lines of "You can pretty much expect to play this without Luma as *input character's name here* can get rid of Luma with ease when compared to other fighters". Every time, they come and say that their character is superior in getting rid of luma or that we should expect luma to be gone mostly. It's as if every character is top tier in getting rid of luma (bad phrasing but I can't think of anything better to write at the moment). Just a little gripe I have about this thread. Thanks for reading :)

NOTE: I mean no ill will to those who say this. I just think that thoughts like these are a bit too rampant in this thread. I'm not trying to say that luma is hard to get rid of. Only that not every character is incredibly amazing in this aspect.
 
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9Tales

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^ lol I kind of agree with this

Relative to the whole cast WFT blows at getting rid of Luma. And while Luma is around she is terribly terribly disadvantaged in the neutral. I played WFT a lot early on (not so much recently though) and I've been playing a lot recently with a very strong WFT secondary. He's a big name local player here, and he's better than me. He whips me with other non-high tiers, and WFT can't touch Rosalina it's almost sad to watch replays. With basically 0 disjoint WFT's only reliable way to get in on Rosalina is trade with Luma a bunch of times, it's just a constant up hill battle.

Customs DEFINITELY benefit WFT more than Rosalina, like, for sure, WFT has a ton of great customs.

I am very certain this is a more slanted MU like 70:30 standard play maybe 60:40 customs on...
 
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MezzoMe

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Basically everyone says that this or that character can kill Luma in one blow if he is near the ledge, and to me that's something set in stone from Rosalina herself, it's not match-up dependent.
Immediately after comes the "she is tall and light so I can camp/hit from a short hop with things I normally can't".
Speaking of that, always remember that you have the crouch at your side for aerial sun salutations and aerial headers (unless angled down), same concept as using Nair's hitbox alterations to dodge frontal and low attack, now correct me if I'm wrong, those randomly placed hitboxes can hardly ever challange directly the Nair (SH Nair and Uair might hit her though), and that's before starting to talk about spacing.
 
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Macchiato

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It's 50:50 (40:60 customs), but it's a momentum based matchup so you'll notice that controlling the pace of the match is really jarring for both sides and will make you wonder how anyone could think this is even.

You can pretty much expect to play this without Luma for the most part as a large amount of WFT's moves put Luma into tumble or outright offstage. She also has a large amount of moves that hit both sides and aerials that will cross you up on shield or hit. She racks up damage quickly and has kill setups on Rosalina well below 100%, but has a very linear combo game and a subpar approach so don't commit too hard to anything and the match should be managable. Be careful recovering as she has three spikes and has no issues taking advantage of the 1-5 frame ledge invincibility with them or hula hoops for easy spikes on your hitboxesless recovery. She also has SS which has a pushbox on it that will hold Rosalina in place to be hit if she tries to UpB past her while charging. Between Luma as a meatshield and gravitational pull you shouldn't be worried too much about her trying to camp you, but autocanceling header makes landing a pain because you're a big target and gp can get punished hard here. Don't land on usmash and mash like crazy if you ever get jab grounded(which you shouldn't very often). The most important thing for Rosalina in winning this is pressing your advantages in range whenever you can and never letting her land--WFT has speed but relies on your over-commitment to get in and has nothing to challenge the disjoints on uair and utilt.

Customs are dumb for WFT and it shows here. On top of a multihit piercing projectile that heals her better eats and eats starbits, she also gets her biggest issue in range covered with weighted header which is active forever, autocancels, does great damage, lots of shield stun, and combos into pretty much anything she wants including usmash which will kill you rageless at around 60%. Then there's jumbo hoops which builds damage much easier, destroys shields, bops Luma, can place an active hitbox on the ledge preventing any low recoveries ever, and carry bad upBs or airdodges into the blastzone. It's rough, but not custom Villager rough so play with caution and it should still be winnable.
I completely agree with this.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Wii Fit Trainer's discussion period is now over, so I've added up all the ratio inputs to get an overall average.

:rosalina: [59:41 - 63:37] :4wiifit:

It seems that Rosalina has a decent advantage for this match-up.

Next up will be Rosalina's match-up against Fox McCloud.

 

icraq

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Learned this one from Dabuz, up throw into jab spin at 0%. Does close to 30%.

Rosalina's Dair wrecks Fox's UpB with good timing, but not Luma's. Luma's dair simply clashes with Fox's fire and won't actually hit him, but it will hit Luma. If the fox isn't bad I wouldn't recommend edge guarding off the stage, unless they're in a really bad position.

Tough MU vs a cunning Fox. I won't surmise a guess at #s but it's in Fox's favor.
 

tconan

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Fox pros:
-good at juggling
-can edgeguard Rosalina
-has the speed to break Rosalina's zoning
-up smash kills early because of Rosalina's light weight
Rosalina and Luma pros:
-jab jab into up tilt is a true combo at any percent, and Fox gets hit by the strong hit of up tilt
-can edgeguard Fox, potentially harder than how Fox edgeguards Rosalina
-disjointed hitboxes
-down b absorbs lasers (not too useful, but still helpful)
-Luma eats lasers
^ above 2 combined, lasers are basically useless in this matchup
-light weight=killed easily but also means she can get out of Fox's up tilt combos more quickly compared to other characters

Overall, I would say 55:45 Rosalina because a Rosalina that is good will not let Fox come back to the stage at all if he is forced to use side b (stuffed by d tilt) or up b (stuffed by dair), and the neutral is about even since Rosalina and Luma can zone Fox out because Fox cannot use lasers effectively, but Fox has the tools to get in on Rosa. It all depends on how good the Rosalina player is in the neutral since more than a few mistakes will cost her the match against a good Fox player.
 
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icraq

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Overall, I would say 55:45 Rosalina because a Rosalina that is good will not let Fox come back to the stage at all if he is forced to use side b (stuffed by d tilt)
are you certain dtilt goes low enough to hit a sweet spotted sideB? i dont believe it does.
 

mario123007

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Fox pros:
-good at juggling
-can edgeguard Rosalina
-has the speed to break Rosalina's zoning
-up smash kills early because of Rosalina's light weight
Rosalina and Luma pros:
-jab jab into up tilt is a true combo at any percent, and Fox gets hit by the strong hit of up tilt
-can edgeguard Fox, potentially harder than how Fox edgeguards Rosalina
-disjointed hitboxes
-down b absorbs lasers (not too useful, but still helpful)
-Luma eats lasers
^ above 2 combined, lasers are basically useless in this matchup
-light weight=killed easily but also means she can get out of Fox's up tilt combos more quickly compared to other characters

Overall, I would say 55:45 Rosalina because a Rosalina that is good will not let Fox come back to the stage at all if he is forced to use side b (stuffed by d tilt) or up b (stuffed by dair), and the neutral is about even since Rosalina and Luma can zone Fox out because Fox cannot use lasers effectively, but Fox has the tools to get in on Rosa. It all depends on how good the Rosalina player is in the neutral since more than a few mistakes will cost her the match against a good Fox player.
Nice analysis, let me make it more simple and in my view:
:4fox:Fox
  • Has a combo potential back air, good for juggling.
  • Edgeguard Rosalina easily with Dtilt
  • Fast speed can break Rosalina & Luma's zoning, he can knock Luma off with dash attack.
  • Can KO Rosalina easily with up Smash.
  • Blaster can give Rosalina damage pressure, and can also take down Luma by consistent blaster shooting.
:rosalina:Rosalina & Luma
  • Efficient jab and combos.
  • GP can absorb projectiles.
  • Large hitbox, better with Luma.
  • Can also edgeguard Fox with Luma.
  • Lightweight means need to beware of Fox up Smaah, but means can easily escape Fox jab and combo.
Same with you, I give 55:45 to this MU
are you certain dtilt goes low enough to hit a sweet spotted sideB? i dont believe it does.
A good Rosalina can just send Luma out and edgeguard Fox.
 

wildvine47

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Hello Rosalina boards, we're discussing post-patch Diddy vs. Rosa over on our boards. If you've got time, drop by and give us a hand, we'd appreciate it.
 
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tconan

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are you certain dtilt goes low enough to hit a sweet spotted sideB? i dont believe it does.
If timed and spaced right, Luma hits before Fox can snap the ledge. I'm also fairly certain that Rosalina and/or Luma can also go off stage and stuff Fox with a bair or dair.
 

M@v

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Really wish I had more exp vs Rosa, as she is a character I seem to have trouble with the most. I think I will decide on Fox in the MU, as I think Mario loses this MU badly, and my ZSS/Lucina don't get a lot of practice. I think its extremely difficult for Fox to get in or even start combos because of Luma, but the great equalizer here is Rosa's weight. Fox should be able to consistently kill her very early with Upsmashes and upairs, and even bairs.

So you know, Fox is bad at going off after people to edgeguard. Nair is his only real effective option, as other options either are not as effective, or too hard to predict with (Bair). The best way for Fox to edgeguard is to stay on stage by the ledge and knock you back off again. He does have extremely good options out of a ledge trump. Ledge Trump->Bair if you're too slow, Ledge Trump-> Dsmash for a likely kill if you go back for the ledge, especially if he predicts it and charges dsmash. If you go high, he either upairs/upsmashes you for a kill, or grabs/aerials for damage if you are not in kill range.

I haven't played the mu enough, but I wanna say 6:4 rosalina, potentially 55:45 rosalina
 

icraq

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If timed and spaced right, Luma hits before Fox can snap the ledge. I'm also fairly certain that Rosalina and/or Luma can also go off stage and stuff Fox with a bair or dair.
i did a little testing in a random FG match and you may be right, i still suspect fox can recover a little lower with his sideb but i was easily able to punish his sideb, even when it looked properly spaced
 

Parcheesy

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Really wish I had more exp vs Rosa, as she is a character I seem to have trouble with the most. I think I will decide on Fox in the MU, as I think Mario loses this MU badly, and my ZSS/Lucina don't get a lot of practice. I think its extremely difficult for Fox to get in or even start combos because of Luma, but the great equalizer here is Rosa's weight. Fox should be able to consistently kill her very early with Upsmashes and upairs, and even bairs.

So you know, Fox is bad at going off after people to edgeguard. Nair is his only real effective option, as other options either are not as effective, or too hard to predict with (Bair). The best way for Fox to edgeguard is to stay on stage by the ledge and knock you back off again. He does have extremely good options out of a ledge trump. Ledge Trump->Bair if you're too slow, Ledge Trump-> Dsmash for a likely kill if you go back for the ledge, especially if he predicts it and charges dsmash. If you go high, he either upairs/upsmashes you for a kill, or grabs/aerials for damage if you are not in kill range.

I haven't played the mu enough, but I wanna say 6:4 rosalina, potentially 55:45 rosalina
At the risk of being 'that guy that just uses the thread as a medium for finding matches', I could really use some more practice in this matchup. So if you're ever in the mood to practice the Rosalina matchup for a bit, let me know, and I'll make time.

That aside, no matchup against an opponent with a guaranteed kill option ( Jab - upsmash in this case ) can ever be that great for Rosalina. She does have better combo and tech chase options against the fast falling Fox, and can wall him out fairly effectively, but the threat of a rage up smash following a simple jab means he's always a few frames from swinging a losing game around. In my experience, Fox is fairly difficult to gimp offstage ( I'll look into the down tilt thing, but I'm pessimistic ) thanks to his side special. Once he's forced to use his firefox, it should be a lost stock, but getting him to that point is tough. As Mav said, Fox has really strong ledge pressure, and even has the potential to hit Rosa out of her Launch star with a well timed down smash.

I'm going to abstain from leaving a rating, because I haven't faced too many amazing Foxes, but it feels even, or slightly in Rosalina's favor.
 

DisidisiD

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Just a small input on how I handle edgeguarding fox: I usually dair when I see them side b as it knocks them right out of it with its lasting hitbox.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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At the risk of being 'that guy that just uses the thread as a medium for finding matches', I could really use some more practice in this matchup. So if you're ever in the mood to practice the Rosalina matchup for a bit, let me know, and I'll make time.

That aside, no matchup against an opponent with a guaranteed kill option ( Jab - upsmash in this case ) can ever be that great for Rosalina. She does have better combo and tech chase options against the fast falling Fox, and can wall him out fairly effectively, but the threat of a rage up smash following a simple jab means he's always a few frames from swinging a losing game around. In my experience, Fox is fairly difficult to gimp offstage ( I'll look into the down tilt thing, but I'm pessimistic ) thanks to his side special. Once he's forced to use his firefox, it should be a lost stock, but getting him to that point is tough. As Mav said, Fox has really strong ledge pressure, and even has the potential to hit Rosa out of her Launch star with a well timed down smash.

I'm going to abstain from leaving a rating, because I haven't faced too many amazing Foxes, but it feels even, or slightly in Rosalina's favor.
The dtilt thing is pretty legit and it helps rosalina a lot in the MU. Personally I think the MU is even. For all the reasons already stated.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I'd like to say that from this point forward, if you state that a match-up is even, I'll be putting you down as 50:50. We're getting closer to the end of round 1, so I want to at least include the users who think that a certain match-up is evenly matched, regardless of whether or not he/she makes a ratio input.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Fox's discussion period has come to a close, so here's the overall average that I've gotten after adding up all the ratio inputs, along with the users who said even.

:rosalina: [52.5:47.5 - 53:47] :4fox:

It seems that the match-up slightly favors Rosalina a little bit.

Next up, we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against the Balloon Pokemon, Jigglypuff.

 

ParanoidDrone

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I feel like Jigglypuff has a relatively easy time getting around Luma if we send it out, if only because Luma can't really cover the air unless we spam buttons to keep it in place.
 

tconan

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I think this mu is 65:35 in Rosalina's favor.
Jigglypuff pros:
-can edgeguard Rosalina
-great aerial mobility lets Jigglypuff ignore any grounded zoning by Luma such as jabs, making sending out Luma a poor option
Rosalina pros:
-disjointed hitboxes and long range limit a lot of Jigglypuff's options
-up smash and up air kill early, while most of Jigglypuff's reliable kill options are horizontal
-can edgeguard Jigglypuff, although Jigglypuff edgeguards Rosalina better
-ground=Rosalina's territory

Overall, Jigglypuff has a very, very hard time getting in on a good Rosalina and Luma. The only reason this matchup is not more in Rosalina's favor is because Jigglypuff has a decent chance of winning if she lands a gimp on Rosalina. I believe it all depends on the Rosalina player's ability to maintain stage control.
 

mario123007

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:4jigglypuff:Jigglypuff
  • Light weight like Rosalina, can KOed easily
  • Superior air game. Bad favor when at ground.
  • Edgeguard Rosalina easily.
  • Unpredictable instant down B KO. Trust me, a good Jigglypuff will know when to use this move.
:rosalina:Rosalina & Luma
  • Large hitbox attacks, but slower compare to Jigglypuff.
  • With Luma can do a juggle combo.
  • Can give Jigglypuff a lot of pressure and damage on ground.
  • Easily get launched by Jigglypuff's up smash.
Jigglypuff is really an annoying character to face with, I give 50:50
 

MezzoMe

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In the Jigglypuff boards it's agreed to be 60:40
Simply put:
  • Puff can edgeguard, cannot be edgeguarded or juggled
  • Puff can juggle with and only with leaping rest, since retreating Dair cannot be bypassed if used timely, but you'll lose space if you wiff it
  • Rosalina controls the stage too strongly with most of her moves and Jab, while giving little reward in the match-up, is as well unpunishable
  • Puff loses any chance of breaking through Rosalina's zone if she gets cornered near the ledge.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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In the Jigglypuff boards it's agreed to be 60:40
Simply put:
  • Puff can edgeguard, cannot be edgeguarded or juggled
  • Puff can juggle with and only with leaping rest, since retreating Dair cannot be bypassed if used timely, but you'll lose space if you wiff it
  • Rosalina controls the stage too strongly with most of her moves and Jab, while giving little reward in the match-up, is as well unpunishable
  • Puff loses any chance of breaking through Rosalina's zone if she gets cornered near the ledge.
Is this under Jiggypuff's perspective? I'm confused about if your ratio favors Jigglypuff or Rosalina.
 

Dee-SmashinBoss

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I would also like to point out that because jiggly always has to approach, while being completely outranges and powered, she has to always be careful, meaning for jigs, this is likely a patient MU.
I don't play Jiggs often, and my knowledge is from FG, don't tell me all the bad things about it I already know, but it's not completely useless.
I am may be accurate but whatever.

So Jiggs with her weight, low ranged attacks, awful ground game is something to take into consideration always.
Jigglypuff is possible to edge guard, but it's difficult, luckily pound is almost useless for helping with recovery.

I would imagine she may have a tougher time killing Luma, unless she can just weave in and out in the air w/o getting punished.
Her air speed is clearly superior, but her ariels?...............well Rosas have some weird hitboxes for days, disjointed as heck, fast too -.- but jigglypuffs clearly string better(in a way) I can't remember what all of Rosas ariels look like(Mainly her Fair)

The way jiggly approaches can get predictable because it's likely to only be in the air, but some ppl consider multiple jump characters to be a pain to hit and read because of how easily they can fake you out.....hehe Kirby :4kirby:.

But yea mostly jiggly needs to find ways to get in and punish and be extremely patient.
So I think it's overall 60:40 Rosas favor, it MIGHT be possible 65:35 but that would be in the long run when the game is more in developed? Or however you say it.
 

LightningLuxray

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Is this under Jiggypuff's perspective? I'm confused about if your ratio favors Jigglypuff or Rosalina.
He's saying on the Jiggs boards, it's 60:40 in Rosalina's favor.

I'd honestly probably raise it up to 65:35. Rosalina can just dominate the stage in a way that makes it difficult for Jigglypuff to get it. Rosa has tilts, jab, and great aerials to make Jiggs approach hell. The only reason this isn't a lot easier for Rosa (like people brought up before) it because of how easily Jiggs can gimp Rosa's recovery, but even this is limited because of Rosalina's aerials, her Up B angle, and the fact that Jiggs kinda struggles to get Rosa off the stage in the first place. Rosalina also has a pretty easy time killing with Up Smash and Up Air.

Overall it's a total uphill battle for Jiggs. She needs to keep Rosa near the edge of the stage, and once she's offstage, Jiggs needs to get the gimp. Either that or find a way to land a Rest, but that isn't too reliable...
 

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Howdy RosaLuma mains! The doggy forums are talking about the MU, and would much appreciate the input from you guys as well!

Click this picture of Luma to go to the thread!
 

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Here from the Puff Boards to speak on the behalf of our bubblegum overlords.

JIGGLYPUFF ADVANTAGES:
Rosalina is tall, floaty, and light, which means she's subsceptible to our rest setups. Chances are that if we land a SHFF'd Uair at 35%ish or higher, she's toast. I could see her being vulnerable to juggles as well, although her Dair is pretty good so I doubt it works in practice.

I'd say that as far as aerials go they're pretty close- Rosalina has slightly better disjoint on hers, and the frame data seems about similar. Of course, its worse if we can land the hit, depending on the scenario and the aerial we used (Beware the Bair.) What Nair lack in range it makes up for in speed, so if we're close enough it can beat out Rosie's aerials before the hitboxes even come out.

Jigglypuff also has quite a few ways in which she can deal with Luma. A common tactic for Puff players to use is the Retreating Fair, because it's a quick poke that's safe on shield; Against Rosie, it's easily abusable to chip away at Luma. Retreating Dair is riskier, but if you can get all the hits in it does 14%. Pound in particular straight-up murders Luma. 11% AND it sends the poor little guy flying! It's also yet another move that's safe on shield if used correctly. If those don't work, Jigglypuff can easily just float over Luma's pointy head. Good luck Landing Luma Shot on us, at least on the ground.

Launch Star is pretty much edgeguard food for us, due to the lack of a hitbox and its semi-limited trajectory. If you go low, we can land a Bair and finish the job we started. Recovering high is a decent idea, because the momentum of the move after you've already started the helpless state propels you right past us. Of course, if we can predict that we'll just follow you for a free rest. Rosie's best bet is to just mix up her recovery as well as she can, because otherwise she's almost completely helpless to Jigglypuff. Star Bits are a nice spray to try and keep us away if we come in recklessly, but chances are no puff is going to extend that far offstage in this matchup. After all, you have to come back eventually... If Rosie has some other recovery tricks, please let me know so I can go over the .

ROSALINA ADVANTAGES:

Rosalina in my experience has a lot of tools for juggling, and Jigglypuff doesn't really have an answer when she's being juggled. Puffs should be wary when they're in the air, lest they stay there longer than they intended.

Although we have ways of clearing out Luma, when he's alive and kicking he's a verifiable powerhouse. His smash attacks are much scarier than Rosalina's, he can get at us from far away with Luma Shot, and Star Bits are frankly just annoying. Mark my words, Jiggs will be gunning for Luma. Keep this in mind and take advantage of the opportunities it presents.

Rosalina might be easy for us to break offstage, but when it's reversed she's no slouch herself. Dair is very, very bad for us, as are the majority of her aerials. Dair and Uair can outrange our Uair and Dair, respectively. Star Bits aren't super useful here but can eat one of our jumps and stop our momentum. The fact that we rely almost entirely on jumps makes it pivotal that we do NOT get hit by any of these. However, we still have the option to dodge, so.....yeah.

Onstage, Jigglypuff struggles with range and approaching. However, Rosalina herself doesn't have much outside of Luma's effective range, and Luma himself has zero disjoint whatsoever. Jigglypuff shouldn't have too much issue with getting in when the two are separated, and if they're together Jiggs can just abuse Retreating Fair.

Rosie of course beats Jigglypuff on the ground. This is something that Puff is used to, so don't expect to get much use out of it. However, it's worth noting that she may occasionally go in for a grab, as our grab game is....bizarrely decent this time around. Not too much of an issue, considering Luma's ability to absolutely wreck grabs.

Additional notes:
-Knowing Jigglypuff's basic attributes, dthrow to fair is unlikely to work very reliably. I could be wrong on this, but otherwise assume the worst. Since Jiggs is generally hard to grab anyways, don't expect it to be particularly useful.
-It's generally accepted in the Puff Boards that dash attack is the most underrated broken move ever. Look out for it, as it comes out pretty fast and can kill if it hits clean.
-Utilt is an alternative kill move at high percents, as is Uthrow in extreme conditions (requires high percent, rage, and platform placement)
-Our crouch is one of the lowest in the game. It shouldn't be an issue with Luma around, but it's dangerous to go alone. Take this!

Overall it's close, but I'd say that we just have an easier time getting kills on Rosalina. We can edgeguard her more easily, and our rest setups work like a charm in this matchup. We can also clear out Rosalina's greatest asset, Luma, with relative ease. However, if Rosie can play it right she can keep us from getting in to attack.

55:45 Puff doesn't seem too far off to me, maybe a little less or even a straight 50:50.
 
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MezzoMe

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If Rosie has some other recovery tricks, please let me know so I can go over the .
The most used is sharking

Onstage, Jigglypuff struggles with range and approaching. However, Rosalina herself doesn't have much outside of Luma's effective range, and Luma himself has zero disjoint whatsoever. Jigglypuff shouldn't have too much issue with getting in when the two are separated, and if they're together Jiggs can just abuse Retreating Fair.
It's actually more about hurtbox alterations other than sheer range that Rosalina's specing relies on, something that severely hampers the ability of characters to abuse of her height.
Also I am yet to be convinced that Rosalina can juggle or edgeguard Jigglypuff, but I'm pretty sure that she can't react to Star Bits, viceversa Star Bits can be used on reaction against air dodges.
 

Codaption

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The most used is sharking


It's actually more about hurtbox alterations other than sheer range that Rosalina's specing relies on, something that severely hampers the ability of characters to abuse of her height.
Also I am yet to be convinced that Rosalina can juggle or edgeguard Jigglypuff, but I'm pretty sure that she can't react to Star Bits, viceversa Star Bits can be used on reaction against air dodges.
Star Bits in general are just annoying to us. And to think I once downplayed their utility....

What makes you say that Rosalina can't juggle us, though? I'm really surprised to hear that, honestly.
 
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MezzoMe

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Star Bits in general are just annoying to us. And to think I once downplayed their utility....

What makes you say that Rosalina can't juggle us, though? I'm really surprised to hear that, honestly.
Air speed makes her able to manouver in the air wich allows her to get out of the range of saturnian rings, not that much because of sheer jump strenght/air speed (though Rosalina's air speed is slighty below avarage, can't really tell for jump strenght) or for the start-up of the move but rather for the horizontal range it covers, especially if she goes in against Rosalina, since Luma nearly always covers the front, unless RAR is used.
 

Codaption

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Air speed makes her able to manouver in the air wich allows her to get out of the range of saturnian rings, not that much because of sheer jump strenght/air speed (though Rosalina's air speed is slighty below avarage, can't really tell for jump strenght) or for the start-up of the move but rather for the horizontal range it covers, especially if she goes in against Rosalina, since Luma nearly always covers the front, unless RAR is used.
I can't see us being able to beat Uair with anything we have, but if the range is that poor I suppose we could just dodge through it. Our fast fall isn't much to look at, though, so it's a bit iffy.
 

DisidisiD

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Air speed makes her able to manouver in the air wich allows her to get out of the range of saturnian rings, not that much because of sheer jump strenght/air speed (though Rosalina's air speed is slighty below avarage, can't really tell for jump strenght) or for the start-up of the move but rather for the horizontal range it covers, especially if she goes in against Rosalina, since Luma nearly always covers the front, unless RAR is used.
I'd just like to say, to the RAR point, that Luma is still "infront" of us, aka where rosas back is afterwards. It's quite useful in extending the range of our Bair.
 

Douchuumen

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So I'm an outsider just looking for matchup information and I stumbled on you MU table. I have two questions.

Why do you think Rosalina hard-counters so many characters, and for the characters you have at a ratio of 65:35 or higher, did you actually get the opinion of any users from that character's boards? As I said, I came here for information but I have a hard time believing some of these.

I mean, come on, you have Ness over 65:35. Really?
 
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Jiggly

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I see puff vs rosa as a 50:50 matchup personally. Rosa's recovery is easy to intercept, and with no hitbox, a sweet spot nair is an easy kill offstage at 80%. Luma seems to have issues with puff due to the mobility puff maintains in the air. To keep up, you are forced to keep rosa open, which no smart rosa will do. Puff's big redeeming factor in this MU is pound. Pound launches luma straight up for an easy sweetspot fair followup for a luma kill. Also, rosa has issues with grab combos and triple luma jab combos due to weight. Rosa is also easy to rest combo, so that's no fun for Rosa.
This MU will be about learning to use so-ro effectively, which is definitely possible in this MU. Uair is amazing against puff, and she can't do shizz to it. Rosa is really good at spacing jiggs in the air. She can push Jiggs out in her home turf, which is great for Rosa.

I see this as 50:50 as Jiggs has a lot of potential, but a smart Rosa can space her out. It's all about using all your options as a single rosa, and playing defensive when you have a luma for the time span you can maintain it.

At least, that's how the rosa MU always goes for me :)
 
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